Forum Post: If you think about it, most people work for a rich person or company. No poor person has ever signed my paycheck
Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 16, 2011, 5:09 p.m. EST by Greentara
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And the govt is richest of all, revenues of $2.5T, dwarfing Exxxon 470b in revenues
Poor ppl buy stuff and pay taxes, stimulating the economy in the process. Due to this fact, companies and government do go out of business. So yes, poor people do sign your check as you do theirs.
Flaming you are sadly mistaken. The bottom 47% of the income distribution do not pay Federal Income tax. The poor would be included in that 47%. The top 1% pay 40% of all taxes paid. The poor (the bottom 10%) spend $8,300 per consumer unit, CU. The other 90% spend $40,000 per CU. There are 7.5mm poor CUs versus 67.8mm CUs in the other 90%. The poor's spending and tax payment are not driving income growth in this country. That is the problem with this movement, it is all emotion and no fact. The whole bitch with Wall Street is uninformed. The bank bailout didn't cost the tax payers a dime. In fact as of August, it has made the tax payers $11bn. While we are on the subject, Wall Street borrowed its own money. The Gov't gave banks $245bn in 2008. The top 1% paid $392bn in taxes or 40% of all taxes paid. So if any segment of the tax paying base has a right to comment, it was the group that has paid by far the most taxes. The 47% that didn't pay any tax clearly don't have any right to complain.
Burn the poor.
The top 1% also hoarded more than 40% of the income and a huge percentage of total wealth. Do the math.
http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/jmadison/28292/the-47-myth-just-who-pays-income-tax-anyway
jjwiii - No, some in the 47% who don't pay taxes are the rich, taking advantage of loopholes. Others in the 47% not paying taxes are unemployed, having been put out of work by the rich importing cheap foreign labor to replace us and get richer. The rich pay 50% of their historical tax rate when the economy was working: The Truth About the Economy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTzMqm2TwgE Having served in the administrations of three presidents, economist Robert Reich describes ways the economy is functioning differently now, at a level of simplicity even a dumbass can follow.
I pretty sure
my company lost money via work efficiency when I quit
You're putting the cart before the horse Poor people only get money from rich people Who either hire them or they get handouts from the government, who gets over half it's money from the richest 10%
Rich people take the money from the poor people you idiot. The system is rigged. You are a dupe.
OF COURSE THEY DO! How else do poor people get a job? Usually work for someone rich And plenty of poor people get rich
I'm not a socialist, however few economists dismiss Marx's most basic premises. The first and most fundamental being that wealth is derived from labor.
Wealth is also derived from capital
Oh okay, then. Let's just let the total serfdom begin. You've convinced me, they deserve to rule over us.
If money is important to you Get education in a field that pays Earn money Live your life and be happy If money is not important then why OWS?
You don't know why, you will never understand why, because you are unenlightened and unsophisticated, you do not have original thoughts but are rather spoonfed your "opinions," what I'd like to know is what you do for a living?
I understand some of the OWS points and agree with some of them Unfortunately most views are seriously flawed I grew up relatively poor, got an education, worked for large and small companies and now have my own business What do youbdo for a living?
You didn't answer my question, what do you actually do?
Write
What does this have to do with what I said. Ok, grant you what I said was snark, but where are you going with this "They sign your checks without them you'd be nothing"? What I posted is your statements carried out to a logical conclusion.
By the way I have an education and I have numerous marketable skills which I've used to start my own business. I am right now a one-person "freelancer". I don't deal with many "rich" people and I don't do work for multi-national corporations. My small business & individual customer base has shrunk since the credit crunch of 2008. I am still making it I am relatively comfortable but if MY customers go under that means I do too. Of course I am concerned. And if am able to grow, I'll be able to hire one or two people, but as it stands now- it is going to be a slow road.
You make it sound like we all exist in some vacuum where stuff that goes on around us or stuff that happens to other people doesn't matter. It does matter. We are supposed to participate in our government, not be isolated drones that punch a clock and then drug themselves out with entertainment, booze, drugs and sex.
Well look your clients are not rich therefore you struggle a bit Nothing wrong with that Now there are many things wrong with govt, but that's another thread
I can't reply to the union comment down there (I guess we're too deeply threaded) so I will post it here.
Reasonable people would say that BOTH the unions and corporate lobbyists have too much say.
But Fox News addicts and hardcore rightwingers and people who think the megarich deserve worship - only ever point out what unions do, and don't talk about the whole picture.
So, I can see clearly which category you are in.
Yeah. the citizen's united decision that many oppose gave "human" free speech rights to any group that wants to get together and sway an election - unions, special interests AND corporations.
Yea, and one of the things that are wrong is that rich people are buying themselves too much power.
One person, one vote. Period.
Very true. Unions spend huge to get someone elected who will get them higher paychecks. Many industries get laws passed by congress in their favor (look at the increased profits from HMO's before the health care bill has even been implemented) and the list goes on and on
just because some1 signs ur check doesnt mean u let them take a shit on you. Unless you are in2 that sort of thing.
What precisely did/does the person who paid you for a job do? Suchnlanguage is vague, imprecise and maybe a sign of your overall intelligence
that's because they corrupted the system such that all of the money runs into their pocket.
If you worked for me a poor person would have signed your check but I am rapidly on my way to becoming rich. I bet then you will be talking shit on me because I have wealth. but Ill tell you what Ill give you the secret to being rich free of charge. First work your whole life from mowing lawns and doing yard word at 7 to selling candy on the school bus at 10. Keep workin , no it doesnt stop, absorbing everything you can along the way about how your employer runs their business note things you like or dislike. Save money the whole time, dont seek material rewards for status like designer clothes or rims, live simply. Then when you've saved enough money from all your hard work you can spend hours researching to make sure the business you intend to start is a wise choice. Read, educate yourself, work and repeat. Then go start your business work over 80+hours a week and continue for the first couple of years then streamline the process start hiring people to help and keep growing. All the while staying financial responsible. Sound fun then give it a crack and best of luck too you or shut up realize you dont have the ambition to do so take a modestly paying job live with in your means and have fun. Nothing wrong with either but dont cut down those who have played roulette with their lives and financial future and came out a winner.
Nobody cares if you are rich, just don't buy politicians to become richer by stealing from rest of us or by passing the tax burden further down the scale (as Cain wants to do). Go be rich, don't buy lobbyists, join our effort to get rid of all lobbyists and money in politics.
And when you think even harder, you realize most rich persons don't personally plant seeds and harvest food. Or build bridges. Or design gadgets.
Eventually though, you realize such hard thinking is kinda obvious, and does not really lead anywhere.
Not true at all Many rich people create Some just make money Where do you put the 1% kardashians? What about Michael Vick?
That was mostly in jest, as I thought the last line indicated.
I was just saying that pretending wealth depends exclusively on that group or other is silly. No one accomplishes anything of significance alone. We should applaud and reward leaders and innovators, sure, but neither the system nor they should forget they had help.
And really, most of the rich folk that are not just playing with money usually do acknowledge their debts, whether that be "standing on the shoulders of giants" or the hard work of their team (as, for example, Jobs often said.)
Very true were all interconnected And some greed bankstirs and corrupt politicians need to get the message
That is so strange because no rich person has ever worked beside me
Have you worked for a rich person or company or govt?
If you think about it, most slaves worked for rich people. No slave ever gave shelter and food to another slave family. Thank goodness for the plantation owners.
Ha if you think working for a living is slavery Then you are uninformed, ignorant or even worse bigoted You (and I) have no concept of slavery
The 99% are a continuation of legalized slavery. Our chains are just invisible now, in the form of debt. We work for a barely living. What, you think a capitalist wouldn't LOVE a labor cost of $0 if the government would allow it? Lol.
Well it's your CHOICE to borrow If you don't borrow you have no debt And please define barely living? You obviously have computer and Internet
Is it my choice to have a chronic illness? Get into a car accident? Be born to a single mother? Have sick family to take care of? Have a child with a birth defect? Of course it isn't. None of those things are chosen. Life happens, accident of birth is just that.
And no. It isn't always a choice to borrow. Sometimes it is a matter of life or death. Other times, it is a matter of all of society, the government, the private sector, the public sector, and everyone in between telling you that to borrow and learn is your best investment. Or should just rich people or those who can pay cash at 17 (or be lucky enough to have parents) go to University?
You're one of the 99% who hasn't seen her chains yet. This fight is for you as well. It's ok if you spit in their faces and hate them. Or crucify them. :)
rich people can also get chronic illnesses or get into car accidents and so on.
they're human too, you know
Are you implying a wealthy person with access to medical care, medication, and who can afford time to rest struggles the same way a poor person without health insurance does when suffering the same medical condition?
I'm not talking about what they feel and don't feel, I'm talking about the struggle - financial - they go through, and access to MEDICAL ATTENTION. Are you implying those things are equal for both sets of people?
yes.
they feel pain, they can suffer, they can live and they can die. don't they?
unless they are... ROBOTS TAKING OVER THE WORLD??!??!
So you are feeling sorry for yourself Plenty of people overcome adversity And many do not you have no idea as to my background, beliefs or financial status, so dont jump to conclusions to make your self feel better
People in every country overcome adversity, whether the country is a monarchy, a theocracy, a communist one or a capitalist one. It is what they must go through just to survive that tests the civility and sustainability of the society. We're at par right now with central African states and Bangladesh, who also must invent ways to bring in income and work 60-70 hours a week just to "survive". For shame.
Well there is no "law" or rule or any promise or reason why people have to struggle to survive. And unless youve traveled in central Africa (I have) there is NO COMPARISON
I saw someone who was begging at an off ramp today on a cell phone. Get a job you damn hippy.
"Most of the Occupy Wall Street protesters aren’t opposed to free market capitalism. In fact, what they want is an end to the crony capitalist system now in place, that makes it easier for the rich and powerful to get even more rich and powerful while making it increasingly hard for the rest of us to get by." "Maybe it’s hard to see your best interests reflected in a sometimes rag-tag, inarticulate, imperfect group of protesters. But make no mistake about it: While horrendous inequality is not an American tradition, protest is.And if you’re part of the 99% of underpaid or unemployed Americans crushed in the current economy, the Occupy Wall Street protests are your best chance at fixing the broken economy that is breaking your back." Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/10/14/understanding-occupy-wall-street/#ixzz1aypZ5fXz
what do you think about The Federal Reserve's 80 billion net profit that it kept in 2010 during this financial mess?
Fed sends it's profits to the Dept of Treasury Read the bylaws
Yes, but they are able to keep 6% aka 80 Billion in 2010 -- Who but The Federal Reserve Banks gets 6% mandated by law in this economy.
The 1% don't create most of the new jobs, which come from companies with 50 or fewer employees. The middle class folks who build and expand small enterprises are the real job creators.
One of the things holding our economy back is that people who want to form a business need enough put by to make it through that first year, and the stagnant wages of recent times have made that much, much tougher.
i'm pretty sure citi hires 300,000 people, many of them in the US
New jobs - as I said - new jobs come mainly from companies with 50 or fewer employees.
We need policies that are friendly to that sort of business creation, not designed for the multi-nationals alone.
All we want is fair pay instead of the hoarding of all the wealth.
You need to provide value to someone to get themmto pay you AND they must make more money from your work than you get paid in order for you to have a job. That is math my friend
You are an idiot.
You seem incompetent and mis informed Do you have a job? Or inheritance?
You are an idiot.
the boss never showed me the books
Did you ask?
yes
Well good for him If you were not getting paid enough Ask for a raise ornchange jobs Maybe you over value your work Maybe you do not understand the full costs to hire an employee (it's around 50% more than the stated salary the average person makes...if you wonder why...,try starting a business)
I was the most efficient machine
as only a human body and mind can be
in sorting and soaking
and keeping the kitchen clean
never stopped moving
riding momentum
Mostly true. I own my own company and I'm poor but thank God for my employees who keep me in business and help keep a roof over my head.
Good for you And I hope your employees thank you for drumming up business in order to meet payroll
I love this argument out of ignorance. Consumers create and economy which creates rich people. Rich people create nothing. Not jobs, not the economy, not products, nothing , nada. Consumers create all this. Their had to be people to give someone money for something before that person could get rich.
You are misinformed Jobs was rich and created jobs worldwide (pun intended) Rich people hire more people than you've hired I bet
I agree with both of you. Consumers do drive the economy with their choices for sure. That's why I don't shop at Walmart. But, I believe the problem is that the value of our earned dollar is so small relative to years ago because we are being forced to purchase and re-purchase the same cheap, disposable, poor quality goods and services rendering us as slaves to corporations. Our choices are very limited in what we can purchase and afford and even the most expensive' higher quality' items are junk. In other words, the world market thrives on quantity, not quality. Years ago you could buy a TV that would last you 20 years or more but the greedy CEO's don't want to wait that long to sell you another one. Health insurance dictates what type of medical care you receive and thanks to the patriot act, your doctors and your pet's doctor will tailor your treatment around your credit score, property values in your neighborhood and your income and education. That's not even ethical medicine. There are too many injustices influenced by greed today that basically make it very difficult for anyone to climb the ladder of success. What we put into the world is disproportional to what get back from it relating to personal success. Most of the super wealthy got there by luck and personal associations and will openly admit that. I'm not saying that they didn't work long hours. Steve Jobs just got lucky because he was able to go to market with his product before someone else did.
Do they not teach economics in school anymore?
Consumers create demand. Production goes up to meet demand( or price goes up). More jobs are created to create more goods to fill the demand created by consumers. Consumers create jobs not rich people. They just profit off the system. Rich people are effectively leeches off of an economic system.
Who finances the productive capacity to meet this demand? In other words if you're neightborhood needs a cafe who puts up the money to start the business?
I financed my own business out of pocket. The problem with people that use this argument of "rich people do it all" is that they only look back to yesterday. Instead of back to when it all began. You had to have consumers before you had rich people.
A few people started trading lets say meat for berries and nuts. Then that meat trader started trading meats berries and nuts to someone else who gathered wood for fires. He teaches his son to hunt. His son trades meat for berries and wood. The trader then trades the meat for more berries and wood. Each trade he keeps a little bit for himself so he does not have to gather wood or berries or hunt all he does is trade.
So on and so forth.... And now you have trader joe. Who trades goods in his store/home for other goods to trade to others all while skimming some off the top for his own "pay". Fast forwards several thousand years and tada you have rich people and consumers.
Of course the rich don't do it all We are all interdependent and rely on the health of the earth to survive (hence green Tara) But there has never been any going back to some Rousseau noble savage condition (as it never existed.....the strong tribe would kill the berry gatherers and take their food and inhabit their berry fields)
Obviously, it doesnt matter how many flaws someone points out in your argument you MUST be right.
Who said anything about tribes? Who said they would of killed each other? Was you there? Did you see it happen? Know someone that was? Evidence that this was always the way things happened?
See all assumptions. Just like your original argument. All assumptions out of ignorance. No matter how many times your arguments are refuted, you will just come up with new assumptions out of ignorance and trying to play them off as facts.
It is a pointless debate.
Wow You are lost in some idealized world Rawanda? Congo? "skimming"? Ayone who buys and sells wants to make then most they can Trading anything is risky Do you even work? Have you ever held a job much less tried to start a business?
Both consumers AND investors create jobs. It takes an investment to start a business. That investment may lose money or may make money, but it will create jobs. Those jobs may be short lived, or if the consumers like the product may be longer lasting.
Yes investors create jobs like no tomorrow. Look at all the investing on wall street. Wow look at all those jobs that are being created.
The right investments do create a very very few jobs. But only a very few. A majority of jobs are created by consumers.
The right investments and the right amount of hard work can create much wealth. Without investment you may have some jobs, but you wouldn't have growth in wealth. Even poor people today have access to technology, health care, and food choices that Kings and Queens couldn't even dream of 100 years ago. I'm not saying the consumer is not important, but you can't discount the contribution of the investor.
investments are not needed in an economy. consumers are.