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Forum Post: If the police won't listen, let's talk to the military

Posted 8 years ago on Nov. 22, 2011, 9 p.m. EST by fabianmockian (225)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Watching the outrageous brutal actions of those police department that are attacking the citizens who not only pay their salaries, but whom the police have sworn to serve and protect, I thought has occurred to me: If the police are not willing to listen to reason and cease their violent responses to peaceful protests, maybe Occupy Wall Street should consider appealing to those brave souls who took oaths to serve and protect this nation, the people who inhabit it and the way of life that 1% of our population has been destroying for decades. In the next 5 years, a total of 50,000 of these service men and women will be laid off and put into the pool of unemployment that already plagues this nation. Before this happens, OWS should began a campaign of reaching out to everyone here who has a husband, wife, brother, sister, father or mother who is currently serving, at home or abroad, because they too are part of the 99%. Hopefully, they have not been indoctrinated with the same hatred for Americans that the police in some states seem to have adopted. Hopefully, the truth of our shared plight can be conveyed to them before they are ordered to turn their weapons on peaceful protests that seek justice from system that seems almost beyond repair. In the past, servicemen have questioned the marching orders of their leaders. A great example of this is a documentary called "Sir, No Sir", which details how the soldiers themselves started to rebel against the orders they were receiving in relation to the Vietnam war. It will be this type of free will that Americans will rely upon when the 1% realize that the police cannot contain and squash the Occupy Movements that are occurring across the country and will continue to occur and grow as more people become disillusioned with a government that is beholden to and under the control so few. Do not underestimate the 1%, who have shown that they are willing to attack their own countrymen in order to maintain their tyrannical grip. I, for one would prefer a situation similar to the original uprisings in Egypt over the situation the citizens of Syria are facing today.

28 Comments

28 Comments


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[-] 1 points by ronimacarroni (1089) 8 years ago

They don't need us for them to fight for what they were promised.

They will.

[-] 1 points by leftwingisrightwing (15) 8 years ago

there is a group in the military and police that has sworn an oath not to follow illegal orders that go against the people. this is the group you want, they would not fire on the people if asked.

oathkeepers.org

hopefully the moderators have not expanded their anti American censorship to include this URL yet. All speech is protected people, not just some speech.

[-] 1 points by BrainC (400) from Austin, TX 8 years ago
[-] 1 points by fabianmockian (225) 8 years ago

Yeah, i saw that one. thanks for that.

[-] 1 points by dealdoctor (148) 8 years ago

" I was just following orders." was not allowed as a defense at the Nuremberg trials after WWII. Our police need to say, " Sir,No Sir." to orders to attach peaceful protesters and then sue the City for denial of their civil rights as American citizens. At some point in every revolution both the police and the Army must begin to side with the just cause of the citizens of the nation that resist an unjust government. They are the force that enforces either justice or injustice. They also are the 99% and need to be educated to that fact.

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[-] 0 points by MVSN (768) from Stockton, CA 8 years ago

Are you really serious?

[-] 0 points by dealdoctor (148) 8 years ago

I simply ask you to watch this free documentary " Sir, No Sir" and ask yourself if that is the right thing to say at a certain point when someone under authority has enough information. Either authority is your truth or truth is your authority. . Only you can make the decision. I feel sure sure we might be different ages http://tinyurl.com/58548w

[-] 1 points by kickstart (12) 8 years ago

i think that we need a deffinition of what is public and private....if i pay taxes (and i do) on schools, roads, parks, and courthouses that entitles me to voice my opinion in any of those areas. Just like it does for anyone else who lives in this country. WITHOUT THREAT! Untill we as a people quit trying to DEFINE what this movement is and just move forward this will go no where.....21st century revolution.....

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[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 8 years ago

Let me state my point. MAYBE. But you come into my school or my classroom when the students are present and start yelling away, I will simply say, "excuse me boys and girls" and you and your rights will be taken outside and your rights will be punched out. (PUN intended)

[-] 1 points by kickstart (12) 8 years ago

once again another person taking this as a threat and creating a threat. i will tell you what as you sit behind you computer acting tough because in your world you think that this is about violence. the only people promoting violence is the police and other officials that do not know how to deal with people voicing their 1st amendment rights, and as it is ronjj i am an MMA fighter so if you think for a moment that you or anyone else is even going to get close enough to PUNCH OUT MY RIGHTS i will buy you a plane ticket and you can come and find out how well that will work...

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 8 years ago

Threats with threats with threats. SO WHAT is your point?? You posted the first threat. "if i pay taxes .. on schools .. that entitles me" to do what I damn well please. Being an MMA fighter passing out threats is why we have police - Get a life kickfart.

[-] 2 points by kickstart (12) 8 years ago

voicing an opinion is a first amendment right, not a threat....

[-] 1 points by kickstart (12) 8 years ago

to reply your the one who is threating to take me outside and punch out my rights, i am just reacting to your statement, and yes being a tax paying voting citizen in america entitles me to those rights, also so you understand we (my fighting den) trains the local police, so if your willing you can come down in a controlled enviroment and find out how well you can punch my rights out tough guy...

[-] 0 points by HarryPairatestes2 (380) from Barrow, AK 8 years ago

Unfortunately for you, your belief is not supported by the Supreme Court of the U.S. You are not entitled to do what you want whenever you want at places that are funded by tax dollars. If you think the Court decisions are wrong, file suit and take it up with them.

[-] 2 points by groovyjoker (39) 8 years ago

I agree, but let's remember the police are not entitled to do whatever they want, either.

Ray Jurado, former federal prosecutor, states (italics added): "“Harm to the public service” distinguishes between officers and civilians and establishes a higher standard for police officers. It affirms that because integrity is indispensable to the position of police officer, one whose misconduct undermines that integrity no longer deserves the public’s trust."

Okay, what are the standards for determining if a police officer's actions have "harmed a public service" - Ray states that: "Harm to the public service is defined as misconduct committed by a public servant that is likely “to have a deleterious effect upon public service,” or that is likely to cause “impairment or disruption of public service.”

However, he says the standards are not consistently applied. One ruling by a court found that public service had been harmed when an officer tipped over an inmate's bed, causing him to fall to the floor and get a bloody nose. The officer then lied on the report, stating the inmate fell to the floor all by himself. Now, if this is the standard the Court found - do you think the public service has been harmed in any of the Occupy incidents, namely Seattle (tear gassing the elderly), Oakland (hitting a person until their spleen explodes) or UC Davis (pepper spraying kids on their own campus)?

For more information, read Ray Jurado's article on "Do No Harm". Ray is a former federal prosecutor who oversees police misconduct internal investigations in the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department. His article was published in the Los Angeles Lawyer July-August 2005. Here is a link: http://laoir.com/HarmtothePublicServiceLAL.pdf

[-] -1 points by HarryPairatestes2 (380) from Barrow, AK 8 years ago

What does your post have to do with your claim that "if i pay taxes (and i do) on schools, roads, parks, and courthouses that entitles me to voice my opinion in any of those areas. Just like it does for anyone else who lives in this country. WITHOUT THREAT!"

Replying that the police are not entitled to do what they want doesn't defend your position. Plus, the police have to have more authority to stop criminal acts. Police and citizens are not on equal ground when push comes to shove.

edit: Oops, realized you are not the original poster of the quote.

[-] 2 points by groovyjoker (39) 8 years ago

Hey Harry...my only point was the to provide a value added post about how the police do not have ultimate authority, their conduct is held at a higher standard, and to provide a link with more information. I agree, police and citizens are not on equal ground. Police, as public servants and beholden to the public trust, are held to a higher standard.

[-] 1 points by kickstart (12) 8 years ago

we are protected by the constitution of the united states of america and i quote "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. "

[-] 0 points by HarryPairatestes2 (380) from Barrow, AK 8 years ago

But that has been interpreted by the Supreme Court in numerous cases that restrict time, location, and methods of protest. Read them.

[-] 1 points by kickstart (12) 8 years ago

i believe like many people do that laws change almost on a daily basis, but the idea that people come together peacefully is one the is not questionable. Violence on behalf of the law enforcement to non violent protesters is without reason, they have a code of conduct that they have to adhear to that is at a higher standard than a regular person on the street. I look forward to this thread, but as part of the 99% i am on my way to work....

[-] -1 points by ronjj (-241) 8 years ago

BS ........................... your head just gets bigger and bigger.

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[-] 0 points by KahnII (170) 8 years ago

You get no military support supporting Marxism.

[-] 1 points by fabianmockian (225) 8 years ago

Please explain Marxism and how OWS is Marxist?

[-] 0 points by KahnII (170) 8 years ago

Not everyone, just a large chunk of them.

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[-] -1 points by MVSN (768) from Stockton, CA 8 years ago

You won't get many of them to join you. To them YOU are the people that hate Americans.

[-] 2 points by fabianmockian (225) 8 years ago

that is why I say that OWS should talk to those family members of these service men and women who are suffering at the hands of the 1%

[-] 1 points by YouAreAllABunchOfIdiots (4) 8 years ago

and rightly so....

"Watching the outrageous brutal actions of those police department that are attacking the citizens who not only pay their salaries, but whom the police have sworn to serve and protect"

they are protecting the people they have sworn to... they're protecting the rest of us from you