Forum Post: If the Federal Government were to declare MARTIAL LAW, would that give them the power to go from house to house to confiscate all firearms?
Posted 12 years ago on Dec. 20, 2011, 8:04 p.m. EST by TIOUAISE
(2526)
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And if not, how could they actually, credibly enforce martial law?
Quite the conundrum, I would surmise....
I'm not a gun owner myself, but I suspect that many Americans would be loathe to part with their weapons and would hide them in caches. Some would probably join militias... In such a case, would the Feds not risk being pulled into a civil war against their own people?
And would history not judge them harshly for STARTING such a war when it could have entered instead in good faith negotiations with OWS on pressing issues such as economic inequality, the repeal of Citizens United, etc., etc.?
Any specialists out there who could enlighten us on these difficult matters? Please pass this on to political scientists, constitutionalists, etc. Trolls please abstain for once.
They'd take yours if you had any. Mine are secure for reasons you would never understand.
Why buying into JBS fantasies?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radical_Right#Conspiracism
See #5.
I do wonder what powers Blackwater / Xe mercenaries will have?
Why would the US government declare martial law? Are you actually suggesting that the Occupy movement could somehow destabilize the country and cause that? And are you under the impression that this would be a good thing?
Have you ever heard of Dr. Ron Paul? He just came out squarely against NDAA because it would, in his words, "legalize Martial Law".
NOTE : "TechJunkie" = long-outed T R O L L
To understand WHAT MAKES A TROLL TICK - AND have a chuckle while you're at it - go to:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/how-trolls-think-trollosophy-exposed/
I provide constructive criticism whether you can handle it or not, and I am not a troll.
You're not going to answer my question? It seems unbelievably grandiose and self-important for OWS to even begin to fantasize about destabilizing the country and provoking martial law.
But the part that's really fascinating is the idea that you think that it would be a good idea. You seem to be severely miscalculating the ethos of our society if you think that anywhere near that many people want to just burn it all down.
Yaaawn!
TROLL B.S. never fails to put me to sleep...
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That's not a very compelling response.
Most Americans are not excited about the idea of intentionally destabilizing society. Most people get really nervous over the idea of people intentionally trying to destabilize the country and that's why the post-9/11 years were so fear-driven. Even ten years later, people are more worried about terrorist attacks that might kill dozens or hundreds of people than they are about preventable things that kill millions of people every year, like cancer and heart disease and traffic accidents.
So then how do you imagine so many people joining Occupy and working to destabilize, that the president is forced to negotiate and declare martial law? You seem to be thinking a lot more like a terrorist than like a civil rights protester.
Dear TROLL:
Need I reiterate what I have already said DOZENS of times on this forum, i.e. that my commitment to gandhian and kingian non-violence is TOTAL AND UNEQUIVOCAL? But what would a TROLL care about the TRUTH...
WHO are the REAL ANARCHISTS in today's America, the modern-day Patriots of OWS or the Suit-and-Tie Mafia that has quietly taken over the country?
Isn't it "kinda ironic" that all over this troll-infested forum, OWS haters are accusing the Movement of being "just a bunch of ANARCHISTS"?
Actually, America and a great many other pseudo-democracies are NOT the law-and-order countries that they claim to be, but are basically GLORIFIED ANARCHIES where "MIGHT TRUMPS RIGHT" and the ESTABLISHED DISORDER is imposed on the 99%.
Isn't that why Wall Street got away with clearly immoral AND illegal practices that plunged the country - and the world - into a catastrophic crisis?
And isn't that why Congress has just decided to basically scrap our "Bill of Rights" and "Magna Carta" protections dating back to 1215? WHO is currently governing this country, if not a mafia of SUIT-AND-TIE ANARCHISTS? "OBAMA IS SURROUNDED BY MAFIA!" recently exclaimed spiritual teacher and physician Deepak Chopra - a former supporter of Obama.
As Chris Hedges pointed a couple of months ago, the Great Patriots of OWS are actually fighting to uphold the Constitution and "restore the rule of Law". They are, in a word, the POLAR OPPOSITE of the suit-and-tie anarchists who have staged a covert and gradual COUP D'ETAT against our democracy.
I don't necessarily disagree with any of that. But in what scenario do you imagine OWS triggering martial law? I was with you in your original post on this page until your fourth paragraph, where you mention OWS as the cause of the martial law.
You need "Troll Remedial English"!!! I NEVER suggested such nonsense. OWS has never - and WILL never - do anything that would trigger or provoke the Fed Gov to declare MARTIAL LAW.
But what would a TROLL care about the TRUTH???
I'm going to bed. You're a total and unmitigated B O R E.
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Americans will be transferred to foreign prisons under Indefinite Detention act
http://rt.com/usa/news/foreign-ndaa-suspected-us-367/
Here check this article out http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/0714-06.htm After Hurricane Katrina firearms was confiscated from civilians by the National Guard.
I really don't trust our Government. They don't follow their laws and now they are coming out with Fascist legislation that will justify taking draconian measures under Marshall Law. They will abuse the citizens, no doubt.
Our government is paranoid. It should take its "War on Terror" where it belongs, i.e. ON A PSYCHIATRIST'S COUCH.... rather than "make the whole country a battlefield".
They may appear to succeed for a time, but eventually their madness will catch up with them and destroy them.
The true "ENEMY WITHIN"... IS IN FACT.... WITHIN THEM.
OWS is not their enemy; THEY are! As the Buddha would put it, they are "their own worst enemies".
Yes, our Government has gone mad apparently. They say that they are in a war against terror, but they pass laws that turns on it's citizens--The Patriot Act and now NDAA.
My advice to them; Paranoia will destroy ya.
If they are paranoid, terrified... they should get help for it, NOT declare war on the whole world, including 99% of their countrymen.
If they continue down that road, the United States will quickly become THE LAUGHING STOCK of the civilized world.
We have war mongers in Congress (Lindsey Graham and his ilk). They want military contracts for there cronies. Also let's not forget the oil and war profiteering that goes on. If we go to war with Iran--it will be about that. I don't care for Iran's president (he is a nut job), but we really shouldn't go to war with that country.
Also, prisions are very profitable and so we will be seeing more of those in this country. Do you know that debtor prisons are making a come back in this country? People being thrown in jail for not being able to pay their debt is on the rise. Way to criminalize those who are down and out. Just appalling!
All that is so extreme and so insane that it will end up serving the Great Cause of the 'Occupy' Movement, by AWAKENING AND UNITING the American people against the Darkness that engulfs the Land.
Anybody with doubts about that should read the open letter written in the "New York Times" by four-star generals opposed the infamous NDAA.
Agreed.
I just want to wish you a Merry Christmas. I am only on the board for a few mins, so I thought I do that.
Thank you, "Windsofchange", I deeply appreciate your good wishes and continued presence on this forum.
Happy Hanukah, Winter Solstice, Christmas Eve New Moon, Christmas and welcoming in the long-awaited 2012 year of transformation.
Good Cheer, Love and Light!!!
May we all see the light.... yes, even the trolls!
no but they will try
this will sound cryptic but... this has happened before, we will not let it happen this time around, keep your eyes towards the sky and your belief in yourselves. dont fall for the fear mongering The Powers That Were are trying to perpetuate. the federal reserve is failing, this is a good thing. help the house of cards collapse, for that is all it is.
think about what you would do if you had basically infinite resources. dont get me wrong im not saying "put yourself in the banker's shoes" i mean think about what YOU would do. feed the hungy? fix pollution with free energy? keep people in their homes? what would YOU do? what would make YOU happy? just keep thinking about it.
just remember when you are considering this, what if everybody could have the time to pursue their passions? just because something doesnt have a current use, doesnt mean it wont in the future. the gorilla glass on your smartphone was patented in the 70's and sat without much use until the advent of the smartphone.
"The Powers That Were"... I LIKE THAT! Obama is physically young but spiritually OLD and just as bankrupt as the system he is so unwisely trying to prop up. The old order - or as I prefer to call it, the Established Disorder - is crumbling. AS IT WELL SHOULD, since it is selfish, immoral and against all the Laws of Life (or God, if you are religious-minded).
I don't have a smartphone - only "stupid phones" that plug into a wall :) - or any electronic gadget other than my P.C and a tape recorder which I need for my work.
I got rid of cable - good riddance! no more junk TV for me - and have no car. This simple lifestyle has actually been a great GIFT, as it has allowed me to never worry about money and in fact to share with many people and organizations - a source a deep personal satisfaction to me.
To those who are terrified of "wealth redistribution", may I ask : have you ever actually tried it? For me, it is one of my greatest joys in life.
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OUCH! Talk about dark humor...
I suspect that, at this point in time, Obama has become EXTREMELY annoyed at OWS and that the Gov in general is becoming more and more fearful OF ITS OWN PEOPLE.
Instead of hearing the anguish of the people, the Obama administration seems to be teetering on the edge of "going Hosni" on us... Naturally, it would be insanity and the consequences would be catastrophic.
But there IS an alternative. Obama could decide to open talks with OWS with no preconditions, and with ALL topics on the table, including economic inequality, investigation of Wall Street crime, taking money out of politics, etc.
That would require a true STATESMAN, a man of FDR's stature... Can Obama rise to the occasion or will he remain the great deceiver and crafty manipulator that we have come to know?
Why would he do that? What leverage does OWS have to force a negotiation? And what would the negotiation be ABOUT? Even OWS can't figure out what OWS wants.
"TechJunkie" = long-outed T R O L L
To explore the deep, dark mysteries of T R O L L O S O P H Y, go to:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/how-trolls-think-trollosophy-exposed/
Why would Obama declare martial law? Because of people blocking the Brooklyn Bridge, or camping in parks? I'm trying to follow your reasoning.
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I just DON'T GET this guy at all. History is offering Obama on a silver platter the occasion to become an instrument of God. "Lord, may I be an instrument of Thy Peace". And he would turn his back on such a calling and choose to play petty politics and rule like a tinpot dictator?
you have to remember he was surrounded by officers of the banking cabal, just like every other president for the last century. i think he is trying to do the right thing, he just doesn't want to get JFK'ed or Lincoln'ed. remember both of them were murdered just as they were about to put printing money back into the hands of the government...
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Ask Magog that question.
How's that for dark humor?
And I was thinking it might just be the end of the country...
They 'could' issue that order, what happens next will be in taught in schools - forever.
Could they in fact legally do that? I mean, could they overturn the Second Amendment?
Yes, all the military under martial law would be under orders to confiscate all registered and discoverable firearms BUT this being America and our military being required to know the Constitution and Bill of Rights, being fellow Americans they would likely not in the interest of saving the republic.
At the end of the Constitutional Convention Ben Franklin was asked:"What have you wrought?" he replied:"A Republic if you can keep it."
VERY interesting answer. The only problem I see with this is that under martial law the Constitution and Bill of Rights - or what is left of them! - would probably be suspended, at least temporarily, and in such a case the military would be faced with a choice: proceed with the confiscation of firearms or face court-marshall and an execution squad.
I DON'T want to get paranoid - I'm too much of an optimist by nature anyway - but I do think that OWS and 'We The People' should be talking about this kind of worst-case scenario, JUST IN CASE it should come to that.
P.S. So far nobody has ventured to anwer my sub-question below:
If the Federal Government were to declare MARTIAL LAW, would that give the Obama administration the power to postpone or cancel sine die the 2012 elections?
Anyone know if this has ever happened in this country's history?
Yes, Martial Law would mean suspension of elections and NO this has not yet happened in our nation's history. Presidential elections have occured continuously throughout America's history.
If the polls suggested that the Republican candidate appeared set to win, do you think Emperor Obama would be tempted to.... you know....?
The whole nation would have to be protesting and with outright pandemonium accompanying such that all law enforcement, the National Guard, Military and Militias would be needed to help out(@0...
Well, my husband is retired MP (military police) and he has first hand experience with it when he was called out for 2 riots in the 1970's in Los Angeles/Barstow at Fort Irwin. People had to be in their homes by a certain time around sundown, people were killed in the Watts riots- pull up history on it. There were also the LA riots in the 1990's- businesses being set afire. He says best place to be in the event of Martial Law is as an MP or civilian police.
But, he says if the whole US were under Martial Law he says he would not turn on fellow Americans and would likely be turning on his fellow MP's for doing so.
We both hope we never see the "Blue Hats" /UN enforcing law and order because he'd be the first to 'take them out.' We don't want 3rd world countries coming in here enforcing law and order when they don't have any in theirs.
And if I may add a sub-question...
If the Federal Government were to declare MARTIAL LAW, would that give the Obama administration the power to postpone or cancel sine die the 2012 elections?
Anyone know if this has ever happened in this country's history?
The gun owners will be recruited to man the FEMA camps first. Many of them have the "right" kind of hate for protestors, immigrants and debtors already. Once at the camp, they will take the workers' guns.
Interesting notion!
But are the gun owners united enough to become the instruments of the Fed Gov? It seems to me they will by nature tend to be divided in various factions and militias... and then the master plan could fall apart like a house of cards.
Yes, IF the first people sent to the camps are the commies, gays, welfare queens, debtors, hippies that need to get a job... They will think they are "protecting America!"
WOW! That is scary...
As I wrote a moment ago, I DON'T want to be paranoid, but I do think that OWS and 'We The People' should be discussing this kind of worst-case scenario, just in case it should come to this...
I agree. I think the camps will be slave labor prisons. People are getting jailed for owing money, many prisons already force inmates to make military equipment, the overseas wars, and therefore war profits, are drying up, so they bring the war to US soil. This country spends a ridiculous amount on military. The poor and outspoken will be the first to go, the bankers and 1% the last.
I've long suspected China of having millions of slave laborers in its prisons.
Yes, but their whole country is a prison for workers. Americans workers will find this country treating them the same way very soon, I'm afraid.
According to a recent poll, a whopping 96% of Chinese people say they "resent the rich".
I suspect it's only a matter of time before they join the Worldwide Movement for Social Justice.
Liberate Tibet and Occupy China!
What a misguided and scared little boy you must be. You really need to be medicated.
"FrogWithWings" = long-outed T R O L L
To understand WHAT MAKES A TROLL TICK - AND have a chuckle while you're at it - go to:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/how-trolls-think-trollosophy-exposed/
You wouldn't know a highly trained and very skilled oath keeper from a mindless killer if you had the muzzle of an AR stuck up your nose. You liberal cry baby queens need to grow some nads.
Yaaawn!
TROLL B.S. never fails to put me to sleep...
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(Note: Battling chronic insomnia? Ask your doctor for "EXTRA-STRENGTH TROLL B.S." IT WORKS!!!)
Chronic fatigue is frequently a symptom of those devoid of spines or testicles.
I'm not fatigued, bro.
With all those "siestas" I take in the daytime each time I encounter "TROLL B.S.", I actually feel chipper throughout the day!
"TROLL B.S : recommended by more doctors than any other sleeping aid... IT WORKS!"