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Forum Post: If Syria does have chemical weapons, and has used them, what do you think should be done?

Posted 1 year ago on April 25, 2013, 3:01 p.m. EST by bensdad (8977)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

nothing ?

wait till they sell them to terrorists ?

request resolutions from the UN or take unilateral action

bomb any known chemical weapon depots
establish a no-fly zone
or ?

If Assad does leave Syria, how do we ensure that he does not leave with the chemical weapons?

How do we ensure that the new regime destroys or surrenders the chemical weapons?

What can America or the world do to ensure the new regime is going to peaceful & not vengeful?

167 Comments

167 Comments


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[-] 5 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

The U.S. of A is using chemical weapons of mass destruction wherever they send their troops today. What are we gonna do about that genocidal madness?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2013/mar/06/iraq-depleted-uranium-clean-up-contamination-spreads

[-] 1 points by doitagain (234) from Brooklyn, NY 1 year ago

true

[-] 0 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

How do you define "genocide"

[-] 3 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

A wish to kill off the populace.

How would you define genocide?

[-] 0 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

I am not a fan of 1984's redefinition of words
I'll use the standard wiki definition:
Genocide is "the deliberate and systematic destruction of, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group"

[-] 2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

In this case, "or national group" seems to be the case.

Despite what people might think, Iraq has many ethnicities, as well as religious groups.

[-] -2 points by redandbluestripedpill (333) 1 year ago

If it looks like an effort of genocide, Americans should be discussing ART5.

If corporations damage the environment and the EPA is ineffective, Americans should be discussing ART5.

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Despite sending a group of experts to Iraq after the first gulf war/illegal invasion to clean up the mess left from depleted uranium, there's still a denial that DU is any more harmful than lead.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2013/mar/06/iraq-depleted-uranium-clean-up-contamination-spreads

[-] -1 points by redandbluestripedpill (333) 1 year ago

This is where science has abandoned humanity. When this happens, get braced for a rocky de-evolution.

Scientists are being made afraid to tell the truth by the corporate employment network. Scientists need real support to remain independent with their opinions.

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

The science is in. The scientists are in agreement.

It's the criminal elite who are in denial.

They are the targets. Make no mistake.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/depleted-uranium-far-worse-than-9-11/2374

[-] 0 points by redandbluestripedpill (333) 1 year ago

In key areas, they are silent. Areas needed to initiate change. Primarily the science of the mind. They still cannot admit that all of our problems are from behavior, with is controlled by mental activities, mostly the unconscious.

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

The short answer is to simply unplug.

Radio/ tv / muzak / FB / just unplug.

The matrix has you.

[-] 0 points by redandbluestripedpill (333) 1 year ago

Yes,ignore media subterfuge, but most importantly, focus on preservation of rights and freedoms.

Some very important rights are gong to be deprived of the masses if they cannot find ways to be independent. At this point, the dependency is so great that the people's control over gov and industry are prime. Getting control of tv radio.media enough to get some critical truths out has got to be foremost in finding effective unity.

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Identifying the lies being spread is paramount as well.

It's that old trick of repeating a lie so many times that people eventually believe it.

[-] 1 points by redandbluestripedpill (333) 1 year ago

Oooooh yea. Mixed with a lie to big to tell.

Citizens really need to discuss these things and form opinions that are consistent with all info. Media creates, exacerbates social fears and so works to aid dissociation and repression in the masses.

[-] 0 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Yes, they certainly spend a lot of money figuring out how to divide and conquer, while masquerading as information sources.

[-] -1 points by redandbluestripedpill (333) 1 year ago

Yea, here is wiki with misinfo on ART5

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_Five_of_the_United_States_Constitution

-wiki interpretation- "Congress has discretion as to which method of ratification should be used."

-ART5-

, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress;

That is intentional misinterpretation of the constitution designed to weaken public appreciation for their power through states over the federal government.

[-] -1 points by redandbluestripedpill (333) 1 year ago

In key areas, they are silent. Areas needed to initiate change. Primarily the science of the mind. They still cannot admit that all of our problems are from behavior, with is controlled by mental activities, mostly the unconscious.

[-] 0 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

If NPD is what you are referring to, then yes, it's an uphill battle.

Just convincing these sufferers that they have a mental disorder will be a challenge.

[-] -1 points by redandbluestripedpill (333) 1 year ago

Not NPD so much, but the people's always choosing what is easy, instead of what I is right. It is largely an education issue . W/freedom of speech, that will change.

[-] 0 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Yes, and cognitive dissonance.

Another hurdle for the masses.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (25072) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Monsatan - the future of bio-weapons?

[-] 1 points by Nevada1 (4789) 1 year ago

And fracking with resulting sacrafice zones, seems like a chemical weapon.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (25072) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Fracking if not halted - the future sacrifice zones will be continental.

[-] 1 points by Nevada1 (4789) 1 year ago

Hi DKA,

More on Monsatan---http://www.cheeseslave.com/monsantos-agent-orange-still-poisoning-children-in-vietnam/

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (25072) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Hey Nevada1 - yep - Never forget past horrors. Remind others as many seem not to take note. Perhaps someday the horrors of the past can stay there - in the past - never to be repeated.

[-] 5 points by Shule (2062) 1 year ago

And I bet you also believed Sadam Hussain had Chemical Weapons.....

[-] 4 points by LeoYo (5909) 1 year ago

The same procedures that the international community determines should be done to any government that has used napalm or depleted uranium weapons should be applied to the government of Syria.

The same means by which the international community has ensured that any government that has used napalm and depleted uranium weapons won't share them with others and has destroyed them without being vengeful is the means by which it can be ensured for Syria.

[-] 4 points by Nevada1 (4789) 1 year ago

Good comment jrhirsch. You made a good point here.

[-] 4 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 1 year ago

If you think chemical weapons are weapons of mass destruction, but drones, missles, bombs, artillery shells, mortars, rpg's, and bullets aren't, then you've been completely brainwashed.

It defies reason to watch a country beat itself to death, but only take action to stop the bloodshed once the method of inflicting death changes. As long as they just use bullets and bombs, carry on.

[+] -5 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

So your answer is do nothing?
What if Assad gets desperate and sells chemical weapons to terrorists?

[-] 2 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 1 year ago

When a collision is imminent, don't focus on the obstacle, instead focus on the opening on either side and steer around the obstacle.

Any weapon is only as destructive as the person who possesses it. If Assad is the obstacle, steer around him and remove the weapon from his reach.

[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

how?

[-] 3 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 1 year ago

The question should be who. The FSA, Israel, the U.S., the U.N, the Arab states, Russia, or a coalition? It's a decision the players will soon be forced to make.

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

I dont have a strong position on this, but I am against anything unilateral or anything that puts troops on the ground
and of course we must have ABSOLUTE proof of chemical weapons use
sarin sounds extraordinarily dangerous

[-] 3 points by SteadyRock (63) from New York, NY 1 year ago

maybe this is just a joke to bring your attention. Or maybe you should learn the definition of the Syrian Rebel and explore more of where they are coming from, and why is it always on the border of Israel and Turkey ;) i like The spokesman, Jihad Makdissi, saying reporters Monday that Syria would not hesitate to use unconventional weapons against “external aggression,” but promised that Damascus would never use these weapons against its own citizens - funny thou, the biggest part of the Syrian rebels is foreign mercenaries http://www.voanews.com/content/syria-not-likely-to-use-chemical-weapons/1446437.html

[-] 2 points by SteadyRock (63) from New York, NY 1 year ago

He is not gona go until he eliminates rebel terrorist groups. No country is gonna take him alive. But at least two countries blocking "no-fly-zone" resolution and fast war like in Libya from happening. what they propose is: peaceful negotiation table and new government election. Assad has chemicals, rebels got it. they blame each other for using it.

[-] 2 points by WSmith (1866) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

We can bring democracy to Syria like we did to Iraq. Look how well that turned out.

The Middle East is an abject Imbroglio. In Syria there is virtually no action that would not be either "good" or "bad." In fact every action we could possibly take would be equally good AND bad in varying and random order and for completely differing reasons and aspects. Except one, hand it over to the United Nations and have our Military & Oil Industrial Complex pay all our back, present and future dues! Oh wait, that would lead to even more corruption: The United Nations of the Military & Oil Industrial Complex!!!! Give it to Ralph Nader?

[-] 2 points by Nevada1 (4789) 1 year ago

Uranium slugs and Agent Orange.

[Removed]

[-] 1 points by gestopomillyy (1695) 1 year ago

as long as they dont start trying to use american tax payer money to do anything,, seriously,, american cant afford to pay air traffic controllers and there are idiots out that that think it can afford to give a flip about some ignorant arabs?

[-] 1 points by mideast (506) 1 year ago

I've heard a number of interviewed Arabs & Muslims demanding that America should step in and stop the slaughter.
Egypt & Saudi Arabia & other "locals" have armies - let THEM clean up the mess .


'Growing evidence' of chemical weapons use in Syria - UK

The footage of an alleged chemical weapon attack was posted on YouTube There is "limited but growing" evidence that Syrian government troops have used chemical weapons, UK Prime Minister David Cameron says. "It is extremely serious, this is a war crime," Mr Cameron told the BBC.
On Thursday, the White House said that US intelligence agencies believed "with varying degrees of confidence" that Syria had used the nerve agent sarin on a "small scale".
Syrian officials have denounced the allegations as "lies".
Mr Cameron said he agreed with the White House's warning that chemical weapons use would be a "red line" for possible intervention. However, the US has said that this latest intelligence does not represent proof of chemical weapons use. David Cameron: "It is extremely serious, this is a war crime"
The White House's assessment was made in letters to lawmakers on Thursday signed by Miguel Rodriguez, White House director of the office of legislative affairs. "Our intelligence community does assess, with varying degrees of confidence, that the Syrian regime has used chemical weapons on a small scale in Syria, specifically, the chemical agent sarin," one of the letters said. No details were given of where or when sarin had been used. The letter added: "Given the stakes involved, and what we have learned from our own recent experiences, intelligence assessments alone are not sufficient - only credible and corroborated facts that provide us with some degree of certainty will guide our decision-making." The phrase "varying degrees of confidence" is normally used to reflect differences in opinion within the intelligence community.

Speaking to reporters in Abu Dhabi on Thursday, US Defence Secretary Chuck Hagel said the use of sarin "violates every convention of warfare".
Already US Republicans are saying the red lines have been crossed, that the Assad regime will feel emboldened if there is not action, that the investigation must not be outsourced to the United Nations.

It is clear President Obama doesn't want to go to war in Syria. He regards it as too complex, too difficult, too uncertain. American military action there would have a huge impact on the perception of America in the region - confirming every image he wants to change.
Yet the US is, perhaps, moving slowly and cautiously toward taking action. There is no sense of a time scale and no real certainty about what might be done. This is very Obama: the caution, the desire to bring allies along, the reluctance to rush to judgment.
The UK Foreign Office echoed the US claims, saying it had "limited but persuasive information from various sources" of chemical weapons use in Syria.

It is understood that Britain obtained samples from inside Syria that have been tested by the Defence Science and Technology Laboratory at Porton Down, Wiltshire. "Material from inside Syria tested positive for sarin," a Foreign Office spokesman said. On Friday, Syrian official Sharif Shehadeh told the Associated Press the US allegations were "lies", saying that similar US accusations about Iraq's possession of weapons of mass destruction had proved untrue. Syria's Deputy Foreign Minister Faisal Mekdad also dismissed the accusations in an earlier interview with Reuters, Syria is believed to possess large quantities of chemical weapons and there has been heightened concern among the international community in recent months about the safety of the stockpiles.
Although there have been numerous accusations, there has so far not been any confirmation that chemical weapons have been used during Syria's two-year-old conflict. Anthony Loyd, a journalist for the Times newspaper, told the BBC about the aftermath of one suspected chemical weapons attack earlier this month in the northern city of Aleppo.

Video shown to him by doctors treating the affected patients "showed pretty clearly that they had been gassed", Mr Loyd says. Journalist Anthony Loyd visited the victims in hospital None of the patients appeared to have been hit by shrapnel but were frothing at the mouth, had dilated pupils and several other symptoms suggesting the use of chemical weapons, he added.

US President Barack Obama warned in December that Syrian President Bashar al-Assad would face "consequences" if he used such weapons. The letters released on Thursday were sent to powerful US senators John McCain and Carl Levin. In response, Senator McCain told reporters a "red line has been crossed" and recommended arming the opposition, a step the White House has been reluctant to take. He also urged taking steps to ensure that Syria's chemical weapons did not fall into the wrong hands. High-profile Democratic lawmakers also called for action to help secure Syria's stockpile of chemical arms and increase aid to the opposition, including the possible imposition of a no-fly zone.

What is Sarin? One of a group of nerve gas agents invented by German scientists as part of Hitler's preparations for World War II : Huge secret stockpiles built up by superpowers during Cold War & 20 times more deadly than cyanide: A drop the size of a pin-head can kill a person & Called "the poor man's atomic bomb" due to large number of people that can be killed by a small amount & Kills by crippling the nervous system through blocking the action of an enzyme that removes acetylcholine - a chemical that transmits signals down the nervous system & Can only be manufactured in a laboratory, but does not require very sophisticated equipment & Very dangerous to manufacture. Contains four main ingredients, including phosphorus trichloride

White House officials said the US would consult with allies and seek more evidence to confirm their intelligence. On Friday Israeli Deputy Foreign Minister Zev Elkin hinted that the US should consider military action to "take control" of Syria's chemical weapons.
"It is clear that if the United States wants to and the international community wants to, they could act - inter alia, militarily... And then all the fears... will not be relevant," Mr Elkin told Israeli radio. Mr Cameron said he was "keen for us to do more" in helping opposition forces in Syria. "We want our allies and partners to do more with us to shape that opposition to make sure we're supporting people with good motives," he said.
According to the UN, at least 70,000 people have been killed in the Syrian conflict.
Syria's government and rebels have accused each other of using chemical weapons. A UN team is trying to enter Syria to investigate.
Sarin is a colourless and highly toxic nerve agent that can cause convulsions, paralysis and death within minutes if it is absorbed through inhalation, ingestion, or contact with skin or eyes.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

''I've heard'' you're an AIPAC plant and all round John McCain school, War Pimp who bumps his own agenda ridden OP's with his twinkly-stinkly sock-puppets, so what say you to that ?!!!

Re. "I've heard a number of interviewed Arabs & Muslims demanding that America should step in and stop the slaughter. Egypt & Saudi Arabia & other "locals" have armies - let THEM clean up the mess" You're again self exposed right there & especially in the "THEM" really but which you may yet edit, lol.

Try to realise that Arch-US Allies, the despotic, ultra-right-wing Saudi Regime is right at the heart of the problem. Now go get your brains out of neutral and take your thumb out of your bum and also consider :

You don't give a flying-fuk for Syrians (Sunni, Shia, Alawite, Druze, Kurd, Maronite, Orthodox etc.) or for Arabs or Muslims, much less PEACE itself, you mean-minded, manipulative, mendacious Three Faced Git 'cause if you did you'd understand that 'terror is as terror does' & be able to reflect upon these links :

"So this is a song about tomorrow and about how tomorrow could be better, IF we all - "Each one reach one, Each one try to teach one". Nobody can do everything, but everybody can do something, everyone must play a part, everyone got to go to work - Work for Peace. Spirit Say Work, Work for Peace. IF you believe the things you say, go to work. IF you believe in Peace, time to go to work. Can't be waving your head no more - Go To Work.'' {RiP, GS-H, April 1st, 1949 – May 27th, 2011}.

I dare you to read, watch and listen. Now, go on - unleash your stinkling socks - just like before, lol !!

As already concluded, you're an ''Israel 1st, Conservative Democrat shill" & all round scumbag ! As per :

  • "White House officials said the US would consult with allies and seek more evidence to confirm their intelligence. On Friday Israeli Deputy Foreign Minister Zev Elkin hinted that the US should consider military action to "take control" of Syria's chemical weapons. "It is clear that if the United States wants to and the international community wants to, they could act, inter alia, militarily .. And then all the fears - will not be relevant," Mr Elkin told Israeli radio."(as above)

nosce te ipsum ...

[-] 0 points by mideast (506) 1 year ago

Whatever you are "hearing" - I suggest that you use what your toilet does not see.


Anyone who has the courage to listen to the imams IN ENGLISH -
http://www.youtube.com/embed/njRKaX0ORuI?feature=player_detailpage

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

You're a rancid bigot and deeply prejudiced lunatic who is absolutely determined to cherry pick selected absurdities in order to malign over a billion people and readers will also clearly observe your amnesiac myopia and deranged personal preoccupations !! You know that I can find and append any number of supremacist, chauvinistic and deranged clips of Christians and Jews espousing similar B-S, right ?!

Though your link does not work for me, I am very aware of UK C4's 'Despatches' doc. series and I have watched that programme. Now imagine that I tried to tar all Jewish folk with the thoughts and dark views of Yitzhak Rabin's assassin or claimed Jerry Falwell or Paedophile Catholic Priests or The Westboro Baptist Church spoke for all Christians - wtf would that make me ?! Further consider :

From the last link : "After a city has been traumatized and a country has empathized, a constructive takeaway would be that it's terribly wrong to set off bombs that kill and maim. But that outlook is a nonstarter the moment it might be applied to victims of U.S. drones and cruise missiles in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen and elsewhere. The message seems to be that Americans should never be bombed but must keep bombing."

I dare you to read the links and to reflect on the Richie Havens (RiP) lyrics and the embedded Jackson Browne song too. Soften your over hardened heart, 'eric-bensdad-mideast-weiss' & Open Your Mind !!!

fiat pax ...

[+] -4 points by mideast (506) 1 year ago

All Christians & Jews are not evil or good
The Bible, written by men, may have been inspired by God.

All Muslims are not evil or good
The Quran, written by men, may have been inspired by Allah.


From the Bible:
“[The promiscuous daughter] shall be brought to the door of her father's house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done an outrageous thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father's house. You must purge the evil from among you.”

I have not heard of a single Christian or Jewish woman being stoned to death
for any offence in 1000+ years. Have you?

Thousands of Germans murdered millions of Jews in 1945 –
…..but that did not come from the Bible.
Dozens of “witches” were burned by the Protestants in 1692 –
…..but that did not come from the Bible.
Hundreds of Jews were killed by Spanish Catholics in 1492 –
…..but that did not come from the Bible.

Most “civilized” countries that had used “an eye for an eye” to justify
capital punishment, have evolved away from this Biblical barbarism.


From the Quran:
5:38 "As for the thief, both male and female, cut off their hands.
….It is the reward of their own deeds, an exemplary punishment from Allah."

As of September 2010, stoning is a punishment that is included in the laws in seven Muslim countries including Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Sudan, Iran, Yemen, the United Arab Emirates, and some states in Nigeria. It is used regularly.
I have OFTEN heard of Muslim women ( and men ) being stoned to death for many different offences and having offenders’ limbs cut off.
Have you?

Many Islamic countries & societies OBEY the Quran’s dictates of violence and hatred and sadly have not yet found a way to evolve beyond these barbarities and dictates written more than 1000 years ago .

All Christians & Jews are not evil or good
The Bible is not evil or good

All Muslims are not evil or good
The Quran is not evil or good

The EVIL comes from how a book’s believers blindly
OBEY the dictates in the books – written by men and ordered by men -
that they worship.

Do you know what an Imam’s fatwa is?
…Ask Salman Rushdie or Theo VanGough or any of the victims of “honor killings”

To hear TODAY’s Islam – in ENGLISH - directly from the Imams :
http://www.youtube.com/embed/njRKaX0ORuI?feature=player_detailpage
OR
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_5HIaFFgpE
(you may need to cut and paste these into your browser)

From the BBC: Dispatches -
Undercover at the UK Mosque - the Return

Taught by Imams & others to Muslims in the English mosques today
Quotes from this undercover expose:

“The one who rejects Islam - we kill them

“Judgement for adultery - we stone them until they die

“if some woman acts like a man,
we throw them from the highest place - we kill them

“In our heart, we have to hate what displeases Allah

“Islam means keeping away from disbelievers (kafir)

“It is not allowed to be friends with infadels - the "kafir"

“What the Christians say in their churches is vile - an abomination”

“You love these who love Allah; You hate those who hate Allah”

“Men should control women”

“Kafir are evil, filthy people”

“Jews are pigs”

“Saudi Arabia cuts off criminals' hands and feet -
….all Muslims in all countries should have the right to do the same”

“A Muslim woman working in an environment that is not Islamic is forbidden”

“Women are mentally inferior”

“Beware of taking kafir as friends - you should hate them and their religion”

“ther religions are worthless”

“schoolbooks in Muslim schools ask "describe the repugnant characteristics of Jews"

”Muslim countries must do jihad until all countries are ruled by Islam”


If you are still afraid, and if you want to attack me,
I’m sure that your brain put something in your toilet that you will enjoy using,

but if you have the courage to attack my post, please wipe and then flush -
then, try to think, and use the truth.
Is there ANYTHING in this post that is not the TRUTH?

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

So, what know you of ''TRUTH'' ?!!! You are just an inveterate, incorrigible and irrelevant bigot whose poisonous preconceptions and personal prejudices have led to nothing short of psychopathology !! Be advised 'bensdad', that your very deep seated hatred will corrode what is left of your soul !

Further you should stop masquerading here, as any kind of progressive and face the deeply reactionary, conservative, bigot that you really are. Also, be advised once again - 'eric-mideast-bensdad-weiss', that the Torah can be quoted out of context and be twisted too and realise that 'terror is as terror does'. As you're such an ass and as your soft head and hard heart are so disconnected and pathologised, this link like the other ones will be useless to you, however it may be of interest to other readers :

"Inside the Bizarre Cabal of Secretive Donors, Demagogic Bloggers, Pseudo-Scholars, European Neo-Fascists & Violent Israeli Settlers ... Behind the Crusade".

You will not be engaging with this linked article, just as you have not engaged with any the others which I have provided for you on this and other threads because your twisted (so called) mind is made up but let's face it - we are not talking to each other here really and I am now clearly talking over, around and beyond you. I am not remotely ''afraid'' of, nor need to ''attack'' you 'bens-bigoted-dad' and I have more than ''courage'' - I've a good knowledge of prejudiced hatemongers, chauvinist bigots ; despicable xenophobes and Neo-Con Imperialists - like you.

Engaged readers will note your clear glee above and elsewhere at cherry picking right-wing and bigotted absurdities in order to malign well over a billion people and remember 'eric-bensdad-mideast-weiss', that - ''Truth told with bad intent, beats all the lies you can invent" (Wm.Blake, from 'Auguries Of Innocence').

gnothi seauton ...

[-] -3 points by mideast (506) 1 year ago

I do not "know" the truth - I do not hate - I post the truth - directly from the source - why is the truth so abhorrent?
I read the Quran and post WHAT IS THE TRUTH IN THE QURAN
I do not "know" the truth
I listen to the imams and post WHAT IS THE TRUTH THAT THEY SAY
If you are not a coward, cut and paste the address into your browser and listen to t he imams yourself


To hear TODAY’s Islam – in ENGLISH - directly from the Imams : http://www.youtube.com/embed/njRKaX0ORuI?feature=player_detailpage OR http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_5HIaFFgpE (you may need to cut and paste these into your browser)


Have you had the courage to read the Quran or listen to the imams in ENGLISH?
Was there ANYTHING that I posted from the Quran - not in the Quran

this is the BOOK that people are willing to kill and die for if it is "disgraced".
I never heard of a Christian or Jew kill anyone because "their" book was destroyed


Or is it just easier to slam me


or "you just cant handle the truth"

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

You're a Neo-Con War Pimp and were a prejudiced piece of shit yesterday, are so today and will remain so tomorrow, so you'll forever remain in your bigot bubble. I'll leave readers to decide which way the wind blows. So I am now going to trade you 'truth for truth' - subjective or otherwise and see where we go but can you too, ''handle the truth'' ?

Now try to imagine that I tried to tar all Jewish folk with the thoughts and dark views of Yitzhak Rabin's assassin or the most right-wing, chauvinistic Jews. Or that I tried to claim Jerry Falwell or Paedophile Catholic Priests or The Westboro Baptist Church spoke for all Christians - wtf would that make me ?! Yet you try to make out that you are some kind of an authority on the many variations and schools of thought amongst Muslims ! Like all empty vessels you make a lot of noise but hush now & consider :

Further you should stop masquerading here, as any kind of progressive and face the deeply reactionary, conservative, bigot that you really are. Also, be advised once again - 'eric-mideast-bensdad-weiss', that the Torah can be quoted out of context and be twisted too. I'm aware of your link but now also consider :

Re. The final link, the American political scientists John Mearsheimer (University of Chicago) and Steven Walt (Harvard) published the controversial article 'The Israel Lobby and US foreign policy'. In it they state that it is not or no longer, expedient for the USA to support and protect present-day Israel. This doc. film sheds light on the parties involved in the discussion ; those who wish to maintain the strong tie between the USA & Israel and those who were critical of it but not infrequently also became 'victims' of the lobby.

With political scientist John Mearsheimer ; the Neo-Con Richard Perle ; the lobby organization AIPAC ; televangelist John Hagee ; historian Tony Judt ; 'Human Rights Watch' director Kenneth Roth ; Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson ; Democrat Earl Hilliard ; Israeli peace negotiator Daniel Levy and the investigative journalist Michael Massing, being interviewed.

The question now arises to what extend the pro-Israel lobby ultimately determines the military and political importance of Israel itself. Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson (Colin Powell's former chief-of-staff) explains how the lobby's influence affects the decision-making structure in the White House.

So enough of your AIPAC talking points 'bensdad' - because I for one, won't sit quietly by as you push your bigotry and Neo-Con agenda here on this OWS forum. Go on - call me an 'anti-semite' again, why don't you ? However before you try to 'bring the pain', further consider :

Try to leave your deep seated exclusivism, supremacism and bigotry behind and try to see if you can possibly now aspire to embrace a common universal humanity, one based on reason, justice and love.

timendi causa est nescire ...

[Deleted]

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (21572) 1 year ago

Oh my lordy me.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (25072) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

LOL - Right?

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (21572) 1 year ago

Yeah, it's just beyond the beyond. Where's the love, DKA?

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (25072) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago
[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (21572) 1 year ago

Thanks, :)

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (25072) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

My Pleasure.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (25072) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Also - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jVMTydhx1Y

The first time ever I saw your face I thought the sun rose in your eyes And the moon and the stars were the gifts you gave To the dark and the endless skies my love To the dark and the endless skies

and The first time ever I kissed your mouth I felt the earth move in my hand Like the trembling heart of a captive bird That was there at my command my love That was there - at my command - my love

and The first time ever I lay here with you And felt your heart so close to mine and I new our joy would fill the earth And would last 'till the end of time - my love And would last 'till the end of time - my love

The first time ever I saw your face - your face - your face - your face.

[Deleted]

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (21572) 1 year ago

Now read that back to yourself. And, feel better.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

I think that you need a long lay down in a darkened room and/or some strong medication and that I now probably ''need to close the door and walk away'' !!

pax vobis. ...

[Deleted]

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

'Beardy Man' up in the sky OR Satan down below - STOP obsessing on Abrahamic Mumbo-Jumbo !!

Did you read my more substantive reply to 'eric-mideast-bensdad's' self-absrorbed twaddle just above ?!

If not, please may I recommend that you do so and may I also humbly suggest that you meditate upon :

fiat pax ...

[Deleted]

[-] 4 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 1 year ago

There may be great philosophy within the pages of the Torah. I mean great philosophy can be found in many texts. It is when the adherence to such philosophy is thrust on others that corruption can develop.

The Torah may give you a prosperous path to navigate, but ain't it hubris for you to believe it is the only True path? I laugh when an individual makes religion out of good ideas.

I believe a good way for survival today is an ability to hold multiple ideas in your head. Religion ties your mind to one narrative, stunting your prospects for growth. The inability to relate to other perspectives because they are the product of evil coups is the leading cause of evil. But hey, I wouldn't make a religion out of such an idea.

[-] 4 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 1 year ago

The biggest impediment to understanding and compromise is conspiracy theorists and their grand narratives. Maybe it has a lot to do with the individual's tenacity to make sense out of random chaos. Life makes more sense to the individual when there are great puppet masters pulling all the strings, right?

Religion like all other institutions are just creations of man and tools of control. You do no one any good demonizing these institutions as the great evil in our lives. The greatest evil in this world resides in the individual and is nurtured by his lack of understanding and his flights of fancy.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

Consider the roof (I) on the pillars (C) - both built ''brick by brick'' upon the foundational bedrock (J) !!!

'Beardy Man' up in the sky OR Satan down below ... STOP obsessing on Abrahamic Mumbo-Jumbo !!

May I tentatively suggest that you listen to those songs because maybe you have still ''Miles To Go'' !

verb. sat. sap. ...

[-] 0 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

I don't think you're getting my very simple I, C, J coded reference and please do now try to see that I was abSOULutely NOT alluding to any HaShem ; YHWH ; Tetragrammaton, ''mumbo-jumbo'', lolol !!!

ommm nama shiva ya ; ommm mane padme hummm ; ommm shaaanti ... ~*~ ...

[-] -1 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

Whatever, dude !!! You do get that belief in ''Satan'' rather undermines your own position, right ?!! LOL !

temet nosce ...

[EDIT : Re. below - like I say above ... ''Whatever, dude'' & that's NOT a ''position'' .. it's another 'belief' !!]

[EDIT# 2: No wonder you deleted here 'ProblemSolver/FOB' & good luck with whatever it is that ails you]

[-] -2 points by beautifulworld (21572) 1 year ago

I am really sick and tired of all the hatred you spread on this forum. I do not, for the life of me, understand why you are allowed to post here. Get a heart. Get a life. And, moderators, wake up!!!!

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6457) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

At least you can respond without getting in the fucking gutter, this is the same person that their panties in bunch when I used a couple of common words? What the fuck??

[-] 9 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

I'd say my panties were well bunched in my comments above & with damn good reason !!! So what's getting your stinkling ass in such a huff ?!! Dem-Shill Solidarity with eric-bensdad-mideast-weiss ?!

Are you done with your quota of stinkling for the day yet ?

temet nosce ...

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6457) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

I just noticed what a bunch of fucking profanity you were using when I hardly said shit and you got all huffy. The integrity with which you debate reflects the integrity of your positions. I should not be surprised.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

Huh ?! "Profanity"?!! Moi ?!!! LOL - CalmTF down Mr.Hypocrite & I'll cite the thread that so upset you :

As luck would have it, I just logged on here again after a long day (Sunday has started where I am right now lol) so I leave it to any interested readers to make up their minds as to the respective merits of our positions from the link above &/or starting with http://occupywallst.org/forum/president-obama-dont-cut-social-security/#comment-958444 though we had started getting hot and bothered before that point, lol.

Now we had a fair and square 'ding-dong' there on your OP, as far as I'm concerned. We were both very animated & I laid it down as I do on matters I believe pertinent as you did too, both of us in no uncertain terms, taking no prisoners and cutting no slack ... BUT I will say here what I did not there and express appreciation for your poem re. C-U, despite how you started it & your residual Ralph Nader fixation, lol.

I could easily accuse you of no less than you accuse me of above but what good would that do? This is a place for grown ups and if you dish it out, you've got to be able to take it too. However - if you've really taken offence then ... hard luck but I am honour bound (despite what you seem to think you know about my ''integrity'', lol) to express some contrition - NOT for what I said - but for how I may have said it. Thus I do so, by appending this link :

Please listen to that song & .. This Is O.W.S. & this is what it's all about :

Ergo, internecine squabbling is both irrelevant and counter-productive. I say it like I see it and have not come to my political positions over night or out of fashion but have spent all my adult life slowly getting to where I am right now and am willing and able to debate with anyone - IF I think it useful. I thought our debate was useful. No hard feelings. Life's too short. Be well & do try to fight the good fight for The 99% wherever we are ... however, your targeted stinkling against certain forum-posters (OTP, bw etc.) is NOT lost on me, so 'stones and glass houses' readily come to mind, whether I'm being ''huffy'' or otherwise ;-)

fiat lux ...

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6457) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

yeah whatever....

Since I'm here I might as well say it, I'm glad we killed Ben Laden and if some asshole is using chemical weapons well it would be adding insult to injury not to use our extremely expensive army to do some good as long as we got it.

[-] 5 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

Bin Laden was a CIA / MI6 asset for over a decade and good riddance to bad rubbish but the depth of your unthinking US-centric, militaristic hubris is breathtaking and very clear for all to see, as per your :

  • "... if some asshole is using chemical weapons well it would be adding insult to injury not to use our extremely expensive army to do some good as long as we got it."

So, whose ''insult'' and maybe more importantly - whose ''injury'' ?!!! For example, have you any idea whatsoever, what terrible havoc is being wrought by US deployed Depleted Uranium Munitions in Iraq and elsewhere ?!! All this probably leaves a Conservative (by ANY global measure) Dem Shill like you cold - as you preferred Hitlery Clinton to Obomber all along, right ?! As evidence & for consideration :

Do you even give a shit about this ? Of course you don't & your abject failure / refusal to answer my previous reply is duely noted. If indeed 'facts are fun', then I nominate you as 'DemoCrap Co-Opter In Chief' on this OWS forum - though sadly there are far too many candidates for that title here already !

temet nosce ...

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6457) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

If you gave a shit about any of this you would have enabled the GOP to do it.

[-] -1 points by factsrfun (6457) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

so Obama hating is pretty much your stock and trade hey? well some had told me you were just a Dem hating piece of shit but I didn't believe them i see now I was wrong your love for the GOP and their Wars is a surprise to me but noted.

[-] 5 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

What really amazes me about you factsy is how comfortable you are with your lack of intelligence

...You remind me of the Ugly American who goes abroad, and decides to have dinner in one of them little French cafes and complains loudly...obnoxiously when the waiter tells him that they do not serve hot dogs & root beer....lololol...Surely you can see the humor in that.... eh?

On behalf of all Americans, I would like to apologize for factsy, and I assure everyone out there in the rest of the world that he is considered an aberration here too!

~Odin~

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6457) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Why don't you apologize for the Wars you enabled Bush to start, or the ones you hope to enable his brother to start.

[-] 2 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

As usual factsy, your question is so stupid, it does not deserve to be answered

~Odin~

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6457) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

and you continue in your tradition of avoiding responsibility for your actions..while you continue to help elect Republicans.

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

Being opposed to Emperor Obomber (and Hitlary Clinton too for that matter) - so somehow makes me a GOP lover, does it, lol ?!!! So just how deep does your duopoly delusion and fixation with the faux-binary of US Poli-tricks really go, frf ?!! Can you even try to look past this illusion of a zero-sum game that has really so befuddled, perplexed and confounded you and so many others ?! Further, also try to consider :

e tenebris, lux ?

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6457) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

No not a lover just an enabler people like you enabled Bush Jr.to take the White House and you stand ready to enable his brother.

[-] 0 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

TCH ; Tch ; tch ... and you 'frf' could be easily accused of being an ''enabler'' of Obomber & a would be ''enabler'' of Hitlary Clinton, right ?!!! Again, 'how deep does your duopoly delusion and fixation with the faux-binary of US Poli-tricks really go, frf ?!! Can you even try to look past this illusion of a zero-sum game that has really so befuddled, perplexed and confounded you and so many other Americans ?!'

Further please try to consider that "people are increasingly ready to leave the corrupt two-party system. With President Obama supporting cuts to Social Security and Medicare, drone-bombing countries with which we are not at war, and appointing Wall Street and other big business interests to his new cabinet, many voters are searching for somewhere to go. Even the former head of the Democratic Party, Howard Dean, is talking about leaving the Democrats.'' from :

Still your mind, meditate and look beyond the Corrupt Conservative Corporate Cliques and ... open your mind. This is OWS - and thinking real revolutionary thoughts and radical possibilities is the raison d'etre here. The Bushes (Prescott, George Herbert, George Walker, Jeb et al) are beyond the pale for us here. Voting Progressive Dem in swing States and Districts is like wiping your ass .. NOT a rewarding subject for polite conversation ... but whatTF's the option ?! However we should aspire to so much more, right ?!! Also don't forget who it was who gerrymandered Dennis Kucinich out of his seat - his fellow Democrats !

ad iudicium ...

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6457) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

As far as who gerrymandered Kuninich well your comment is another insight into your integrity as Ohio is overwhelmingly ran by the GOP, after the 2010 census:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_party_strength_in_Ohio

[-] 2 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Nope, but the sheep voted for plenty of others in Congress who voted for those wars. And Gore/Bush is history, not long ago but over with. We have had 5 years to end this bullshit, and its only getting worse.

The entire crew, except for Bush and Cheney, are all still in charge and running the show. All of em. Nothing has really changed.

There is an utter and absolute lack of leadership in both of these parties. They are gutless, tyrannical and deceiving.

I suggest if you are so pro Dem that you get down to your local campaign office more often and start actually using the time you spend on here to do something productive.

Perhaps you can report on whats going on, on the internet, afterwards.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6457) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

I have always been clear the only hope America has is to rid itself of The GOP the Democrats are simply the only tool available at the moment to do that in most places, however in Vermont they have weaken the GOP to the point that it is the third party we could do that across the nation if we set aside our egos and work to get something done instead of just hearing ourselves talk.

[-] 1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vermont_House_of_Representatives

So replacing one set of criminals with another is our only option?

Thats now how this system is suppose to function.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6457) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

I see 8 elected officials that are neither r or d in VT do you know of a state that has done better? how did they do it? by killing their GOP that's how it's done in the real world.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6457) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Well here's one difference it would make, but I have never said that I would be done when the GOP was dead, what I have said is that to do or say anything that might even remotely help a Republican win public office is akin to treason.

This is more bad law made possible by the Republicans, here in the vote totals we see that this law protecting gun manufactures would not have passed if Democrats had their way. The first step in making America better is removing Republicans from office.

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/109-2005/s219

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/109-2005/h534

[-] 0 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

OVer half the people never voted for either of those two hacks in 2000 you ignorant old bastard

[-] -2 points by factsrfun (6457) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

It wasn't that long ago, the Wars started by the people who didn't vote for Gore are still going on, it wasn't that long ago.

(BTW really? you include children in your numbers to make a point? you are a lying sack of shit)

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6457) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

as far as people giving up and saying why not let a Republican win their all shit, i don't know about that, i think more and more people are waking up to how screwed the GOP and their policies are sure they hate the Ds for not being tougher but anybody who actually wants to do something would go into a safe D district where the rep is voting for guns or tax cuts and primary their ass that's how you affect policy, so it all depends if you want to hear your self talk or do something.

[-] -2 points by factsrfun (6457) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

I could be called an enabler, if it were true, but you see i see what is and take the most effective action available to me to make things better, you on the other hand just want to toot your own horn and shout What a smart boy I am!

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

The fact that you dislike Kucinich speaks volumes and your ''kill the Republicans'' is understandable I suppose, coming from where you do but boring and delusional if you regard it as some kind of panacea for all the socio-economic & societal problems that Americans are facing, as you so clearly seem to do.

You are too programmed into the 'Faux-Binary of The Duopoly-Delusion' to be able to see beyond it and your purpose here is simply co-option for your particular 'US Political Tribe' - but no matter how unlikely you are to overcome your DemoCrap fixation, I invite you one last time, to consider :

This thread has been a been something of an unpleasant revelation, as you 'frf' ; 'ProblemSolver/FOB' & 'eric-mideast-bensdad-weiss' have had your collective meltdown !! Your bad language above reflects the absurdity of your position & I too think you ''impugn your own integrity every time you post or comment.''

You seem to be aspiring to be as obnoxious as possible despite my attempts to try to engage you fairly and your graceless nature is wearing me down. You and I are now done and readers will make their own minds up on the relative merits and demerits of our positions. Now before you get the last word in here, look into 'a mirror darkly' and ask yourself 'who do you serve ?' & ...

cui bono ?

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6457) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Here's a piece that's actually on point in regards to OWS

https://www.commondreams.org/view/2012/12/03

But unless you slam the Democrats or praise the Greens, it seems you don't care to read it, if all it does is talk about the real problem.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6457) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

The fact that you lie about how I feel about Kucinich at no point did I say I didn't "like" him, just that I have heard him complain about Ds for years the fact that they didn't throw some else under the bus to save him would piss him off I suppose. Speaks volumes for your integrity.

It is clear who you serve you serve the Rs and the 1% by trying your best to tear down those that would deign them the power to write public policy and start wars. You care more about your own voice being heard than what happens to America, and yes the readers will decide as will OWS. it can join the Greens into the kind of obscurity such that when I recently mentioned them to a collage sophomore she could only remember the Greens of 1903 or some historical reference, that's what helping Bush win the White House will do for you, if you want OWS to do the same keep up your shit.

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

Dennis Kucinich was gerrymandered out of his Ohio Congressional seat by some fellow Democrats ... according to, none other than ... Dennis Kucinich !!! I liked your link above but despite all the history and pretty colours and all, it bore no relation to the point I was making !! How about you hear it from the man himself ?!

You really should watch and listen to the whole of that excellent last link in order to both get my specific point above and so as to see just how far from The 99% The DemoCrap Party now is - but in case you refuse to watch it, allow me to quote the most relevant section re. my specific point [9:10 to 10:20] :

  • 'Abby Martin' : "... When you were redistricted, did you feel that you were deliberately gerrymandered out of office because of your politics ?"

  • 'Dennis Kucinich' : ''By The Democrats - not by The Republicans ...''

You can try to impugn my ''integrity'' all you like & I get that your politics is dictated by your subjective view from a Red State like AZ but I'll encourage you to try to see past the Faux Democracy Duopoly & the next election cycle. Despite The RepubliCon Party being beyond the pale, you can not really deny that The DemoCrap Party is now a wholly Corporate & Bankster controlled 'pseudo-political' party within the 'Delusion of Democracy' that prevails inside the 'Illusion of Freedom' inside The U$A - or can you ?

You have children and possibly grandchildren I think, so please consider that O.W.S. is about them ; NOT you or me nor ''smart'' or dumb ... but Right and Wrong & People and Democracy. Face it - The Democratic Party has sold out its own supporters and The 99%. I wish you, yours and your efforts well and if getting cross and antsy with me helps, then go ahead but try not to let that get in the way of the truth. Finally, try to ask yourself which bit of the following you actually disagree with :

veritas vos liberabit ...

[-] -3 points by factsrfun (6457) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

I would encourage you to reflect on the 8 years of Bush and imagine for a moment if it had been Gore, then go fuck your self.

[-] -3 points by factsrfun (6457) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Are you sure that the GOP which controlled both houses and the governorship couldn't have done something to save him if they wanted to, having followed Kucinich for some time I am not surprised that he complained about the Ds but the fact remains that they were not in control because too few people participated in the two party system to elect a Democratic majority in Ohio then Kucinich seat would have been saved, it was taken from him by people who encourage people to vote for someone other than a Democrat in other words in was you and people like you that took his seat.

What Kucinich is saying is that the D's could have given up some other Ds seat instead of his, because his is so important, as I have said before "The ego is the enemy."

You impugn your own integrity every time you post or comment.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

''Five Facts About America's Pathological Wealth Distribution'', by Paul Buchheit :

... is a very important OWS centred piece & I commend and thank you for posting it above. I am a very big fan of Buchheit and have posted and linked to his pieces myself :

You seem very determined to try to impugn my ''integrity'' and wish to see me somehow as a '1% and Republican enabler' simply because I am willing and able, to see The DemoCrap Party (to whom you seem to be attached umbilically and deeply tribally) as also being totally & utterly Corporate Captured, Controlled & Corrupted. I could of course quite reasonably level such accusations at you but what'd be the point ? Never the twain shall meet so I'll simply wish you luck with your hopes and aspirations.

The fact that the sophomore of your acquaintance, knew nothing of the present Green Party does not really surprise me as the level of political awareness in The U$A is so abysmal and indeed it is one of the primary purposes of The MSM to ensure that continues to be so and a big reason why the US is in the situation it is in. The Greens come closest to O.W.S.'s positions, which is why I push them a little.

Despite saying that we were done, I could not resist replying here with the links above as your excellent link was such a good cue to do so. I will leave you to your preoccupations now by simply reminding you that OWS is tasked by itself to think well outside the box and to aspire to new and revolutionary political paradigms and that Obomber and The Democrats {with the exceptions of people like Dennis Kucinich & Cynthia McKinney etc.} are very far from that & have done so little for The US 99% & much for The 1% !!

ad iudicium ...

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6457) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Your pushing Green Party crap is the same shit that has always been done why not try something really new, like telling the truth? Why not kill the GOP that's never been tried and could be easily done by simply telling the truth.

[-] -1 points by factsrfun (6457) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

How many times can you say goodbye?

The person whom you have not met but rush to insult was very knowledgeable of all relevant political events and her knowledge of the history of parties was quite extensive, yet the modern day Greens have been wipe from the memory of man by Nader and Bush win, this is reality I know it's not something you concern your self with.

You are deeply entrenched in the army of the 1% fighting with all your might to preserve their power, whether you do so with full knowledge or are just a pawn in their game does not matter to the innocents that die in the wars they start.

[-] -1 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

I can manage one more goodbye despite the myriad uncouth provocations, in order to post these links :

Your understandable ''kill the GOP'' is all very well but it is your near religious belief in The DemoCraps that defies logic, history and credulity. You can now go ahead & try to affiliate me to the 1% again if you like but because of a rabid DemoCrap fixation & being American, the deep irony may will be lost on you.

Further as per your crass and hypocritical - "You are deeply entrenched in the army of the 1% fighting with all your might to preserve their power, whether you do so with full knowledge or are just a pawn in their game does not matter to the innocents that die in the wars they start.'' - I invite you to re-read your own words here on this thread & I'm obliged to (inter alia) merely remind of your own war whoring here :

I did not insult your 'friend' but made a wider point and despite our both liking Paul Buchheit's work - your abrasive, confrontational and stubborn nature probably precludes all further communication, so I'll end for sure this time by simply repeating : ''OWS is tasked by itself to think well outside the box and to aspire to new and revolutionary political paradigms'' & that Obomber and The Democrats'' are NOT that !!

fiat lux ...

[-] -2 points by factsrfun (6457) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Could your link machine provide one where I express my "near religious belief in The DemoCraps" so that i can know what the fuck you are talking about?

The veracity of your arguments is exceeded only by the sincereness of your farewells.

Actions speak louder than words and your actions ensure Republican victories, your motives are irrelevant.

[-] 0 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

What would we do if Russia or China attacked Mexico, claiming that it had used chemical weapons on its people? We'd probably defend it, since its in our own backyard.

That's what Russia and China say they will do if we attack Syria, for the same reason. An attack there will destabilize the region, probably effecting Russia and China, which is why they take such a stance on this.

Then, of course, a war against Russian and/or China will become a nuclear war. Is that what our government wants? Is it what the financial oligarchy wants? Is it what we want?

[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

I am NOT stating what we SHOULD do
Obviously, Russia is a very major factor in the equation. FYI - a nuclear war will help no one - not even the kochs

[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

From what I've heard, there is a small group of people who think that a nuclear war would help them. That is the queen of England and her associates, who, as they watch their three hundred year old dynasty dissolve into nothingness, cannot stand to sit back and become figureheads while Asians take over the leadership of the world.

To her majesty, wiping out the majority of humanity, while hiding in her bunker, would be much preferable. I know, it's insane, but what else would you expect from inbred aristocrats?

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

"From what I've heard"
who do you listen to
you need to "listen" to someone else
The English "dynasty" dissolved decades ago and is supported financially by the British people - who will not exist after such a war

[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

I do indeed listen to quite a few people.

Perhaps what was once called the English empire no longer exists in the form that it did before WW2, but the social class that you could call Anglo-American imperialists is still alive and kicking and pursues the same agenda as that class of people always has, which is world domination.

[-] -3 points by DKAtoday (25072) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Yep - the English royal family is just a facade.

[-] -3 points by DKAtoday (25072) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

What? No comment? Do you think the"royal" family is something more then window dressing?

[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

Why should any American care about the royal family?

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (25072) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Shouldn't - But they for some crazy reason - DO. Hell so much so that many have basically bestowed the status of royalty onto the wealthy and members of government.

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

German inbred aristocrats.

The bushites are the same stock.

[-] 1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

A lot of Germans settled in Texas way back, and that's why you hear accordions a lot in Mexican music

~Odin~

[-] -2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

I'm missing something here, Odin.

Mexicans/accordians/Germans/huh??

[-] 0 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

Yeah..lol...that did come out of nowhere, didn't it? Well i don't know how far back Bush's family goes in Texas as his grandfather Pescott (who has a bad rep too) was a Senator from Connecticut i believe

But just as a point of interest, i wanted to throw that out there.....that for some reason there was a major influx of Germans into Texas before statehood, and they brought the accordion with them, and that is the reason you hear it in Mexican music, ie Los Lobos

Feel free Builder to teach me Australian BS anytime ;-)

~Odin~

[-] -2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Germans and Afghanis and Chinese populated our harsh northern climes, Odin.

No BS. ;-)

[-] 0 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

OK, I was setting you up.....Huh? just kidding. I wonder mostly about the German immigration to your super-heated North, as that was so different from what they were used to in Germany

~Odin~

[-] 0 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

They settled in pretty comfortably in Seth Efrika, Odin.

I have some German blood on father's side.

Actually, considering mother's heritage, I'm as close to Brit royalty as you could get, without actually being a part of that inbred clan.

[-] 0 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

Seth Efrica is in the Northern Territory, near Darwin?

My German ancestry maternal grandpa used to butt heads with my Sedish Dad because they were both hard-headed i think. But my English/Irish grandma and him got along great

You don't act like Brit Royalty, Thank God, but it's neat knowing your heritage

~Odin~

[-] 0 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Seth Efrika is South Africa.

Germans were all over it. And the Dutch, and the Spanish, and the Portugeuese, and the English. It's again no-man's land, and the Yanks are doing their best to muscle in.

[-] 0 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

Of course, i knew that, but I thought we were talking about Australia

My ex was born in Central Africa, Lusaka Zambia to British parents

I think i hear my bed calling me

~Odin~

[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

And of the same mentality, regarding nuclear war.

[-] 0 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

And a total disregard for the minions beneath their faux classist gaze.

Can't believe the amount of media crap that a family of misfits generates.

[-] -2 points by Nader (74) 1 year ago

You really think that old lady sits there and thinks that?

[-] -1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

Indeed I do. That old lady leads a faction of the global financial oligarchy, which has been responsible for all kinds of atrocities. Have you heard that she's been accused of drug trafficking? -

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/233402.html

Opium addiction is a terrible thing, I would not wish on anybody. But apparently her majesty makes big bucks off of it.

[-] -3 points by Nader (74) 1 year ago

I remember once in college when my roommate Steve accused me of being a rabid cock gobbler. Do you have any more actual evidence to back the accusation that the Queen is a drug trafficker or wants to start a global nuclear war than Steve had?

Accusations are a dime a dozen.

I bet the Queen's biggest concern on a day to day basis is maintaining the proper ratio of Metamucil to prune juice so she can stay regular.

[-] 0 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

Sure there is ample evidence that the queen of England is a drug trafficker, though I would say drug money launderer is the more accurate term. But if you think that a multi-billionaire's main concern is prune juice, I would think that any evidence that I could provide would probably fall on deaf ears.

As for wanting to start world war three, there is evidence, but such a war is intended as a sneak attack, meant to take advantage of the element of surprise. That is, she just would not just come out and announce her intention.

[-] -1 points by Dmooradian (-74) 1 year ago

This is a perfect opportunity for the OWS to take the lead.

[Removed]

[-] 3 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 1 year ago

Careful. Talk like that could get a Senator impeached.

[-] -3 points by justiceforzim (-17) 1 year ago

He,he...good one. I think maybe he ZD forgot to change his socks!

[-] -3 points by DKAtoday (25072) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

That is the kind of thinking I would expect to hear from the Powers of the MIC with fossil fuel singing the chorus:

Global Warming? Not a problem. The solution is clear - NUCLEAR WINTER.

THE INSANE ASSHOLES

[-] -3 points by Theeighthpieceuv8 (-32) from Seven Sisters, Wales 1 year ago

I travel a lot in the US and I am yet to meet a single person that gives a rat's ass about Syria. And you think what, that we are now going to send our children as soldiers to defend them against themselves? Get real, it's not happening. In light of Benghazi do you really think Obama is going to do anything at all? Hollow words - just politically correct, hollow words...

[-] -1 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

I know its an alien language here
but I asked a question to get an answer
not to push an agenda

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (21572) 1 year ago

How many monikers do you have? More than 3, right?

[-] -3 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

I have two eyes and two monicles

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (21572) 1 year ago

And you still can't see?

[-] -3 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

There are over 70,000 dead. It's a little late in the game to feign interest in chemical weapons as a pretext.

[-] 3 points by Nevada1 (4789) 1 year ago

"Pretext"----Good Point

[-] -1 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

If may be late, but it is what it is, what would YOU do now ?

[-] 0 points by Narley (284) 1 year ago

We should do nothing. We shouldn't be the world police. Every time we stick our nose in another nations business we end up paying for it. Do you really believe the Syrians will love us when the war is over if we get involved?

[-] 3 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

It's not a war. It's a coup.

Get with the program.

And the US has been involved from the very beginning.

[-] 1 points by Narley (284) 1 year ago

A matter of semantics. War, coup or whatever. We don’t belong there. It’s not our business. The US seem to think it can bring democracy and the Christian faith to the whole world. In reality we just continue to interfere in other nations affairs. John McCain seems to want the US involved in every conflict in the world.

[-] 3 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Wars require two (or more) aggressors. A coup is a political take-over, hopefully bloodless.

Syria is one of the five countries the neocons targetted for political take-over way back before Iraq version2 illegal invasion. Have you been asleep or something?

The same mujahedin mercenary army that acted as "rebels" in Libya, are now in Syria. One guess who is paying these mercenaries.

[-] 1 points by Narley (284) 1 year ago

I have no idea if you’re right or not. I just want the US to stop trying to be the world police. Our failures so far have been a epic failure. I also think John McCain is a warmonger.

[-] 3 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Neocon takeover. Look it up.

The physical place of America means nothing to the oligarchy.

They've drained your economy to the point of fiscal collapse.

The five nations that were the target of neocon NWO are Iraq, Syria, Libya, Afghanistan and Iran. One to go. The reality that Iran might be the tough one means it got left till last.

Hopefully China allows the coup, based upon owning billions of US debt. If not, it's nuclear Winter for the northern hemisphere, for maybe thirty years.

You have two years of food supplies. Add it up.

[-] 0 points by Narley (284) 1 year ago

You’re way over my head on this. I don’t buy into the NWO conspiracy theories, or anything like that. I don’t believe any secret society, be it neocons, the Illuminati or anyone like that are trying to manipulate the world.

But I do believe the US tries to manipulate other countries. Probably Israel also. So, I think if our politicians put an end to our global conquest our terrorist threat would diminish.

[-] 0 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

In a lot of ways Narley, i wish I could go back to not believing any of that shit either, but I can't

~Odin~

[-] 0 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Then "way over your head" I shall remain.

You don't have to "buy into" any theory. The conspiracy of the new world order isn't a theory.

As for putting an end to global conquest, I'm of the opinion that it's much too late to say sorry.

[-] 0 points by Narley (284) 1 year ago

I agree it’s much too late to stop the America’s world conquest. We can’t vote our way out or protest our way out of our problems. The problems are insurmountable at the moment.

In order for significant change to occur conditions and circumstances will have to change. Basically society will have to change, and I don’t see that happening anytime soon. My belief is it’ll take a couple of generations and much harder times before the masses start to care..

[-] -1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

You gotta kinda worry Builder when Costco has sales on 90 day (or more) food supplies

It comes in a neat plastic bucket too

~Odin~

[-] -1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

I saw that. And their survival seed buckets look the goods too.

[-] -1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

I never remember seeing anything like that years ago

~Odin~

[-] -1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

They play to the market, I guess.

Marketing is one of the largest psyche industries on the planet.

If only all that research could be directed into psyche health, we would all be much better off.

[-] -1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

Agreed

~Odin~

[-] -1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

G'nite Odin.

I'm cooking dinner for the folks.

Then bedtime for me too.

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (25072) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

30 years? Expecting only a limited nuclear exchange?

[-] -1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Thirty years of nuke Winter.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (25072) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Expecting a limited exchange? As I have seen projections for a 200 year nuke winter if the USA had an all out exchange with Russia ( this was back during the cold war ) .

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

The bombs are more "advanced" now, DKA.

They explode in the atmosphere.

Sure there's gonna be lots of ground strikes, but as far as the nuke component goes, nuke warfare is not what it was in the Cold war.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (25072) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

More warheads ( per missile ) - higher yields.

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

It's very disheartening to think that people of such low intellect and high greed quotient could possibly be allowed control of such destructive force.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (25072) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

It is insane that the worst people to be placed in positions of power - ARE.

[-] -1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

I've heard that Japan suffered much more from the fire bombings which came before Hiroshima and Nagasaki

~Odin~

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

More double-speak, isn't it?

Higher yield actually means more destruction.

I'd like to get my hands on the phukks who intentionally twist our language like that. I'd give them plenty to think about.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (25072) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

BTW - both Hiroshima and Nagasaki were air burst bombs. Yes higher yield means more destruction.

[-] -1 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

I really don't know - I wanted to hear others opinions

[-] -3 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

NO. It is what it was.