Forum Post: I wonder how Occupy will be in 2-3 months with zero degree weather...
Posted 12 years ago on Nov. 6, 2011, 3:41 p.m. EST by thomasmiller
(163)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
It is not yet cold yet...In December and January everyday will be temperatures in the teens or even single digits. Any liquid which is not heated will freeze. Lets say you are bundled up then you sweat and eventually that sweat will freeze. I can imagine someone is going to die of hypothermia...someone will. Right now it is very warm out when compared to whats about to come...
When I was in the military, the cold was the most challenging thing to master. You couldnt put too much on because you would sweat on the move and that made you even colder...but if you didnt put enough on you would freeze.
For your health and safety, I do not recommend anyone being in Zucotti during December, January or February. Normally, I weather out the NYC area with a Northface Down Jacket, ski pants, insulated boots and snow-hat during those months. I cant imagine living outside during that time...
I live in Montana, i just collected a bunch of old ski/winter gear and shipped it. i also wrote a few signs and letters. Hopefully more will do the same. We need them to last till spring when larger numbers can mobilize.
I think they will master the cold...just as they have mastered the trolls on this site...
It's not just the cold that will do them in, they have the funds to get the right gear to survive, but it will be a factor. It's also the ongoing problems with crime that will discourage the participants. The police probably aren't sympathetic to people placing themselves in a dangerous situation and city budget problems may reduce the police presence further as we move into winter.
How cold does it really get in the park?
I just camped out in minus 9 degrees C on the southern ocean beaches. Had a good sleeping bag and gloves and hood. Wind chill prolly got to minus 15.
Keep the faith, people. It's important.
In Philly we already have a warming station built. Up to fire code, with a heater and can sleep two and make tea and hot chocolate. Its insulated and fairly sturdy.
On the contrary: I think that the media will be all of the park when the first blizzard happens. No the media will step it up when the winter covering OWS because it is something to see a bunch of people camping out in the middle of the winter that is not the usual. At the same time OWS can not leave as soon as they leave they are going to lose every right to assemble. We are living in very unconstitutional l times. Stay where you are OWS we are rooting for you.
They will be fine in New York they have shelter tents, they are surrounded by very tall building that block out extreme wind. They actually lucked out with their set up from what I can see. And to be honest you will be surprised how well the human body adjusts when you are perpetually out in the cold. New York weather is not the worst during the winter and temperatures are mostly 35-40 degrees in the winter with a few weeks in the teens and often that changes into highs and lows. They will live.
I have done a lot of primitive camping in very cold weather. In it is no big deal to go pee in the miffle of the night because it is in the woods and perfectly legal, where do OWSrs go? I cannot imagine them trudging very far for relief.
They have portapotties now on 52nd street now.
how far is that?
Two blocks, I read about this in the news.
that is a long walk in the cold for a midnight pee. I think the bushes get a lot of watering at night.
This is one of many reasons we need to stop the pipedream demands and start acting with reason - not wishes There are a huge number of great COMPLICATED ideas that will garner GREAT OPPOSITION.
In an ideal country full of great idealistic philosophers, these would be easy to implement. We need to be realistic & pick an issue that is simple - that is popular -
that 83% of Americans agree on -
that 56% of TP agree on -
that will bring together the people in OWS with the people outside of OWS.
Everybody wins!
Our only goal should be to pass a constitutional amendment to counter Supreme Court decisions Citizens United (2010) & Buckley v. Valeo (1976), that enable unlimited amounts of anonymous money to flood into our political system.
“Corporations and organizations are not a persons & have no personhood rights”
and
“money is not free speech”.
We don’t have to explain or persuade people to accept our position – we have to persuade them to ACT based on their own position. Pursuing this goal will prove to the world that we, at OWS, are a serious realistic Movement, with serious realistic goals. Achieving this goal will make virtually every other goal – jobs, taxes, infrastructure, Medicare – much easier to achieve –
by disarming our greatest enemy – GREED.
THE SUCCESS STORY OF THE AMENDING PROCESS The Prohibition movement started as a disjointed effort by conservative teetotalers who thought the consumption of alcohol was immoral. They ransacked saloons and garnered press coverage here and there for a few years. Then they began to gain support from the liberals because many considered alcohol partially responsible for spousal and child abuse, among other social ills. This odd alliance, after many years of failing to influence change consistently across jurisdictions, decided to concentrate on one issue nationally—a constitutional amendment. They pressured all politicians on every level to sign a pledge to support the amendment. Any who did not, they defeated easily at the ballot box since they controlled a huge number of liberal, and conservative and independent swing votes in every election. By being a single-issue constituency attacking from all sides of the political spectrum, they very quickly amassed enough votes (2/3) to pass the amendment in Congress. And, within just 17 months, they were successful in getting ¾ of the state legislatures to ratify the constitutional amendment into law. (Others were ratified even faster: Eight —took less than a year. The 26th, granting 18-year-olds the right to vote, took just three months and eight days.)
If they could tie the left and right into a success -
WHY CAN'T WE??????????
I feel that we should stay with this simple text to overturn CU:
”corporations are not people” and “money is not free speech”
for four simple reasons and one – not so simple:
1
83% of Americans have already opposed CU in the ABC/Washington post poll and the above
IS THEIR POSITION ALREADY.
2
We don’t have to work to convince people on the validity of our position.
3
Simple is almost always better.
4
This simple Amendment is REQUIRED to overturn CU.
And all other electoral reform can be passed through the normal legislative process.
5
OWS and these pages are chock full of ( mostly ) excellent ideas to improve our country.
All of them have strong advocates – and some have strong opposition.
None of them has been “pre-approved” by 83% of Americans !
Pursuing this goal – without additional specifics is exactly what Americans want.
What do we want? Look at that almost endless list of demands – goals - aims.
Tax the rich. End the Fed. Jobs for all, Medicare for all. So easy to state! Can you imagine how hard it would be to formulate a “sales pitch” for any of these to convince your Republican friends to vote for any of them?
83% of Americans have ALREADY “voted” against CU. And 76% of the Rs did too.
All we have to do ask Americans is to pressure their representatives – by letters - emails – petitions.
Wanna take your family on vacation?
Convince the 7 year old and the 10 year old to go to Mt Rushmore.
Then try to convince them to go to Disneyland.
Prioritizing this goal will introduce us to the world – not as a bunch of hippie radical anarchist socialist commie rabblerousers – but as a responsible, mature movement that is fighting for what America wants.
I feel that using the tactics of the NRA, the AARP an the TP – who all represent a minority – who have successfully used their voting power to achieve their minority goals - plus the Prohibition Amendment tactics – bringing all sides together - is a straight path for us to success that cannot fail to enable us to create and complete one MAJORITY task.
We've been in subzero degree weather with nothing but sleeping bags for the last two weeks. You guys will be fine. Get some mummy bags rated for -20 or something, also look into making yurts, which is what alot of people have up here. Also you can line your tents with fleece to help insulate them. Hand warmers and hot chocolate/coffee are gonna come in real handy. Remember, the government's betting that the winter'll stop us. We can't let that happen. Contact some of the arctic occupy groups, they'll have plenty of advice for you guys.
Well, thomasmiller, then I guess you shouldn't spend anytime in Zucotti.
thomasmiller has been a busy boy on these forums.
Yes, he has!!!
Maybe this winter will be OWS's version of Valley Forge. That was the turning point in the Revolutionary War, you know.
OWS is already in the history. There are some dedicated people here, who can go back to their homes and act from there. OWS is known and has sites like this where it will be alive for long time not matter what the weather will be. We will be 99% ers and economy looks like is not promising to recover soon. The deeper problem become the more popular will be uprising. This movement will not die out until something will be changed. And it is global. The weather in hot places just getting better for protesters. We need to keep in touch globally. That way we can improve whole planet!
http://occupywallst.org/forum/want-to-make-through-the-cold-ny-winter/
1% could give a flying f'k about u. Some 99% have been homeless thru many winters. 1% wont even let em alone on our own public lands.
Winter will seperate the casual "activists" and partiers from the hardcore freedom fighters.
Yes it will.
Cold is unlike heat. In a hot environment, all you have to do is drink water and tough it out. When your body gets cold, you can die. You cant just tough it out and I wouldnt let anyone camp out in the cold unless they had specific training and experience.
I think NYC GA has the responsibility to call for the occupation to end (i like 11/11/11) OWS hasn't got the right to ask people to lay down their lives for the cause. Sounds like gang mentality, Way to Koresh-esque for 99%. They're credibility will flat-line if they don't end the occupation as part of a credible plan to take the movement to the next level. https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/
I share that concern, having a good deal of experience at winter camping (lucky enough to have all of my toes). I have heard that OWS has rented an apartment where people can get a break from the elements in shifts.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/forum-topics/#comment-238805
Winter is coming
I want you to know that I love that whole organized thing.
I play Magic: the gathering
Hmmm......are we related?
I like to sort things
Johnny O has ordered Artic ponchos! Stay tuned! Woooo!
The good part of someone dying in a tent frozen to death is that they will keep for a good while, and the smell won't hit until spring when maybe there will be more bodies to help clean up the thawing old ones.
don't worry those of us that follow global warming science are confident CO2 will save us with higher temperatures. :)
The reason why a lot of folks believe this will end badly is because OWS isnt going to leave the park...ever. Even if the United States suspends its Constitution, it wont leave. When it gets down to the single digits and they are finding they are not getting the media attention they wanted (the media will easily move on to something else), then they will start getting more extreme. It will either be that or they will start finding frozen bodies in the park and then Bloomberg will be forced to make a decision. No one is going to stand for dead bodies in the park...when Bloomberg does make his decision then it will be another Oakland type thing with tear gas and resistant protesters.
Shill attack disguised as concern.
Concern Troll is Concerned.
just sitting in a tent..freezing...day after day. Enjoy you chuckle heads...sorry...i'm giving you the DOWN wiggling fingers
A few deaths ought to make these cretins think.
A few deaths would only make the opposition think 'wow, these people are serious.' I'm not advocating anyone trying to freeze to death to send a message however!
No, the opposition would call it natural selection and stupidity has been removed from the gene pool.
Yep. Just like when MLK got shot. Dumby.
Don't honor yourself with a comparison to MLK. Geez.
Don't dishonor yourself by acting like J. Edgar Hoover KF.
Participating with a bit of name calling are you? Sure sign of a loser.
I thought you would take it as a compliment.
Shows what you know, and don't know
I'm not the KF.
No, again, that was assassination, he did not have a choice in the matter, whereas those that do not know that cold will kill do have a choice.
Ok, so you say that was unnatural selection - your right. How about the buddhist monk from Tibet who burned himself. He's still the rallying cry for that nations independence movement. How about Joan of Arc? How about Scott Olsen? I could name 10 more.
If you want to volunteer to be this movement's rallying cry, be my guest. See how that works out for you.
I want you to volunteer to be the Federal Reserve Chairman. Becuase your such a 'KF'. You don't even live in the US, so worry about your own political crisis.
Why do you think I don't live in the US, oh all knowing one?
Because Americans don't generally employ an arrogant, stuffy, high-handed stance when debating issues in forums.
By that measure, most of the OWS postings here must be by those darn foreigners, then, huh.
By your measure. Funny how you see it upside down.
The Monk was a fool. Joan of Arc fought for something worth while, Scott Olsen is still alive and should have ducked (or dispersed when asked)
Order. You want ORDER. These sheep must obey.
Actually, I think we should remove all those warning labels, and the problem would pretty much take care of itself.