Forum Post: I support Occupy and Obama!
Posted 13 years ago on Nov. 18, 2011, 9:39 a.m. EST by alisone3
(1)
from Phoenix, AZ
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
I am fully behind the Occupy movement, but am a little confused as to why support has not been thrown behind the president and his American Jobs Act. When I listen to the president speak it lines up with what I'm hearing the protesters say. It would be amazing to use Occupy Wall Street's clout to actually get something tangible done at the federal level!! I work in a school and I want to make sure teachers and other community workers can begin to prosper and that schools can flourish and meet the needs of our children. Obama wants this too and I support his, and Occupy Wall Street's principles of fairness and equality.
Obama has spend nearly $100 million on his campaign thus far. Only $50 million was from small individual donors, the rest is from large donors and special interests ( http://www.opensecrets.org/pres12/candidate.php?id=N00009638 ). About $34 million of Obama's funds come from Lawyers, Bankers, Business, etc ( http://www.opensecrets.org/pres12/bundlers.php?id=N00009638 ).
He promised to close Guantanomo Bay, get us out of foreign wars, push for immigration reform, pass significant reform of health care. His party controlled Congress for the first two years of his presidency, yet we got nothing other than a watered down health care plan so poorly written it's now in the Supreme Court. Some will say "he got us out of Iraq," but if they actually LISTENED to the news, they'd know the Iraqis "got us out" .... Obama wanted to STAY. He also, of course, ADDED the Libyan intervention to our long list of foreign adventures. As best I can tell, he has delivered on none of his promises, even during the first 2 years when Democrats had a complete lock on both houses of Congress.
Obama ALSO bailed out GM and Chrysler and continues to bail-out Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. His administration just stood up in front of Congress and DEFENDED exorbitant bonus to the executives of Fannie/Freddie even though those companies are no in receivership ! His administration has ALSO given billions to failed companies. One of these companies, Fiskar, recently announced they plan to build their product in FINLAND.
I'm all for a "jobs bill," but the last one was mismanaged and we're deeply in debt. If we're going to make "investments" in America, can't we at least make GOOD investments ? We can't afford another mistake.
We need to do something NOW, but I don't understand why we have to take the Presidents plan. What are the alternatives, and where do I find analysis from economists indication which ones are good investments and which ones are bad ?
I support occupy and oppose obama, isn't it great how we can work together even though we may disagree on some points!
It looks like Obama, the Democrats, and his union allies are already planning on using the Occupy Movement for their own purposes to pass the pork bill known as Obama's jobs act.
This will happen from December 5-9 ...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/post/next-up-occupy-congress/2011/11/18/gIQAGObiYN_blog.html
Alisone,
I agree totally with what your saying. Thanks for taking the time to get this message out.
We need to be aware of the Truth.
You're Blind OP. I support OWS but Obama is a just another Corporate Goon. He should be impeached, along with every sitting congressperson who has ever taken even 1$ from the Coporate hooker-fund. Now.
Obama is a tool of Goldman Sachs and the positions he takes are that of a Straw Dog who sets up an argument that is so weak, it gets easily knocked down.
His "Change" pays lip service to the issues. that is why his cabinet is filled with the Council of Foreign Relations and Banksters like Timothy Geintner.
I'm sorry to say this, but I voted for him and am completely disappointed by his real actions.
see Rachel Maddow Clip: Prolonged Detention
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9Z2ac34RDI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1BM5lJLPDg
what's that about?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cP0TgOaAqIw&feature=fvsr
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPJUaG-ioI4&feature=fvsr
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dz8YjX2L2wk&feature=fvsr
I can not support Obama as thr US continues to wage war
The biggest problem with this President is that his words and his actions do not align at all.
He's taking bribes. Can't you people understand that?
Of course there really is no good choice. If you vote for anyone other than Obama you would be voting to 'immediately' increase the wealth and power of the 1% so that they could rule without challenge. Voting for Obama produces the same outcome, but it takes longer to get there.
My belief is that the system is beyond repair. Many will disagree but I suspect over time as they sink into personal financial meltdown they will start thinking in terms of tossing the mutant baby out with the bath water.
He's taking bribes. Can't you people understand that?
A legit candidate in the Green Party would win easily because all the Democrats would know that the Republican would win unless they all voted to elect the Green Party.
I support alisone3's call for Occupy to support Obama and the American Jobs Act. While I don't agree with everything that Obama has done, this particular initiative is a legitimate small-scale implementation of one of the goals of Occupy, more jobs. Just like a child, if we give encouragement for good behavior, we are likely to see more of it.
Rofl treat the POTUS like a child. I don't like his policies and didn't vote for him but your arrogance is astounding.
Since the DHS and FBI are working hand in glove with local "law enforcement" agencies to destroy OWS and since both DHS and the FBI are federal agencies under the direct control of POTUS, to support both would seem at best an oxymoron, but more concerning, really self destructive
Prove that. I've seen the reports from "unnamed sources." I've also seen reports from "unnamed sources" saying the whole OWS movement is the product of the Democrats.
If you don't want me to listen to the TRASH reporting about the OWS, then please don't ask me to listen to TRASH reporting about the other side.
Please provide a link to a reputable report substantiating your claim.
Mayor Quan (a Democrat, BTW) acknowledged that she was in a conference call which included 18 city mayors, managers, chiefs of police, and so-called public safty directors along with officials from DHS and the FBI, both federal agencies under the direct control of the administration, or in the case of DHS, a part of the administration, which makes Obama a direct part of the crack down on OWS.
The statement I saw from Mayor Quan did not mention the FBI or DHS, it only mentioned that she was in a conference call with other Mayors. We, the OWS, also coordinate across the different cities. Why is what the Mayors are doing more surprising or "evil" than what WE do ?
Please provide a link to a statement by Mayor Quan that mentions the FBI or DHS reported by a reputable source.
I am not arguing "against the OWS." I am arguing in favor of fact. I have heard many reports from "unnamed sources" that say we (the OWS) are nothing but a "front" for the Unions and Democrats. I want to see the level of "trash" reporting reduced, and I won't listen to ANY report on either side from "unnamed sources."
I don't see how someone who clearly identifies with the political agenda of the 1% can also claim to be part of OWS. Mayor Quan does the bidding of the 1% by authorizing police brutality. The buck stops with her in terms of the OPD. I don't see her (or in fact, any of the 1%) as "evil" in the sense that they are undoubtedly as capable of loving personal relationships as anyone else. While she might not be personally quite in the 1%, as a political operative in a corporate state she is clearly doing their bidding. Does she have the "right" to do so? Anybody has the "right" to do anything that anybody else can't stop them from doing.
OWS is very clearly in opposition to the corporate state. Since Obama is chairman of the board of that very corporate state it hardly stands to reason that he or the Democratic Party of which he is leader in any way "run" OWS, though it is true that centerist elements in the Democratic Party are trying very hard to figure out how to bend OWS to its needs which would basiclly destroy OWS while more leftist elements of the Democratic Party seem to be drawn towards its anarchist orbit and perspective.
Labor is a more complicated questions. In many respects OWS is fulfilling a role which organized labor would do, or ought to do, were it less conservative, less bureaucratic, and less hamstrung by restrictive labor laws. Institutional sections of organized labor have been drawn toward OWS both because of OWS's selfless devotion to the cause of ordinary working people and because many rank and file trade unionists were active in OWS from day one dragging their respective unions toward it kicking and screaming.
No link to a reputable source reporting Mayor Quan mentioned the FBI or DHS, huh?
As for whether I support OWS, read my post at http://occupywallst.org/forum/one-percenter-ready-to-join-if/ . If you want in more detail and are willing to read, look at my 3 part response to an NYU journalism student at http://occupywallst.org/forum/one-percenter-ready-to-join-if/#comment-295977 . Also see my proposal for getting the money out of politics at http://occupywallst.org/forum/we-the-people-in-order-to-a-proposal/ my call for OWS to excercise it's ECONOMIC power at http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-power-of-the-people/ and my Christmas shopping guidelines at http://occupywallst.org/forum/ows-please-support-the-american-worker/ .
I did NOT say the Democrats run OWS, I said there are reports from "unidentified sources" that say so. These reports are "trash journalism" as it YOUR post saying the FBI and DHS are colluding in the break up of OWS protests. PLEASE provide a link to show me I'm wrong as I requested.
OWS has no clearly stated objectives or demands, and it's downright SILLY to say someone doesn't support OWS because they don't support every single distorted and unsubstantiated utterance on this forum. Some of us have MINDS, demand FACTS, and INFORMED positions. OWS is NOT a religion, and we do NOT have to have BLIND FAITH !
It seems to me that The Declaration of the Occupation of New York City is one of the most coherent political documents ever produced. True, it has no demands, but then neither did the Declaration of Independence after which it is modelled. The many grievances it lists are clear enough and certainly imply demands, though they may imply different and even contradictory demands, which is one reason not to raise them. Many social movements have differing demands. For example most civil rights activists wanted racial integration while a few favored equal rights among racially defined communities. Some labor unions are for craft unions and the kind of demands that implies while others are for industrial unions. OWS is not even in its infancy. It's really not even out of the womb. It can hardly be expected to be more than it is.
As I said. I support OWS. You don't need to defend us to me.
You have yet, however, to substantiate your inflammatory statement that the FBI and DHS participated in breaking up the OWS protests. Posting such information without vetting it is irresponsible.
Fair enough. This is hearsay on my part and I truely can't remember where I read it, though it doesn't seem especially inflamatory to me and historically speaking it seems quite reasonable. After all, it's well established that the FBI has always been involved in the survailance of the left. J. Edgar Hoover even wrote books about it. Why should we expect that it would treat OWS any differently. So, while I can't off the top of my head provide that the FBI is involved in the survailance of OWS, it would be historically inconsistent if it wasn't. There is also historical evidence that the FBI both shares and with holds information from local law enforcement, so there is no reason that this is not the case also with any information it has about OWS, though since everything OWS does is public this is not such a difficult project. It's simply a matter of reading e-mails like this one and going to GAs. As for DHS, given how they treat ordinary citizens at air ports and even train stations, it would truely be odd if they weren't taking a look at OWS. All that said, I personally believe that this is a truely trivial issue and I'm personally astonished that I've taken as much time as I have to discuss it.
Much more important, and I think troubling is the possibility that OWS could be taken over by the Democratic Party, which historically has been the grave yard of all mass movements. This would be especially odd and ironic as the chief adversaries of OWS right now are for the most part big city Democratic mayors. I do not see the Democratic Party as any kind of conspiracy. Quite the contrary. If anything it is more disorganized than OWS. But what it is that OWS isn't is a distinctly pro corporate, pro capitalist formation. Becoming ensnared in its priorities would undermine the most fundamental values of OWS.
It matters to me because it's one thing to say mayors are trying to learn from one another and another to say the Federal Government is conspiring to break up the movement.
I agree the FBI is probably watching, and they SHOULD. I'm old enough to remember how upset we all were back in the 60's that the FBI took our pictures. Today, we willing post those pictures and much more for all to see, and we let Google track our every movement on the web ! We HAVE been seeing some domestic terrorism, and the anarchists and others who like to join our ranks might actually DO something terrible in their passion. The breech in privacy of having our photo taken is minor given how much information we all expose anyway, and it's worth it if it prevents even one act of domestic terrorism (in my opinion).
As for politics, I think OWS is hosed. Both the Republicans and Democrats have caused the problems we have, and neither seems interested in change. Given the amount of money flying around, it's almost impossible for a 3rd party to even compete. I wish I had a good idea, but I'm pessimistic about political change.
I am very OPTIMISTIC about our ability to change the face of corporate America using our power as consumers. See http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-power-of-the-people/ for the longer term view and my guidelines for Christmas shopping at http://occupywallst.org/forum/ows-please-support-the-american-worker/ for near-term and immediate actions.
Personally, I don't think there should be an FBI, or a CIA, or an NSA, or for that matter a local police force. I don't want to live in a world that feels the need for thugs to "protect" us, even intellectual thugs.
As for domestic terrorism, as tragic as 9/11 was, we, all of us, stand a much much greater chance of dying of heart disease, cancer or for that matter a traffic accident than from terrorism and I don't see an appropriate level of resources directed there. As for "terrorism" it would disappear the second the US closed all its military bases around the world and spiked its nuclear arsenal, a "demand" IMHO implied in the Declaration of the Occupation grievance against colonialism and militarism.
As for corporations I'm not for "changing their face." They are inhumane institutions not rooted in human betterment but in profit pure and simple (and that goes for the nonprofits too). They need to be destroyed root and branch and their resources democratically reorganized from below in the interest of all instead of in the interest of a tiny band of stock holders.
I realize that your position is probably consistent with the vast majority of OWS supporters who would probably be willing to go home with the adoption of some paltry reform like campaign finance reform. Though I think my own position is more reflective of the more radical minority of the movement who are in fact its originators and who also represent its most coherent tendency which is precisely how so radical a document as the Declaration of the Occupation could get a consensus in the GA.
My own hunch is that the vast majority of OWS supporters either haven't read the Declaration, or they don't understand its implications, or they tend to consider it hyperbole.
I think we have reached the point where we'll have to agree to disagree ;o)
Depends on what? Would you not agree that the vast majority of OWS supporters have a rather reformist perspective if they bother to think in those terms at all and would be satisfied with a range of legislative reforms and perhaps a constitutional ammendment or two while a minority is much more radical in its vision and perspective and that minority was really at the core of the movement from its origins and remains ideologically dominant even if a majority either disagrees with or does not understand that perspective.
I meant we'll have to agree to disagree visa vs your more radical stance vs my own evolutionary stance.
Of course, but how's this: Back when I was in SDS, when it first started it had an interesting perspective with which I still agree. It called for a coalition of liberals and radicals. As it was put back then: "liberals for their relevance and radicals for their vision." It was a perspective that I agreed with then and still agree with, but it also presupposes that to be meaningful neither tendency give up its unique perspective or point of view. That is, to work both tendencies have to agree to disagree within the framework of the same movement, which is exactly what I think is happening in OWS and why it is working and why it will continue to work so long as the creative tension between those two tendencies (neither caving in to the other) continues to exist. IMHO should either side "win" it would spell the death of the movement. Should the radicals "win" in any absolute sense it would condemn OWS to the life of a tiny left wing sect. On the other hand, should the reformers win, OWS would become nothing but an appendage of the Democratic Party where all mass movements since the Populists have gone to die.
Yup,it's a conspiracy. K O N spiracy
I don't think it's a conspiracy. If it were a conspiracy it wouldn't work nearly as well as it does. It's more like Brear Rabbit and the briar patch. You get miard in this sticky mass which is the Democratic Party. Beware.
maybe it's because it is not legal for the CIA to operate within it's own borders. they haven't stopped the protest, not even trying. what they did was yank down the curtain the OWS leadership has been operating behind.
What OWS leadership? What curtain? I'm fairly active in OWS in the sense that I go there on a part time basis. There are certainly lots of talented people involved, as well as many not so talented people, but it's hard to tease out any conspiracy of secret leadership. It is true that many of the originators are well versed in anarchist theory (a fact that the MSM finds impossible or at least uncomfortable to discuss) but it would be very difficult indeed to substantiate that they or anyone else is pulling strings in some conspiratorial way.
Teachers should go on strike.
By the looks of it the government isn't going to help anyone.
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I respect your right to support Obama. It is my right not to support him also
I agree, Obama has been one of the most progressive presidents in the post WWII era. Beside having policies that would fix America if the GOP would listen to his proposals, he's getting us out of the wars, repealed DADT, crippled al-Qaeda banned water boarding, helped the Libyan people bring down a horrible dictator and is putting us on the path towards clean energy with the CAFE standards in only three years as president. The Republicans would back down if Obama had the full weight of the Occupy movement behind them. Unfortunately, we live in the Internet generation where everyone wants change immediately, and people forget that things like FDR's New Deal and the Civil Rights took decades to fix the problem. These problems don't go away so quickly, and all this progress would be undone if Obama loses in 2012. I know he has not been perfect, but we will have someone different in 2016. Come on #Occupy, support him.
Obama is dismantling the middle class in exchange for a new world order. his actions and policies when analyzed are destructive to our economy and to the aims of the 99%. he has accepted more $$ from Wall Street than any pres in history.
Obama's Healthplan is going to destroy us even further into debt and we are not going to get any better healthcare then we do now, which is not much when you think of what science can do these days.
We are not rich enough to benefit from what science has discovered these days but we sure are paying with our tax dollars towards science research.
You say "Obama wants to". What makes you believe 'Obama wants to'? Is it because he has said so? Obama said a lot of things during his campaign, many high-minded statements about getting the lobbyists out of washington only to bring them in the minute he was in office. He said many sweet things about reigning in Wall St. only to pander to them from the moment he set foot in office. He also waxed eloquently about health care only to throw out the single payer (universal health care) and tie every working american to the corrupt health insurance companies or be fined. He extended the patriot act and has continued many if not most of Bush's policies so please save me from all of 'Obama's wants'!
You are dense.
Wow, what a thoughtful response.
I'm with you alisone. Don't worry. Just support others right to cast their vote as they see fit. It'll be fine.
He is a mass murderer and should be arrested.. What he says and does are completley differnt things.
Obama pals: Rubin, Corzine, Fuld, Dimon, Blankfein, Summers, Daley: all mega rich liberal bankster/bundlers.
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obama is just as crony as the rest of the politicians. the only part of the jobs act worth supporting is infrastructure.
jobs act? you mean UNION jobs act.
The president is an idiot. Spending billions more and putting our country further in debt is not the answer. Loosening the heavy handed government oversight and regulations is killing American business. Obama is the problem, not the solution!
Obama is a Wall St puppet.
Only hypocrites suffering from Stockholm syndrome would support this liar and fraud.
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I would not buy into that:Because working within the system will destroy OWS. We are faced with a broken down political system that is manipulated by multinational corporations that don't give a damn about US or any other country for that matter. The willingness of Obama to compromise speaks of political selfishness. He received a Nobel peace price, but has demostrated a different attitude toward peace and justice,turned around with an almost warmonger attitude. I would advise Him to reveal the thruth about his greed for power. So don't fool yourselves thinking that Obama is for the people. He is for the people when it serves him. He is a politician, that's all. He woul love to arness the power of OWS for his gain. If OWS works within the system and compromises with it It will loose its steam. Thats my opinion.
No one of any intelligence believes anything a politician says in a speech. Wake up!
Life is not fair, get over it.
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Occupy wall street has no clout. Why would you even think that?
ROFL at Obama. what a Joke.
you'd get more accomplished if you voted for Ahmadinejad
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Wow. Reading the posts here sounds like the Republicans really are behind this. Good job, right wing fucks.
Whatever your issues with Obama, the practical reality is that however successful Occupy is, we are still going to be choosing between Obama and Romney/Gingrich/? next fall. He may not have fulfilled all your "hopes", but he is our best chance of getting anything done in the short term. In 5 years hopefully there will be a credible 3rd party candidate that hasn't been tainted by 1% graft.
Because the American Jobs Act is a farce. It is about as trustworthy as me saying that I will create 2 million jobs. This Dumbass has just about killed a pipeline that WILL put 20,000 people to work.
http://mediamatters.org/research/201111090012
gota stop watching a network that you know good and well lies every time they move their lip.
See my post above. Samuelson's report seems pretty "fair and balanced."
You mean like CNN?
i mean do the research. you and i both know the networks place ratings before reporting.
That is why I said what I say. Good catch. It's still a good idea to watch them all though. Helps one know where the herd is.
lol. mooooo
:-)
Okay rich,let me ask you then,where do you get your news info from? Also you need to quit making the assumption that the only news source for people who disagree with you is network tv. OWS thinks that anyone who disagrees with them is stupid. How stupid is that?
i never called anyone stupid. i jumped on you for trolling people that are sticking up for you, your kids, and grandkids. you may not feel the sting yet (it's always ok as long as it's the other guy getting fkd) but if you spent more time looking at data instead of being a dick, you would see you are fast approaching the edge of the cliff. the longer it goes on, the more people will be effected. eventually it will start tearing down even the 1%. the thing you seem to be missing is capitalism requires currency to cycle thrue the system. there is only so much in the system. with more and more ending up in fewer peoples hands, it's not circulating thus strangling the flow and capitalism itself. sure they can just keep making more money. and milk will quickly go over $10 a gallon and we will end up in bread lines just like russia did when they had runaway inflation. your insulting protesters is simply an outlet for the fear you are not able to articulate.
See there you are wrong my friend. They think and claim to be sticking up for me but they're not and it's arrogant of them and you to say so. It's quite obvious I disagree with most of what OWS is for. As for the sting my friend, I got my layoff notice two weeks ago but you know what? I'm not whining about getting screwed I'm going to get another job. You would thrust your beliefs and ideas on others without any respect for what they think or how they feel.
and you will take a pay cut at your next job. and when you get laid off and find yet another job, you will again take a pay cut. we are on a one way path unless it gets fixed soon. stop with the bs and and do the math. you rhetoric is old and tired. you all say the exact same. no matter how many times the numbers are stuck in your face. you refuse to accept reality. well, enjoy your pay cut. i'm sure you will be very happy about it.
It's nice how you assume I will get a pay cut. In 34 years of working I have NEVER taken a pay cut. Thanks for wishing evil upon me though. My skills are such that I'm in demand,sorry if you didn't plan your career that way.
i'm not real superstitious. if you take a pay cut, maybe you should protest.
Lol,nah,I just won't take the cut. You did make me laugh though :-)
i'm just say'n. i know OWS isn't sending the message but the protesters are every day people. try to separate the brand from the protesters.
you mean MSNBC or CNN ?
or another liberal democrat owned news channel
Media Matters is a left wing digital rag with an agenda; to protect democrats, period.
http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-11-13/green_sheet/30393379_1_keystone-xl-keystone-pipeline-tar-sands
http://blog.heritage.org/2011/11/10/obama-delays-keystone-pipeline-delays-jobs-and-energy-too
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jamie-henn/keystone-pipeline-jobs_b_1093285.html
http://www.pipeline-news.com/feature/labor-agreement-keystone-xl-pipeline-create-13000-american-jobs
the only people claiming 20,000 is fox
http://nation.foxnews.com/keystone-pipeline/2011/11/10/unions-furious-obama-killing-pipeline-jobs
blanketing an entire party by trying to discredit a source is classic "i have no real material to back my position".
Fair enough, good sources. I suppose a few jobs created is not what we need and we only need them in the "green sector", no fraud in those numbers, right?
hey now, i didn't say that. but if we are going to debate job creation lets not engage in metal masturbation by including shaky data is all i'm saying. there are other considerations like http://newenergyandfuel.com/http:/newenergyandfuel/com/2010/05/04/algae-straight-to-crude-oil
A pretty balanced discussion of the pipeline from a fairly reputable source may be found at http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/obama-jobs-and-the-keystone-xl-pipeline/2011/11/11/gIQAdQVUCN_story.html . The jobs number given is 5 - 6 thousand, though it is limited to those in construction alone and not the jobs and growth at the west Texas refineries. Nevertheless, I doubt the 20,000 figure.
I AM concerned that we are jeopardizing access to energy from a friendly nation and will, as a result, remain proportionally more dependent on energy from the Middle East. We would never have even given the Middle East any notice if NOT for oil, and I want out from under their thumb ASAP.
As for the Environmentalists, I echo the sentiment given in the report at the link above; We will not stop the production of oil sands simply by refusing to consume that oil; it will be produced, and it will be consumed SOMEWHERE in the world. I just as soon it be us due to the jobs and energy security it provides.
Also for the environmentalists, I am a HUGE fan of alternative energy, and we need to keep pushing hard on that front. In the meantime, I would just as soon WE get the jobs and progress toward decoupling from the Middle East.