Forum Post: I Protest Because.........
Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 19, 2011, 2:25 a.m. EST by Wildcat682
(178)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Due to a certain member of this forum accusing me of making wild presumptions, even though I'm trying to find out what this movement is about to see if it supports or conflicts with my own ideals, I'm creating this post.
I want to know. Why do you protest?
I protest because I love people. :)
I protest because we had something that worked sixty years ago, and it was called the New Deal. We had something that was able for the first time to effectively balance the needs of the majority of the population with the profit motive, and from that something we were able to build and hold a very strong working and middle class. What we were doing in the 1950s and 1960s as far as education and the economy are concerned landed us a man on the moon and allowed us to push the Soviet Union to the point of internal collapse.
In the name of making Uncle Sam more efficient and creating jobs we stripped out as much of the New Deal as we could get our grubby hands on. We repealed Glass-Steagall. We passed PRWORA, effectively dismantling several of the more functional aspects of welfare and replacing it with a program that throws people out on the street after five years if they're unlucky enough to stay unemployed. We deregulated industry and watched as all of the jobs went to China and India, and we watched as a comfortable middle-class life moved farther and farther out of the reach of the ordinary man.
I'm protesting because I feel like we already have historical precedent as to what works, confirmed by a Republican and an incredible patriot no less (Eisenhower), and that we need to move toward a second New Deal both to clean up this mess and to prevent us from heading in this direction again any time in the near future. I'd post it here but it's apparently too long.
An overview of the plan: http://www.themultitude.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=184&start=10
The rationale behind Section III: http://www.themultitude.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=23
A possible infrastructure project for Section VI: http://occupywallst.org/forum/could-high-speed-rail-be-the-answer/#comment-197932
General ideas to flesh out sections VII ad VIII (still in progress): https://docs.google.com/document/d/1gytiI1qwPDpnLQ8cRmNXoJFmiy4ob3n6yjqfBHpBH8M/edit?hl=en_US
Thoughts?
I protest because there is something inherently wrong with this world, and I believe it is a learned condition through the perspective of Seperation. Through the belief of seperation came Survival of the Fittest. Through that came envy of someone else's goods. Then through that came an irrational and phobic paranoia of "mine mine mine gimmee gimmee gimmee i need more, bigger, and better!" and that just multiplied by an obscenely large number for an obscenely large amount of what we call time to the point that the Earth, for all its years, has been slowly falling apart and reversing its natural cycles in a disproportionate time compared to its long existence. Stress is unnatural to the human brain, it is biologically proven. We are not meant to suffer, and we are not meant to strive each day to survive.
We are meant to live in peace, through unity and love, to go through life and all its joys in wisdom and Truth, forevermore. As a child, I saw through the bullshit that everyone else practically licked up. I pity my past generations, for they knew not better. And I pity our generation, for we must work hard and long to reverse the inconceivable amount of damage we have inflicted upon ourselves, eachother, and our planet.
Hey guy, I'm all for this movement. You may be lacking in pwerspective. I don't claim to know the whole truth as you do, however I do feel humans, and all animals, are meant to strive each day to survive. It's actually fundamental to our fulfillment. We took mother nature much further from the equation, so now we are only oppressed by each . Struggle makes you stronger. Because it is hard, it is not bad. Freedom from stress and strife would be a complete departure for the Human Race and will take more struggle and collaboration than will be easy for most. We must stay strong and fight, even if have to stress a little.
It's okay. No one is perfect, and everyone has their own truth (though there are some truths that overlap with others, causing them to be generally accepted). I'm not perfect either, just stating what I believe in. However, I'm no one to push my beliefs on anyone and thank you for calling it out.
I believe 'freedom from stress and strife' will happen much later on when we are highly evolved. I might have said my thoughts a little jarbled, so I apologize. I have much to say and it's hard for me to get it all down coherently. But yes, there is struggle and a beauty in it which is natural. I'm talking about the unnatural stress and struggle that is breaking us down. We used to be healthy, active human beings going about our daily functions. We used to be simple, even with our labors.
For someone so full of love, what do you have against past generations? As if every person that came before you is the fool who does not know the truths you do. Everyones life is determined by themselves, our own perceptions and actions. If you're going to protest do it for yourself, unless that's considered greedy.
Would you like me to speak every other word as a disclaimer? Can you look past that and see my message? Of course I don't mean each and every individual, though most of them directly or indirectly impacted this planet to what we see it as today.
And of course I'm not gonna pour all the blame on our past generations, or at least most of them (if that made you feel better for me to be specific though I don't think I really need to be). It's just easier for me to type like that because I had alot to say. Our past and present generations made the choices they made (or at least most of them) because of what they experienced and learned. At one time burning a witch at the stake was considered a common thing, now we all (or most of us) rise against it. Just a couple decades ago, it was considered a common thing to have segregated schools, bathrooms, restaurants, even segregated fountains until most of us rose against that. Right and Wrong changes every second for most of us, but there are some things considered generally 'right' and 'wrong'. And I think that is what we are fighting for.
Regulations are a good thing right; yes a disclaimer please.
Sorry, I didn't understand what you said?
"We are not meant to suffer, and we are not meant to strive each day to survive."
I wonder if your ancestors who had to till the earth and hunt animals for their food, then brave the weather, wild animals, and disease would agree with you on this.
Yes, but that was all very basic, and even through their toils there came a joyous satisfaction of what they accomplished that day. There was no unneccessary and added stress to their lives. It was not complicated further than what you explained.
The point, also, is that the levels of evolution has already occurred for us to learn from our ancestors and distribute the world's resources to all. We have unneeded and large amounts of stress put onto our backs so much so that compared to the physical labor of our ancestors, this is much more severe and lethal. It is breaking us down, and we are developing many immune disorders and stress-related diseases, not to mention the things that are being put into our food to make it last longer, which has a horrible short-and-long-term effect on our bodies.
In addition, we move around a lot less, eat tons more food, spend more time and resources on entertainment, have far more amenities, and do a lot less physical work than our ancestors.(just to name a few things) Not only did our ancestors have physical stress on them, the also suffered from mental stress. Imagine having to worry about illness because you do not have medicine to cure you. Imagine having to worry about starvation because you do not have adequate food. Imagine having to get up and physically work, even when you are in physical pain because you have a family to support. Imagine having to spend your life subjected to the will of nature because you do not have an AC or heating unit.
I believe we are well compensated by our material possessions to account for the mental stress that comes with it. Besides, mental stress is placed on you, by you. Like they say, don't sweat the small stuff.
"Not only did our ancestors have physical stress on them, the also suffered from mental stress. Imagine having to worry about illness because you do not have medicine to cure you. Imagine having to worry about starvation because you do not have adequate food. Imagine having to get up and physically work, even when you are in physical pain because you have a family to support. Imagine having to spend your life subjected to the will of nature because you do not have an AC or heating unit."
You just explained the condition of 65% of this planet. Or more.
Yeah, well I don't give a shit about 65% of this planet. I only give a shit about America. It's bad enough the government takes my money to feed Welfare families already.
And those Welfare families would not be mooching off the 'government' lest your government made socioeconomic structures that were not corrupted to begin with.
Bullshit. Make people take responsibility for their own life situations. If you got rid of social handouts, then the parasites would either a.) become productive, b.) become criminals and then go to jail where criminals should be, c.) die.
Okay. Why were they put in place to begin with? Why has this gone on for so long? Why has so much corruption been allowed to happen? Almost like those laws were especially tweaked in just the right way for ulterior reasons.
Also, if everyone were basically provided for in terms of basic survival, you wouldn't have most criminals out there doing crazy shit just to survive that one day.
"Also, if everyone were basically provided for in terms of basic survival, you wouldn't have most criminals out there doing crazy shit just to survive that one day"
Really? I have known quite a few drug dealers who easily make over $100 a day. I make $80 a day. They have nice cars, nice houses, eat at nice restaurants when they want, fill their house with expensive things, and deck their cars out with expensive accessories. I feel SOOOOOOO sorry for them that they are out there having to do criminal activities just to scrape by one day at a time.
"Why were they put in place to begin with?"
I AM THE .0000000000001%! I AM AN INDIVIDUAL WHO TAKES RESPONSIBILITY FOR MY OWN LIFE, AND I SPEAK FOR NO ONE BUT MYSELF.
THIS IS MY STORY.
They chose it for themselves. When I was studying my ass of in elementary and high school, they were busy paying attention to everything else except their education. When I was grinding through college while working a full time job, they decided they didn't need it and wanted money right away, so they went directly into the work force. As I'm getting older, I've saved my money, so that when bad things happen, I have a financial safety net to tide me over; they spent up every dime of their paycheck without once thinking that something could go wrong and they wouldn't have a pot to piss in. When I lost my job, I immediately began putting in resumes and applications to every place that was hiring, instead of running straight to the unemployment office. When I finally got a part-time job making only $7.00 an hour/30 hrs a week, I turned off all the accessories that I had(cable tv, phone, internet). I bought a pay as you go phone for job contacts and kept looking. I made my family eat the cheapest food we could get from the grocery store, saved electricity and hot water, only drove when we had to, and the whole time I continued putting in applications for better paying jobs. While I was only making $7 an hour, we relied on the safety nest egg that I had saved up to make up for the difference in pay. After I finally got a new job, we rebuilt our safety net first BEFORE we stopped living like cavemen. As I get older, I'll continue to save money for my retirement. I'll continue to put some money in 401k, but leave the majority of my money spread around that way if the stock market crashes, I won't loose everything because I had someone else looking over my money. So WHY were THEY put in a bad place to start with? Because the did piss-poor planning of their lives. Instead of getting an education when they had the chance, they pissed that opportunity away. Instead of going to tech school or college, they pissed that opportunity away. Instead of saving their money when they were making it so they would have it when they needed it, they pissed that opportunity away. Finally when they became old and could no longer earn a wage, they looked back and realized that they had pissed away many opportunities that were given to them to make their lives better. I only take risks that I can recover from. They take risks that will bankrupt them if their plan fails. That is what makes ME different from THEY. That is why ME should not have to give any of my money to THEY, whether THEY are the corporations, the homeless bums, or the "unfortunate poor".
I AM THE .0000000000001%! I AM AN INDIVIDUAL WHO TAKES RESPONSIBILITY FOR MY OWN LIFE, AND I SPEAK FOR NO ONE BUT MYSELF.
Wow, dude. You gotta kinda keep a cap on your intensity. It's called a debate, not an fight. I'm just trying to get your opinion.
I'm not talking about those people who, like the corporations and the rich and powerful that Occupy fights against, hoard in all their wealth for no good reason. Just 'cause they don't have an official title doesn't mean they're not like them.
That's pretty sad to hear you went through that. No one should. If I had the means, I would help everyone out. You did nothing wrong and took the high road. This is what I see is wrong when I see people like you being stifled of opportunities because of unchecked systems.
Try to understand me as I have understood you. There are people out there unlike what you have generalized them to be. And there are people out there unlike what many angry citizens generalize wealthy people to be. You are basing your reasons on the idea that there is equal opportunity out there, and that there are more than enough resources and chances to go around. But the fact is is that there is not. I have gone through it myself. I am sincerely qualified and have a clean record but it took me 1 and a half years of looking for a crummy part time job until I found one. My parents' 401k plummetted down these recent years from 80k to 35k. For no reason. Every interview I went to has been a group interview of 10 or more. I see people who have huge credentials and truly deserve a chance at education, and are being denied financial aid. The student loan interests are always rising. I see these programs for Welfare and Medicaid as being something entirely different than what is presented as face value, and there is something very wrong. There is alot of corruption and alot of people out there are corrupted as well.
So, no, again, I'm not saying that you should be forced to do anything. But I do believe something has to happen because what we, as a world, have done so far obviously does not work. I'm not educated enough in economics and politics to start throwing out valuable ideas, but I'm trying to present a new way of looking at things, which can present even newer ways of DOING things.
I have no idea how this will end, and how we will be able to weed through the people who are just looking out for themselves to an unfair degree, but something needs to happen.
"The attitudes that sicken the heart are epidemic around the world.
The underprivileged everywhere must grovel and scrimp to merely stay alive, while the few in power protect and increase great hoards of cash, lie on sheets of silk, and each morning twist bathroom fixtures made of gold. And as emaciated children of ribs and skin die in the arms of weeping mothers, their country’s “leaders” engage in political corruptions which keep donated food stuffs from reaching the starving masses.
No one seems to have the power to alter these conditions, yet the truth is, power is not the problem. No one seems to have the will.
And thus it will always be, so long as no one sees another’s plight as his own."
There will come a day, either in this life or another, when you will desperately need someone to care for you, to feed you and clothe you, and you will have no one. That feeling should drive you to never let another feel it.
"There will come a day, either in this life or another, when you will desperately need someone to care for you, to feed you and clothe you, and you will have no one. That feeling should drive you to never let another feel it."
No, because you see I have family and friends. I have people that I give my own money, time, and resources to when they are in need. THAT'S MY CHOICE. If they decide not to return the favor in my time of need, then shame on them, but they do not HAVE to do so. I have no problem helping those who need help. What I have a problem with is people like you TELLING me that I HAVE to.
When I was born, I was naked, weak, frail, and completely at the whim of whatever circumstance I was born into. My parents did not HAVE to take care of me. They could have dumped me in a trashcan somewhere. Nobody owed me anything when I was born. Furthermore, I owed no-one anything just because I was alive. Why has that changed? What place do I have to say that anyone owes me anything, so long as they have not taken it from me? What place do you or any other person have to tell me that I owe someone else anything, unless I have already taken it from them?
No, why would I ever force you to do anything? Force would never foster sincerity. And I believe these lives are meaningless anyways, but that wouldn't stop me from wanting to provide for this whole planet. But that's my own fuckin choice. Just like it's yours to do whatever you want.
All I'm trying to point out to you is that there may be something larger in terms of the purpose of our lives here and the existence of these universes. And in understanding it spiritually, not just physically and mentally, you might come to understand (or perhaps you don't, since everyone has their own truth) that we all are not seperated. Meditate on this one concept for hours and you might find an even larger truth-that we all are One, but Many. Of the same stuff.
If we all are of the same stuff, then it is only concluded that to do good for another is like doing good for yourself. Another concept that you might find interesting is to try to see this whole planet as your family, of the human kind. Not just by blood, but by DNA.
No one should ever be forced to do anything at all. It is unnatural. But the very fact that some of us have to be forced to do something that's right is what I find primitive. No one sees that if we treated eachother as family on this world and provided for eachother, loved one another and respected eachother, spoke the truth and found our pleasures in other areas than physicality, that most of the atrocities going on now wouldn't ever have been possible. It's not about "owing" or being forced to do something, it's about that the "force" shouldn't even have to be equipped. It's more like a loving responsibility one takes upon oneself, at his or her own will. That would be a fleeting thing if more than enough people took up that kind of responsibility and perspective of the world.
Also, I'm not here to argue with you or change your opinion. I'm presenting my own. What you do about it is, obviously, your decision. If everyone were provided for in terms of day-to-day survival (not like the 'breadwinners' that I keep hearing about) then each person would have a grand opportunity to focus on higher evolving ideas and actions, and people would be allowed to do things they actually enjoy, or work for a drive other than being a slave to provide for your family, or doing things to better each individual, or finding enlightenment or other things, whatever. The fact of the matter is is that we have been stunted in our spiritual growth due to the physical and mental stresses that keep piling up.
To take the stand of providing universal healthcare, free college tuition, welfare, medicaid, medicare, food stamps, taxpayer funded college tuition, ect, ect IS to take the stand that it is ok to take MY money and give to someone else. If those are the things that you believe in, then you also believe it is ok to force me to pay for someone else. Though you may hide that belief behind the veil that YOU are not forcing me into providing for someone else, the fact still stands. When you agree with your government taxing me and then using those taxes like some kind of charity to bail out other "unfortunate" people, then how can you stand opposed to that same government giving my money away to the CEO's of a company? The CEO's are people too, and the corporations are nothing more than groups of people.
I say no person, group, or society should be allowed to FORCE me into handing over my money to take care of another person or group of people. To me it does not matter if that person or group is on the low rung of the socioeconomic ladder, or if that person or group is on the high rung.
I'm against bailouts PERIOD. I'm against bailing out the poor just as much as bailing out the rich. The government has no just right to play the role of robin hood by stealing from me and giving that money to someone else.
Didn't I just say I don't condone any type of force? If I had it my way, everyone would have the choice to donate 10% of their annual income to support government programs that help the needy. But that would be their choice.
Also, we wouldn't even have to use our own money if we just stopped international warfare and stopped funding defense systems. The money saved from that alone could cover everything.
Again. I don't condone force. But continue to believe whatever you want. It is, after all, your right.
to Joeschmoe1000: "Also, we wouldn't even have to use our own money if we just stopped international warfare and stopped funding defense systems. The money saved from that alone could cover everything."
Cool :)
well then in that case I agree with you.
er....
if we don't use our own money, who's would we use???
WTF?
I protest because I am tired of watching friends and family die because they cannot afford medication or health care. I am sickened by watching the lines at the food bank stretch across the road because people can't afford food. I am disgusted by watching good people who work and try to pay their bills being thrown out on the street because they cannot pay their mortgage payment. I am fed up with people not caring about other people and worrying about their own material gains to the exclusion of all else. I am frustrated by being blocked at every turn trying to get people to listen that we need social, political and economic reform. I realize that I am only one person, I cannot change the way the world thinks alone, but together, people who feel like me can make a difference. We can force laws to change, we can make others aware of the basic human condition and the ways that we can improve it. I add my voice here because maybe with one more voice, people will listen.
One more voice here!!!
well said
You actually, literally watch friends and family members die because they can't afford medication or health care? Multiple people you love have died for those reasons? Did you tell them about "emergency rooms"? You just watched them die? Why didn't you help them? Is it because you are poor or unemployed? It seems if you go get work then you could help them. But that might cut into your protesting time... bummer. And you actually literally watch food bank lines stretch across the street? You are fed up with people caring more about themselves than others? Really? I call that normal. I care about myself more than I care about you. I think if I cared more about you than myself that would indicate some sort of mental disorder... lack of self-preservation or something.
I wonder who abandoned you as a child.
This is an extremely derogative statement. Sir respectively, you are being an asshole, and an ignorant one at that.
To get Money out of Politics,
thus no influence from corporations,
thus our politicians can work in a noise free environment.
Well, while I agree that corporations shouldn't influence politics, you're not going to get money out of politics.
how about limit contributions to only individuals not exceeding say $100/year
well that is a good idea, but you forget that money is not only greenbacks. Money is anything of value.
And you can do that as long the face value of the item do not exceed $100. And that include every gift/goodwill that the politician received.
It seems that a major thrust of OWS is to wrest power from the corporations and return it to the people. How do you achieve that?
The Supreme Court has removed roadblocks for the Corporations in their quest to controlling congress through virtually unlimited campaign contributions. How do we counter that? By eliminating campaigns!
No one in Washington should ever be running for re-election. All Senators, Congressmen and yes, the President should be limited to one single term, albeit longer than current terms.
Yes, at the conclusion of terms, Congressional and Presidential elections will still be influenced by campaign contributions, but once elected, incumbents would not be vulnerable to bribery.
Sure they would. What about the congressman who wants to be president someday? And what happens if you finally find somebody halfway decent and want him/her to serve more than one term? (Try not to laugh...) This is at least a more concrete proposal than most of what I see on this forum, though.
the politicians are not responding to the people
I want kids to have a life in a fair economy and a free society to look forward to. I do not want them to have to work at a job that is not what they enjoy because the industry that they would enjoy working in doesn't exist in this country to buy an overpriced house and pay over half of what they can earn at a job they hate just to have a bunch of crooks take it all away from them in a fake democracy that has only specific interest owned apathetic leaders to chose from.
the government lacks ambition
Since when does industry create itself simply to serve the desires of your children? That's pretty selfish. You are free to start a business. In most states it costs less than 200-300 to do all the paperwork.
....I'm a little confused because our society is not free. In fact it is the exact opposite. Most laws are not designed to give you freedom, they are designed to take away your freedom. Secondly, the US is not, nor has it ever been a democracy.
You seem to be confused about the freedom that this country provides. You have the freedom to choose your destiny. To educate yourself and pursue any endeavor that you wish. The catch is...you must work for it. No one will hand you a dream. Earn it.
On the other point...you are correct. We live in a representative repuplic not a democracy.
No human can "provide" you freedom. They can only choose to leave you to your freedom, or attempt to take it from you. Ultimately though, it is truly only up to the individual to relinquish their own freedom.
Freedom is the ONLY unalienable "right"(though I despise that word) that you have.
Rather than address my point, you've chosen to critique my use of the word "provide". The fact remains...the opportunity available to the citizens of the USA is something that millions would risk their lives to have.
Oh, no. I totally agree with you. Don't get me wrong. I think that everyone should be completely free, so long as they are not purposely harming another person. I think it is up to each individual to take responsibility for their own lives.
Unfortunately you're right on both counts.
Because more than 10% of the country is outs of work. Everything is made in China. I'm sick of it. We send our money overseas to grow Chinas middle class and the 1% exports our jobs to make more profits. We need jobs!!! We need to boycott imported goods Buy Made in the USA!!!!
The problem with fixing the old MADE IN USA thing is that we americans are being conditioned by the feds with a sense of entitlement more and more than ever in history. People all want the government to take care of them and think that if they have to work hard they are somehow being taken advantage of! We think the rich wall st. fat cats should be paying for stuff for us. Labor unions are killing the USA. KILLING us. More entitlement. Union workers get paid way more than average working Joes, they have ridiculous benefits, and all they do is complain they don't have enough and need more more more. I can't wait until every job in the USA is a union job and it costs $58 to eat a burger at McDonald's. Then you can't carry the food to a table yourself, the union guy has to carry it to the table for you. Unfortunately he's on his 7th break. He'll get you your food in about 45 minutes. When Americans are as eager to work as the Chinese, we'll take our own jobs back.
Someone watches FoxNews. I'm surprised there wasn't a "paid for by the Herman Cainne Admin" statement right at the end of this. Dude, we're passed the bickering about where it's union or corporate. It's a socioeconomic problem, and we can't just magnify the union problem.
I'm not protesting; I'm just sending them money and bringing them food and extra clothing because I have a disability that prevents me from spending much time out there...plus I have a full-time job.
But I support the protesters because my bff is disabled but can't even get disability yet some people in this country want to reduce benefits for the poor.
I support the protesters because one of my acquaintances complains because she has to pay taxes for "losers" who want free health care while I'm paying taxes for HER kids to go to school when I don't have any kids.
I support the protesters because some of my friends have been people who have worked their asses off all their lives but can't even afford health insurance these days and one of them got cervical cancer because she didn't have the money to go to a doctor regularly to get simple pap smear and she works harder than any of these parasite pigs who think of HER as a parasite and call people in her position lazy and worthless and ... whatever else they call them.
I support the protesters because I have friends who try as hard as they can possibly try but they just can't "make it" because they have mental/emotional illnesses or physical disabilities that science hasn't been able to diagnose yet and then silver-spoon scum call them lazy!
I support the protesters because I've worked 60 hour weeks since I was 16 years old (I'm 54) and society has changed all the rules of retirement so that I'm worried about whether or not I'll be able to afford a place to live, or relief for the constant pain I suffer or even be able to eat when I retire.
I support the protesters because I hear political people constantly, GROSSLY, mis-characterizing the arguments of their opponents in ways that are just beyond SiCK! Like Herman Cain saying that liberals killed Jesus!) EXCUSE ME! My father would be considered a liberal by those SCUM yet he is a devout Catholic and THE (THE!!) most generous person I've ever heard of next to Mother Theresa!!
Is that enough? I could go on.
Actually, one more thing. I think more than anything else, I'm pissed because 3/4 of my coworkers got laid off because my company needed higher profits and now I'm getting bonuses because they lost their jobs!!!
I agree, you shouldn't have to pay into the public education system since you don't have children.
Don't be ridiculous. Society is like insurance. We should all contribute to help one another.
I used to believe like you (I was a Libertarian for over 20 years) but now I understand that we are all a part of society and need to help one another.
What? I was agreeing with you. You were indignant because someone complained that they had to pay for the health care of losers; yet, you have to pay for her kids public education.
I totally agree with you. You shouldn't have to pay for her kids education no more than she should have to pay for the health care of others.
You're being disingenuous. That's not what I was saying. I suspect you know that and are being purposely disingenuous but I can't prove it, so I won't make the accusation.
The point is, I'm pissed at HER for thinking like that, not at the fact that I have to pay taxes for children to go to school.
Well I don't know what disingenuous means, so I can't admit or deny that.
Do you want to know the reasons for those who aren't physically protesting but are supporting them financially and philosophically?
Yes
I choose to protest, to voice my opinion. It being simply because we as members of the human race have and can do better. We can not allow the worst traits to become the rule, namely greed, violence, enslavement, etc.
I protest because things are wrong, and too long I've sat down and watched them without participating. I protest because I, too, have ideas that are worth considering. The sidelines are not for me anymore, I protest because I want to make a difference (on many issues).
Like my ancestors before me and as an example to the generations to follow me, I protest because it's the right thing to do.
One problem I see is that us common folk pretty much agree that the rich are getting richer and not paying their fair share. However, when I talk with my coworkers, friends, etc. they don't know why. I explain to them and then they understand so I made a site to explain the why (like Why are the "Job Creators" not paying their fair share of taxes, etc.) JobCreatorsMyAss.com
I protest because the bank has taken advantage of me. They are stealing my money. I am protesting for my hundreds of clients who are thrown into foreclosure which is like a lions den. I am protesting to make a difference.I am protesting because I want to to take down the federal reserve and fu-fill it with something more resourceful.
Let's get our jobs back.
Buy American. If you aren't sure - ask. Also look all over the packaging for "Made in __" Packaging may say "Made in America" but also have another tag that indicate that it was also made in another country.
Here is a list of the top outsourcing companies: http://www.iaop.org/content/23/152/1197/ If you deal with the American companies - stop and find another vendor.
E-Mail:
Write one e-mail to your elected officials telling them you are unhappy with the job they are doing. You can find their addresses here: http://www.usa.gov/Contact/Elected.shtml
Send one e-mail to the mayor of your town stating you do not want your taxpayer dollars to be given companies, pro-sporting facilities, etc. while classrooms are underfunded and overcrowded.
Send one e-mail to the "Letter to the Editor" telling how fed up you are with they way politics and your taxpayer dollars are being handled.
When you contact customer service and someone with an accent answers ask if they are in America. If not, this person is working while some unemployed American is out of work Also, do you really want to give personal information to someone living in another country?
Take this entire post and e-mail it to friends and ask them to help and to e-mail it to their friends.
Thank you,
You have just helped change America
I don't want my tax money going to education either. Not my place to pay for someone else's education.
The problem is if you don't pay for it, you will pay for it. The better educated a society is the healthier and more productive they are. The better education children have the less likely they are to become violent criminals. Healthier means less tax dollars going to help sick children whose mother didn't have access to prenatal care. Education is the quickest way out of the mess this country has been bogged down in for years.
You say you don't want to pay for education. Next time you get a "mix-up" on a statement and talk to someone you know hasn't got a clue as to what they are doing, remember this is the byproduct of poor education. You have to deal with it. I have to deal with it. I'd rather not.
Sweden pays for schooling THROUGH college! Take a look at its economy and it's standard of living. Sweds are urging immigration to do the jobs Sweds are no longer wiling to do because they have money. That is what education does.
Well, let Sweden do as Sweden wants to do, but your logic could be applied to everything.
We should have a federal fat tax on everyone. The money from the fat tax should go to helping fat people diet because if you don't pay for it, you'll pay for it. Obesity causes a variety of diseases, which raises the price of insurance. Additionally, Obesity related illnesses result in lost productivity, which is bad for the economy.
We should have a federal alcohol tax on everyone, and the proceeds should go to putting alchoholics into AA
We should have a federal drug tax on everyone and the proceeds should go to putting drug addicts through rehab.
We should have a federal accident tax on everyone and the proceeds should go to caring for people who have been in accidents.
Oh wait, here's a much easier and better solution. Everyone take responsibility for their own selves, and if they personally feel like taking care of someone else's education, healthcare, housing, food, then let them personally give their money up.
Just read yesterday that some drug-addict bastard is getting welfare down in Florida, but Florida cannot force him to take a drug-test because that would "violate" his civil rights. You know what, when you are living off of the hard-earned money of your neighbors, you shouldn't have any civil rights. If you don't want to contribute to society, then you shouldn't get any direct benefits from society.
Well, let Sweden do as Sweden wants to do
Yeah, good economy, low poverty level and educated populous, nothing to consider there.
No one is talking about adults, but giving CHILDREN a better life so we can have a better country. So THEY could contribute more and more to society. So there is less and less homelessness, etc. down the line.
But, hey what do I care. My husband and I don't have any grandchildren and never will so if this country is screwed up and children growing up now will have much less than I have so what? Right?
My point is that education, like many things, should be left to the individual States to govern, not the Federal government.
"Though I have the ability to pass a law on this, is it my place to do so? Should this decision be left to me to make? Should this decision be left to the States? Should this decision be left to the city? Should this decision be left to the individual person?"
Perhaps if our elected representatives at all levels of government would reflect on this thought before passing laws, then things would be better.
Perhaps further, if they would reflect on what the Constitution has to say about the things the vote on without trying to "interpret" the Constitution to fit their goals, things would be better.
At no time have I ever suggested that the federal government take over running the school system in this country. If you reread my post you will see I specifically requested that people contact their mayor. That is local government, not federal.
Sorry, must have missed that post.
Why are you here?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86SV6q0osT8&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcreicbCd4Y&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5QAZXrEU7s&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5DGL89zB70&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MndpYcWoZgU&feature=related
More on www.jolpress.com
I protest because after 13 1/2 years with my company, I've been getting bonuses for the last 2 years (for the first time).
This is Occupy Wall St in a nutshell:
http://youtu.be/AzULm4d8h8w
Not to mention the generations to come, which will suffer because of our unsustainability, ignorance, and fear.
http://therevolutionarytruth.tumblr.com/post/11716755629/occupy-wall-street-a-nations-cry-for-change
i protest because it is my right as an american to stand up when i see my country being sold and polluted and its people dying in the streets. i am tired of injustice. i am tired of pollution. i am tired of poverty. and i am really tired of war. this is the only way i can see to add my voice to the many saying STOP -- i want a better country -- and a better world will follow
we need to be in control of the government
Cause you support the unions poluting our democracy with money.
Funny, I asked why YOU support the protest and you ASSUME you know anything about me.
You've coopted with them
You're an idiot.
Whatever
I graduated with a masters degree in 2000 at age 29. At this time some "bubble" was bursting and gas prices were on the rise and California was just realize the extent that they had been ripped off by Enron. It took me until 2005 to find a full time job. During the 5 years I worked part time as much as I could but never had health insurance. My wife and I wanted to have a kid but had to wait.
Once I got a job, I settled in and bought a house in 2006. Finally we could start our family, and we did. Soon however it became clear the house I bought was a "bubble" too. Now, I've lost a huge amount of money and am underwater. To make things worse, my wife was laid off for a year in 2009.
Nonetheless, I consider myself lucky. For one, I financed the house through a credit union and they were able to work with me and reduce the interest rate. Also, I have a steady job, union even. So I can stick it out. Someday my daughter will benefit, I hope.
But, just because I am relatively lucky, does not mean that I am oblivious to the pain of others. Also, I don't buy that these "bubbles" are just natural accidents. It's a fact that somebody is getting rich every time one bursts. Then, in the wake of the mayhem they created they have the nerve to collect record bonuses and demand austerity.
If it is allowed to go on like this I don't know if my daughter will ever benefit.
indeed they may have never really "lost" the money in the first place
please include in your demands and end to the genocidal, neocolonialist war of aggression on Africa - Libya is just a stepping stone http://nsnbc.wordpress.com/ http://panafricannews.blogspot.com/2011/10/us-nato-war-in-libya-meets-ongoing.html
bombs are messy
What the hell are you talking about?
I am not one of the protesters, but I want to educate people on economics and how wealth comes into existence. I guess that is my part in the movement because most people do not sit back and think about money and wealth. What I am talking about, in laymens terms, is how we can attack the source of wealth through land. The theory of economic rent has been around for some time, but land taxation has seldom been implemented throughout history. It is well known that the factors of production are composed of land, labor and capital. Land, in the economic sense, can be explained as anything with a productive capacity that has not been created by men or women, but has value created by the community. Labor is any human energy spent , whether by the mind or through brute force, that contributes to a means of production. Capital is mainly what is spent from savings for future production. Under the current system, mainly labor and capital are taxed, while the landed elite make out like bandits with the rents that are created by the community! It is no surprise that civilizations have suffered from vast inequalities since the founding of the first governments.
What we need to fight for is a redistribution of these economic rents for the sake of the people, while at the same time reducing the tax rates on labor and capital. These rents from land are the source of all wealth and are presently held by a small number of wealthy people who will speculate and slow there productive capacity in order to increase profits.
This demand goes out to the people of OWS! If there is one thing we need to change in order to promote equality, environmental protection and job creation through increased productive capacity, this is the solution we need. Please read about economic rent and land taxation in order to fully grasp the concept.
This is something proven in theory and not based on anyone's personal opinion or ideology. While we are divided on many things, it's time to come together with some real demands to benefit the majority of unrepresented individuals of the world. Lets show the top 1% that we know where their unearned wealth is coming from and that we know exactly what is needed in order to bring them back to the real world!
Couldn't the "fight for is a redistribution of these economic rents" be considered as Interest Income as described in this plan at: http://getsatisfaction.com/americanselect/topics/on_strategically_weighted_policies_organizational_operating_structures_tactical_investment_procedures-448eo
I have read all similar proposals such as this one and I do advocate some type of system like this. But, this is seperate from the land reform I talked about above. Where these parallel banks would increase people's individual incomes through profits, the land tax would take the inefficiencies out of our tax system and make full use of the land and resources we have. I do like the above idea though, but it is a seperate topic.
Assuming the above Socioeconomic Reforms were instituted as described in the our plan, then we have further proposals for switching the tax system to a value-added sales tax not to exceed 25% of GDP at the Business, Town, County, State, National, and International Levels. This would have the effect of taxing neither capital nor labor nor land, but tax only consumption, not production, and thus encourage savings and investment as a result of our plan's 25% Individual Reinvestment Rate within every Individual Product Purchase a person makes (which is separate from the VA tax). Why? Because this 25% Individual Reinvestment Rate applied as an Additional Capital Contribution to their Town Bank can be applied either by the 1% (as it is today, and only to their benefit) or can be applied to within every Individual Product Purchase a worker makes (as proposed, and thus to make the reinvestment of financial benefit directly to each worker, and not just the 1%). Bottom line, you don't have to have incentives for workers to consume, and so you tax it, but you do have provide workers a strong incentive to invest in production (more land, labor, capital), and so you don't tax it in their wages, but only tax their consumption (which they are going to do anyway), agreed?
Now would this VAT be applied to energy, food and water? I've never liked the idea of VAT because it is a tax that will affect the lower class people the most. And while it does not directly tax labor, it is an indirect tax on savings. This tax would end up taxing a larger percentage of income for the poor. The poor spends nearly all of there income trying to survive, so taxing the poor the same amount for each product as the rich doesn't seem right. Almost their entire income is going to comsumption. I feel LVT is a much better tax since it doesn't capture anything that people worked for, but only captures value from nature.
Agreed, that's why I said that the socioeconomic reforms defined in our group's plan would need to be implemented FIRST in order to DOUBLE the Wealth & Income of the 99% as Bank Owner-Voters, and therein as Business Owner-Voters, and thus reallocate that 2/3 of today's Wealth & Income currently owned (or controlled, indirectly) by the 1% BEFORE instituting any VAT reform to strongly encourage investment in production while at the same time somewhat discouraging over-consumption, and thus creating a truly conservative mind-set among the people with regard to consumption, making them deliberately look for ever more efficient solutions in consumption by investing heavily in automated, lower-cost, lower-work, production, such as RBE.
We're sick and tired of living in a system that denies us the ability to earn a living wage simply because it does not fit into the agenda of those who control the system: the super-wealthy and the corporate "personhood." Consider: Unemployment is at an all-time high yet people are willing and eager to work. The factories exist, the farms exist, the forests and the fisheries all exist. By any account we could work if we could have access to the means of production. But we can't!
Why? Because those who own the means of production do not see a way for them to make a profit from our labor!
Maybe not everyone would articulate it in such a way but the fundamental argument is the same: The few control the system and use it for their own self-enrichment at the expense of everyone else and we're not going to take it anymore.
We demand to be treated fairly!
I was wondering why there were no projects for bounty of excess labor available
no profit in it
If you think companies should employ people regardless of whether they make any profit then why not just set up your own company and employ people on that basis thus creating employment for people?
Me, personally? For one thing it would be impossible because I have no factories or fields in which to employ people. I do not own the means of production. Nor do I have the cash to obtain said means.
If I wanted to own the means of production I would have to get a loan from a bank (which is an entity which produces profit by being able to control the flow of money. That is, they get rich because everyone else is poor).But hey, if I did that then it would be my bank that owns the means of production, not me, and you'll be having to produce to fill their coffers. Oh yeah, and they're not going to give me money to buy a factory if they don't think I'm going to turn a profit from your labor.
See the problem here?
But that's not the point. If we want to see institutional change then we need to change the rules by which this game is played.
Wow!! You really don't have a clue. You must be very young or simply naive. You don't need a factory or a farm to open a business. You need skills, work ethic and a product or service that is in demand. Get to work!!
Like Luther
I protest mainly because I am constipated
And want to get laid more frequently.
I protest cuz it's more funner than going to work
For one, we protest because our efforts as the Bottom 99% of Workers are not justly and equitably rewarded, so perhaps you would consider our group's proposal of an alternative online direct democracy of government and business at http://getsatisfaction.com/americanselect/topics/on_strategically_weighted_policies_organizational_operating_structures_tactical_investment_procedures-448eo , hit the facebook “like” button if agreed, and then join our group's 20 members committed to that plan at http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/StrategicInternationalSystems/
First: No, I do not accept a direct democracy as a viable solution. If this country were a direct democracy, the majority would rule, while the minority would suffer. Second: you cannot speak for "we" as much as OWS can speak for the "99%"
You can only speak for yourself, not anyone else.
Third: Workers agree to the pay that they are given. You argument that you are not justly and equitably rewarded would be the same as the following example:
Jack goes to Joe and asks if he can cut his grass for $100. Joe says, "That's way too high, but I will give you $20 to cut my grass." Jack says, "OK, I guess I'll take it then." After payment Jack runs to Mary and says, "That Joe is a low-balling SOB. He only paid me $20 to cut his grass."
If Jack didn't want to do it for $20, then he should have just said, "Nevermind Joe, I can get more money from someone else." Then he would have gone to someone else to request $100 to do the yard work. The fact that he accepted the payment means he agreed with it. Because he agreed with it, he gave up the right to complain that the price was too low. It would be the same as buying a TV for $700, then complaining that the price was too high.
First: No, I do not accept a direct democracy as a viable solution. If this country were a direct democracy, the majority would rule, while the minority would suffer.
Let go of your emotion and actually read and critically think through the proposal before you respond, for if you did then you would see that it is "minorities" as represented by 48 Business Investment Groups of "new" Business Owner-Voters, like yourself, that would set all Policies, Organizations, and Procedures from small-business-bottom-up, not big-business-top-down. So please, for just a moment, suspend all emotional judgement and apply your logical reasoning skills, for I'm sure you have them in abundance if you let your anger go.
Second: you cannot speak for "we" as much as OWS can speak for the "99%" You can only speak for yourself, not anyone else.
I speak as 1 of 20 Members in support of our group's plan, and many of them have already made significant changes to it as a result of questions asked by members seeking clarification, so please, again, let go of you anger for a moment and look at the proposal logically.
As for the rest of your reply, I agree, this is simple economic reasoning that still doesn't address the deeper mathematical and technical nature of our group's plan, so again, I don't want to argue with you for argument's sake, for our objective to seek logical agreement, fair enough?