Forum Post: I have yet to see any response to this whole thing from any corporation...
Posted 12 years ago on Sept. 28, 2011, 8:47 p.m. EST by IDK
(21)
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How has this movement negatively impacted them in any way? I can't see anything that would warrant more than a "oh those crazy kids" at the water cooler. Sure, some "awareness" might have been raised, but 99% of "the 99%"...well I don't want to say "don't care" but...they aren't really interested. I happened to be at Union doing some shopping on Saturday, and when the mob came through nobody had any idea what you guys were about.
This was posted on 9/28 I bet a lot more shoppers have a lot better idea what is happening now.
And you won't. But you can bet they already are working on contingency plans incase this thing grows, which I hope it does.
"They" recall fondly Kent State University, circa May 1970. Don't think "they" won't.
I'd like to see some specific examples of the "they"
and contingency plans? What do you think "they" would do if this grows?
And you won't. But you can bet they already are working on contingency plans incase this thing grows, which I hope it does.
Nor will we see a response from a corporation for some time. And when we do, it will be token capitulation bullshit. This means we are just starting to win. Do not believe whatever they put on the table first. Not for a second.
No what I mean is I don't think you guys are doing anything that would get them remotely interested in doing anything. They have no reason to do anything but ignore you.
Oh yeah I'm well aware what you meant. Thank you for the concern troll, as with all the others. I guess we better just quit.
So how am I trolling?
I'm just stating my observations as an impartial outside observer who happen to witness what went down at Union Square the other day and got a bit curious as to why there was an angry mob running down the street that almost trampled my friend and I.
yep. So. How do we market ourselves effectively to the other 99 percent of the 99 percent? That should be whats on everyones minds. This forum epic fails to do that, its bleeding newbies out by the hundreds, it could be growing exponentially instead people come, see the scrawl, leave, or try to chat, and find nothing substantive, and leave.
I think this is how we do it: https://occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-list-of-demands-please-help-editadd-so-th/
thats not working so hot from my pov what if we started using pirate pad?
Actually it's starting to gain some traction I think....at least a bit. I think the best thing I can do (with the help of anyone who thinks the list is good) is continue to hone it to make it high quality. I'm hoping that quality and easily digestible setup can help the word spread organically. I think people are hungry for specific list of demands and tactics that will result in those demands being met. I feel like that hunger is palpable around the country.
several suggestions i made seemed to go right over your head. (??)
Which ones? Can you copy them here?
https://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10150398121910833
I went to my Post Office today and my Grocery Store and when I brought up the OWS protests, they squinted at me like I was from another planet. No one in my town is even remotely aware that this is happening. I agree with GandhiKing-- the whole Country will take notice when this movement MOVES to Washington D.C. Move the damn thing NOW!!!
Protests go on in DC all the time. Nobody really notices them there anymore. Its a nice symbolic thing for the participants though.
Well, I was thinking of something along the lines of 10 Million people in Washington D.C. Now, that might get noticed.
Sure. But be realistic. You're not getting 0.03% of the US population in DC for a protest.
Or probably anything.
Matter of fact that would probably destroy most of the city and surrounding areas.
I know. But wouldn't that be impressive to watch. he he
Well as someone who went down for that Jon Stewart/Colbert thing last year of 50k people or so in the city...not really.
That was enough to completely cripple the city.
I know it seems a bit 'radical' on my part. But, maybe that is what needs to be done-- to make Congress finally get their shit together.
That's because we haven't used non-violent direct action yet. Here's my proposed list of DEMANDS FOR DC RALLY (almost all relate to reigning in Wall Street). I also include tactics -- https://occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-list-of-demands-please-help-editadd-so-th/
That is an interesting list. I'd like to see more of a "who, what, when, where, and why" though. Basically a bunch of specific examples - shown in as neutral light as possible - as to why those issues need reform.
Hmmmmm. I was trying to keep it "short". Maybe that should go in an appendix?
Probably.
I'd really like to emphasize the fact that it has to be a neutral as possible. I know that if I was reading something like that and starting seeing slanted things I'd just roll my eyes and go do something else.
Umm, why should corporations or "too-big-to-fails" deign to notice you?
Privatize profit and socialize debts for banks.
And you are... who?
What's the value of your asset?
I'm a nobody. My value as an asset is determined by what I can do for society as a whole. Banks and megacorps have no reason to know me as anything more than a demographic.
Wait till this is in about every major city in america.. then they will start talking around the water cooler about it.
People need to clear there heads, stay persistent and don't let the first week get to the head of supporters. We have a long way to go and we are going to come up against alot of adversity.
Stay strong, and dont let your guard down!
Honestly I'd be surprised if you guys make it past winter. This whole thing reminds me a lot of Anonymous's Scientology thing - go strong for a few months then infighting and disinterest eventually cause the whole thing to fade away into an interesting footnote.
winter? you are optimistic. I bet support weans and they are down to less than 100 supporters in 2 weeks if they can't get a simple message for people to rally behind. right now its a list of 13 mostly unrelated injustices that sound like things we used to talk about while getting high in college... just a bunch of malcontent hippies that don't think of anyone outside of their would-be commune members. The average American will not have any respect for this leaderless disorganized mess. And they are on borrowed time as it is, setting up in a park that is on private land, the park owners won't let it go on too much longer and then what?
Exactly. I saw that list and its just so...ugh...
i'm not sure that "official" list is official... i like ghandikingmindset's list as it focuses on megacorp and wallstreet, not social issues so much.
i agree it isn't ideal but it is the one that the people on the ground at the protest have developed and we can't seem to get any connection from the forum to the ground...
thats because the protesters don't know what they are protesting about. if there was a single clear concise message people might give a shit, people might have some respect for the movement, the media might pay attention, and the protesters might make some kind of meaningful statement.
I actually feel sorry for them sometimes when I see the videos. They are not eating well. They are not sleeping well. They aren't taking showers. They probably are exhausted and 'dazed' by the whole process. You got to hand it to them, though. This could be the start of something 'big' or 'bigger' in the future. What they need is $1 million dollar sponsor to supply them with food and trailers.
I really respect the drive of these guys and their willingness to act on their feelings, but I still can't understand the need for this thing to be "leaderless". And surely somebody will chime in here with a "you just don't get it" message for me. and they are right... I don't. Leadership is only bad when the leader wants to screw you. Organization is not something to run from....
Well put.
That's an interesting point. So far, looking in from the outside, this seems like a group of leftists looking for an excuse to go out and protest their pet issue.
I thought, when I first heard about it, that it would be a group of people protesting the influence of large corporations on our political system. Asking for things like the reversal of corporate personhood and an end to lobbying practices and campaign finance reform. But instead it has turned into just what you said. They are on Wall Street protesting for women's rights and to forgive student loan debt, end the war on drugs, national ban on death penalty among other things.
Well, I look at what you are proposing npowell85. And I look at what GandhiMindset is proposing. And you guys have some very good concrete ideas that are feasible. The OWS people seem to be taking a 'esoteric' approach to their cause that is too broad to argue with Washington D.C. It's too bad that they are not adding you guys to their TEAM during this process. Women's Rights? It's 2011. Women's Rights?
I think if we work together, join efforts and spread the word as virally as possible, something could happen here. I'm game if you are. https://occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-list-of-demands-please-help-editadd-so-th/
i'm down with having a legit debate about our differences of opinion, but it clearly will take us some time to get on a level enough ground to present any ideas that would be made as a group. just because we have a very different approach, as I'm sure you have seen
I lived in Montana for a year and a half so we have something in common. Bozeman for a while and then I lived in the middle of the Tobacco Root Mountains handstripping logs for log cabins. Some of the best times of my life.
i went to school at MSU in Bozeman. I loved it. Great city. I live in Great Falls it's more central. Tobacco root it way northwest isn't it?
Tobacco Roots are about an hour west of Bozeman. Beautiful place. Very remote. MSU is cool place. I still have a few friends out there. Good people. Good place. Never been to Great Falls. I was pretty poor when I lived in MT so didn't get to travel much. Gas $ was spent on food instead. I intend to go back to Bozeman someday soon for a visit.
I hope you make it. Its really grown recently, the town goes pretty much from Belgrade to Four Corners to Bozeman, if you remember those places. Really booming, or it was until the construction collapsed a year or so ago. Theres a thread called " essay about our cause" or something like that.. you should check it out.. good stuff
I'm on board. I'll do my best to keep up with you...
patriot - you should read the thread "essay about our cause" or something along those lines... its really well done
OK. I'll check that out now. Thanks.
Dude. Thanks for your support.
You're welcome. Right now I'm fighting off a dozen women who are pissed off at me for telling them to remove Women's Rights from the official List of Demands. It's all in good fun. But YOUR ideas I take very serious. Excellent work my friend.
thanks for your vote of confidence. I know right... women's rights....
Even then I'm not totally sure why corporate personhood is seen as a bad thing. How else are corporations suppose to protect themselves in court? Sure, it could probably use some reforms but to say it is an inherently bad thing is just a complete misunderstanding of what corporations are, especially outside of the megacorp levels.
Obviously lots of good places to get info but if you watch the award winning documentary "The Corporation" there's some great info on this. It's fascinating. If I remember correctly, way corporations won personhood was by bastardizing a Supreme Court decision related to freeing slaves or personhood / rights of former slaves. Amazingly, the law was used rarely to help former slaves and used about a hundred times more often to protect corporations.
I've seen it. It was horribly biased against the corporations from what I do recall. It was awhile ago so I can't really cite specific examples. I remember the monotone computer generated sounding narrator though that gave a nice subtle negative spin to it.
Giving them rights as individuals isn't necessary in my view. We are capable of altering our constitution to allow for them to adequately defend themselves as what they are, and to provide some broad rights and regulations for businesses. And that would insure, since a 2/3's vote is required in both houses, that whatever comes out is agreeable and hopefully represents the best interest of the majority. I'm not a politician, I haven't studied the subject in-depth, but as an American and business person I can definitely say, with certainty, that some type of reform is needed.
Obviously lots of good places to get info but if you watch the award winning documentary "The Corporation" there's some great info on this. It's fascinating. If I remember correctly, way corporations won personhood was by bastardizing a Supreme Court decision related to freeing slaves or personhood / rights of former slaves. Amazingly, the law was used rarely to help former slaves and used about a hundred times more often to protect corporations.
I do want to learn some more about the subject. I'll check that out. Thanks for the recomendation
What particular rights do you think corporations should not have that a real person does? Its not like they can vote in elections as it is.
I'm just curious.
I know they can't now. But with the balls on some of these CEO's someday they will try. They will say, well the supreme court said we are people, so why can't we vote? and why can't we have the right to bare arms? Maybe this is one subject on which I am a bit unrealistic and maybe its just that I am ignorant on this particular subject. I just can't understand the assertion that they are people, and don't see why we cannot develop a sort of "business bill of rights" if you will. One that outlines just what they can and cannot do, and maybe has built in protections for the people who invest in them, and outlines some very broad environmental responsibilities. I don't protest to know just how it should be set up, but I think in that sort of scenario, with having part of it attached to the constitution the really important regulations like not playing games with people's retirement and not polluting our water couldn't be so easily tampered with and no business could be excluded from them.
Well, at least from my understanding, corporate personhood only goes so far as to the right to own property, IP policing, ect, legal stuff like that. That kind of stuff is important because the shareowners themselves don't own that stuff.
And corporations to have the right to bear arms already.
I realize that now but just wait... get the right judges in the supreme court and they will soon get electoral college votes, if they don't already...
They don't.
That is pretty much the same thing as being afraid oft he boogeyman. Being afraid of "the right judge" that may or may not exist that may or may not have the case come up to the supreme court that may or may not allow them to may or may not grant corporations the right to vote in the popular election is a completely unfounded fear.
Now if you actually mean assigning corporations an electoral vote...that just doesn't make sense because those are based off populations of states.
i know i was being facetious... I saw someone earlier joking about a tinfoil hat showing, maybe a good thing once in awhile, helps get in touch with some of these protesters...