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Forum Post: I Have The Answer To All The Worlds Problems.

Posted 1 year ago on Feb. 4, 2013, 6:55 p.m. EST by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Solving All the World's Problems - in a Garden

In a few short months, permaculture goodness transformed a lifeless, salted desert schoolyard into a profusion of plants - which in turn created a school within a school. The children are learning how to take control back over their own futures, their health, and how to restore their abused environment and exhausted landscape. They are bringing this knowledge home to their parents.

The Jordanian Department of Education is noticing too! This garden won a national competition for environmental projects for schools - which means the whole, water stressed country is looking at the solutions found in this garden.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdsy8E2J1is

Greening the Desert Video - Parts I and II

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reCemnJmkzI

Green Gold - Documentary by John D. Liu

"It's possible to rehabilitate large-scale damaged ecosystems." Environmental film maker John D. Liu documents large-scale ecosystem restoration projects in China, Africa, South America and the Middle East, highlighting the enormous benefits to people and planet of undertaking these efforts globally.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBLZmwlPa8A

64 Comments

64 Comments


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[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (26862) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

MonSatan And Dow Chemical and others must hate this initiative.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (26862) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

In compliment:

Non-toxic biodegradable - Hhmmmmmmmm - whats not to love?

Welcome to Hemp Plastic

HEMP PLASTIC | WELCOME TO HEMP

[-] 0 points by oldJohn (-646) 1 year ago

Non-toxic biodegradable

pleonasm

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (26862) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Perhaps - if everyone is familiar with the complete concept of biodegradable.

Pleonasm - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleonasm Pleonasm (from Greek, pleon: more, too much) is the use of more words or word-parts than is necessary for clear expression: examples are black darkness, ...

BUT Then - Again:

Biodegradable - Environmental Issues - About.com environment.about.com › ... › Green Living in Your Home Of course, just because a product or ingredient is biodegradable does not mean it is healthy or safe for people or the environment. For example, the toxic ...

[-] -1 points by oldJohn (-646) 1 year ago

If you want to get into technical definitions every single thing is biodegradable, i.e. biological means can degrade anything. We're talking about the colloquial definition of biodegradable.

Can you give an example of a toxic product which advertises itself as being biodegradable?

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (26862) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

I could find some if that was my intent for the post - but my intent was to point out non-toxic and bio-degradable. Why don't you contribute some examples of products that are bio-degradable but leaving toxins in the ground? Be useful for once instead of being just a pain in the ass.

[-] -1 points by oldJohn (-646) 1 year ago

I don't believe there are products which are advertised as being bio-degradable which leave toxins in the ground. That's why I asked you for an example. I believe it's a pleonasm to say non-toxic bio-degradable product.

Nuclear waste is technically bio-degradable, but it's not advertised as such because of the colloquial definition of bio-debradable.

[-] -2 points by oldJohn (-646) 1 year ago

I don't consider plastic as being bio-degradable. Any other examples of biodegradable but toxic products?

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26862) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

I really don't care what you consider to be bio-degradable. This stuff is being put in landfills.

[-] -2 points by oldJohn (-646) 1 year ago

Do you know a PVC brand that advertises itself as being bio-degradable and is toxic?

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Didn't you just point out that everything is biodegradable?

I've had PVC biodegrade in my hotwater heater.

Turned it into junk, even though everything else in it still worked fine.

[-] -2 points by oldJohn (-646) 1 year ago

Read my comments again. I pointed out that technically everything is bio-degradable, but that in colloquial usage which is the one used to sell products not everything is bio-degrabable and certainly what would be advertised as being bio-degradable would be non-toxic.

This whole thread is based on the pleonasm "non-toxic bio-degradable".

Can you find me an example of a product which is advertised as being bio-degradable and which is toxic? If not, then a pleonasm it is.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26862) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Sure just like fossil fuel advertises clean coal. You might want to consider waking up.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Colloquaially speaking then, the PVC in my hot water heater bio-degraded.

If it breaks down, it degrades whether they advert it as such or not.

Oh, and actually, the thread is about permaculture.

You know, gardening?

There's a pretty good chance that at least some of these gardens will be using PVC for water distribution and drainage.

[-] -2 points by oldJohn (-646) 1 year ago

They can use bio-degradable PVC which is of course non-toxic. I'm not sure why you don't, all occupiers should,

http://biopvc.com/

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Hmmmm. Credit cards don't work so well in hotwater heaters either.

Although, these days, you may need one to purchase the heater.

[-] 2 points by Renneye (3959) 1 year ago

Kudos 'qm'!! This is one of the coolest things I've seen when it comes to solutions 'by the people, for the people'!! 'Turning the deserts green' and showing this beautiful earth's people how to feed themselves through sustainable gardens is the epitome of health. Sustenance and jobs! The bedrock of a "People's Society'.

These links are of the same ethos for the global population to collectively turn our backs on the system of the oligarchs, as the "Co-op" thread...and as such, these links would fit on that thread beautifully. I'll transfer them over...if you don't mind. ;-)

We people need to take care of each other...because the government never will! Thanks again quantumystic!

[-] 2 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

yes this is the way.

[-] 0 points by oldJohn (-646) 1 year ago

The great thing about permaculture is that it's real, unlike the Illuminati.

[-] 1 points by Renneye (3959) 1 year ago

Trashy. Hmm...lets try that again....

Sorry, je ne parle pas a$$hole.

Please remember this for future reference.

[-] 2 points by redandbluestripedpill (333) 1 year ago

Shouldn't we start by learning how to not destroy environments?

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

restoring ecology and permaculture go hand in hand. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permaculture

[-] 1 points by redandbluestripedpill (333) 1 year ago

I was talking about war and unbridled consumption,

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

peace and prosperity and permaculture go hand in hand.

[-] 2 points by peacehurricane (293) 1 year ago

If desert can be made green that fast so can other things go from ugly to serene. Hold on dear people believe and know that all is well. Let the rest pass on thru and bye and bye go it away in the flushing toilet where shit belongeth.

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

if you are saying people can change, i am saying not without a catalyst.

[-] 0 points by vaprosvyeh (-400) 1 year ago

Arid, desert land has been greened by tough farmers for centuries. The problem with areas like Jordan is that large scale farming in such conditions requires an enormous amount of water. Something that country doesn't get much of.

Here's a link to National Geographic and a series of articles about how countries like Saudi Arabia have consumed their precious underground water resources in a matter of decades.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2012/12/121217-pictures-greening-desert-irrigation-water-grabs/

"Their efforts are turning once barren land into sprouting oases through the use of modern, yet potentially short-sighted, watering technologies and methods."

"Although most of Saudi Arabia is sandy desert, the country was blessed with a massive underground aquifer."

"Forty years ago, that aquifer held 120 cubic miles (500 cubic kilometers) of water, enough to fill Lake Erie. But roughly four-fifths of that water has been pumped out for irrigation over the past few decades, based on extraction rates detailed in a 2004 paper from the University of London. There is little hope for replenishment from rainwater, which averages less than eight inches (200 millimeters) a year."

"As a result of this dwindling supply and the high energy costs of drilling and pumping, the Saudi government has said irrigated wheat production should end by 2016. In order to feed itself, the Saudis are increasingly turning to agricultural holdings abroad."

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26862) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Apparently you did not bother to watch any of the video links? Start with the 1st link in the post.

Arid, desert land has been greened by tough farmers for centuries. The problem with areas like Jordan is that large scale farming in such conditions requires an enormous amount of water. Something that country doesn't get much of.

[-] 0 points by vaprosvyeh (-400) 1 year ago

The "garden" in the video is not, in my opinion, "large scale farming", and farmers in arid, desert classified land in the US have been greening such places for 150+ years.

A garden requires much less water because you can control the environment around it fairly easily. A large scale farm on open air desert land, is an entirely different ecosystem that requires much more water to produce successful crops.

Thus, the enormous "water grabs" happening all over the world as arid countries try to establish large scale ecosystems is causing a ground water crisis. The link I posted explains this.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (26862) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Sorry you failed to notice in the vid that these areas being reclaimed ( greened ) start a parcel at a time and after established sustain them self. Also you fail to note that these projects could be much larger in scale and will move in that direction as these test areas are proved - you also apparently missed the re-greening of substantial areas in China.

[-] 1 points by vaprosvyeh (-400) 1 year ago

No. What I noticed is the difference between "re-greening" a parcel of land that was once productive, that was just over-farmed or damaged, and has the ability to be again, and SOME attempts being made all over the world to green land that has never been productive.

China is a country with substantial rainfall, wetlands, and an extensive river system, which allows for re-greening to become self sustaining because the regenerated soil holds in the moisture. (China is not considered a desert) Saudi Arabia is not a country with substantial rainfall, wetlands, or an extensive river system and even regenerated soil cannot hold what it never receives. (Saudi Arabia is a desert)

It is a statistical fact that countries around the world are pumping groundwater out of natural aquifers to water crops at a rate that exceeds the rate of water being replenished into those aquifers. In such instances, the projects are not perma culture at all, they are temporary culture and are leading to future water crisis.

Here's a Water Availability and Use in the Middle East chart-discussing renewable water sources vs consumption.

http://www.carboun.com/environment/water-availability-and-water-use-in-the-arab-world-infographics/

I am 100% supportive of perma culture and restoring, reclaiming land that has been abused. I'm demonstrating that trying to establish an ecosystem in an area that cannot sustain that ecosystem on it's own is counterproductive and possibly dangerous.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (26862) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Then you have comprehension difficulties? As you apparently missed the reclaiming of salt ground. In desert/arid country severely water deprived country. Kind of missed that whole bit - hey?

[-] 1 points by vaprosvyeh (-400) 1 year ago

I'm apparently not the one having comprehension difficulties.

How are they watering their schoolyard garden?

http://www.permacultureglobal.com/projects/407-jawaseri-school-garden-project

"There is very little available water for irrigation in the area, and it is delivered just a couple of times per week in a water tanker, so the garden was designed in this way so as to maximise water efficiency. "

Imagine how much water would have to be pumped, and then transported by tanker, in order to water say, 100 similar gardens? 1000? Where would that water come from? And what happens if that water supply runs out?

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (26862) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago
[-] -1 points by vaprosvyeh (-400) 1 year ago

Yes. I know. Do you understand the difference in the water requirements between a "greened area" with trees and bushes, whose roots run deep, and a vegetable garden-whose roots are shallow?

Do you understand the differences between foresting, gardening and farming? I do. It's why in my very first post I used the phrase "large scale farming" and indicated that the Saudi's trying to grow wheat in their climate and conditions (where they are forced to pump and irrigate with groundwater) has caused them to drain the majority of their aquifer. They did indeed turn the desert GREEN for a while, but what they established was not perma-culture.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26862) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago
[-] 0 points by vaprosvyeh (-400) 1 year ago

If you're going to post the previous link again, just refer to my previous response. Again.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26862) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

But your response does not take into consideration of the fact that viable self sustaining areas are being made - they are not planting wheat - so what - they have olives pomegranates figs and other fruits and vegetables. Maybe someday down the line they will have recovered enough area to make wheat a possibility.

[-] 1 points by vaprosvyeh (-400) 1 year ago

Really? Did you miss these?

"No. What I noticed is the difference between "re-greening" a parcel of land that was once productive, that was just over-farmed or damaged, and has the ability to be again, and SOME attempts being made all over the world to green land that has never been productive."

"I am 100% supportive of perma culture and restoring, reclaiming land that has been abused. I'm demonstrating that trying to establish an ecosystem in an area that cannot sustain that ecosystem on it's own is counterproductive and possibly dangerous."

I also provided a link to the kind of large scale farming I was talking about, that is NOT self sustaining, which details the IRRIGATION required to grow certain "crops" is causing a water shortage in a place already water stressed.

Are we on the same page? Self sustaining and viable with very little irrigation and limited water sources=good. Forced, large scale irrigation with limited water supply=bad.

Grove of trees bearing figs and olives and pomegranates on it's own=good. Same grove requiring limited well water or drip irrigation using water from same land=not quite as good (not completely self sustaining). Veggie garden requiring careful tending and bi-weekly water trucking=good as a lesson ground, but not at all self sustaining or viable without intervention. (Not to mention the electricity and oil required to pump and transport the water used isn't green at all) Huge swath of land growing wheat which requires TONS of water during its growth phase and during HOT/DRY weather (shallow root system) to keep it from dying=bad.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26862) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Who is saying the land should support something unsuited to the region?

They have fruit and vegetables growing on arid/salt land in Jordan - on self sustaining land. Land that was reclaimed using captured seasonal rains.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

Beautiful post! Thank you!

Do you have any good book recommendations on this topic? Particularly in regards to transforming America?

[-] 2 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

not off hand but check out http://www.evolvernetwork.org/ they specialize in transforming the world.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

clicking it now. thanks.

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

what do you think?

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

intriguing. They seem to cover a variety of topics. I didn't see too much info on transformation, but I'm sure that's more specifically explained in their spore events.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26862) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Tweeted

I Have The Answer To All The Worlds Problems. http://occupywallst.org/forum/i-have-the-answer-to-all-the-worlds-problems/#.URK52dttx7c.twitter FOOD4Thought4Growth4Future Environment/Economy Health LIFE

Shift the paradigm - Spread the Word.

[-] 0 points by oldJohn (-646) 1 year ago

How many Twitter followers do you have.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (26862) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

More today then yesterday - and guess what? - They have followers as well - and those followers have followers - So - I suppose you could say I have enough followers to get started.

[-] -1 points by oldJohn (-646) 1 year ago

Sure, you could say that. I was simply curious. People who have no life apart from their computer life usually have a lot of twitter followers. You know, there are products which enable you to interact with Twitter from outside your home. You can take a walk and tweet. It's now possible.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26862) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

What you would advise that I proliferate the use of products ( work off-shored ) made in foreign sweatshops for slave wages?

[-] 0 points by oldJohn (-646) 1 year ago

You could use American made products purchased at SparkFun Electronics. You could encourage the American economy and take walks outside.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26862) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

R these products made with non-fossil fuel derived plastics?

[-] -3 points by oldJohn (-646) 1 year ago

You live naked in your bio-degradable plastic free therapeutic bed, never use plastics at all, and you'll use any available excuse no matter how ridiculous to avoid going outside?

You could build a plastic free, 100% bio-degradable non toxic Twitter device made in America that would permit you to go outside, and it would be more environmentally friendly than the computer stuck to your plastic therapeutic bed. And, these ventures outside would result in exercise helping your fibromyalgia and your addiction to this site would not be tampered with.

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (26862) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Don't presume to know how to manage fibromyalgia - unless of course you have it and have been managing it ( successfully ) for several years. Don't presume you know me or what my day is like. You are not wanted on this site you are not a supporter of this site - go somewhere you will be appreciated - yeah I know - I can't imagine where that would be either.

[-] -1 points by oldJohn (-646) 1 year ago

I do have fibromyalgia. It's a common sickness in my family. Exercise is the best medicine I have found.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26862) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Liar - now why don't you talk about permaculture as that is what this post/thread is about.

[-] -1 points by oldJohn (-646) 1 year ago

Trust me, exercise is good for fibromyalgia. Lack of exercise is a trigger.

One of the best ways to learn about permaculture is to go outside to see plantations.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26862) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

talk about permaculture or go play with yourselves.

[-] 0 points by oldJohn (-646) 1 year ago

Well, one of the best books I read was The Permaculture Book of Ferment and Human Nutrition by Bill Mollison. I particularly liked the section on cheese.

What's your favorite book on permaculture?

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26862) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago
[-] -1 points by chuckuschumer (-366) 1 year ago

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjmtSkl53h4

You could learn a lot from this video.