Forum Post: I had a friend not too long ago who injured his shoulder playing football. He started taking pain killers. After a few months, he was on pain killers, sleeping pills, bipolar pills, and seizure pills. I watched this guy go from being a strong athlete to a
Posted 12 years ago on Dec. 23, 2011, 12:36 a.m. EST by ModestCapitalist
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I had a friend not too long ago who injured his shoulder playing football. He started taking pain killers. After a few months, he was on pain killers, sleeping pills, bipolar pills, and seizure pills. I watched this guy go from being a strong athlete to a shell. He lost 30 or 40 pounds. He gave up sports alltogether. I witnessed him having a seizure. He was completely helpless. I had to drag him up a hill, put him in the car, and take him to the hospital. The next day, he was on another prescription drug. Then one day, he told me that he was referred to a neurologist. I went off. I told him that the whole thing was a god damn train wreck caused by pharmaceuticals.
He gave up all pharmaceuticals right then and there. That was almost 3 years ago. Now, he is drug free, in perfect health, and in better shape than ever serving in the US Army.
True story.
Anyone who can't see that doctors are in bed with the pharmaceutical industry is blind. My mother once attended an 'educational' seminar with a doctor. The event was held at a yacht club. They spent 30 minutes watching a video. Then it was out on the yachts. The entire event was catered and covered by the pharmaceutical industry. That sort of thing happens all the time. These aren't just perks. Its outright bribery.
The doctors are in bed with the pharmaceutical industry. The hell with ethics. The hell with responsibility. THE HELL WITH HEALTH. Pharmaceuticals are prescribed like candy. It shouldn't be that way. Pharmaceuticals should be prescribed only for excruciating pain or serious conditions that don't improve with proper diet, excercise, and other responsible healthy lifestyle choices. Side effects should never be treated with more pharmaceuticals unless the primary condition absolutely requires medication and the side effect is too serious to leave untreated. Otherwise, the patient might end up like my friend did before he finally came back to his senses.
My brother is a doctor, as is my aunty, her son - my cousin, as are several people I call friends and my sister and other family members are also health care professionals ... and I, myself spent 6 months in hospital after a very serious car accident .. and I'll say this :
Your posts above are extremely important, interesting and noteworthy !
The "Pathologising Of Everyday Living" needs to be Resisted Strongly !!
Big Pharma Corps. are a huge part of The Problem in Modern Society !!!
verbum satis sapienti ...
Hopefully, your relatives and friends are the good ones. Personally, I've known only two I can trust. My own doctor growing up and my mom's current doctor. But my dad's doctors are horrible. Just horrible. One of them steps into the doorway, asks 3 or 4 questions, tells him he looks good, and sends a $150 bill.
I'm in the UK, where we are still blessed by having the "FREE at the point of use" NHS (National Health Service). My friends and relatives alluded to above are also generally suspicious of 'Big Pharma' and its creeping corruption, continuous fleecing of the NHS & the "Pathologising of Everyday Living" !
The money motivation for UK doctors is way down the list of my anxieties ; it is the "International Big Pharmaceutical Corporations" that I am so very suspicious of !!
I'm also aware of the situation in The U$A, where (as ever, alas) Money Corrupts even normal human relations and interactions !!!
radix malorum est cupiditas ...
My sister in-laws father died from a freakin boil because the NHS in England said it was not a big deal.
@ Muppet : Commiserations. Tho' his medical history may have been a bit more complicated then you may fully know ! + I didn't say The NHS was perfect but at least folk aren't scared to fall ill for financial reasons in the UK !!! Stay well ;-)
Very sorry. All the medical advanced in the world mean nothing to a great portion of Americans who can't get basic medical attention. People in this country die from cavities.
After being diagnosed with chronic pain for a period of 30 to 45 days, MDs are supposed to refer those patients to pain management clinics where physical therapy and other methods of correcting the problem are used to address the source of the pain. Unfortunately doctors don't always do as they should. They fail to act with the best interests of the patient in mind - namely getting relief of the pain and correcting the problem so the patient can lead as normal a life as possible without dependence on drugs.
Be on the lookout for commercial brainwash plots on TV. They are written into nearly every scene of nearly every show. Most cater to network sponsors, corporate partners, and parent companies. Especially commercial health care. In particular, high profit pharmaceuticals and excessive medical testing. These plugs are countless, calculated, and VERY well written. They have commercial brainwashing down to a science. DON'T FALL FOR IT.
Get off the couch and take care of your own body the way nature intended. There is no substitute. If you must drug away your sniffles, worries, jitters, aches, and pains, then at least do your homework. Be aware of the possible side-effects ahead of time. Don't be surprised to find yourself back a week or two later feeling worse. If you are diagnosed with another medical condition, then ask your doctor what he/she has done to rule out those possible side-effects. Don't treat drug related side-effects with more drugs unless absolutely necessary.
Yeah I'm amazed how many drug commercials there are anymore.One also needs to know how their meds will interact and make sure their doctor knows everything they're taking,even over the counter drugs. I've found a lot of natural remedies actually work too.There's a lot of truth in the old wives tales.
Are you still going to filibuster me even when I agree with you? Because this is one of those times, so go for it with your copy-and-paste thing...
I'm a computer programmer. Computers are pretty complicated, and a piece of code that seems simple can have amazing unintended consequences when it ricochets around a computer network. The human body is far more complex than a computer, and the mechanism of action of the simplest drug is far more complex than the most complex software in the world. It's inherently obvious that any drug can and will have unintended consequences. We should only take the risk of throwing a monkey wrench into the system in rare cases, for a specific benefit. But drug companies need customers, and so they lobby our health care providers to push drugs on us just like they lobby our politicians to change the rules. If you're relatively healthy but you're taking more than one medication every day, then a drug company and a doctor are probably getting more benefit out of the deal than you are.
I have a cousin who I'm about to see for Christmas who is a leading drug rep for Pfizer, who works at their headquarters in Murray Hill in NYC. He thinks that everybody should be on statins, to the point where he thinks that they should be added to the water supply like fluoride. I'm absolutely serious.
Its surprising that we can disagree so strongly on other issues and agree so much on this one. I've also heard that claim that we should all be on statins. Its insane. A god damn lie.
I agree. And if you took the time to discuss other things with me instead of filibustering me then we would probably find a lot of other points of agreement.
One thing that doesn't suck about having a cousin who works for Pfizer: Viagra sample packs in the stockings at Christmas. :)
We aren't going to agree on what happened a few days ago. Its not going to happen. But I am willing to keep an open mind next time we have a disagreement.
Evil Pharmaceutical industry lol! They produce no good for society. Lets ban the development of all drugs! Occupy Big Pharma!
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medical marijuana that is all i have to say.
I heard about a similar thing happening to a guy who embraced the drug called religion.
Merry X Mass troll. this is very important topic right now to talk about pain killers. why somebody will use that??? This Is OWS!
Is that a parable for the soul sucking debilitation that government entitlements cause? We need to get off them right now! Thanks for sharing!
I'm blessed with a doctor who doesn't just throw meds at a problem. I think there are a lot of them though that do just that. Then there's the ones who will write a scrip for painkillers even though nothing is wrong with the patient. I think these are called "pill mill doctors".
I guess now you can just post whatever here and they will just eat it up.
True story.
Just because your friend became addicted does not support your blanket claim that pharmaceuticals are evil.
Its not a blanket claim. Of course, there is a legitimate market for pharmaceuticals. But that legitimate market is only a fraction of the market they have created through aggressive marketing, brainwash plots on TV, and excessive prescribing.
Doctors make money selling you tests drugs and procedures and insurance companies make money by not giving you care when you get sick. Who in the for profit healthcare system is motivated by your well being ? Anyway nice job catching your friend at just the right moment to help him change his life around. Wish I could have that luck with one of my neighbors.
And that's why I don't take meds I don't need to keep me alive. Pain killers are the worst. Too damn addictive. We can't buy heroin on the street, but they can prescribe a synthetic version in a doctor's office.
I recently heard that prescription drug overdose has become the #1 killer in the United States. Amazing.
Here it is. The #1 accidental killer. Prescription drug overdose. Unfortunately, CBS won't admit their own sponsor friendly programming to be part of the problem.
10/16/2011
(CBS News) According to the Centers for Disease Control, one American dies of a drug overdose every 14 minutes … with a rapidly increasing share of those deaths caused by prescription drugs. It’s the sort of statistic law enforcement officials in one Florida county know about all too well. Our Sunday Morning
Another day, another pill patrol for Pinellas County, Fla. Sheriff’s deputies.
Instead of chasing drugs from abroad, police say their biggest problem now comes from a doctor’s office.
After years of spotty regulation, Florida is still awash in prescription painkillers, like Oxycontin, the brand name for Oxycodone.
And the effect has been lethal: In Florida alone, seven people die of prescription drug overdose every 24 hours.
Nationwide, prescription drug overdose has surpassed traffic accidents as the leading cause of accidental death.
“I think we have to realize that this is the first time in the history of the world that we have had a public health epidemic of death, disease and destruction that is actually being caused by health care,” said Lisa Roberts, a public health nurse.
And Florida is the epicenter:
Police surveillance tape captures a Pinellas County pain clinic – run by a licensed doctor as a cash-only convenience store for prescription painkillers, or pill mill – and the customers can’t seem to get in fast enough.
“People literally line up in the morning, wait for the doors to open,” said Chief Deputy Bob Gualtieri. “They swarm inside.
“I hate to even call them ‘doctors,’” Gualtieri said. “Because they’re really not doctors. They’re people who hold a medical license, but they’re really not practicing medicine. And you pay a cash fee.”
“They’re drug dealers,” he said.
When we rode along with Pinellas County sheriff’s deputies, their focus was a storefront medical clinic.
Shutting down the “doctors” who run pill mills can be a marathon legal process, so in Pinellas County, police also go after the visitors as they leave.
If the detectives can get them for the smallest violation – maybe they don’t put their seatbelt on when they drive away – that’s a reason to pull them over, and most of the time something else is going on in that car.
Police follow one car for a few blocks, then pull him over for the seatbelt violation – and find he’s carrying a handful of prescriptions. They suspect this “patient” may be a prescription drug dealer – going from doctor to doctor, stockpiling supplies.
After a few phone calls to the doctors, he’s arrested on suspicion of doctor shopping – a felony that carries a jail term of up to five years.
Part of the problem, police say, is the lure of instant wealth.
Chief Deputy Bob Qualtieri says the pill mills are very profitable: “Because you can go to a local pharmacy and buy a generic pill for about a dollar a pill. You could sell it locally, on the street, for $15 to $20 a pill. You could take it up north in some places and sell it for $30 a pill.”
The drug problem has moved north with interstate speed, as addicts and sealers bring pills from Florida back to their hometowns in other states – a phenomenon known as the “Oxy Express.”
Lisa Roberts has watched the number of pill addicts in her town of Portsmouth, Ohio skyrocket. “It has truly crossed over into mainstream Middle Class America as a prolific addiction,” she said.
“Our mindset is that these are medications, and therefore, they are safe,” said Roberts. “And so people tend to take them very casually. Whereas a person would not consider doing heroin, they would consider – and be encouraged – to take a pill.”
When Jason Davis hurt his back, he naively went, x-rays in hand, to a pain clinic that his mother says turned out to be little more than a front for drug dealing.
“I remember him going, and he came home, he said, ‘Mom, I went in there, I’m the only one that had an x-ray,’” Patty Davis recalls. “He didn’t know anything, you know, what’s going on. You know, we were all stupid at that time, you know?”
Patty Davis found an array of her son’s pill bottles hidden on her property – all from the same state.
“I had found out that he had been making monthly trips to Florida,” she told Smith. “to a pain clinic in West Palm Beach.”
In August 2010, after returning home to Ohio from yet another run to Florida, Jay Davis was found unresponsive at his home.
“I went up to the apartment. The detective was in the yard, and he said, ‘Are you the mom?’” Davis said. “I said, Yes, I am.’ He said, ‘You can’t go in there. You can’t see him like that.’”
Patty has found comfort in a group of moms who lost children to drugs – and now lobbies for tougher laws.
They’ve pushed successfully for stricter prescription drug laws in Ojio. Ad in Florida, the crackdown on prescription drug abuses has gone form the clinic to the classroom.
On average, kids are believed to begin sampling prescription drugs starting at age 13.
“They will either take it out of the medicine cabinet or buy some on the street,” said Palm Beach County Sheriff Ric Bradshaw. “And then they have a party and when they go in, the admission to the party is a big bowl and they just drop pills in the bowl. And of course there’s alcohol there. But the end result is there’s a chemical reaction between those two pills and that alcohol.”
“If they’re lucky, they will fall in a spot where they can breathe,” Bradshaw said. “More times than not they don’t and in about three minutes they’re dead. And that’s the overdose death from prescription medication.”
Karen Perry lost her oldest son Richard to a drug overdoe in 2003. She visit him every day in the small cemetery across the street from her home.
“I can tell you there’s nothing worse than losing a child,” she said.
In her son’s memory, Perry founded the Narcotics Overdose Prevention and Education task force, traveling the state to share a story that never gets easier to tell.
And the message seems to be getting through, to kids at least: Prescription drug abuse among Florida teens is on the decline.
And just getting illegal pills in Florida could soon be a lot tougher.
Starting tomorrow, pharmacists can tap into a brand-new statewide drug database designed to track the most addictive painkillers.
It’s a start, cops say … but only that.
When asked if police were chipping away at prescription drug trafficking, Chief Deputy Gualtieri said, “Barely.
“There are a lot of efforts being made, and there’s a lot of people dedicated and are working hard every single day to try and make a dent in it, but we got a ways to go,” said Gualtieri.
CBS
The drugs are not the solution, healing with time and enduring the pain is the only answer. Pain meds are only for at first. Once you learn to endure the pain on your own, your pain threshold is raised, the brain and CNS compensates for constant pain. Getting rid of inflammation naturally is key. Taking pain meds lowers the threshold. Example, say you break your arm. You go to doc, get fixed, get pills - once off pills other parts of your body begin to hurt as you withdraw as the threshold returns to normal. If the drugs are used to compensate, a vicious cycle begins. You must not ever take the easy way out. I never take pain meds, the last time only was when I had a tooth problem. Wein yourself off. Do not give into the temptation, avoid oxycodone.percocet, vicodin at all cost. Tramadol, and tylenol/codeine is lowest grade, and takes edge off, once you begin healing wein off pain meds. Using them as emotional/feel good crutch is also bad, as emotion will manifest as physical pain. Let the body do what it was designed. Therapy, exercise, both help, and will raise the pain threshold and natural endorphin production. Society is groomed for a quick fix, - a cure disguised as pill - then once off the med, the pain returns. You must endure the pain and let the chi re-balance. We have the power within us. I can stick my hand in a fire, and have no blister or burn. It is all in the mind, train yourself...I have done it, many have. Once you endure pain, your brain, CNS, & body will produce more endorphin naturally, which is the "morphine" built in. The drugs are evil..I am glad they made me sick when I took them. I once was prescribed vicodin for severe ankle sprain for a few days. When I stopped I suffered and was ill, sweating, and in pain. I weined off in a few days, and vow to never take that crap again. Mind over matter, anyone has the will to break this. Anyone that keeps going back to doc is not healing the mind, only enabling it to become dependent.
I could not possibly agree more except for one point (I'll get to it.). I also take nothing. Not even aspirin or vitamins. I do want to add one very important point. Pain is Mother Nature's natural indicator. Its there for a reason. To alter your behavior, protect the injured area, and prevent further injury. Pain killers turn down or turn off this natural indicator jeopardizing any chance for a timely or full recovery. Also leaving you in more pain when the first dose wears off. This can lead to addiction. For this reason, one should never take pain killers except for rare circumstances in which the pain is excruciating and the indicator less necessary. For example, a severe toothache (Get it fixed.), or severe burn (Get it fixed to whatever extent possible. Allow recovery time.).
Now, for that one point I disagree with. Pain threshold is one thing. But you can't just 'will' your way around the laws of physics. If you put your hand in a fire, it will blister and burn. The severity will depend entirely on the individual characteristics of your hand, the individual characteristics of the fire, the proximity, and the duration. Not your will to prevent a blister or burn.
I can do it, I have a limit, eventually I could blister and burn I know. But what I am pointing out is I have an extremely high, and trained pain threshold. I freak people out. I know where it will hurt beyond a point and know just when to pull my hand slowly, most cannot get near the flame. My threshold is simply higher, I have trained myself through various disciplinary methods. I will still burn, if I overstay my window in the fire...I have control of my pain. It does not hurt when I stick my had in for a bit, but eventually it will and it is trained to that point where the damage will start....It can be done. I have smashed my hand through concrete block with no injury as well. You can still "get an injury" if not trained in this practice...
Your ability to smash your hand through the concrete block is the result of technique, the individual characteristics of your hand, the individual characteristics of the block, and its support. More on the edges. Less in the middle. I've done it also but as a flyweight with a light frame, I would never attempt the thicker blocks. Anyway, concrete blocks don't try to mug you or pick a fight with you in the parking lot (Thats my attempt at humor.).
I have been carjacked too - and I won with the mind, I let him in the passenger side. Told him it was OK, (lot more details on another post) I tried to help him get to where he was going. Even told him I was in trouble, just for letting him in the car. When I was through with the 2 hour ordeal of driving around, he begged to take me to the station to turn himself in. It is all in the mind, show no fear. Having a gun pointed at me did not bother me. Fear is what makes you prey, No fear and you equalize the field, and the fear projected is always reflected back. I know this sounds nuts, but in my situations I know how to pick and choose battles. There is something in my eyes that scares these types....
Well, you're an interesting guy and this conversation does interest me. But we're getting pretty far off track.
It has been fun PM me if you want to chat about anything ;) All you have to do is click my ID to send message, or http://occupywallst.org/users/NewEnglandPatriot
You're living in a drug society.
Everything you drink and eat is a drug.
When you get sick from eating and drinking the toxic drugs, they give you even more toxic drugs; until you are hospitalized and die from the hospital treatments.
Los Angeles county had a hospital strike in the 70's. 14 million people. All the hospitals closed, then they opened back up again.
The next year the actuarial tables for that year the strike happened, showed a distinct fall in the death rate in the county while the hospitals were closed.
The death rate rose back up to its 'normal' rate once the hospitals opened up again.
Try an experiment. Shut down all the hospitals in America for one month... then open them back up again.
If the death rate in America falls during the month the hospitals are closed go down: as it will... shut them all down permanently and don't open them back up again.
I am responsible for my own health. Nobody is responsible for my health except me. If I get sick from doing something wrong: it's my fault. I don't use medicare or socialized health care because I know it's a scam.
Once people don't have anyone to take care of them: they will either stop being babies and grow up, AND BECOME RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR OWN ACTIONS, or die.
This will solve many problems.
Hospitals are only for rich people who are so sick they need surgery. When a fat man eats junk food for 40 years: he deserves to die from eating all that crap. When a healthy man doesn't overeat and doesn't eat processed food: and is active and exercises, he deserves to live longer, and he will not become a senile cripple in an electric wheelchair in his later years.
This will save much money and it will also get rid of the ones who are lazy and stupid.
When you realize doctors can't help you and hospitals don't heal you: you either take responsibility for your own health or you suffer the consequences of your own laziness and infantile expectation of living in a nanny state where the govt. takes care of you..
When people take responsibility for their own health: they will stop buying processed foods and they will stop eating any dairy/meat/fish products, and they will stop eating junk food and stop going to fast food restaurants.
This will get rid of a huge sector of the corporate evil in your society and there will be less special interest lobbyists in Washington, and less commercials selling you shit like pizza and soft drinks.
This will also raise the IQ level of the entire nation and there will be less people using the internet and more people playing sports and exercising and camping... and your freak culture of living with computers instead of human beings will disappear and the internet will used so rarely it will only be used for writing letters. Children will not be allowed to sit indoors and watch junk TV and surf junk internet.
This will get rid of the largest cash industry in the world: Pornography. The money saved by this obscene filth no longer being sold will increase the well-being and economy of the whole world; not just America.
Your whole nation will be better off if all the hospitals are shut down permanently. All of the rich doctors and lawyers and pharmaceutical executives will lose their jobs and they will be forced to actually do something useful for a living. The grasslands will not be stripped of all forage and there will no longer be the mass slaughtering of living animals. The giant food and farm corporations will go bankrupt and all that land will be given back to small family farms and people will move back into Nature and there will be no more supermarkets selling 10,000 kinds of processed canned dried, frozen preserved shit, and people will not have toxic preservatives in their bodies anymore to make them sick and die and become senile. drooling idiots. Dentists will go out of business because children will not be eating sugar. Electronic manufacturers will go out of business because people will be outdoors having fun and playing in the fresh air. The commercial engine of mass manufacturing will be starved of customers because each one will be responsible for their own health and homeopathic doctors and herbalists will become the mainstay of a health system based upon the intelligent PREVENTION of sickness by living a healthy lifestyle.
People who choose to live sick lifestyles will be despised and ostracized from all decent society and they will die unaided by healthy people because the reason they get sick is their own responsibility and their own fault and nobody else's.
If America had shut down all its hospitals 20 years ago: Dick Cheney would have died 20 years ago of a rotten evil heart and you wouldn't have had that sick evil thing corrupting your national govt.
Oh yes... the war on drugs will disappear: People who use narcotics and pills and hallucinogens etc will either die of overdoses or get off drugs or kill each other. All the manufacturers and sellers and distributors of alcoholic beverages will go bankrupt. Budweiser will go bankrupt. This will kill the professional sports industry because there will no longer be any huge commercial corporations rich enough to fund it, which will not be noticed because everyone will be playing their own sports and not sitting on their ass watching someone else having fun. This will reduce the cost of car insurance when thee are no more drunk drivers in the road. All the bars and taverns and beer halls will disappear from all the towns and prostitution will not longer have a place to breed, and young people will not frequent these places anymore and there will be no more illicit sex and unmarried mothers and teenage pregnancies and girls who have to get abortions.
This means you will no longer have a drug culture and you will no longer have a drug culture which pushes and sells drugs and your children will not be corrupted anymore by these addictive products anymore.
This disappearance of the illegal drug trade and the legal; drug trade will bankrupt the largest financial corporations like Citigroup who only survive from laundering the drug money which is fueled by American drug addicts. This will destroy the international banking cartels and banks will be forced to give back the property they stole illegally from the people and you will get you Govt back again. Rich movie stars will be spat upon because nobody will be going to watch their schlock shit entertainment anymore because people will be creating their own fun.
This will also reduce the crime rate. With no more people addicted to drugs: violent crimes and theft and vandalism will almost disappear. With no more drunkards and drug addicts beating their wives and abusing their children: the prison system will go bankrupt because there will be no more criminals to fill up the prisons and the prison lobby will die out, and people will not have to lock their doors anymore and America will become a healthier friendlier nation and there will be more trust and fellowship and goodwill between everyone and the quality of life will improve; there will be no more gangs, no more drug wars, no more criminal syndicates making money off selling drugs.
This will also cut down gambling. Los Vegas will become a ghost town. Gambling will once again be regarded as a social sin and a disease. There will be no more legalized lotteries. All gambling of any sort will be declared illegal and the throwing way of money in the greedy desire to get rich quick will disappear from the American culture. This in turn will be reflected by all businesses no longer being run as bottom-line feeders. Companies that make too much profit will be boycotted and the value of their shares will plummet. Businesses will be run with for the long term future. This will make them more environmentally aware and responsible and the destruction of the planet will stop and only renewable resources will be used and new innovations will create millions of new jobs and the economy will surge up to an unheard of 100% employment rate with nobody out of work. Billionaires will be forced to clean their own toilets because ordinary decent people will not want to come near them or work for them. Many of them will commit suicide or be committed into insane asylums for the filthy greedy rich. Therapy centers and counseling for the mental/spiritual/emotional disease of avarice and greed will become part of the national health system. People who are greedy will be recognized as being socially sick and dangerous to society.
The death rate of babies will go down. Instead of America having the highest number of babies dying during their first 6 months, it will have the lowest. Women will be having healthy babies being born at home, with their loved ones all around, with midwives assisting in the birth at home and the cost of a birth will no longer be an exorbitant sum and medical bills will vanish, and the repossession of property due to debts incurred by families trying to keep one of their members alive in a hospital for 2 more weeks or 4 more months will be a thing of the past and people will die in their own homes and not in these inhuman death factories where patients are treated as pieces of meat. This will allow a family to pass on its wealth to their children and not have it sucked out of them by a system which charges money for killing people.
The idea that manufacturing and selling drugs to make a profit is supposed to be 'good'. if it is done by a legalized system instead an illegal one. will disappear.
With no market for illegal or legal drugs: there will be no more coffee shops and no more DRUG stores and no more ice cream parlors, and all the money saved from not buying and eating that shit will be put to better use.
The point is: it's not just one part of your society which is sick. It's not just the top 1% that's corrupt, It's ALL OF YOUR SOCIETY. If you want to make a better world you need to make EVERYTHING better. Until you realize this: you will be just a bunch of chickens pecking at a few grains of sand on a beach where the waves of corruption throw millions of grains of more sand onto your beach every day.
Turak. I'm going to be straight with you. There are some legitimate points in your manifesto. Some legitimate calls. Unfortunately, the rest of it is so radical, presumptuous, and hateful, that I must dismiss it entirely.
Turak, I wouldn't worry about it too much. I think most on here have seen ModestCapitalist's manifestos as well and have dismissed him entirely as well haha.
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Wrong: it is YOU who is filled with hate it is YOU who is presumptuous It is YOU who is guilty of all the sins which society has poisoned you with.
You YOU must do is cleanse yourself of all your evil sins and vices and stop REVERSING your perception..
You are living in a society which is not responsible for its actions.
Because of the ENVIRONMENT of irresponsibility you live INSIDE
You YOURSELF ARE IRRESPONSIBLE AND DISHONEST
This is the main reason your OWS movement is a total joke. Since you are just as guilty of siin ans the filthy rich: you have no leg to stand on when they rob you because capoitalism is nothing but a system os legalized MUTUAL robbery where everybody tries to rob everybody else.
Because of this: there is NO morality iin capitalism: just a desire for PROFIT Because of thei there are NO ethical standards which are upheld: just the avaricious greed for MONEY.
Thee immoral unethical DESIRE itself for money corrupts ALL OF YOU: and because you are irresponsible: you have also become PROGRAMMED AND BRAINWASHED into being a DISHONEST person who LIES THROUGH HIS TEETH.
Until you recognize the sins of YOUR OWN SELF: and cast them out: you will not have any power to cast out the sins of others.
UNtil you are without sin: you do not have the MORAL and ETHICAL AUTHORITY AND POWER to cast te first stone.
I HAVE THAT POWER
You don't.
I have the power to cast the stone of guilt against you because I oppose ALL OF YOUR FILTHY CULTURE AND ALL OF CAPITALISM: not just 1% of it!!
Capitalism CREATED your filthy rich billionaires! Capitalism is RESPONSIBLE!! for creating this centralizing of all money and power into the feest possible hands! Nobody can deny this truth!
YET ALL OF YOU DO
All of you keep on trying to preserve the very system you are fighting against!
Trying to fight against 1% of a system that is 100% rotten corrupt and evil DOES NOT WORK you fucking imbecile
You either get rid of ALL of it: or you keep ALL of it
This wishy-washy pointing the finger at the top 1% of the pyramid of evil by the 99% who MAKE UP THE REST OF THE PYRAMID of greed and avarice is merely a case of the pot calling the kettle black. Calling the top 1% blacker than they are. Big fucking deal! So they're a LITTLE bit greedier than you. So they're a LITTLE bit more selfish than you are. Big fucking deal... ALL OF YOU are just as guilty as sin of the very things you accuse them of being.
NOT ME.
I am against ALL OF CAPITALISM: not just 1% of it
The reason I'm against all of it is because I DO N OT LIE TO MYSELF and I don't try to rationalize away my own faults and I don't try to avoid facing myself
YOU DO
The reason I'm against all of capitalism is because I am LOGICAL and HONEST
You're not.
You reason why I am right and you are wrong is because you are a stinking fucking self-deluding LIAR and I SPEAK THE LOGIC OF TRUTH.
ALL TRUTH IS LOGICAL ALL DISHONESTY IS ILLOGICAL
The instant you find yourself contradicting yourself: you KNOW you are lying to yourself.
The instant you find that all of your statements do NOT contradict each other you KNOW you are being truthful and logical.
That is called SCIENCE. SCIENTIFIC FACTS DO NOT LIE.
Instead...: you lie: you try to deny the logic of science and fact and truth..
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The illusion that you have the power to choose to ignore the scientific facts of life only exists because you do not contact me in person.
It is only over the internet that anonymous imbeciles and liars and hypocrites can get away with spouting bullshit and not being called on their crap and not being kicked out on their asses into the street when they become insufferable egoistical jackasses.
Because of this culture of unreality: you live inside an unreal fantasy where you are not forced to face the facts of life.
You can pretend the sun does not exist and hide inside your hole and not look at the sun.
But if the sun stops shining: you will DIE very quickly because without it you cannot live.
The level of arrogance, smugness and stupidity which comes from you being protected from facing the scientific facts of life and the Universe is ARTIFICIAL and TEMPORARY.
More meds, Turak. Quick.
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Wrong. I am a vegetarian. All meat and dairy food products are not only bad for you: they kill you. Milk is bad for you. Milk from cows is designed for baby calves. The over-richness of cows milk is so a baby calf can grow to 900 Lbs in less than a year. HUmans are not designed to drink cows milk.
I know what I'm talking about. Look at this 6-part video.by a medical doctor. You want to believe ini the fallacy of professional medicine? Then study the medical facts.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zG_tn3KAXNE&feature=related
My mother and other people I knew dies in hospitals from the treatments. I've been in hospitals. I've found out thee scams and the bullshit. Listen to this 6-part video at least 3 times. Once the facts start seeping into your brain: you will understand why humans including all hujman children should NEVER drink cows milk. The propaganda you were raised on is a product of a dairy industry.
The truth is that YOU are a fake.
The fact is: you're REVERSING everything so you won't have to face that FACTS. Your computer shit generation os idiots who 'CHOOSE" to ignore that the sky is blue and insist on believing that the sky is green is a TEMPORARY DELUSION. Once you shut off your 2-dimensional illusion machine: all your delusions vanish.
Everything that is sold to you is BAD FOR YOU. Not just a few things. EVERYTHING.
All of capitalist civilization is BAD for you. Not just 1% of it. ALL OF IT.
Hospitals kill people. Hospitals were created for dying poeple who had no family to go there and DIE. The original word: "HOSPICE" was intended and a hospitable institution for people who were starving to death in Holland: the richest protestant nation in Europe.
I have done my RESEARCH and I know what I speak of.
The reason you are reversing yoiur perceptions and trying to deny the facts I tell you is because YOU ARE A TIOTAL FAKE.
You are responsiblel for your own health. The IDEA that other people are supposed to be responsible for taking care iof you and fixing you is STUPID and does not work..
If you don't want to get sick: then life a healthy life style. Eat healthy unprocessed vegetables. Do not cook your foood before you eat it because cooking food destroys all the nutrition in that food.
Until you study the SCIENCE of nutrition and until you face the facts which Science has proven by repeated testing to be TRUE: you will be an idiot who ties to deny scientifically proven facts.
90% of black people are lactose intolerant. Humans have only recently evolved to accept milk as food past infancy, mainly cultures that lived alongside domestic animals, such as Swedish descendents.
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Medical facts and science prove all your bullshit is pure fabrication. he human digestive system is that of a herbivore: not an omnivore: we have long intestines. Meat eaters have short intestines. If they didn't they would develop colon cancers which is what happens to people who eat meat and fish. Check the science before you open your mouth. There are world class athletes in all sports who are vegetarians.
Your statistics are NOT scientific facts; they are only a reflection of the world population of humans who are not living as they are designed to live.
You're an enemy of the Occupy movement and you will no be tolerated here any more. You have been excommunicated from all responses to your trolling by ME.
What I find interesting, is gorillas are so muscular, yet they eat little meat if any.
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What is the magical ingredient in meat that cannot be gotten from supplements?
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I am asking you. I think humans have a responsibility to not eat meat. We used to get B12 vitamin from soil stuck to vegetables, in modernity, we need to supplement. Humans cannot evolve fast enough to meet the changing social and physical environments. First humans could not digest milk, 90% of blacks still cannot. Only cultures who lived alongside dairy animals became tolerant of milk past infancy. Gorillas are very muscular, they really don't eat meat. We are humans, we transcend this omnivore/herbivore argument is my point, we are not slaves to this doctrine, we have choice to be vegetarian and to supplement if needed.
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Veal is excessively cruel, I am glad you are aware. Why can't those who want to eat meat eat "natural death meat", or something along those lines, why abuse animals so much? Meat production is wasteful of water and other resources. Please, I like your posts, I think you should take some time watching some meat videos on Youtube, even if you don't want to. Seriously. And there is a big difference between a grasshopper and a cow.
Don't answer this asshole: he's a troll He is AGAINST the Occupy movement Recognize your enemies and kick them OUT of this forum by refusing to have ANYTHING to do with them.
Once they find out nobody will pay any attention to them they will LEAVE
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Next. Exactly. You can't even stick to your own argument, you just insult, instead of debate and share info.
Scientific facts are not debatable
Scientific facts are not insults
you get t insulted by the scientific facts don't talk to me: talk to the facts
you don't want to do your own research; stay out of forums
you don't need any supplements at all. Plants have all the nutritious element for a healthy body and mind. Do your own research and stop expecting other people to educate you. Educate yourself about nutrition and vegetarians
OMG I was advocating your side of the argument. And yes, because of modern advances, unless you eat dirty food, you need B12 supplement if you are pure vegetarian who eats thoroughly-washed food with perfect hygiene.
I've been a vegetarian for 20 years and not needed one supplement. Fact. Deal with it or pop a pill. You want to believe in pills: you're an ignoramus.
get this fucking asshole off this forum. Do not respond to his trolling. HE is a red herring and he stinks of anti-OWS sentiments.
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You are the troll that needs to go. You don't fool anyone with your many user names. You're still just a psychopath. You have no authority and you are nothing.