Forum Post: I don't wanna work...coz 1% is paying 40% of the taxes all day!
Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 15, 2011, 6:41 p.m. EST by parchment101
(15)
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Even Freegans put in the effort - EARN - whatever they find. Too difficult a concept for OWS worshippers.
That is a heavy burden to carry. Just think, if the income of our country was distributed more evenly the burden would be all of ours to share.
no
the resources were already there
1 percent owns 40 percent of the taxable wealth - that is why they pay 40 percent of the taxes. Besides, the amount they pay is being drastically reduced and as a result, public services are suffering. This is the main arguement - why/how does 1 percent own 40 percent of the taxable wealth???
Sorry buddy Bankers don't earn what they make! They basically steal it from the people! They produce nothing and contribute nothing to the GDP
I am trying to find a job and find any income. I have two degrees and ten years of working experience. I applied to MCdonalds to Walmart without any job opporunities. Why? Because I am told im over qualified..
Over qualified to flip a burger or put stock into a shelf.. Really?!
OWS: "Down with Wall Street." "Down with capitalism." "Down with the rich."
Why? WTF knows????
No one is saying "Down with the rich", or any of the things you quote actually. Be sure to quote actual quotes versus "thoughts" or "impressions". See, those two things dont get quotes because they are not quotes.
OWS, as I understand it, believe the 1% of America's money earners have been exempt from paying their fair share to sustain our public services, reduced deficits, and pay for ongoing financial crisis (indeed put in place by the 1%). As a member of OWS, I believe that this way of living is unsustainable, and is robbing American's (like my sister and her kids, my mom, and my dad) of their homes and property because of the increase in debt and decrease in 'value'.
All those things aside, fear mongerers stand out pretty clearly since the past couple of years, both Democrats and Republicans have used it for their own political agenda. Coming up with false quotes is easily recognizable these days.
Are you SERIOUS? Go to the thread posted by FObama. Littered with OWS people deriding a man's accumulation of wealth. My quotes were not fabrications whatsoever.
Using your own analysis, please answer these questions- who received Obama's wealth redistribution payments? Who paid them? Are you not familiar with our tax code. Reference that it is indeed a progressive system. My sister RECEIVES money each year from the Federal Gov't for taxes. I just cut a check for $40k for taxes. Who pays? If you have never spoken with a so-called rich person about their taxes and "fair share" then it would probably educate you better than rehashing talking points.
I happen to be of that 1% objectiveobserver. And, there is not end in sight for that to continue. So, it is not in MY best interest to increase the tax on wealthy gains incomes...believe me.
I tend to stay away from threads posted by people with names like 'FObama' or 'FBush' or 'F'(Anything', because I imagine that thread will be filled with more emotion than logic. So, I will decline at reading those posts. However, I encourage you to look at 'official' or unofficial OWS websites and read notes from general assemblies, etc, where people actually vote on collective views. This is in contrast to anonymous or rogue comments in these forums.
Obama's wealth distribution payments HAVE NOT BEEN PAID. They are part of our increasing debt that your, my, and future generations children will be responsible for paying, and therefor enslaved to debt. I appreciate your rather direct questions, I think thats good. But, I would imagine you would also understand that all of these rescue packages, decisions for 'restabalizing' the economy, are NOT PAID when they are given. Yes, Obama paid people with imaginary money. Its called the Federal Reserve. You have to go back (way back) to before tax code was even written to sort out where the money actually comes from. It comes from our future generations.
True. The money is largely imaginary under the Fed.. But the principle source of our gov't's income has and will always be the upper income earners. I am even more perplexed that you would question what "fair share" even you pay. And, unless you keep your income hidden or laundered, you DO pay more than your fair share, as do I. That's the part of your post that irked me most.
First of all, with all due respect, I think that it is false to say that either you or I are part of the1%. I am a scientist, of sorts, with a very very stable job future and make plenty of money. But, I am not benefiting for capital gains exemptions. And, knowing that you only paid 40K in taxes means you also dont really fall in the category of profit earners that OWS refers too.
Yes, your (and my) taxes are probably much higher than they should be. And, relatively speaking, we pay more than both the poor and the ultra rich. BUT, the important and very SPECIFIC discrepancy is on profits in America. These corporate profits (that make up >40 of our economy right now) are staying in the hands of CEOs and investors, and is taxed at a MUCH lower rate that your or my wages. Indeed, the theory behind Keynesian economic policy is that the people that keep this money would 'reinvest' in their company to spur job growth and creativity.
But, thats not happening. Nothing even close to that. In fact, these companies continue to lay people off, continue to decrease medical coverage benefits, continue to decrease contribution to 401 K's etc etc, effectively marginalizing the working middle class.
This is what I feel this mostly reduces down to. This greed has invaded every aspect of our modern life, from media to our environment....its all reduced to corporate profit. That is not American. That is not what our founding fathers envisioned for this land. I believe you would agree with me on that. I also believe you want what is best for you, your family, and country just as I do.
Join Us, They Might Be Giants, released 19 July 2011 OMG...revolution by album release. "MikIhail, I can see these libertarians are going to make things difficult for us..." F. Castro
awesome quote!!!
We understand why you are frighted. Change is unnerving. This must be very difficult for you. You and the others who are posting negative comments on this forum are feeling threatened and uncertain. We understand. These are anxious times.Try to consider this from the perspective of those on "the other side" and then remember, THERE IS NO OTHER SIDE. There is one country, under God.
This is a new leaderless movement, barely one month old. It is messy and confusing, as it should be. 951 cities joined the protest today. We have never seen anything like this in the entire history of the planet.
Were OWS not an authentic movement, this would never have happened.
Join us.
There needs to be a leader though or it can be dissolved and crushed quickly though.
Hello I'm Quanzo Pfter, Chief Executive of Ramon Film Productions in Uganda. I make over 9000 thousand US dollars every day, and my corporation spans 1000 workers over seven different oceans. Here is a trailer to a film that I've personally had a hand in: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BymeLkZ7GqM
Anyways, I just want to say that I'm really rich because of all my hard work and it had nothing to do with my willingness to take risks with my family and the general lottery of life. So all of you "99%" communist nazi bangers should just get a job and stop smoking weed like they said on Fox News. So what if I can make unlimited contributions to my representatives? So can you!
Don't believe me? Here's a picture of me with my latest invention: http://www.travelfunny.com/funny-pictures/funny-africa/funny-nigeria-02.jpg
Anyways you guys should know that Democratic Socialism breaks the Second Law of Thermodynamics, so there's no way it could work in our Capitalist system.
Quanzo Pfter
Yes it can work, its working in Sweden, Norway, Finland, Germany, Denmark, and apparently you seem to be a little ignorant for confusing these philosophies with nazism, which is a highly racist and elitist which is contrary to the ideas of marx, lenin and sympathist to the ideologies. However most people here are some form of social democrats,liberals, or capitalists who just simply believe that not every who works hard is going to make over 250000, we are people who say people deserve to make whatever they want, just don't let our jobs, education, and health be the consequence, and no I do not smoke weed. (by the way steve jobs smoked weed.)
lol cant you tell i was being sarcastic? the trailer should have been a big hint haha. It was a response to all the unverified "i'm rich so there" posts that have been going around lately.
sorry for misjudging you, I just hate so much of the ignorance in this country, I feel like I have to go on this crusade of educating people who apparently did not pay attention in their history and economics classes.
That's because the Top 10% Management Group of Business & Government controls 2/3 of all Wealth & Income while the Bottom 90% control 1/3 -- very unjust, and very top-heavy, right? However, Many more people will come to your side when you are proactive (for “new” Business & Government solutions), instead of reactive (against “old” Business & Government solutions), which is why what we most immediately need is a comprehensive “new” strategy that implements all our various socioeconomic demands at the same time, regardless of party, and although I'm all in favor of taking down today's ineffective and inefficient Top 10% Management System of Business & Government, there's only one way to do it – by fighting bankers as bankers ourselves; that is, using a Focused Direct Democracy organized according to our current Occupations & Generations. Consequently, I have posted a 1-page Summary of the Strategically Weighted Policies, Organizational Operating Structures, and Tactical Investment Procedures necessary to do this at:
http://getsatisfaction.com/americanselect/topics/on_strategic_legal_policy_organizational_operational_structures_tactical_investment_procedures
Join
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/StrategicInternationalSystems/
because we need 100,000 “support clicks” at AmericansElect.org to support a Presidential Candidate -- such as any given political opportunist you'd like to draft -- in support of the above bank-focused platform.
Most importantly, remember, as cited in the first link, that as Bank Owner-Voters in your 1 of 48 "new" Business Investment Groups (or "new" Congressional Committees) you become the "new" Congress replacing the "old" Congress according to your current Occupation & Generation, called a Focused Direct Democracy.
Therefore, any Candidate (or Leader) therein, regardless of party, is a straw man, a puppet; it's the STRATEGY – the sequence of steps – that the people organize themselves under, in Military Internet Formation of their Individual Purchasing & Group Investment Power, that's important. In this, sequence is key.
Why? Because there are Natural Social Laws – in mathematical sequence – that are just like Natural Physical Laws, such as the Law of Gravity. You must follow those Natural Social Laws or the result will be Injustice, War, etc.
The FIRST step in Natural Social Law is to CONTROL the Banks as Bank Owner-Voters. If you do not, you will inevitably be UNJUSTLY EXPLOITED by the Top 10% Management Group of Business & Government who have a Legitimate Profit Motive, just like you, to do so.
Consequently, you have no choice but to become Candidates (or Leaders) yourselves as Bank Owner-Voters according to your current Occupation & Generation.
So please JOIN the 2nd link so we can make our support clicks at AmericansElect.org when called for, at exactly the right time, by an e-mail from that group, in support of the above the bank-focused platform. If so, then you will see and feel how your goals can be accomplished within the above strategy as a “new” Candidate (or Leader) of your current Occupation & Generation.
Some people don't want to work but there are millions of unemployed that would love to have a job.
It is disgusting that you would characterize the suffering of the American people in such a manner.
We didn't cause this wall street did. They get bailed out and we get the finger.
The point of this movement is that the 1 % leech off of us and the government as well, and were tired of it, all we ask is that they pay there fair share so we can have a decent shot at life. it makes no sense they own the companies we pay mortgage to, buy food from, but won't provide work,or the right to live. How the heck do we compete and survive, without even being able to afford the proper education to eat and survive?
DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUDE chill bro. You can have some weed too. And some kool-aid bro! whoa, dude so trippy! Where am i?
Too bad your parents did not abort you! Ehat a waste of semen! You are an asshole! Fuck boy!
www.getmoneyout.com/
Many thanks for allowing me to draw you out as nothing more than a petty thief - "that is where the wealth is". You want to rise up by taking from and forcing down others, you are merely a taker, offering neither ingenuity nor sweat equity. OWS is the Zero Sum Gang, aka, Communists without guns, I have more, you have less, therefore I must have taken it from you. Admit it - you are on the short end of the economic stick, you are green with envy, you never figured out how things work and you don't want to break a sweat to risk and succeed or fail that the rest of us did, so you want to rearrange the laws of private property in the name of equality to compel me via gunpoint (government) to hand over to you whatever I have that you did nothing to earn. OWS is the beginning of a new Reign of Terror (go look it up), and you are nothing more than a Robespierre wannabe. My pleasure to do whatever I can to oppose you, and I'll continue to teach/advocate that others do the same.
Here's the thing. There is only so much money to go around. It would be absolutely impossible for everyone to be financially wealthy. The whole premise of capitalism is exploitation. One needs capital and labor to earn a profit and then the profit is sifted off the top to create more capital and purchase more labor to create more profit, etc. etc. This process continues and usually the person or nation that has the most capital early on creates the most capital (or wealth). That's all fine, no one wants to take capitalist success away from anyone, but we must understand that not everyone can be wealthy. It's an impossibility. In order for those at the top to have the most wealth there have to be people at the bottom who don't have much. Therefore, and I think this is a major goal of OWS, society must ensure that those at the bottom can make a living wage to provide for basic needs. In other words the capitalist must pay enough for the labor to provide the laborer with a decent living. For example, a worker earning ($9.60/hr or $20,000/ year basically cannot live in our society (at least not in the town I live in.) They could hardly pay a rent, let alone food, clothing and utilities. For a civilization to continue it must provide enough to the poorest or it will end up with rebellions/revolutions. We've seen this repeatedly in history.
You've confirmed, as I stated before, OWS focus is money money money, not "equality". We do not operate under pure capitalism, but in a highly regulated marketplace. The system is skewed because of government intervention, not in spite of it, and the "exploitation" you note is a willfully naive description of free business contract - if you don't want to contribute then go away and live via the government "safety net." No, there is plenty of money to go around for those unafraid to do what it takes to earn it. Any other explanation is pure conspiracy/delusion. Yes, progressivism is important to a healthy society, even libertarians like myself who are intellectually honest will support that goal, but incrementally, via politics. OWS looks like a genuine spasm of popular discontent, but it is already a hijacked political entity. So now you have new masters. OWS masquerades as a youthful, vigorous, democratic force for "good" but in truth has become a left-wing scam energized by money from numerous far left entities with the goals of class warfare, confiscation of private property in the name of the "public good" and righting invented historical imbalances. Yes, study history. The only way OWS can achieve it's true goals is by fear, threat, violence or insurrection. We have been here before and we know how it ends and that is exactly what OWS financiers want - chaos. First remove the corruption and hypocrisy in your own "organization".
You do not view capitalism and how it works the way I do. That's fine. I disagree that there is enough money for all to make it as "wealthy entrepreneurs" or "successful businessmen" or whatever it is you want them to be. The basic premise of capitalism and the amount of money in the system will never allow all to be "rich." Therefore, I believe that we must understand that power always tilts away from the worker who has, in most cases, a family to support and much at risk. It's hard for a worker to say no to a job when there are others lined up to do the same work.
I don't think OWS is talking about equality. Fairness, maybe, a livable wage for all, but not absolute equality. Where do you see or hear that?
And, I hear a lot of nasty stuff, even violent, on these boards, but not from OWS supporters, just from folks who are scared of this movement.
Your comments are very fair. Agreed all can't be rich and that needs to be addressed in a stable society. Agreed on the concept of "livable wage". Disagree on all else based on tough personal experience - 20 years ago was broke WITH family, went back to basics, worked 2+ full time jobs every day for a decade and still doing at least 16 hrs on a good day. Exploited? Yup. Making a whole lot of money? Yup. I also do my part hiring lots of workers and overtipping service workers and waiters and donations to everything including big taxes to government of all kinds- I'm the 1% - and I'm the problem????? With less taxation you know how many more people I would hire? THERE'S THE FOREGONE MULTIPLIER EFFECT TIMES HOW MANY THOUSANDS OF EMPLOYERS, not from a defeated phony "jobs bill". This is where OWS loses the real working America and really that's too bad because your fundamental concerns are valid, I've been there, but the method and associations and appearance are suspect at best and the rest of us want to see a focused argument, not George Soros style leftism parading as false progressivism.
Thanks for the civil discussion. It's a great way to learn. I'm really curious, though, because I've heard a lot about how the tax breaks for the rich are necessary because they are the job creators. Okay, but wait a minute. Those tax breaks have been in place for a decade and are still in place but where are the jobs? Next, you'll say it's the regulations preventing the jobs from flowing,but I don't know. The facts are the facts. The tax cuts have not created jobs. How can that be explained?
You're welcome, and agreed civility is better! Right, the decade old tax cuts don't create new jobs because businesses learned to operate in the older economy, some took the profits, others invested and lost, then everything went south in 2008, razor thin profits or losses resulted, debts rose, new loans were difficult to obtain, hyper-efficiency was implemented, a liberal prez pushed national health insurance and no evidence of sustained consumer confidence returning, businesses hoarded cash for a rainy day out of fear but it's been raining for 3 years so workers are getting the hit. There's no centralized business demon, just rational behavior. Yes, big biz needs to loosen the reins on their cash, how about expansion-only based cuts, all they'd ask in return is to stop the death by taxes so they can see profits return, a business is there for profit, not to create jobs and without profits there is no reason for a business to exist. I'm not advocating new tax cuts, just economic stability and fiscal sanity.
Read Ayn Rand much??? Yeah I went through that phase too in college. And that was 20 yrs ago...and financially speaking I'm doing quite well thank you very much. I guess you can call me the upper 25%,
I would go back and review Ayn Rand and I'm pretty sure she was against the sort of gangterism where buisnesses team up with government to exploit the individual who relied on his own efforts to create their business. I believe that is somewhere in Atlas Shrugged.
In any case, I was responding to a statistic you threw out there which, presumably, was supposed to some kind of proof that the so called 1% pay their "fair" share.
For me it goes beyond money but the damage that corporate entities wreak on our world. We are all caught up in this corporate web including those in the 1%.
I know there is no convincing you, I was the same way when I was a fan of rush limbaugh, ayn rand, etc many years ago. Life experience has lead me away this way of thinking.
On second read you do seem a reasonable enough leftist, so this libertarian wants to know how did you fall for the easy way and decide your methods can't work through an imperfect system and help it evolve, but have to take from everyday people who did nothing to you? I don't listen to rush limbaugh and never read Ayn Rand, and OWS is supposed to be about ending corruption...so why OWS fixation on wealth?? We know why, the corruption thing is a great big ruse, the OWS deluded minions and corrupt unions want their piece of the money action and will happily carve up all the social fabric to get it. As an astute student of human history you know ending "corruption" is not possible, how naive can you possibly be, that is what the criminal justice system is for. So you can have your utopian left-wing government-guaranteed solutions, I'll take my struggle for personal liberty and work to change the system by representative government, not fear of the mob, I have no need for your "resistance" or rabble. See ya on election day! (yes, regular elections, that's how we do it in America)
You are indirectly proving OWS's point about weath inequality.
The reason why this 1% is shouldering 40% is because that is where the wealth is and their wealth has increased dramatically these last 30 years compared to everyone's wealth or income which has pretty much stagnated or barely kept up with inflation.
So thank you for the factoid proving OWS's point.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/viewform?hl=en_US&pli=1&formkey=dFlNNHJTRlZwMWs5ZjlhTWN0NlZReHc6MQ#gid=0
Its not the taxes that bother us, its the corruption. As for putting in the effort, what do you think all the people camped out in Zuccatti Park, toughing the freezing cold weather, calling meets to try and reach a resolution and consensus are doing? What do you think people who spend hours every day promoting the movement from home are doing? What do you think the people who work and go to school full time, but are still driving down to their local occupy location to support change are doing? You underestimate the people of the movement, because you don't bother to take the time to get to know any of us. That, sir, makes you ignorant. Don't assume. Ask questions. Discuss. To sit back and point fingers makes you no better than the very concepts you are insulting in the first place.
if corruption bothers you why do you wan to trust the government to do more things
At what point did I say I want to trust the government to do more things? Please do not put words in my mouth, or anyone else's. Ask questions before making statements. I, in fact, am a Libertarian and believe in limited government. I do believe government has a place in regulating certain industries at certain levels, and protecting the consumer's rights when they can not protect themselves. However, overall, I believe in a very small government because the more power government has the more power they have to auction off to corporations who lobby them. It's an incentive based system. Take away the incentive and you take away a lot of the problem.
then why do you support this movement at all?
How much is the tax in the US ?
There are several different tax rates in the USA, and they differ from state to state. There are also many different taxes. Social Security tax, medicare tax, Federal tax, state tax, etc. On average I would say we pay 20%.
Sorry, but 20% are absurd - just to little. E.g. in Europe you won't find a state with that little taxes ( + obligatory insurance ).
So I really can't understand why many people are cry and see the end of the economy and democracy, when someone speaks about higher taxes for more social security.
Especially as the US are the country in the western world with the highest new indebtedness in 2011.
boring!
Is "Because" to long of a word to type?
He don't wanna work - you have to understand this...