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Forum Post: I Don't Support Our Troops

Posted 6 years ago on Jan. 31, 2013, 5:52 p.m. EST by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

It's time someone said it. This is 2013 not September 12, 2001. If some dumb, deluded, brainwashed, nationalist kid wants to kill people or be killed let him have at it, But don't expect my support or any other Americans. You are defending my freedom and liberty no more than you are spreading peace and love at the barrel of a gun. Getting through school is not an excuse. Needing a job is not an excuse. Fuck man getting out of the ghetto is no excuse to go bomb the shit out of another ghetto. Don't get it twisted I am no pacifist. Fuck some islamists up the ass with a metal rod. At the same time I endorse a metal rod no lube up the ass of the entire over 18 congregation at the westboro baptist church, ya dig? Just stop it though with the glorification and admiration of the military. Same applies for the police, they don't protect me and are little more than revenue agents for the state and security for the 1%. I do support firemen and emt's they are trying to help people and save lives, every guy with a gun for his job wants to pull the trigger.



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[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 6 years ago

Brain De Palma say Iraq is worse than Vietnam.


RT: Your drama 'Redacted,' which deals with the war in Iraq, provoked political debate in America with claims it portrays the US soldiers in a negative light. Are you sensitive to such critiques? Even your film's title makes it clear that the truth about the war in Iraq has been edited and hidden from the American public.

BDP: Unfortunately, in America you can never say anything negative about the American troops even though they are over in a country they shouldn't be, doing things where a lot of innocents are getting killed. They are all valued warriors.

I think our foreign policy is incorrect, I don't think we should have been in Iraq at all, I think we were lied to by our government. When you put young boys in situations when they don't know why they are there, it's even worse than Vietnam. Not only are you in a terrible environment, where everybody wants to kill you, and you walk around and suddenly the earth explodes, your best friend's just lost his leg, you detest the people you're supposed to be fighting for and you do crazy things. That's what 'Redacted' is about, and that's what 'Casualties of War' was about. These wars make no sense and crazy things happen.

[-] 2 points by Builder (4202) 6 years ago

An estimated million dead civilians, and four million displaced or fled from the country in fear, and shrub said he "liberated" Iraq from a tyrant?


[-] 3 points by Middleaged (5140) 6 years ago

Deep Thanks for the Link, I kept putting it off to look for these kinds of human costs for the Iraqi Occupation. Excellent info from multiple sources in just one article.

Of course it still just scratches the surface of the True Cost of War... Refugees alone are victims of much more crime and oppression... disease, rape, murder, lost of family members, loss of income, loss of contribution to society, strain on economy, strain on housing, strain on food sources... all lead to higher inflation pressures on food, housing, consumer goods, ... then there is resentment, prejudice, hate crimes, oppression of women, abuse of women and children... religious persecution

[-] 2 points by Builder (4202) 6 years ago

So much hatred for the west.

It's like fomenting hatred is what this whole "spreading democracy" trip is all about. I'm aware that these criminals in power need dangerous enemies to convince us that we need protection, but do they think people just let bygones be bygones? Do Americans think that way?

As for the Iraqi refugees, most of them ended up in Syria. We all know what's happening there right about now.

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 6 years ago

Well, I looked up foment. Hm...maybe we do foment as a nation. Maybe our people do start shit. I have always felt like I grew up in a frontier. I felt that there were always bullies and aggressive boys/guys/men. I'm not sure you get separation from that in Latin America or Europe. I felt safer in Asia, I know that. But I get that common people in Central or South America are not agressive. Gangs and Military Training ... seems to lead to the creation of "Bad Boys".

Probably most people will agree that if you get away from the military and the gangs ... life is simple and good.

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 6 years ago

wow, didn't know that refugees end up in Syria. The Elite are sorely mistaken and becoming implicated by their dumbing down of people program... The things they say now in politics are so stupid that they will come back to bite them. Everyone knows what is going on is that we get false info. Americans are not forgiving... US Males are not going to forget anything... most likely they are strategic thinkers.

I forgot what I was going to add... The whole program of keeping info secret, dumbing down people, and lying about what is going on ... that is just a flawed strategy. Whatever they are doing to our kids ... we will overcome that. We have the knowledge already. We are already education and can think for ourselves. The world has never seen the intelligence of the average country man/woman ... we are not dumber than anyone else. We see what is going on. We will know who our enemy is. We will know how we are getting screwed. We know who is screwing us. We are no less smart than Europeans or people in the Middle East. Don't worry, just relax, just take it easy, just have a rest....

The US may break apart into smaller countries, but what ever happens ... the common man will win, probably by a combination of country people with conservative values and ... city people with sophisticated ideas.

[-] 2 points by Builder (4202) 6 years ago

My inference was not that Americans (such a diverse and varied group to begin with) are dumb, but that the US elite think that what they do to people will simply be forgotten.

Just look to Iran for evidence that people never forget being screwed over, and having their relatives murdered for the greed of foreigners.

Was just reading the following link about how insider trading is being exposed (like it's something new (rolls eyes) in congress)


[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 6 years ago

Totally with u. I know you didn't mean USA people are dumb. Ja, Ich wiesse das politician sind scheisskopf (I agree that the politicians are stupid)

I don't want to defend the US people or myself if you are a reproter and an investigator of many countries. If I am talking to a computer, then I think data collection is okay here. We can transmit data. Proably when we type text we send date to many data collection devices.

Sorry for the side track.... Business insider is a good source of info. I havent clicked on it yet..

Look I might get confused on discussion, but will try to express that in these text messages here. Think I am familiar with the BI article on insider trading - will check it out - Yes, I don't have Iran on my radar. I guess I should dig into your info about murder, corruption, and memory.

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 6 years ago

From the same link;

As of November 4, 2006, the U.N. High Commissioner for Refugees estimated that 1.8 million Iraqis had been displaced to neighboring countries, and 1.6 million were displaced internally, with nearly 100,000 Iraqis fleeing to Syria and Jordan each month.[74]

As of 2007 more Iraqis had lost their homes and become refugees than the population of any other country. Over 3.9 million people, close to 16 percent of the Iraqi population, have become uprooted. Of these, around 2 million have fled Iraq and flooded other countries, and 1.9 million are estimated to be refugees inside Iraq.

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 6 years ago

Scope of Study too small, Good Detail, great info.

It is great info and mostly complete...but war is a large scope of interest or scope of study. How can we get Joe Six Pack to read these Forums. How? I try to write to key words or key language. I like to think my words are searchable somehow.

[-] 2 points by Builder (4202) 6 years ago

I suspect "keywords" have been supplanted already.

Directed searches still work, but how to give direction?

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 6 years ago

Displaced. Supplanted. I need to get informed. I need to look up Directed searches.

[-] 2 points by Builder (4202) 6 years ago

Search parameters are the largest emerging money spinner on the planet.

A directed search uses product names, and/or model numbers.

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 6 years ago

Thanks, I think an editor mentioned that. I just... well, now of course my computer is attacked.... by sites for directed searches.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 6 years ago

The Iraqis themselves hanged Saddam Hussein so they had apparently considered him a tyrant and sentenced him to death so the "liberation" from a tyrant was not far-fetched.

The disruptions, civilian casualties, and refugees largely started with the power vacuum that the U.S. had created by dismissing the Ba'athist party members in the Iraqi armed forces. Iraq was not a cohesive country like Germany or Japan after World War II -- it had many centrifugal components divided on tribal, ideological, and sectarian bases.

[-] 3 points by Builder (4202) 6 years ago

US military supplied Hussein with weapons in his war against Iran.

The "disruptions, civilian casualties, and refugees" started when Iraq was bombed in the second invasion of Iraq, which was illegal, and an act that should be tried in the Hague military court of international law.

Perhaps we should talk about using depleted uranium rounds, and the battle of Fallujah? Any sane person can see that this is an act of genocide against another nation. Not to mention an affront to US troops.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 6 years ago

Why do you think the U.S. held grudges against Iran? Has Iran been such a saintly country that it supplied armor-piercing explosive devices to the insurgents in Iraq to kill U.S. soldiers in their humvees there? Who attacked the U.S. and Iraqi personnel working on restoring water and electricity?

Iran was taking advantage of the power vacuum after the fall of Saddam Hussein to expand its influence into Iraq and helped caused the long-enduring chaos in Iraq (of course, the Iraqi people or more aptly the various sects in Iraq are partly responsible for Iraq's sufferings). The U.S. exercised restraint not to intervene in Iraq after completing Operation Desert Storm, probably on the advice of the foreign policy advisors to George Herbert Walker Bush's administration. The action taken was to create no-fly zones to protect the Iraqi civilians from Saddam Hussein's air force.

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 6 years ago

Google operation Ajax.

I'm off to work.

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 6 years ago

Let's see

1) Military Indoctrinates the young kids with words and techniques, they talk about honor, discipline, service to country, respect, commitment, becoming a man/woman, moving into adulthood and a career. No one blames the kids much if they didn't learn about the questionable nature of US Wars overseas. That is why it is called reruitment, kids get persuaded to join the military, and they have parents and peers that may support the military. It turns out that many of the people that join the military are from "military families".

2) Yes, war is hell. And the media doesn't report the true picture of war, the devestation to economies, businesses, families, rape, murder, refugees, land mines, clusterbombs, fire, napalm, number of wounded, allied forces dead & wounded, civilians dead & wounded, total refugees... US wars are pussy wars in the sense that the US doesn't experience the damage on our soil.

3) There are no real investigations in the USA anymore. There has never been a good public discourse on Vietnam, that is why we keep going back into wars that only congress and the wealthy & powerful want to places that can never mount an attack on USA with an army or navy or air force. The Obfuscation of media & investigations in the USA is broad and deeper than we can imagine. We have never had a public debate about the CIA, its purpose, it's limitations, what it has been doing since 1944, the broken international law, the CIA attack on democracy... it goes on and on.

4) Without Investigations in the USA, democracy is dead, and corruption is the way of life... just like the sub-prime mortgage fraud, LIBOR Rate Fraud, Bank money laundering Fraud, RICO violations by our government officials, and the constant obfuscation by congress and coverup of banking activities.

5) Without Real US Investigations we can't really blame our kids or our people for being uninformed.

6) Federal Officials Dehumanize people in other countries and individuals in the USA. This allows them to take the country to war and continue the war, start drone bombing campaigns, take away constitutional & Geneva Convention Rights, and create kill list.

7) We have to give our kids in the military our support to get them home safe and enable them to fight if they are in a combat situation, but we can tell congress to cut off the War Spending, the War Funds, We can speakout against War, and speakout against any War over 500 miles from the USA. Congress never declared war since WWII. Therefore, it is only money that keeps these wars going. I would say under the constitution all the wars from Korea till now are illegal. The congress has to declare war.

8) Yeah, you have something there about men with guns. If you choose to be a mercenary or join the military to shoot at people ... I think this a person whose behavior can be questioned and criticized ...and might not be mature person. There might be some bully or sadist in a person that is on a power trip and wants to shoot people... to put it mildly or conservatively.

[-] 1 points by Narley (272) 6 years ago

I would add most Americans have no idea what war is. It’s just a ten minute update on the nightly news. It’s just an academic discussion. Americans don’t feel the wars. War has no impact on their lives. I’d even say most don’t even care. They just don’t feel the effects of war.

At the very least I’d like to see a sizable war tax. It just seems to me that if our sons and daughters are getting killed and maimed in foreign lands we should all feel the pain in some manner. Not to mention a war tax probably would have put enough pressure on politicians to end this madness.

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 6 years ago

Yes, it is definitely broken. I'm not sure yet what to think about a tax... I'm guessing the compass in congress is so far off, that they are so out of touch, that they are serving financial interest .... and well also that the US Voter, Taxpayer is so numb ... that the Tax won't help. And if they get money money, there is no guarentee they won't just spend more. ... It is not like they are doing even partly well with the budget or have enen part control of the spending.

I mean we use money, but the federal government is the creator of the Fiat currency... why the hell should we pay TBTF banks interest to loan us money to pay our bills. The Treasury can create the Fiat and not pay interest.

[-] 2 points by Narley (272) 6 years ago

I don’t like taxes either. But the fastest way to get the masses to pressure the politicians is to tax war. When the war ends, the tax ends. I just think if Americans are being killed we all need to feel the pain.

I’m open to other suggestions? But the people, meaning tens of millions of people are the only ones who can end the war madness. I say do whatever it takes to get “the people” interested in ending wars. This whole war thing has been talked to death on every news show for years with no effect. Only when the people personally feel the war will it end.

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 6 years ago

Good Question what are the alternatives?

1) War Tax, has downside that congress poorly administers most of our taxes now in worthless wars, many economic concerns such as being recessionary in long recessionary cycle, doesn't address deflation of wages & inflationary pressures on goods & services like food, gas, transportation housing, health care, education.

2) Implement the Draft, has down side of wealthy & elite avoiding combat, military service, and creating an elite within the military.... plus the poor end up being the ones that die, ...plus tends to lower the quality of military service members, ... possibly creates a meme of rich kids that avoid the draft and become stinking capitalists.

3) Protests/Activism, has down side that has had limited success with all volunteer army, mercenary armies, contractor support, a congress that never declares war & spends like a "Drunken Sailor".

4) Expand US Democracy, safe spaces, common spaces, grassroots, Third Party candidates, Free National Debates with Free Agendas, ...create free media time for all candidates (Nationalize media for Political Speach), ...There is a downside here too ... you never know how many decades it might take to spread education about democracy.

5) Private Investigations of War, Sponsored Investigations of War, Self publishing of War Documentaries & War Investigations, Self Promoting and Activist Promoting of real data on US Wars.

6) Break up the US Media Cartel with Anti-Trust Laws. Downside is we don't yet have support or we don't know exactly how we can do that. (media as defined broadly: text books, newpapers, magazines, Radio, TV, Cable TV, News Channels on TV & Cable, but not the free internet)

7) Get Money out of Politics & Break up the huge Corporations with Anti-Trust Law & with RICO Violations Laws... downside here is designing a plan is murkey and could take years.

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 6 years ago

Sorry Narley. No war tax.

Wars (sorry, illegal invasions) are what make the congress rich. Make millionaires out of paupers in two years. It's the only representative ( I use that term loosely, because it's bogus) government that allows insider trading.

Invasions create huge profits for cogressional investors. There will be no end to illegal invasions while this situation remains.


[-] 1 points by Narley (272) 6 years ago

The US needs to get ALL military personnel out of Iraq and Afghanistan. We also need to close most of our foreign military bases. We need to stop being the world’s policeman. We need to stop spreading our version of good and evil to everyone else. I’ll support any effort to do any these things.

However, I find it difficult to be condensing to military men and women who are willing to die for what they believe it right. They do not have a voice in where and why we fight. They just follow orders. To condemn them is an outrage.

There could very well come a time when need people of such valor.


[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 6 years ago

justice served?

[-] 0 points by peacehurricane (293) 6 years ago

I agree with most of your post and I look forward to our country in a place that offers up something besides this option that is horrific for everyone. I do believe that soldiers do have certain ways of thinking in common with each other and probably police. Now this is something to consider because once we leave wdc behind there is yet the law enforcement though without fed money their budget will be less. If they were doing the job by original intent they would be arresting politicians and corporate heads. Why pick on the islamic with it metal rod have you personal dislike. I think that what we are doing to those countries with koran makes their good book true and not necessarily wrong doers. If they had put into prophetics of it they may have saved some of their home lands we have ruined.

[-] -1 points by highlander (-163) 6 years ago

There are too many people in this world who do not respect peace and love; they respect fear and power.

[-] -2 points by DeathsHead1 (-111) 6 years ago

So you celebrate the killing and crippling of our troops? Okay. How very progressive.

As for me I don't support any of the wars we've engaged in for the last 154 years.

But wishing ignorant kids joining the military death/mutilation is wrong. You are an ignorant asshole.

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 6 years ago

So we should have let Pearl Harbor attack go?
We should have waited for adolph to knock on our door?

[-] 0 points by DeathsHead1 (-111) 6 years ago

Got news for ya Miss Ignorant: your hero Roosevelt deliberately suckered the Japanese to attack . They had little choice considering the embargoes he enacted on them. His aim was to bring the US into the war in Europe.

[-] 1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 6 years ago

You mean that the Japanese didnt think that sending some planes to dive bomb the greatest industrial giant was a good idea?

That doing so, and no other moves planned afterwards, wasnt the plan?

That is impossible that a massive airforce base would be caught off guard, ASLEEP, by an entire flock of planes coming across the pacific, in the MIDDLE OF FUCKING WWII is not what really happened?

Really? Im shocked.....

[-] 1 points by Misaki (893) 6 years ago

They intended to hit the aircraft carriers, which were away on exercises.

Also the delayed translation of the declaration of war was unexpected.

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 6 years ago

Of course you are right - you always are - just ask yourself

[-] -3 points by highlander (-163) 6 years ago

I would stand and support 1 soldier over 10 pacifists

[-] 6 points by TwinkleMe (29) 6 years ago

Our military is just a tool to procure the agenda of the elite rulers. Never be deceived into thinking they care anything about you, our nation or the soldiers.
Henry Kissinger quote, trilateral commission- "Military men are just dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy."


[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 6 years ago

it doesn't take a man to feed into fear.