Forum Post: I Disagree With OWS
Posted 12 years ago on Nov. 17, 2011, 9:13 p.m. EST by RobertFemenella
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I agree that 99% (+/-) of the people in this country are unhappy about the economy and other current social situations. Just because you realize this does not put you on the cutting edge of an American version of the “Arab Spring.” Camping out in a park, tying up traffic and sidewalks, and creating havoc for local businesses and commuters (who are all part of that 99%) does not make you social revolutionaries. Getting arrested and maybe even getting your head busted for disobeying and probably antagonizing the police does not make you martyrs.
I am one of the majority of that 99% that works and pays taxes. I know unemployment is high and good jobs are scarce, but there are jobs to be had. Many of these are low-paying jobs and many are only part-time, but they are jobs. How about hanging out at a shape-up area with the day laborers and picking up some work? No? I didn’t think so. Being part of a “Movement” is definitely more life-enriching and fun, too.
I’m sorry if you took out $50,000 or $100,000 in student loans and now can’t find a job that will allow you to live the life style you want or feel entitled to, or even allow you to pay back your student loan. The decision to borrow that money was yours. You could have gone to a Community College for two years and not racked up an un-payable debt. You need to add a class on “Personal Responsibility” on your OWS agenda. You may be happy that President Obama is considering forgiving some or all of student loans, but I’m not. I paid for four college degrees for my family. (Two were received from a Community College.) Why should I have to pick up the slack for someone who made a bad financial decision?
If you think that banks are the bad guys, guess what, you’re right. If you want to do something about it, go camp out in Washington and tie up that rat-infested city. Bringing Washington to a halt would actually do some good because 99% of the elected officials that work there are useless at best, incompetent in general, and corrupt at worst. And you might consider getting rid of President Obama in 2012 because he and his buddies bailed out the banks with our money. But instead of getting back to the business of making loans, they just balanced their books, foreclosed on homes that should not have been foreclosed, stopped lending money, and gave out big bonuses in order to keep their “best” employees. These are the “best” employees who got them into the mess. If President Obama had older children he would have realized what every parent of a teenager knows – you don’t reward bad behavior. Thanks Barry, good work.
And a big shout at to my Republican friends out there – Have you seen who’s running? Are you kidding me? Is this the best alternative we have? If so, then we should all stop working now because we are four years away from the end of American life as we know it, regardless of who is in power.
Regretfully,
Robert Femenella
Neither of the two major parties is going to loosen the corporate fascists' death grip on the US economy, because they are both completely owned by said corporate fascists. You want real change? For for third parties, such as the Green Party, the Democratic Socialists, the Working Families, the Socialist Party. Yes. I said "socialist". No. Socialism is not a bad word. Democratic socialist nations in Europe have far lower unemployment, higher standards of living, greater overall per-capita prosperity, and ensure that their people are educated and have health care far better than we have. Either way, the two parties that have dominated our politics forever are not going to change anything. Vote them out. Vote in leaders who will work for the well-being of the People, not the bottom-lines of their corporate puppet-masters.
Chicken/egg, that's what your post amounts to. Either way, Occupy is aligned against the establishment, which is both WS and DC.
For decades now the corporations and special interests have had our "representatives" bought and paid for (both on the right and the left). Don't get distracted by the symptoms - we need to address the root cause. Concentrating our efforts on getting the money out of our politics is the best way we can create an environment in which further reforms can be realized. Until we end the current system of legalized bribery (campaign donations) and paid lobbying our politicians will continue to be the LAP DOGS of the corporations and special interests. What we need first and foremost is real, loop-hole free CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM!!!! If the corruption is not dealt with first, the chance of any other meaningful reforms becoming a reality is almost zero - the special interests will just use their money to buy votes and put forward bills that create loop-holes or otherwise twist the law in their favor. If we want our children to live in a country where there vote matters, we need to get the money out of our politics, otherwise they will increasingly become the 21st century version of the "landless peasant." Spread the word - End the LEGALIZED BRIBERY!!! CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM needs to be THE main goal of the protests!!!
And would be something I would at least consider following.
NotYour99 - I appreciate your response (I'm serious). I have seen many of your other posts and I think we both want what is best for the country. I hope with all my heart that this movement affects real change that truly represents what the 99% wants. In order to achieve this I believe we need to break the cycle of bribery that has effectively disenfranchised the average American.
I agree fully. The people here counter that congress isn't the head of the snake, wall street is. But congress is the neck and that's where the change needs to being.
Get a job Hippy http://occupywallst.org/forum/forum-topics/#comment-172997
Robert, I see once again some folks have taken a thread to discourse their own personal ideals and not addressed your statement.
Oddly enough there is a large percentage of the OWS who do work, some have taken vacation time to participate, some come before or after work, some only show up on weekends (whatever days their particular weekends may fall on) some have jobs that allow them to take a leave of absence.
Yes there are also others who have been laid off, and between filling out applications and sending out resumes and hopefully going to interviews spend time at the OWS, others are drawing unemployment, some have been injured on the job and can not currently work and some have never been employed.
But there are retirees there at OWS also, are you suggesting that they get a job?
I remember when early retirement was encouraged so there would be job openings for those up and coming younger people, those days are long past.
OWS doesn't encompass one age category, or economic group or even social status group.
I see you too wish to promote your agenda, your party's agenda, maybe you should consider the very thing you are complaining about provided you with yet another platform to do so.
While taking this class on "personal responsibility", will they also explain why society, big-polluters, and the government is exempt from such burdens? I'm all for being responsible, I've pretty much given up on the idea of starting a family because I can't stand the thought of bringing a child into this mess we've made. How are we going to repay the debt to the future generation, especially considering it's a debt that not repayable.
We've got a world in peril and what's our biggest objective currently? Well, to start the growth engine back up of course! We've got candidates that talk about crap like the "Light Bulb Freedom Act", granted the person who conjured this horse squeeze is a dimwit, but it's representative of the dialogue going on.
We've got an infrastructure that hinges on the existence of cheap oil. And guess what, cheap oil is gone... forever! Poof, we blew the planet's wad over the course of 300 years of unsustainable use and outright waste. Oil isn't gone obviously, it never will be... but we're on the top of Hubbert's peak, we're not going to enjoy the ride down. That is, unless we smarten up, and soon, otherwise the energy required to enact the type of wartime changes we need won't happen.
So yeah, maybe we should all get a little of that personal responsibility you're talking about. Otherwise, we'll be joining the list(along with most of the rest of the world) of civilizations like the Mayans, Easter Islanders, Sumerians and the Romans.
With all due respect I am so sad about the list of requirements. First of all I believe in an education and hard work, living simply and drug free. It has been my observation, when I was in Denver for a teachers conference, that many of the Occupy Denver participants were doing drugs and just looking for a party. It is hard to take this list seriously when the protesters come across as lazy and looking for a free ride. I believe the hardworking middle class are suffering the most. We make too much money to benefit from financial aid to help our college students but not enough to help put them through on our own. So college students and parents are being strapped with high interest loans. The middle class pay taxes that support entitlement programs that benefit many people who mooch the system. Also, I think that list needs to include the high paid salaries of pro-athletes and celebs, it is not just the politicians who are overpaid. NBA players want more money out of their owners, but the hardworkers who help run the stadiums and arenas barely get paid above min. wage. Please sober up and see what is really going on. Also, if we let all immigrants in this country it will burden our country even more. See how New Zealand runs their country, they are very selective about who gets to come in and live. They realize to sustain a country you have to run it in a way that will not burden it to the point of destruction. I liken it to putting on your own oxygen mask first so you are strong enough to help the person next to you.
With all due respect I am so sad about the list of requirements. First of all I believe in an education and hard work, living simply and drug free. It has been my observation, when I was in Denver for a teachers conference, that many of the Occupy Denver participants were doing drugs and just looking for a party. It is hard to take this list seriously when the protesters come across as lazy and looking for a free ride. I believe the hardworking middle class are suffering the most. We make too much money to benefit from financial aid to help our college students but not enough to help put them through on our own. So college students and parents are being strapped with high interest loans. The middle class pay taxes that support entitlement programs that benefit many people who mooch the system. Also, I think that list needs to include the high paid salaries of pro-athletes and celebs, it is not just the politicians who are overpaid. NBA players want more money out of their owners, but the hardworkers who help run the stadiums and arenas barely get paid above min. wage. Please sober up and see what is really going on. Also, if we let all immigrants in this country it will burden our country even more. See how New Zealand runs their country, they are very selective about who gets to come in and live. They realize to sustain a country you have to run it in a way that will not burden it to the point of destruction. I liken it to putting on your own oxygen mask first so you are strong enough to help the person next to you.
I am tired of all these so called conservative purists. Where were you with McCain? The goal is to relieve Obama of duty. Get with the program. Like Obama isn't the worst President of all time. If you still aren't sure about it, it's time to turn in your voting card.
Don't blame me. I voted for McCain. How's that Hope & Change working for America? Didn't think so. Ronn Paul 2012!
Between Ron Lawl, and Barack Obama, I would definitely choose Ron Lawl. But I'm not totally sold on Ron Lawl. I brought up how he would legalize all illegal drugs. Or at least he said he would on Morton Downey Show back in the days. And based upon that, I have to choose someone other than Ron Lawl to represent Republicans.
He would end the "War on Drugs". A failed policy that is futile. He would simply leave it up to states and communities to decide. Says Big Federal Govt can't enforce morality on certain things efficiently. And no, I don't support drug use!
A.B.O 2012 Anybody But Obama. would be better.
I like Gingridge. probably the smartest and most experienced with economical problems. but even Romney wouldn't be all that bad. of course, if it comes down to PeeWee Herman vs. Obama you know PeeWee could do better.