Forum Post: I can no longer support you, I'm sorry.
Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 14, 2011, 7:31 p.m. EST by needforchange123
(9)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
After hearing all the OWS stuff in the news I decided to check you out to see what this was about. Uneven found myself agreeing with a lot of stuff said. That being said, I no longer will support you. Nthe more I readthe more I see people wanting to move toward communism. That is a system that has never worked. It tends to be the same thing we have now, a small group that has the wealth and the rest struggling (see china and Cuba). No matter what way we move we will always have elite. I liked the movement of getting money out of politics. I liked the idea of not allowing coorpurations to be "people". I hate, repeat hate, communism. I personally like capitalism, when done right. Is it right at the moment nnot at all. But I would prefer tomstay this way than change to your other idea. Also, I have to stop supporting you b/c this is also turning into a "we hate the Jews" movement. have seen way to many comments beig cruel about the Jewish community. Some of the comments read made me think of neo-Nazi beliefs that I don't like. I do not like the way this movemnt is going and will no longer support you. If things g the way you want it to, god help us all!!
Listen, if everyone is invited to the party (and they should be), dont you think that someone will end up dancing with a lampshade on his head? There are also alot of people out there that will put stuff up on here just to cause trouble. That isnt what any of this is about but if this really is democratic, sometimes you have wackos coming from both directions. But just remember who has a motivation to shut this down and will put any sort of vile thing on here to try and make you think this is about that. You always have to look at what the other side is doing. And dont think there isnt another side in this, despite efforts to the contrary.
How about libertarian socialism?
We don't want communism or fascism. Anti-semites are not welcomed. We are simply talking about making serious reforms to make things more Fair.
We're an open source movement it can't be helped.
Also - we get raided and infiltrated every moon cycle lol. First we had Obamaites, then Cainites, then Paulites, etc. We even got some guy named Jeff Block trying to get voters.
Anyway I would like to say...just check in time to time.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/im-out/
Even looselyhuman checks in too.
U have misinterpretted this movement
What you read on the message boards and what you hear from the MSM is not a good representation of what the Occupy movements are about. The people that understand it are trying to keep the politics out. They don't want it to be a left or right thing.
All the crap you hear is either from trolls or people trying to push their political agenda. They know nothing of what this movement is about and will be totally disappointed when they finally figure it out... Then again they will have a better government and world once they do. Keep your mind open and don't buy into all the political rhetoric. It's not about that.
Don't mistake the forum for the movement. As with any open online community with almost no moderation, it's overrun with trolls and armchair debaters who fancy themselves political pundits. These are not the people sacrificing their comfort on the street, I assure you
The movement is out there, not in here.
What I've repeatedly heard on this forum: we're for everybody (but if your don't agree with everything we say, get out), everybody gets a say (but if your city doesn't have an OWS movement or you can't get here, then you don't get a vote), leaders will be elected (but again, not here = no vote for you), we are not for communism/Marxism/socialism (but please welcome our speaker for today, Slavoj Žižek), we will be the new leaders of this movement (but you don't need to know who we are), we are protesting against the Feds and banks and corruption, not the rich (but let's put tax the rich on our signs). Like others have expressed on here, I really started to agree, but these kinds of contradictions are turning me off as well. Tell me who you are (names), strongly and briefly state what you are for (and be honest), and then have the fortitude of character stand behind it, put you name to it, and call others to join you.
This forum is unmoderated. It's like 4chan. It's not about who gets a say and who doesn't. It's about the type of behavior that gets to have eyes. An unmoderated forum is begging people who have just a little pre-existing inclination to go ahead and act badly. The people doing it wouldn't do it to your face, no sir. But in a big anonymous free-for-all, sh*t is bound to happen.
I'd love it if there were an actual strong, organized place online where everyone could participate while still remaining constructive. This just isn't it. You're looking in the wrong place, which is, unfortunately, nevertheless known as the "official" place. The movement wants you to have a say equal to anyone else. But this place is not the movement, so your say is lost here.
As stated below a group of users here, myself included, made http://www.themultitude.org and we're attempting to migrate users over there. Maybe it'll work, we hope.
Maybe, but that's not changing the fact that there is no public ownership of leadership. The leaders hide their identity. You're telling me my perception of exclusiveness is incorrect? Then tell me where I can talk directly with one of the leaders/organizers and get heard with out being required to be "rich" enough to fly to New York. What say do people in rural areas get in this?
It's a leaderless movement. You're asking to speak to an authority figure when none really exists, by design so far.
If you want to take part, start an occupation in your area. Many cities other than NYC have done this. I believe the figure is over 1,000 now actually.
The movement is decentralized, so if you want to get anywhere with it and not drive yourself crazy you have to throw out any preconceived notions of hierarchy. Want to know where your say comes from? You give it to yourself. The public has to hear you, not any central body.
NYC might be where it started, only cause it had to start somewhere. Start shouting in your area. Get others to do the same. Poof, there's your say in the movement.
You are having a vote to establish leaders and demands, are you not? That's not establishing hierarchy?
Are we? Where? It's possible something's going on I don't know about, however there have been several individuals who've tried to get "official" lists of demands etc. going. Lots of votes going on at people's independent blogs and personal websites. Where are these votes you're referring to?
Read any posts from ms3000? Group of lawyers and student running everything, and the only way to be in on it it to be in New York.
Well said!
"Armchair debaters," that's fantastic. And by "fantastic" I mean a fantastic way to assure people who aren't at the park that they're not welcome.
Maybe you want to reconsider your message. I've been down at the park, and maybe I can't count real high, but I'm pretty sure 99% of NYC wasn't there, much less 99% of the nation. And the only things going on were the drum circle - which, of course, refused to stop so that the organizational meeting could be heard - and the organizational meeting that was - 30 days into the protest - still trying to figure out how to tell newcomers what's going on, not to mention that no one had gotten to what to tell those newcomers.
That's the "real" movement?
Is anyone taking this seriously? I don't want to sound like a downer, because I believe in the spirit of the movement, and I believe there is a chance to get something done. But not like this. This is kid's play. What's happening here is kid's play.
I'm referring to a behavior. Everyone is welcome, but what goes on in this forum is largely a disgrace and doesn't represent the movement. The real traction has not been gained here. This is just a tool, and if it can bring people into the movement then great, but it itself is not the movement.
I agree this forum is getting out of control; I'm wondering how it got here. Who's maintaining this joint, are they even connected with the movement? If this isn't the movement's organizational hub for the outside world, what is? This isn't scientific rocketry, here, is all I'm saying. You, the "real" movement, have left a gaping procedural black hole, and everyone trying to learn about the "real" movement is being directed right into it.
Look, I'm keeping the faith. But right now it's on ration. I'm not saying this because I think you need to give a shit about me, but I guarantee you I'm one of your more aware and optimistic spectators, I guarantee you I'm looking harder than most for a reason to stand with you, and I feel like I'm fighting your movement for the chance.
When the traction you've gained finally gets around to being used, post us a note. Somewhere.
This is an excellent point. Just who IS running this whole thing? Getting a little tired of "the leaders" and the "we". Why don't they want us to know who "they" are? Secrecy is generally used to deceive and I, for one, am feeling a little "had".
There's no leader.
Every movement has a leader. Everything always has a "buck stops here" guy or group (even tribes had chiefs).You should try to find out who yours is to make sure they are someone you can still get behind when they take over.
There's no leader. There are people taking donations to pay for supplies but the movement would exist without them. Again, ditch the preconceptions. Protests throughout history have had leaders, but that doesn't necessarily have to mean they all must.
I'm with you on the gaping hole issue. A strong well-moderated online arm to this movement would be a huge benefit. A group of us (users from this forum) actually started up another forum to try and fix this: http://www.themultitude.org . We're trying to migrate users over there.
I'm not sure who runs things here, but they don't seem willing to appoint enough people to keep an eye on things.
I think a new form of elitism is forming.. the 1% on the street.
AGREED! They are heppy to have us donate money via the internet, but not to have a voice.
PS. The forum now has some kind of limit on number of replies so I can't reply above to your ms3000 post.
You're talking about an individual posting in the forum, where anyone can say anything. I can post that Neil Armstrong and his gangland cronies are taking votes on who should head the movement. That doesn't mean squat.
I guess "they" don't want anymore of these long conversational strings.
I disagree with the people running this forum as much as you, rest assured. But this forum is not the movement. You seem to be hell-bent on being angry though so I'll leave you to it.
I am not angry. I just want to know WHO I am supporting when they are voting and releasing statements that are supposed to represent all. http://occupywallst.org/forum/first-official-release-from-occupy-wall-street/
Your voice is in your neighborhood. Please don't sink to animosity for the hell of it. I'm trying to help you understand what's going on, but if that's unappreciated and you'd like to go on acting on your preconceptions, I'll spend my time elsewhere.
What part about RURAL did you not grasp?
When you feel like calming down and speaking constructively let me know.
I just want to know what we're all gonna get out of this. Out with the old and in with the new, ok. But new what? How do you know everyone isn't just getting shafted or used?
I was waiting for this statement to come out. I think it would be good for the movement if the people on Wall Street had user names such as OnTheStreet1, OnTheStreet2, OnTheStreet3, etc. and then you do not allow anyone else on this site to use that user name template. Then, when a legitimate opinion is expressed by those who are actually "on the street"... the open online community would know that they are talking to a REAL protester-- and not a political pundit. I think most people would appreciate it.
Those armchair debaters are among the 99%! (Most of thr trolls too.)
Let's take stock of this screed:
1) You called OWS communist 2) You called OWS Nazi-sympathetic
We can conclude
3) You are a moron.
It follows that
4) You should leave us alone
This movement doesn't tolerate anti-Semitism. Should I assume you are a troll? Or just deceived by the trolls?
I guess you could call mr a troll as I am not out there on yhe streets with you guys. Yet between my job am my family (mother of 6month twins here) I can't get out there. Well that and te nearest occupy group os over an hour away. So in some ways I'm trolling. I'm looking for information, trying to become more informed about this whole movement and decide HOW I can help and IF I should. Those calling me names and saying that I'm a troll anti ge out are basically pushing mr away now. I'm already doubting thi movement b/c of some of te stuff I'm reading. By adding these negative comments directed at me for questioning, some (not all) are saying that I'm not imprtant b/c my views may be a bit different or I don't have 100% faith in the movemet YET!
Good, so if you are sincerely interested in this movement, you should participate in the conversation taking place here: http://occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-list-of-demands-please-help-editadd-so-th/
You'll find serious discussion about the issues that interest OWS, not troll-posted lies about communism and anti-Semitism. You may find yourself agreeing with OWS's goals, or you may find yourself disagreeing with them. But at least it's OWS you'll be critically engaged with, and not some lies spread by trolls.
Enjoy!
Unfortunately this forum has no moderator to keep non-sense off this forum so there are many people saying terrible things on here - they are known as trolls. (Internet speak for people who like to cause a commotion.) Please don't judge all by the few who are saying so many bad things.
Support the ideas that you agree with and wait for the movement (not this forum) to draft demands!
Sorry but I have to answer to this - although ( or perhaps because ) I'm not an American. As a European I can't understand this antipathy against social nets.
I live in Europe under circumstances you would perhaps call communism - and I'm REALLY happy about this.
There isn't only black and white in this world. There are a lot of gray - many different grays in this world - about 98 % of your world is gray.
Here a typicall example ( EUR converted into USD): I earn about 70 000 USD. The social security costs (20% pension fund, 15 % health insurance, 10 % unemployment insurance) are payed half/half by me and my entrepreneur (no discussion - it is the law) - so I have to pay 22,5 % for social insurances + 20 % taxes. I get about 39 000 USD to my bank account.
Sounds as communism ? -> It isn't - it is SOCIAL - what don't mean socialism.
My wife earns the same and pays the same taxes and insurance amount. (together we are paying 42 000 USD tax and insurances). Once my wife and me will have a child this insurance will be the same, but the taxes will reduce. So we will get 44 000 USD to account + 4 000 USD child benefit (from the federation) = 48 000 USD + 60% parents money for the one year or 30 % for 2 years.
This is social - not socialism. When I get ill, I don't loss what I have worked for, the hospital and doctor bills will be payed by the insurance, unemployment means to get a reduced income - not to loss everything.
This income, wouldn't mean luxury living (no holidays, no new smartphone, no new gaggets,...) but it means to don't suffer from sorrows about how to survive tomorrow, where to live tomorrow, to loss the house when getting ill.
It means to care for the poorer people. I do pay for the health cost of someone earning less, too. For 17 000 USD income he or she would have to pay 22,5 % (only 3 800 USD) , but now taxes. If someone has less than 480 USD (per adult) and 390 USD (per child) for living ( + rent ) he gets an additional welfare, so he will be able to survive in dignity. For luxury he/she has to work more and harder, but not for surviving.
BUT we all know that we don't have communism and this system of social security nets can only be financed by a highly competitive, challenging and powerful economy. No one (or better nearly no one) want's to live from unemployment pay or social welfare - so we work hard and have a free economy.
My study at the university was for free - as the state knows that we need high qualified employees for the international competition and additional loans (you should also have money for rent, food, books,..) for the study are awarded by the state - if you pass the graduation you do only have to pay back 50 % - with 0 % interests.
That is what I pay my taxes for. If the system would be different I would perhaps pay 200 USD less in taxes, but 200 USD more in student loans - and would have a prob when lossing my job or getting ill.
I think someting like that is the wish of many of the 99% - not communism.
There are some nuts here, but that's open forum for you. The good thing is that you can confront that in a forum like this without fear! What's there to run away from?
We need to look at America before we attack other forms of goverment. I am not promoting other forms but this one is dead. Think about it we are number one in the following - child molesters -prison population - drug use - now what country would want to be like us? We can't even protect our children anymore with this fake legal system just ask Casey Anthony.
NO WAR
first they ignore you
You don't have to agree with OWS. But, if you're going to disagree with OWS, you do have to understand what OWS is about. If you think that it's about communism and anti-Semitism, then you are mistaken; if that's what you disagree with, then you don't disagree with OWS.
Myself and some of my friends may also quit. Reason: Obama just sent troops to another country, scrapped the long term health care plan? Why we are not complaining or protesting? Now I believe more it is run by current admin. to divert attention and cover up their failures.
Don't give up needfor change, here's a plan I've been hearing about for 3 years:
Here's how we can easily Reform Wall Street: Take away their powers "once again." And a Million People March on The Hill will help a lot!
For example, "We are here Congress because we want to bring REINSTATE the Glass-Steagall Act of 1933 http://www.investopedia.com/articles/03/071603.asp#axzz1aPEc3wX which help saved our country from the Great Depression by preventing investment companies, banks, and insurance companies from merging and becoming large brokerage firms; instead of just being Banks and Insurance companies--why can't we learn a history lesson here Congress? Btw, why did most of you vote for its repeal in 1999? http://www.counterpunch.org/2008/09/19/shattering-the-glass-steagall-act
Think about where we are now, it all started in 1999 with the subprime loans Senator Phil Gramm was peaching on Senate floor. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKQOxr2wBZQ&feature=related
Furthermore, we also want you to CHANGE the Commodities Future Modernization Act of 2000 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodity_Futures_Modernization_Act_of_2000 BACK to where it was before 2000, which since has deregulated energy markets and consequently allowed for such scams as The Enron Loophole; whereas in the early 2000's Enron Corp. was charging 400 bucks plus for a kilowatt hour...They all when to jail for this. But, the Enron loophole is still not closed, for example, allowing speculators to resell barrels of oil over and over again before it reaches the gas station owner. It's basically, legal gambling at our expense. What were those lawmakers thinking then? What are you thinking now? Either do the right think, or you're part of the 1%."
Why are oil prices high? The Enron Loophole
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbdtTGYQBMU&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNp0y0SjOkY&feature=related
Rolling Stones Reporter: Truth about Goldman Sachs--how they have cornered the markets--basically, The Enron Loophole and the Repeal of Glass-Steagall Act in 1999. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waL5UxScgUw
Let's get focused and bring back Glass-Steagall Act of 1933, they got it right 1933, we don't need to REINVENT the wheel because bringing this Act back will create an even playing field once again....and let's finally Close the Enron Loophole, which allowed Enron to charge w
Don’t be sorry be gone, adios MF.
It's sad but inevitable that some will opt out for misunderstanding what the movement is trying to accomplish: return government into the hands of its rightful owners—the people—and out of the grip of self-seeking political parties. It will take time and patience. No single fix will achieve the goal, but with persistence and imagination, this forum could produce positive results.
Lets get money out of politics and put the 99% back in control where it belongs:
http://www.getmoneyout.com/
man,you have to study systems in order to understand it. Cuba and China never were a real comunism states, just like Russua some time ago..so plz open your mind, read and understand it. Do not be affraid of the real system good for everybody. I can tell you I have been living in it and it was fantastic before the big corporations and people came who wantetd to teach us the democracy ... than our life ended and our state gone
you dont have to believe in one or the other ideology. Communism / Capitalism. We dont live in capitalism nor socialism nor communism. We live in an American economy, which is a hybrid.
you should try to get a better understanding of this movement. It seems like you read a few articles and saw(not meet) a couple of protestors.
16th october 2011 Bank Bosses Day Surprize! We are here to declare the 16th of october as a starting day of " FILL THE SOCKS" - coordinate action taken by a people in order to give the lesson to the banking sector. we shall never be used by the ruling system as a shield to protect their wealth again! therefore since the october 16th 2011 people who are fighting for our freedom begin to withdraw the money from theirs banking deposits and convert them from virtual to the
fresh printed dollar bills. the action starts immediately and last until the simple people will gain back their rights. all people who are unhappy with the status quo of corporatocracy are well welcome! this is the first announcement . help us spread the news - media somehow try not to see the occupy wall street properly - this action will open their eyes -
just the risk of banking runs creates attention, and the need to coordinate policy with us -
working class - 99% of the society. soon you will hear about the project everywhere. and you can create and add to it by yourself feel free to share this post with your friends, feel free to modify it and post it everywhere. this is people for people project.
Movement is dead. All enthusiasm no solutions.
I love capitalism too. But the people LEADING Corporate America (not the ordinary workers, who are trying to make a living just like you and me) are not capitalists - this is pure greed - lining their own pockets while they inflict irreparable damage on the companys they are running. But when anyone tries to speak out against their greed, they are screamed down as being anti-business and anti-capitalism. How is it anti-business to say that companies should be investing in their own futures? Why is it anti-business to say that companies should treat their staff with dignity and respect? How is it GOOD for business when the CEO takes a 30% pay RISE while cutting thousands of jobs at the same time? Please stop allowing these people to hijack capitalism to protect their own greed.
This is the internet. Most people here aren't even in the OWS movement. This is just a forum for everyone to vent, whine, and argue. You will find all kinds of trolls. All that doesn't necessarily mean the OWS movement stands for all that.
Who backed the Marxists to perpetrate the Bolshevik revolution and the killing of up to 75 million Russians? Who are the promoters of communism, really? If you hate communism, then I presume you've studied who were behind the Bolshevik revolution. I'll give you a clue. It wasn't the Hawaiians.
I think the two biggest issues this movement have brought up relate to getting money out of politics and reforming the financial system. Fringe groups always want to latch on to what's hot but they will never win. The power of OWS' message lies in its focus on ending the bought government and too big to fail. Have some faith in the greater movement.
tell me why
on my blog
http://blog.richardkentgates.com/
or just the form
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/viewform?hl=en_US&formkey=dFlNNHJTRlZwMWs5ZjlhTWN0NlZReHc6MQ#gid=0
I think there are many people here who share your view about ending corruption in government and capitalism (with a healthy dose of responsibility and ethics!).
People are entitled their opinions. But lets be real. I highly doubt that 99% would seriously support communism. However much chatter there may be on the board about it.
I abhor the derogatory comments about any race or ethnicity. They are not worthy of reading. And I seriously doubt there is any majority supporting such awful views.
namaste x x x
This is the problem...The people have been sitting back watching our great country slowly fall apart for decades. Years of corruption and greed caused this problem. If you don't want to take part that's your right, but when your life goes to shit don't start crying, just continue to sit back and watch your life go to waste.
The same tactics are being used to hi-jack this movement as was used against the tea party. Just coming from a different direction. There seems to be wide sentiment to get money out of politics.
Here is a new facebook page focused solely on that issue. No parties, no other agenda or conversations. It would take a lot to get it done, our elected servants don't want anything like that.
http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Get-Money-Out-of-Politics/170454236375392
“People should not be afraid of their governments, governments should be afraid of their people.” –V
As the time for marching on the capital comes and the Army lines the streets guns drawn ready to shoot protesters:
“If people do show up what do you think will happen?” (Dominic) “What usually happens when people without goals stand up to people with goals.” - Chief Finch
After being shot multiple times:
"Why won't you die?" (Creedy) "Behind this mask there is more than flesh, there are ideas, and ideas, Mr. Creedy, are bulletproof." -V
This is our chance to amend the constitution to reign in our government. They have oppressed us and abused their power and it is time we set rules for them to abide by.
They serve US. And that is what this movement is about. They should be afraid of US, not the other way around.
this is about CORPORATIONS and making them responsible to their communities... this is about changing legislation that will make it more equal, fair and just for EVERY EMPLOYEE not just the senior layers. We are a democracy and will be ... this is change at its best ... this is democracy making history... we have to change or we will be no more
Judging by all your other posts, you never supported OWS and have done nothing but rehash all of Glenn Beck's Bircher conspiracy theories.
Honest question, have you physically been down to an Occupy movement?
Honestly no I have not. The nearest one to me is over an hour away and as a mother of 6month old twins it's a bit hard to do. I have wanted to but doing so is hard. Please don't get angry a me for not going. There are many people that have wanted to go, bit or various reasons can't. I'm one of those.
I'm not angry at you, that would be silly, I hardly even know you. I personally just think that being at an occupation gives you a more full idea of what the movement is all about. There is a lot of confusion surrounding them, and even more media spin on top of that. If you want to get an idea what it's like try to watch the livestream when it's up. See if you can catch a general assembly or a speech of live stream. Take the 20 minutes out of your day sometime and see if it is all the things you fear it is.
http://www.smashwords.com/books/view/94223
"Banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies." - Thomas Jefferson
I'm done too. Sorry, this shit ain't real. It's not spontaneous. It's a bullshit manipulation game as bad as any other. It was very well orchestrated from the start and continues to be. You're getting played.
Background on Kalle Lasn:
http://activistcash.com/organization_overview.cfm/o/36-adbusters
More information regarding the origin of this "spontaneous movement," including that the primary OWS web site was originally registered to Lasn (since hidden using an anonymous registration service) in early June 2011, prior to the July time frame he states in various interviews as when this all began:
http://ironicsurrealism.com/2011/10/08/canadian-adbusters-sounded-1st-occupywallstreet-call-2-arms-who-are-they/
Interview with Lasn claiming responsibility:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/blogpost/post/occupy-wall-street-an-interview-with-kalle-lasn-the-man-behind-it-all/2011/10/12/gIQAC81xfL_blog.html
Email archive of Occupy Wall Street's months of planning for this "spontaneous" movement:
http://biggovernment.com/thomasryan/2011/10/14/the-email-archive-of-the-occupywallstreet-movement-anarchists-socialists-jihadists-unions-democrats/
Lots more if you want to look for it.
Read the list of demands and you will see this is not a communist movement. They are a diverse group and you will see things you don't like. I had the same fears last week.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-list-of-demands-please-help-editadd-so-th/
Thank you for the link and reassurances
That's just one random persons list of demands. When an official list of demands is released we will all know about it.
I am starting to agree with you. I like the whole idea and agree with some of what is said but there is a bizarro world feel to the whole thing.
Also, I don't like the fact that we, the people, are being lied to. There was a definite left agenda going into this thing with left wing backing but it was touted as an all-encompassing group. It isn't.
You can't trust anybody that lies to you from the get-go.
who is lying to you, exactly?
We can see all around the world that global capitalism has failed. Communism has never been given a chance on a global scale. It was a system that was never meant to work in a world of divided nation states. This is partly why it turned bad. It needs to be given a chance across the world. A planned economy, run by workers, for workers. You need to study the history of the movement.
It turned out bad because the government becomes the landholder instead of the worker....and that is what would happen in any case....Marxism is utopian but probably will never happen. Nevertheless, I think right now, we should focus on slowing down unfettered capitalism rather than figuring out what radical change to do. Baby steps.
I can see you have never read Marx or understood it. Capitalism cannot be reformed, it is dead and it's grave is being metaphorically dug as I type this. It will be buried after the coming revolution. Baby steps won't do my friend. Humanity needs giant leaps to get out of this global capitalist crisis.
See, thats just the trouble with communists. Always my way or the highway....extremism....etc.
And that is why you fail.
hey, needforchange123, you should try proofreading your ignorant statements before you post them. also you may want to do a little more research on things before you comment on something you obviously dont fully understand.....
I sympathize with you on the anti-Semitism but that is not representative of the movement. In a free movement you will always have your nuts. But I am at Zuccotti every day and the people there are our neighbors, children, students, teachers, workers and military men and women. It is a cross-section of America, so of course you will have your nut jobs.
I talk about some of the stuff you mentioned here: http://theassailedteacher.com/2011/10/09/why-the-end-the-fed-cause-is-bad-for-occupy-wall-street/
Do not be so quick to shut yourself off.
Even the Tea Party has Neo-Nazis I agree with you there.
Neo Nazis here Neo Nazis there everywhere a Neo Nazi!
I usually just play along. I mean yeah they're Neo Nazis and all but all I do is just use my freedom of speech against their freedom of speech. -heh- It worked when dealing with the Regressive tax Libertarians it just might work against Neo Nazis. Except trolls though. Their goal is to shit up every corner of the internet.
I think your trolling because i spend 12 hours plus a day on these boards and i have only seen a few people push communism/socialism/marxism. And those are almost always trolls too.
I would say a good 90-95% of this movement support nothing other than fixing the current system we have. Which is capitalism with representative( constitutional) republic. Most of us are very strong supporters of the constitution. We love our country just not the people that run it.
I agree......the trolls are coming from the people who are afraid of this movement. I wish they could be honest instead of just putting stuff out there to try and inflame things and chase people away.
I've seen a lot of overt communist proposals in the last week since I've been reading, and a few shocking anti-Zionist and outright anti-Semitic sentiments.
Some of the anti-semitism is trolls purposely trying to smear OWS. But some of it comes from Zeitgeist/Lyndon Larouche/fringe 911 truther types.
As the guy above said "if everyone is invited to the party (and they should be), dont you think that someone will end up dancing with a lampshade on his head?"
But in no way do I think there's an "official" anti-semitic bias inherent in OWS. Lefty/socialist, yes, perhaps. It did come from groups & people who lean that way. But they say everyone will be listened to if they show up at a general assembly meeting...for now, I still believe that.
Thank you. So many people quote Zeitgeist and look like complete morons. The only people impressed with that movie are people who have never bothered to read a history book.
You might like this.thebeastchashingitstail
http://theassailedteacher.com/2011/10/09/why-the-end-the-fed-cause-is-bad-for-occupy-wall-street/?preview=true&preview_id=51&preview_nonce=eca66f8092
If trolling means I get on to read when I can, then yes I'm trolling. I do not have 12+ hours to spend here. I am a teacher (no time at school to get on) and I cme home infant twins. Time is not something I have much on nwhen everytime I get on I see these comments it makes on question. Not everyone has that kind of time. At least I am trying to learn. You make it hard to wan to continue nalonf with that first commentor.
Agreed. People don't understand what it take to run a corporation. People actually think that all the money made from a corporation is sitting under some rich guys pillow. People also believe that a corporation is responsible for the mistakes of individuals, and the entire system is to blame. These people are called "fuck heads"
the anti-semites are infiltrators.
There is a hatred of Jews among certain elements on the left. I have seen it up close and personal for many yrs. It exists on the right as well. I'm not trying to make excuses for anyone, but it seems to be an equal opportunity employer, sorry to say. Ignore the Jew haters friend, the great majority of folks in this don't feel that way.
Many more people will come to your side when you are proactive (for “new” Business & Government solutions), instead of reactive (against “old” Business & Government solutions), which is why what we most immediately need is a comprehensive “new” strategy that implements all our various socioeconomic demands at the same time, regardless of party, and although I'm all in favor of taking down today's ineffective and inefficient Top 10% Management System of Business & Government, there's only one way to do it – by fighting bankers as bankers ourselves; that is, using a Focused Direct Democracy organized according to our current Occupations & Generations. Consequently, I have posted a 1-page Summary of the Strategically Weighted Policies, Organizational Operating Structures, and Tactical Investment Procedures necessary to do this at:
http://getsatisfaction.com/americanselect/topics/on_strategic_legal_policy_organizational_operational_structures_tactical_investment_procedures
Join
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/StrategicInternationalSystems/
because we need 100,000 “support clicks” at AmericansElect.org to support a Presidential Candidate -- such as any given political opportunist you'd like to draft -- in support of the above bank-focused platform.
Most importantly, remember, as cited in the first link above, that as Bank Owner-Voters in your 1 of 48 "new" Business Investment Groups (or "new" Congressional Committees) you become the "new" Congress replacing the "old" Congress according to your current Occupation & Generation, called a Focused Direct Democracy.
Therefore, any Candidate (or Leader) therein, regardless of party, is a straw man, a puppet; it's the STRATEGY – the sequence of steps – that the people organize themselves under, in Military Internet Formation of their Individual Purchasing & Group Investment Power, that's important. In this, sequence is key.
Why? Because there are Natural Social Laws – in mathematical sequence – that are just like Natural Physical Laws, such as the Law of Gravity. You must follow those Natural Social Laws or the result will be Injustice, War, etc.
The FIRST step in Natural Social Law is to CONTROL the Banks as Bank Owner-Voters. If you do not, you will inevitably be UNJUSTLY EXPLOITED by the Top 10% Management Group of Business & Government who have a Legitimate Profit Motive, just like you, to do so.
Consequently, you have no choice but to become Candidates (or Leaders) yourselves as Bank Owner-Voters according to your current Occupation & Generation.
So please JOIN the 2nd link, so we can make our support clicks at AmericansElect.org when called for by e-mail from the group in the 2nd link, and then you will see and feel how your goals can be accomplished within the strategy of the 1st link as a “new” Candidate (or Leader) of your Occupation & Generation.