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Forum Post: I am sick of this talk about compulsory education!

Posted 2 years ago on Feb. 28, 2012, 1:02 a.m. EST by craigdangit (326)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Compulsory education laws are necessary. If students don't want to learn, we can obviously force them to by making them sit in a building for eight hours a day. They'll pick stuff up. Besides, what is it hurting? It's not like all of the kids who don't want to learn are going to bully and ostracize the other kids who do want to learn or be disruptive, or, most ridiculous of all, lower the per-student funding by taking resources away from the district. It's all a ridiculous fantasy driven by people who obviously don't understand the value of being tormented as a child by other kids. When they snap and kill other students, we will have other people to blame for it.

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79 Comments


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[-] 2 points by sato (148) 2 years ago

We should learn from Scandinavian education. Free high quality education even at university level. Not like the education business we have but real education accessible to everyone. They also learn various languages while our children barely learn English.

tl;dr quality education should be accessible to all.

[-] 1 points by craigdangit (326) 2 years ago

It really wasn't that long.

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (9727) 2 years ago

We need to fund sevices for kids that don't want to learn and get them out of the classrooms of the kids that do. That way, both groups will benefit. Clearly, you are expressing the opposite view because you want public education to fail. Man, you guys can be transparent.

[-] 0 points by freewriterguy (882) 2 years ago

I agree I want the public edumacation to fail cause I believe it already has, me and my wife are proof, we have gone thru it, i got in between associates and bachelors level, she got bachelors degree. She couldnt find a job paying more than 10 an hour and i couldnt find one more than 11. But when I started my own business in a trade I learned along the way, regretting the many wasted years of my edumacation, I now make approx. a hundred an hour.

[-] 3 points by GypsyKing (9727) 2 years ago

Strange, that's what the 1% want - public education to fail.

[-] 1 points by jart (1262) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Yea because using public education as a means of training people to be subservient drones wasn't good enough.

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9727) 2 years ago

Their attack on public schools is just part and parcle of their attack on all the institutions of democracy. They don't want a democracy.

[-] 1 points by ThunderclapNewman (1083) from Nanty Glo, PA 2 years ago

You still retain the knowledge you gained. It didn't fall out of the back of your head. You didn't waste your time. Education is the best investment one can make in one's self.

I'd like to know when the idea of attending a college or university came to be viewed by those who attend as merely a means to obtaining a job.

Occupy is rife with erudite folks, many of whom are unemployed and under-employed. Certainly they're not happy about their employment issues, but I doubt that many would agree that a higher education is a waste of time.

If making fairly large sums of money is what makes you happy, then I say "Congratulations! You're doing well for yourself."

[-] 1 points by gestopomillyy (1695) 2 years ago

the idea of attending college for a job got started when jobs started requiring degrees to get hired.. it wasnt the people . hardly anyone would waste thier time on college if the corporations did not demand that peice of paper before even considering anyone for a job. do not blame the people. the schools you love so much.. drill this into your head from day one., that you will be a nothing failure if you do not go to college. but they dont tell you that you can be a major success if you dont.

[-] 1 points by ThunderclapNewman (1083) from Nanty Glo, PA 2 years ago

I take your point, friend. All I might say is that I enjoy learning and learning from well qualified instuctors makes the educational process all the more satisfying for me. I may never convert a good deal of what I learn into my making a living but learning the "how" and the "why" is a wonderful challenge. I'm serious when I write this to you: I hope you find your bliss, if you haven't already done so.

[-] 1 points by freewriterguy (882) 2 years ago

thats cause those who think like that are still brainwashed. Learning a trade, or building an online store is the future that will take back america, (look at facebook a 20 something year old billionaire who didnt finish a degree, or ebay, or google for instance, and lets not forget napster who revolutionized how we obtain music. It wasn't useless mind bobble edumacation like science, math, english, social studies and all the other worthless stuff we all learned and cant even remember one single ioda after studying for 13 straight years that made a difference. Let us not be plugged into the obsolete coroporate cubicle scheme of dead in the head, and uninteresting jobs anylonger.

[-] 1 points by ThunderclapNewman (1083) from Nanty Glo, PA 2 years ago

Sorry you feel that way about it. That's sad.

[-] 1 points by freewriterguy (882) 2 years ago

whats even sadder is when my wifes college allumni sends her a request for donations, I tell her to send a request for a refund for wasting her time and money in issuing a degree that is worthless. This is a major epidemic thruout the land, especially in online colleges, which my wife did not attend. She actually attended a reputable one, but the very idea of professors and organizations getting rich off of poor people called "students" is obsurd. Remember in 2008-2009 when many of us were looking for work, and 400 major college // university presidents gained over a million dollar bonuses because" they were doing so good" ya right.

And let me just add by way of edit: Nothing says failure than when a person obtains a degree and then instead of making something of themselves and adding to our collective society of the creation, or movement of goods and services in society, they end right back in the pyramid scheme of getting their pay from poor students by way of becoming our teachers.

heres an alternative solution: lets find a way to get successful people to be our teachers, not the failures at self reliancy.

[-] 1 points by ThunderclapNewman (1083) from Nanty Glo, PA 2 years ago

I have in my extended family, 8 teachers and former teachers as relatives. They range in age from mid-twenties through early sixties. Everyone of them is a dedicated professional. Everyone of them deals with the realities of the effects of modern society and parental attitudes concerning their children and school. For every example of a bad teacher that might come to mind, there are hundreds and hundreds who are good, dedicated teachers trying their best to teach in the best possible ways; teachers who put in many more hours and tons more effort than could reasonably be expected. They love what they do, and it shows.

When you say successful people, what would your definition be?

[-] 1 points by freewriterguy (882) 2 years ago

funny that i have several teachers in my extended family also, who mocked me thru the years when i complained about how things just didnt seem right, to this day they remember there is an emotional block between my family and theres, and even though the collapse occured which confirmed my suspicions, to this day they dont remember my warnings or complaints, only that there is a block between us. one of them in particular even lost $400k in their investment by not listening to us when we told them to withdraw their money from the banks and the system, but cant even remember that we told them. I can show receipts of my withdraw of funds in oct 2007 one month before the collapse.

[-] 2 points by ThunderclapNewman (1083) from Nanty Glo, PA 2 years ago

You have some wisdom and insight that others in your family seem to lack, based on the story you tell. Would you mind being a little more specific about your complaints and how they mocked you? If you don't want to share that, I could understand your wanting to keep that private.

My sister and both her son and daughter-in-law work for a public education co-op (the administrative merging of several school districts) in rural Arkansas. Poverty is in abundance there. Twice a school year they take a weekend and make the 3+ hour drive up to Little Rock to buy school supplies for the children. They buy tablets, notebooks, etc., etc. and use their own money to pay for those things.

They go to the homes of children who need help, in order that they may tutor. On their own time, and again in the evenings and on weekends. Getting home at 7 or 7:30 is their norm.

They knew when they decided to work in that part of Arkansas just what they'd be "up against" - single-parent homes, no discipline at home, and the like; all that might come with being poor is realized there. They dedicated themselves to making a difference.

You may have read or perhaps seen on the news a story concerning the school district in Philadelphia and it's receiving no funding at all. Teachers there teach free of charge! They do so because they know that for their students to have a chance, the kids need schooling. Now if that doesn't move one emotionally, I doubt anything ever would.

[-] 0 points by skylar (-441) 2 years ago

what is her degree in?

[-] 1 points by freewriterguy (882) 2 years ago

Health education bachelors in science, what a joke huh

[-] 0 points by skylar (-441) 2 years ago

what did she expect to get a job doing with that degree?

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[-] 0 points by craigdangit (326) 2 years ago

Whoa. How do we disagree? I never said anything about wanting education to fail. I only said we need to let the kids who don't want to learn get away from the kids who do. How on earth would this make education fail? And you didn't refute anything I said.

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (9727) 2 years ago

I'm sorry if I misinterptreted your post! I agree completely that we need to fund special education well enough, and change the policy of disruptive kinds being kept in the classrooms with kids that are willing to learn. This is the worst problem in schools today. Teachers can't teach and therefore children can't learn.

[-] 1 points by craigdangit (326) 2 years ago

Exactly. Thomas Jefferson was against compulsory education.

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9727) 2 years ago

I think all children should have access to education, but different students need differrent settings.

[-] 0 points by flip (4984) 2 years ago

do you know the history of compulsory schooling - fought tooth and nail in some places - britian does not have it - at least they didn't when i was there last

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9727) 2 years ago

No, perhaps you could enlighten me.

[-] 1 points by flip (4984) 2 years ago

you can find out more but these two posts should get you started - "dumbing us down" is a good read. ......How Hindu Schooling Came To America (I)

By the end of the first quarter of the nineteenth century, a form of school technology was up and running in America’s larger cities, one in which children of lower-class customers were psychologically conditioned to obedience under pretext that they were learning reading and counting (which may also have happened). These were the Lancaster schools, sponsored by Governor DeWitt Clinton of New York and prominent Quakers like Thomas Eddy, builder of the Erie Canal. They soon spread to every corner of the nation where the problem of an incipient proletariat existed. Lancaster schools are cousins of today’s school factories. What few knew then or realize now is that they were also a Hindu invention, designed with the express purpose of retarding intellectual development.

How Hindu schooling came to America, England, Germany, and France at just about the same time is a story which has never been told. A full treatment is beyond the scope of this book, but I’ll tell you enough to set you wondering how an Asiatic device specifically intended to preserve a caste system came to reproduce itself in the early republic, protected by influentials of the magnitude of Clinton and Eddy. Even a brief dusting off of schooling’s Hindu provenance should warn you that what you know about American schooling isn’t much. First, a quick gloss on the historical position of India at the time of the American Revolution—for Lancaster schools were in New York two decades after its end.

[-] 1 points by flip (4984) 2 years ago

john taylor gatto is interesting on the subject - here is a start - "The structure of American schooling, 20th century style, began in 1806 when Napoleon's amateur soldiers beat the professional soldiers of Prussia at the battle of Jena. When your business is selling soldiers, losing a battle like that is serious. Almost immediately afterwards a German philosopher named Fichte delivered his famous "Address to the German Nation" which became one of the most influential documents in modern history. In effect he told the Prussian people that the party was over, that the nation would have to shape up through a new Utopian institution of forced schooling in which everyone would learn to take orders.

So the world got compulsion schooling at the end of a state bayonet for the first time in human history; modern forced schooling started in Prussia in 1819 with a clear vision of what centralized schools could deliver:

1.Obedient soldiers to the army; 2.Obedient workers to the mines; 3.Well subordinated civil servants to government; 4.Well subordinated clerks to industry 5.Citizens who thought alike about major issues. "

"Our form of compulsory schooling is an invention of the state of Massachusetts around 1850. It was resisted - sometimes with guns - by an estimated eighty per cent of the Massachusetts population, the last outpost in Barnstable on Cape Cod not surrendering its children until the 1880's when the area was seized by militia and children marched to school under guard." "....The next step came in 1890, when Andrew Carnegie wrote eleven essays, called The Gospel of Wealth. In it he said that capitalism (free enterprise) was stone cold dead in the United States. It had been killed by its own success. That men like himself, Mr. Morgan, and Mr. Rockefeller now owned everything. They owned the government. Competition was impossible unless they allowed it. Which, human nature being what it is, was a problematical thing.

Carnegie said that this was a very dangerous situation, because eventually young people will become aware of this and form clandestine organizations to work against it. Ultimately they'll bring down this edifice. You've got to read all eleven essays, sometimes several times, and only then the majesty of the design emerges. Carnegie proposed that men of wealth re-establish a synthetic free enterprise system (since the real one was no longer possible) based on cradle-to-grave schooling. The people who advanced most successfully in the schooling that was available to everyone would be given licenses to lead profitable lives, they would be given jobs and promotions and that a large part of the economy had to be tied directly to schooling."

  1. From: Modern Education and the Mass Marketing of Children

"Look...at the seven lessons of school teaching -- confusion, class position, indifference, emotional and intellectual dependency, conditional self-esteem, surveillance -- all of these lessons are prime training for permanent underclasses, people deprived forever of finding the center of their own special genius. And over this time the training has shaken loose from its own original logic: to regulate the poor. For since the 1920s, the growth of the school bureaucracy and the less visible growth of a horde of industries that profit from schooling exactly as it is, have enlarged this institution's original grasp to the point that it now seizes the sons and daughters of the middle class as well. "

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9727) 2 years ago

There is a real element of truth to what you say about the potential of mass education to crush innate genius. A serious problem with mass education is that it tends to "teach toward the norm" which means that the needs of the exceptionally bright go unmet.

But education must be seen in it's societal context as well. It would be hard to imaging parents today up in arms to make sure their children don't go to school. The case is exactly the opposite - they are up in arms because schools aren't good enough, and schools aren't good for the simple reason that the would-be lords of the mannor don't want them to be good. These would-be feudal lords want quality education to be a privilige of the elite. That, more than anything, would enable them to hold a permanent advantage over a surf class.

So it is up to us to demand first rate public education for our children, and to not let up until we get it, because without first rate educations there will be no future for the vast majority in America.

[-] 1 points by flip (4984) 2 years ago

i am certainly not against education - compulsory education can be problematic and education to create obedient factory workers is not really what we want. "dumbing us down" is really good - and short!

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9727) 2 years ago

That's the sysytem as it is - I agree.

[-] 0 points by JuanFenito (847) 2 years ago

How much is enough funding? What made the system work better in the 1950s when they were starved of funding but had much higher test scores?

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (9727) 2 years ago

In the 50's you didn't have classrooms filled with traumatized students from decades of one-sided class warfare.

[-] 0 points by JuanFenito (847) 2 years ago

There weren't rich people in 1950? Or do you mean warfare between races, in which case you would be right. As a matter of fact, a recent poll among poorly performing school students in New Hampshire revealed the hidden truth that among the top distractions preventing them from being motivated in school was "Class warfare". And how much is enough funding?

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (9727) 2 years ago

Rich people were held in check by democracy, that's why they don't like it.

[-] 0 points by JuanFenito (847) 2 years ago

Is that really true though? I think corporate brainwashing was a lot more common then, because corporations controlled the few sources of media available, namely newspapers, radio and television. What happened then that is not happening now?

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9727) 2 years ago

Yeah, that's how we got here, but look at the rate of corporate taxation then Vs. now, and you will get the picture.

[-] 0 points by JuanFenito (847) 2 years ago

Okay, I looked it up... but I must be missing something. The corporate tax rate, best I can tell, was 50% then, and it's 40% now, a little higher than average...? I don't see your point.

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (9727) 2 years ago

Bullshit.

[-] 0 points by JuanFenito (847) 2 years ago

What is?

Come on, I'm being serious here, and to the best of my knowledge those figures are correct. What did I get wrong? I seriously don't know what the corporate tax rate was then, but the chart I saw showed 50% It looked like.

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[-] 1 points by shield (222) 2 years ago

If you're going to post anti-compulsory education material, please don't do it sarcastically. There are people on this forum who won't get it.

[-] 1 points by craigdangit (326) 2 years ago

That wasn't sarcasm!

[-] 1 points by shield (222) 2 years ago

To quote a meme: "Nothing to do here!"

[-] 1 points by DanielBarton (1345) 2 years ago

o this post again

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[-] 0 points by ThunderclapNewman (1083) from Nanty Glo, PA 2 years ago
[-] 0 points by craigdangit (326) 2 years ago

Do you care to refute anything I said, or just continue to post topical information that is not related to anything posed?

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (21780) 2 years ago

You don't have anything more than a rant. You never do.

[-] 1 points by JuanFenito (847) 2 years ago

I know... none of that stuff in the OP made any sense. Bullying is not nearly as big of a problem that the corporate media makes it out to be, and if you ask any teacher, they will tell you their favorite students are the ones who don't want to be there.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (21780) 2 years ago

Oh, bullying is a problem. A big one. In fact, there are even select kids that an administration may look the other way. A second problem is girl bullying because it isn't in your face as boy bullying. It is often hard to catch. It's very low key.

But, to weave that into justification for kids to drop out is pretty stupid.

Heaven forbid you teach your kids to keep their traps shut.

[-] 2 points by DanielBarton (1345) 2 years ago

yeah bullying was a problem i was bullied to the point of deep depression for six years. but i still dont think the government should step in it should be a local thing not a national thing

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (21780) 2 years ago

It isn't relevant to a national thing. The vast majority of education decisions are made at the state and local levels.

[-] 1 points by DanielBarton (1345) 2 years ago

ok then what is your point to the comment above mine

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (21780) 2 years ago

Could you repeat that in English, please?

[-] 0 points by JuanFenito (847) 2 years ago

I guess you are at odds with GypsyKing and I

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (21780) 2 years ago

:D

Nice try, asshole.

[-] 0 points by JuanFenito (847) 2 years ago

What the heck are you talking about? Nice try what? Do you just look for excuses to call names and start arguments?

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (21780) 2 years ago

Why Juan...........I have no idea what you are talking about.

bats lashes

[+] -4 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Does school bullying and apparent acceptance of such practice in school lead to bullying in public?

By Government officials or by corporations?

Is this another nip it in the bud "NEEDED REFORM ISSUE"?

Protect our children, raise them to be good people.

Show them the way.

Do not sweep shit under the rug!

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (21780) 2 years ago

I think it does. Children mimic adults. When they are growing up, they will find themselves in situations that are new and they will rely on how they saw their parents encounter similar situations. They learn when it is ok to lie, cheat and steal. They learn they can treat others like crap. Then it shows up in schools and later on when they have careers.

Don't you feel sorry for JuanFenito's children?

[-] 0 points by PretendHitGirI (13) 2 years ago

So your parents were convicted and executed for mongoloid voodoo and witchcraft. Too bad they didn't teach you which way to wipe before the salt dissolved them.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (21780) 2 years ago

PretendHitGirI I murder bad or good people for money. Listen to my obama gobbling and do not confuse me with facts or reality or you, your friends and family will be next. I gots my jiggin azz a silenced AK47 9mm shotgun and will show you what fo.

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[-] -2 points by PretendHitGirI (13) 2 years ago

GirlFriday

Bargain hooker, bring your own penicillin and 3 quarters.

Crack dealer, kids make great mules!

Strung out retard.

Proud carrier of every strain of HPV known to exist.

HIV positive from doing monkeys and my siblings.

Communist because I am inept.

I ate my parents.

I rig elections and tote bribes for Soros.

My hands are dirty but that's never stopped me from snitching on my corrupt partners, or anyone else.

Punch me square in my whore face if you ever see me.

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[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

hey low life, find you a shrink. You don't even qualify as a troll, just plain mental.

[+] -4 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

I agree wholeheartedly.

This is also the great tragedy and sadness of both parents working. Missing out on the most important formative years of their child's life.

This is why children need "THE VERY BEST OF CARE" Right from day 1 before day 1 in the as yet largely unrecognized pre-school. Social studies social behavior and forming positive outlook is prime importance. Proper Social Responsibility performed by adults is not an option it is a "NECESSITY".

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (21780) 2 years ago

Exactly.

[+] -4 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

I mean.

ALSO

Why is it that one day a parent does not recognize their child.

It is because their life together has been shortened, has been stolen. Hence much of what is wrong in youth behavior today. No proper guidance from loving parents or a responsible system.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (21780) 2 years ago

I think that it is a bit more than parental responsibility. I think that you have kids that are not accepted or allowed to engage in the communities. If they go to church they may be a little engaged there. However, there is always an in and out group there and, frankly, they may think its a crock. I don't necessarily mean volunteering either. I mean...........community. They really and truly cannot see participating in the community.

To be fair there is a trend towards isolation. Adults send kids mixed messages. All adults.

And let's not kid ourselves. There are times when your sweet child turns 13 and all of a sudden he is awake during the night, sleeps during the day, and has turned into an alien.

[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

This has been an ongoing assault on society. The 1st thing is to realize it. Then it goes on to taking that 1st step to confront and change it.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (21780) 2 years ago

I agree.

[+] -4 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

At this time about the only thing I can say. Black mail old as time and still popular.

It is a good thing that people are coming forward.

It is sad that the others have not been hauled in yet. I have no doubt that their whereabouts are known.

Bring it out into the light of day and smack-em down hard. that should be done every time. No one is above the law and those who are supposed to be part of the system of law and of government should be punished the most fully.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (21780) 2 years ago

I agree.

This tells kids thuggery is ok with a degree and a suit.

[+] -4 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

We keep up the fight.

It is the "BEST FIGHT"!

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (21780) 2 years ago

Did you see this? http://www.lcsun-news.com/ci_20055190?source=most_viewed

That is gangbanging in a suit. The message this sends to kids is that this type of behavior is ok.

[-] 0 points by ThunderclapNewman (1083) from Nanty Glo, PA 2 years ago

There are reasons for the requirements for attending school by all children and to cull them from the chance at learning is something that seems to run counter to our principles.

There are examples of this sort of thing being done in other countries, however. Children are given a battery of test in order to determine their best aptitudes and inclinations and are placed in schools that are more suited to that child's abilities.

Further, as stated with my posted link, it's background information. Some reading this thread might actually find it useful. I apologize for grating on your sensibilities. Regarding "anything posed" please see my replies to freewriterguy. Enjoy your day, Craig.

[-] 0 points by craigdangit (326) 2 years ago

Alright, thanks. I didn't mean to come across like that, it's just that most of the replies to this thread merely stated "that wont work, you're stupid" without saying why.

Cheers

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (21780) 2 years ago

Dick

[-] 1 points by craigdangit (326) 2 years ago

Funny, that is what I often do when I am confronted with arguments I can't refute, I resort to name calling. LOL

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (21780) 2 years ago

You don't have any legit arguments. You have not been able to provide any. This is why you have multiple IDs, your a dick.

[-] 1 points by craigdangit (326) 2 years ago

Oh, that's right, you're still angry from when you got whammed a few days ago... thanks for reminding me LOL

What's illegitimate about the arguments I provided? Don't tell me you think I'm wrong and you're against compulsory education...

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (21780) 2 years ago

I didn't get whammed by anyone. You had your ass handed to you.