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Forum Post: I am an occupier

Posted 10 years ago on Sept. 25, 2012, 6:57 p.m. EST by elf3 (4203)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

  • I go to work 9-5 full time.
  • I pay my mortgage on a modest house.
  • I have no degree but pay attention to the world and never stop learning.
  • I am in a holding pattern.
  • I make enough to pay bills but barely and worry about the future and the economy and jobs and my car breaking down.
  • I have not been on the protest ground but I'm with them in spirit, defiance, and revolution, and consider myself part of the fight.
  • I do not want my government bought off by monopolies.
  • I want monopolies disbanded.
  • I think education costs too much.
  • I think health care costs too much.
  • I disagree with subsidies and government gearing that keep paying corporations no matter what and drive up prices for the rest of us.
    I think the elderly and disabled should be cared for. no one should starve.
    no one should be homeless.

  • people should work hard and those who do should be rewarded more than those who inherited money and lots of rental property and gouge the citizenry and claim a capital gains deduction.

  • wages should be taxed less than property to give people a chance to save Land - LORDS should be taxed more to discourage hording.

  • I want to end the fed.

  • I want to end monopoly advantage and give Americans those who live here on this soil the chance to be entrepreneurs and inventors unlike corporations who are headquartered and probably live in other countries yet pay my government money to make decisions and red tape for the citizenry.

  • I want a free press.

  • If I worked more hours to try to pay for school I would not have the time to go so instead i run on a lower wage treadmill wondering if i could do more with my life but realize education for the current price isn't the answer.

  • I worry that corporations don't care about polluting our bodies, food, or earth and that their lack of conscience and about partnering with corrupt governments like we see in Africa for example is now happening here.

  • I wonder if we could all end up eating out of a garbage heap with no food and no clean water.

  • I feel a need to change all of this so intensely I don't see how I can live a normal life or how I can have children until I make sure the corporations do not win then turn America and the world into a third world caste system on a planet where there is abundance for everyone.

I wonder how many people like me are part of this I propose we sound off and show them what numbers look like..

So who are you?



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[-] 5 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 10 years ago

I'll sound off. I'm 54, sort of burned out, I don't go to meetings or marches because I don't need any more trouble with cops. I like the concept of OWS and they don't need my advice. This is the most interesting site on the net for me. I can't claim to be an occupier.

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 10 years ago

You absolutely are an 'Occupier; bro' !!! It's all we can do sometimes to just 'Occupy' our own minds and opinions from the constant 'MSM-BS' !! You are Not Alone OR A Loan - you are an 'Occupier' - mos def !

pax, amor et lux ...

[-] 3 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 10 years ago

I should probably go to a meeting just to get my ass-kicked one time. I can take it, I'm old but not that old.

[-] 2 points by TommyNYC (730) 10 years ago

What do you mean by you "want to end the fed"?

I agree with most of what you said, but I was just wondering where that belief fits in.

[-] 1 points by elf3 (4203) 10 years ago

research the origins of the Federal bank

[-] 2 points by TommyNYC (730) 10 years ago

The origins of the USA were a bunch of slave-holders wanted to perpetuate their exploitation of the poor without being taxed by the crown. That doesn't mean we should scrap the constitution.

[-] 1 points by elf3 (4203) 10 years ago

no we should uphold the constitution and the fed bank is not part of that we should not be beholden to this small group of financiers

[-] 1 points by TommyNYC (730) 10 years ago

The Federal Reserve Act was in response to a series of financial crises. It was more than 130 years after the constitution was written. So, there was no way for the founding fathers to know exactly what was going to happen in financial markets that far in the future.

I agree that we should not be ruled by bankers, thats why we need to regulate the financial system. Right-wingers like Ron Paul, who call for ending the Fed, want to totally deregulate the financial industry.

[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 10 years ago

And your suggestion is?

[-] 2 points by TommyNYC (730) 10 years ago

The main problem with the Fed is the regulatory regime. Number one, I would say we should get Bernanke out of there, and replace him with someone who actually believes in regulation.

Bernanke is a libertarian who believes in deregulation. So was Greenspan.

[-] -1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 10 years ago

Holy Shit, and there we go!! Just posted something about idiots that claim Greenspan was a libertarian.

A Central Planner CANNOT be a libertarian. Its like being pro life and working at an abortion clinic. IT CANNOT HAPPEN.

Bernake believes in globalism and empire expansion. Thats why he's there, just like Greespan. Inflating the housing bubble with the help of the gov is not a fuckin libertarian.

Man, you will just take EVERYONE at their word eh? Try judging their actions once in a while.

[-] 2 points by TommyNYC (730) 10 years ago

Actually, that's the irony. Greenspan was in Ayn Rand's inner circle. This is highly documented. He essentially took the post to take a wrecking ball to all regulation, which is about as libertarian as you can get.

Sorry, I know this is too much for your lizardarian brain to handle.

[-] -2 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 10 years ago

You dont understand what your talking about, and your obsession with lizards is just more immature nonsense. Keep perpetuating the same embarrasing nonsense of the last 40 years, we all deserve it.

[-] 2 points by TommyNYC (730) 10 years ago

Greenspan was personally encouraged by Ayn Rand to enter politics.


"Ayn Rand had a profound and lasting influence on Greenspan."


"The philosophy, called "Objectivism," came from the hack writer Ayn Rand, whose disciple is Alan Greenspan, architect of the great recession."


Those are just a few of the many hits on google. Of course, if you want a really objective source, you can go directly to one of the libertarian forums. Obviously, they would be quick to claim the guy who is probably singularly most responsible for the financial crisis as one of their own. (That was sarcasm, btw)

[-] 3 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 10 years ago

Hey listen, we can call Greenspan a libertarian, Obama a liberal and Bush a conservative until we are blue in the face.

Bottom line, they are all fascsists/corporatists. There's a reason you never hear those words in the media.

[-] 1 points by TommyNYC (730) 10 years ago

Laissez-faire always leads to crony capitalism, in the same way that Marxist revolution never moves beyond dictatorship.

It's like gravity.

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 10 years ago

You mean it's an unopposable force?

Or, if you fly too high, you're off the planet?

[-] 0 points by TommyNYC (730) 10 years ago

I was thinking more of a turd swirling down the toilet, actually.

[-] 0 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 10 years ago

You act like those same politics weren't the same that led us into WWII and dropped nukes and fucked up many countries....

"Feel the Funk Back........................................................................

[-] 1 points by TommyNYC (730) 10 years ago

What politics? What are you talking about now?

[-] 0 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 10 years ago

Actually, almost any system turns into crony capitalism when the people are more concerned with crushing bic macs and watching Dancing with the Chef, than they are what their kids future is going to look like.

[-] 2 points by TommyNYC (730) 10 years ago

There is one thing about history that I really hope you can someday come to see. In the decades that followed the mid-40's, when the US had been all in all doing well economically, and there was a healthy middle class, Keynesian policies were the norm. In the 80's, conservatives, especially those who supported Reagan, began to push new economic ideas that were inspired by libertarianism. Some of them were specifically monetarist, but many were just basically anti-Keynsian (eg. crowding out) or pro-rich (eg. Laffer curve).

Since then, libertarian economic thought has become very mainstream, even among so-called "liberals". It is libertarian ideas, like the flat-tax, privatization and nonregulation in the financial sector, among many other examples, that have made the gap between rich and poor so big since the early 80's.

There are some "libertarian purists" out there, who will tell you "Milton Friedman and Alan Greenspan, they weren't real libertarians". These ultra-right ideologues, who often fashion themselves as "non-partisan", and may be socially liberal, favor a kind of total Laissez-faire, insisting that the market "simply wasn't free enough". The thing is, that has been tried. Thats how things were in the 1800s. All kinds of problems arose from that type of system, and that's exactly why we have all of the checks and balances that were put in place in the first half of the 20th century.

This is why I insist that libertarians are the enemy. They push theories that have been tried and failed. They follow a dogma that values self-interest and power, over cooperation and accountability.

[-] 0 points by richardkentgates (3269) 10 years ago

Ending the Fed is an idea rooted in government control of the currency, it doesn't get much more regulated then that, spin master.

[-] 1 points by TommyNYC (730) 10 years ago


[-] 1 points by elf3 (4203) 10 years ago

and you will see why it is a sham

[-] 1 points by TommyNYC (730) 10 years ago

So is the electoral college. So is Citizens United. So are a lot of things.

You chose to bring up the Fed. You want to end the Fed.

Central banks prevent bank runs, control inflation, and when they're not run by libertarians, central banks regulate the banking industry.

OWS has been infested, since its origins, by shady free-market fundamentalists. One of their favorite red-herrings is the "End the Fed". You seem like a smart and well meaning person, I wish you wouldn't be pulled in by their tricks.

[-] 2 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 10 years ago

Occupy has an economic theory. If you understand it you understand Occupy. Polarize the polarizers. Co-opt the co-opters.

[-] 2 points by Shayneh (-482) 10 years ago

I'll sound off also. I started out working in a grocery store when I was younger. Never had a college degree but took several college courese over the years.

Always had goals in front of me because of the jobs I worked at - laborous and hard work.

Married at the age of 23 after 4 years of service in the Navy. Also had the responsibility of raising my wifes son.

Focused on my goals and eventually, I became more proficient at my craft -

Over time I eventually I moved up the ladder and so did my pay. My job became easier because of this but it also included a lot of responsibility.

At one point in my life, I had $300 in my pocket and traveled to a big city with a camper, my wife a dog and two beat up vehicles.

After the first week, I had 3 job offers and went to work. Eventually moved from a camper to a rental house then to purchasing a house.

My wife also worked towards her degree in psychology, then masters and eventually doctrate.

We were always able to pay our bills, lots of times we were broke when we did, but there was always a job out there somewhere for me to go to.

I accomplished the goals I set, never wanted to become a millionaire just be able to live comfortable - nothing extravigant, go on vacation once a year and enjoyed the simple things in life but was always happy.

At present, I am retired, own my home, of course I am still paying on it, my wife works at home and will be retiring the first of next year.

Looking back the one thing I that noticed was we owned nothing, except the 20' camper, until I was around 45. Prior to that my wife and I (our son had moved out and went to college for his law degree - his job sucks) traveled a lot, I always had a good paying job because of this and it gave her the opportunity to eventually get her doctrate.

We were never envious of anyone and when someone succeded we were happy for them. We both always discussed decisions together when it came to lifes choices and as a result it made both of us happier and successful.

Now I am not writing this to say - look at me - that is not the reason. The reason is to give those of you who are young some insight into what it takes to eventually reach the American Dream.

I know with the way the job maket is today it toatlly sucks - but there are jobs out there that do pay well - maybe it's not what you want to do but there are other options.

If you want to succede in todays society you have to have goals - you can't think that you should have everything you want today or next year. If you do, you are going to be very dissapointed and a lot of you are.

It takes time - not one year, not five years and not ten years - you have to earn what you want over time, and to do that you have to have a goal.

When a person decides to climb a mountain how do they do it - by taking the first step and their goal is focusing on reaching the top.

Well, life is the same way - however that is not to say some people are lucky and may find a shortcut while others take the long way - but eventually if the goal is to get to the top, it can be done - it just takes focus and determination - I know for I have done it.


[-] 2 points by elf3 (4203) 10 years ago

you also did it in a different economy ... so your post dear sir is irrelevant to the times

[-] 1 points by Shayneh (-482) 10 years ago

Being negative about your lifestyle only does one thing - it keeps you from suceeding.

[-] 2 points by elf3 (4203) 10 years ago

if you wish upon a star ....makes no difference who you are ....anything your heart desires will come to you - just believe wink wink and all will be your hearts desire - tee hee. I WISH I wish I wish - I could go back in time and be a baby boomer that way I can have some upward mobility too and also live entirely off the next generation - while denying them the very same comforts and oh things like jobs, affordable education, health care, retirement when I cast my vote.

[-] 1 points by notaneoliberal (2269) 10 years ago

Just click your heels together.

[-] 1 points by JustinDM (251) from Atascadero, CA 10 years ago

If you tried living in a camper in our county you would be ticketed out of town. You grew up in another country. America is not what it once was. The jobs offered to the great majority of people in this nation will never afford them the dignity of there own home. If your story is true then my hats off to you for a job well done but know your crowd before you get in the sand box.

[-] 2 points by elf3 (4203) 10 years ago

I think if you buy a year pass you can camp in the walmart lot so that could happen - then you can go work in there too part time for minimum wage - you can really stash those savings - yeah now we're talking - what do ya know Shayneh is right on - part time minimum wage is gonna take me all the way baby right out of my ridiculously priced camper and gas it takes to fill it- but you can afford that too just start stripping, get involved in the sex trade whatever you have to do - America is full of opportunities if you look for them

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 10 years ago

GR8 news - I saw a protest banner outside a local Wallmart yesterday when I drove by. Looks like a possible union action as the banner complained about unfair labor practice.

[-] 1 points by elf3 (4203) 10 years ago

woot woot !!

[-] 1 points by Shayneh (-482) 10 years ago

Sorry but I disagree with you with regard to living in a camper - there are campgrounds for this purpose - you just don't park your camper in a parking place on a street nor shopping center.

As far as growing up in another country - sorry you missed that one - I grew up in America.

America is and can be what it used to be but the attitude of the people have to change -

Your post is an example of what America is "not about". I guess it's easier to claim defeat then to work to claim victory.

As I have stated - the purpose of this post is to give people the inspriation to succede - not the inspiritation you stated - jobs will never afford them the dignity to own their own home.

Sorry to disappoint you but what you say is not true -It's all a matter of how determined an individual is to succede.

[-] 2 points by notaneoliberal (2269) 10 years ago

The opportunity that existed when you were younger no longer exists today.

[-] 0 points by Shayneh (-482) 10 years ago

There are plenty of opportunities out there one just has to be persistent and they will find it - it's not going to be handed to anyone and it may require sacrafices -

[-] 2 points by notaneoliberal (2269) 10 years ago

The old Horatio Alger routine. Sorry, no there are not "plenty" of opportunities A lot of things have happened since you and I were young. Sorry you weren't paying attention. The US has been de-industrialized. Tens of millions of jobs have been offshored. Real wages for the working class have declined. .

[-] -1 points by Shayneh (-482) 10 years ago

Want to take up my challenge - you have been brow beaten into thinking there are no good paying jobs when in fact there are - but they aren't going to come to you - you have to go to them.

There is nothing anyone can do for a person who has a negative outlook when it comes to a job search - that type of individual will never find success.

[-] 1 points by notaneoliberal (2269) 10 years ago

I run my own business. This isn't about just me. A positive attitude is good thing, but if you think that that is the only factor at play, you've missed a lot of cold hard statistical facts.

[-] 1 points by Shayneh (-482) 10 years ago

I have also been involved in running a business so I know full well what you are talking about. I never did say that a "positive" attitude is the only factor at play.

If you read my post you will see that there are quite a few other things involved.

So with that being said let me ask you - who would you hire - a person with all the necessary qualifications, a positive outlook, the desire to succede and the thirst to learn or just a person with the necessary qualifications that just wants a job?

[-] 1 points by notaneoliberal (2269) 10 years ago

I think you know the answer to that, from my previous statement. There are now millions of our fellow citizens that were working a relatively short time ago and now they aren't. Did they all lose their jobs because they suddenly developed a bad attitude? By the way.both Romney and Obama have facilitated the off shoring of jobs, regardless of their rhetoric.

[-] 1 points by Shayneh (-482) 10 years ago

I'm not posting any rhetoric and I do understand that there are millions of our fellow citizens that were working and aren't now.

So lets examine where the problem is -

Is it with the government - yes Is it with people wanting cheap chinese made products - yes Is it with businesses sending jobs offshore only to have those products shipped back into this country that people buy - yes

So how do we solve the problem

Start by demanding from our government to tax companies that send jobs overseas

Start by educating the people of this country that everytime they purchase a chinese made product they are taking away jobs from people in this country who would rather be working

Start by forcing the government to invest in small business and manufacturing in this country

Start by requiring any or all projects funded with government money ensure all products, goods be American made.

That would be a start.

[-] 1 points by notaneoliberal (2269) 10 years ago

I wasn't talking about you indulging in rhetoric. I was talking about the candidates rhetoric. Ok, so you do see the problem. Good for you. The answer though, imo, can be nothing short of dismantling the free trade agreements that we have allowed the politicians to enact, and reinstate tariffs.

[-] 1 points by Shayneh (-482) 10 years ago

I agree

[-] 1 points by notaneoliberal (2269) 10 years ago

Good to hear.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 10 years ago

I love the easy way

one can just jump off a bridge than go through the trouble of making a noose

[-] 1 points by JustinDM (251) from Atascadero, CA 10 years ago

Admit it, your one percent mole.

[-] 1 points by Shayneh (-482) 10 years ago

Sorry but I am part of the working class of America. I will be willing to bet any one of you who say it's there are no jobs out there that I can get a job tomorrow if I so desire.

I will put up $1,000 to challenge anyone that even though I have been retired for 2 years I can get a job - any takers?

And I won't even get a job in the trade I have always worked in - I will do it in a different trade.

[-] 1 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 10 years ago

Never heard a sailor say, "if I so desire" before. I'm sorry, I'm trying really hard not to laugh right now.

[-] 1 points by JustinDM (251) from Atascadero, CA 10 years ago

Have you looked at the cost for that camping? Its not much cheaper than renting. Besides most camp grounds have policies against 'extended' visitors.

[-] 1 points by Shayneh (-482) 10 years ago

So if that's the case then rent. It's very easy to be negative when it comes to deciding lifestyle - live in a tent if that will work.

[-] 1 points by JustinDM (251) from Atascadero, CA 10 years ago

If you had any respect for the working class lifestyles in this country you would be as outraged as I about Obamas private schools and Romneys outsourcing of jobs away from the states. The Ideals of a nation of hard working middel class families who own their own home are not represented by ether party. Do you not get out much anymore? Do you not see what is happening?

[-] -1 points by Shayneh (-482) 10 years ago

I am outraged but apparently there are a lot of people in this country who don't understand that Obama is destroying this country instead of building it up.

At least Romney talks about building up the middle class, the working class and small business. All Obama talks about is taking away from businesses and making the middle class think he will help them.

[-] 2 points by JustinDM (251) from Atascadero, CA 10 years ago

If you believe that, there is nothing I can do to help you.

[-] 1 points by Shayneh (-482) 10 years ago

Hey, I'm not the one complaining about not having a job nor am I complaining about the success of business -

I succeded in what I wanted to do during my working career and If I had to do it over again I would know how to do it.

[-] 0 points by alva (-442) 10 years ago

you'll never get through to those with an entitlement mentality.

[-] 2 points by JustinDM (251) from Atascadero, CA 10 years ago

I'm with you 100%


[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 10 years ago

why should people work hard?

[-] 2 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 10 years ago

Lol. Seriously. We don't have to worry about that in the US anymore, not since China has embraced the so-called "protestant work ethic".

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 10 years ago

let those fools send us G phones

[-] 1 points by elf3 (4203) 10 years ago

not why should they work so hard but why should they work so hard so much and for so little just to pay for prices/ commodities that have been set by a few monopolistic industries? Really it is oil and gas, communications, food, rent or mortgage, insurance, cars, electric setting the price of your life to live here on this planet and in this country - it's like the noblemen paid off your kings to force you to be indentured (oh wait I guess they have) history does repeat though now we call them corporations and government instead of noblemen / lords and kings

[-] -2 points by alva (-442) 10 years ago

why shouldnt they?

[-] 2 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 10 years ago

The 'live to work' mentality is dead in the US. Finding work can be very difficult, and working for yourself can be too. The idea that hard work will allow you to hold onto a job is dead. People generally know it won't and just about everyone is expendable. We are just flesh soon to be replaced by another person or a robot. We are a 'resource'.

[-] 0 points by alva (-442) 10 years ago

the handout entitlement mentality is what the dems push. fascism ( statism)considers you a resource, capitalism does not.

[-] 1 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 10 years ago

You guys are funny.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 10 years ago

the employers don't need them

[-] 1 points by dreamingforward (394) from Gothenburg, NE 10 years ago

Occupy is an action verb. You are only a typist unless you are taking action.

[-] 1 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 10 years ago

elf3, you are an occupier.

[-] 1 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 10 years ago

I joined this forum in December because Occupy shared many of my ideals. In late December my brother was arrested in Occupy Oakland without cause. The last half of his arrest was on youtube. A switch turned on in my brain that day. If it wasn't for that arrest, I still might be sitting behind the keyboard talking about Occupy, never even bothering to join a group on the street.

So if you find me occasionally offensive, or argumentative, that's probably why. I would rather ruffle a few feathers, take the heat, and move Occupy forward rather than let it stagnate in meaningless chatter about side issues that really don't apply.

[-] 0 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 10 years ago

Amen to that.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 10 years ago

"9-5" : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwDMFOLIHxU :-)

pax, amor et lux ...

[-] -1 points by HeatherL (-30) 10 years ago

I am an occupier but I keep on getting negatives, why????

[-] -1 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 10 years ago

"I have not been on the protest ground but I'm with them in spirit, defiance, and revolution, and consider myself part of the fight."

You're not part of the fight unless you do something. Spirit, defiance, and revolution withheld don't accomplish anything. Caring is action, not inaction.

We have over 100 members on our two local Occupy facebook pages. We average 4 a week who actually go to the protests.

[-] 7 points by elf3 (4203) 10 years ago

we need numbers and what I'm saying is I believe we are out here ... groups like the humane society or ACLU or AARP or whatever have numbers, but i don't believe they have anything on us. Occupy made a lot of mistakes in the beginning - making themselves loyal to a party line, picking divisive issues to focus on, talking about tangential things that had nothing to do with the purpose of taking on corporatism. Occupy needs to bring us into the protests which so many times I wanted to go to and then they would back some weird issue that would have pigeon whole-d me into something I wasn't willing to say I am part of. The movement has re-centered and I think that's important. It matters that I align myself with the movement - because that means there are a lot of people like me - How do you get us out in the field ? This is the question occupy needs to be thinking about ...don't make me regret it big important thing (dignity intact) post protest - I don't want to be surprised by anything and be holding a sign for one thing and it turns out it was also for something else - neither does anyone else -which happened a lot in the beginning. How are you going to get me out there? Show me your numbers - show us we won't look like fools and show us there will be a lot of people there - show the politicians how many people feel like I do who maybe aren't standing in front of a camera (or no camera really since an untelevised protest isn't accomplishing it anyway.) The numbers at this point are important = what percentage of Americans support this movement: counts big and I'll say that the fact that you would nay say a supporter is weird - do ya think the ACLU or AARP turns down members?

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 10 years ago

"The media liked the Occupy movement when it maintained camps, providing visual spectacle available anytime during slow moments in a 24-hour news cycle. The camps got the movement off the ground and gave it the media presence needed to launch its memes and spread globally. The post-camp Occupy movement is proving a bit too cerebral for a media machine that prefers shiny objects and flashing lights to substance. The subsequent phase of the Occupy movement has so far included teach-ins at libraries and universities, saving homes from foreclosure, helping workers successfully unionize, lobbying governments to divest fom criminal banks, creating homeless shelters, and evicting predatory lenders from college campuses. An Occupy group in California created a community farm. In New York, Occupy groups played a large role in pressuring the governor to extend the "millionaire's tax." Occupy groups pressured corporations to stop funding the American Legislative Exchange Council, which authored reactionary legislation sponsored by pro-corporate politicians in statehouses around the country."

"These are all measurable activities or victories organized or won by disparate local Occupy groups. Occupy activists are now organizing student debt actions and voter registration drives. There are countless stories—and all of this, along with the entire camp phase of the movement, has transpired in just one year. During this time, a large plurality of Americans started to list the disparity between the rich and the poor as one of the nation's most pressing issues. This is a fantastic track record for a one-year-old movement. And it is very threatening to the entrenched corporate interests who want us to believe that this movement is over - or better yet, that it never happened." from :

Thanx for your heartfelt 'forum-post' .{:-)

e tenebris, lux ...

[-] 1 points by ChemLady (576) 10 years ago

The groups you mention and other have numbers because they have a clear agenda. They also engage in political activity within the system, supporting candidates that offer to support their agenda.

You've pretty much described the problem with offering too many issues to protest in the hope of attracting more supporters. In the end it leads to a sort of confused lack of identity.

[-] 1 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 10 years ago

You bring up a great point. How to get you out in the field? If you click on your username it will go to your page and on the right side is a map. Below it are usernames in your immediate area. Contact some of them to find you closest Occupy group, or search the internet for a local group. What city do you live in? Maybe someone here knows a group nearby.

Membership in Occupy can't be purchased with dollars. Just positive action.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (23680) 10 years ago

Since when does elf3 withhold spirit and defiance?

[-] 3 points by elf3 (4203) 10 years ago

thanks bw - for giving me some inspiration to keep going - I hope that being a supporter will lead to more involvement in the future - I don't think I'm alone out here and not ashamed to admit that because I work and don't have a huge amount of time or money to be traveling and sleeping for days on a square - I think this means we need to be more creative and find more ways that people like me can get involved and get our numbers and voices heard too.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (23680) 10 years ago

Elf3, you have zero, nada to apologize for. Consider this, there are many ways to protest. Writing on an internet forum is one of them and it's rather 21st century, don't you think? The written word has always been a powerful thing, so, Jrhirsch is wrong.

[-] 1 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 10 years ago

When elf3 doesn't take action that causes others to take positive action? She disagrees, she worries, she feels. And makes no difference. Sitting behind a computer complaining about injustice doesn't move us forward.

If Chris Hedges sat and complained about the NDAA, what would have been accomplished? Nothing. Instead he took action with others, bringing a suit to overturn the unconstitutional provisions it contained.

[-] 5 points by beautifulworld (23680) 10 years ago

I disagree with you. Elf3 contributes. And, you could be more positive. Really? Fair to compare anyone here to Hedges?

[-] -2 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 10 years ago

How does elf3 contribute?

The positive action is to get Elf3 and the others out from behind the keyboards and into the streets.

Hedges could have remained comfortably behind his keyboard. He chose action instead.

[-] 6 points by elf3 (4203) 10 years ago

also just because I'm not sleeping in a tent doesn't mean I'm not writing congressmen or signing petitions or adding my name to groups that are fighting for the things we need done - you're typing from a tent but noone is showing it on television so what is different about what you are doing? There need to be more creative ways the people out here can be involved, we can get heard and ways we can make our voices and numbers count. The whole tent thing too is just being used against the movement in the propaganda it has unfortunately become a turn-off to the people on the fringes. Maybe people not directly in it can offer some perspective on what's working what's not - giving feedback is important - that is the whole point of the comments; is it not?

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 10 years ago

professional web sites are often cluttered

[-] 1 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 10 years ago

Feedback is vitally important. What is working and what isn't. I wish we had more on the ground tactical discussions than the countless side issues here.

I'm not in a tent. Typing from from my house. No television crews at our protests. But we do have literally 5-10,000 cars go by on a good Friday afternoon. People who would never have heard of Occupy do see our message. We are consistent and we aren't dead.

My rant here is not directed at you, but all of the Occupiers who should be at the street corner with us, but aren't. All it takes is a sign and a little courage. Yes, a few people will laugh at you, flip you off, give you a thumbs down,and tell you to get a job. But a hundred more will give a fist pump, a peace sign, a thumbs up, a honk, and a shout. And that hasn't changed in the last 9 months. If we could get more people out and participate, we we would truly change America. The only difference between Occupy and the majority is knowledge. That transfer is what we're all about.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 10 years ago

Re. "The only difference between Occupy and the majority is knowledge. That transfer is what we're all about." Lo and we may agree :-) Not so easy to transmit or transfer that "knowledge" just by leafleting and placards - though that is absolutely very important - and maybe the 'inter-web' and this forum for example, can serve an 'information function', no ?

ad iudicium ...

[-] 1 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 10 years ago

I agree that whatever methods transfer that knowledge should be used. Facebook, email, letters, word of mouth, protest. They are all proper. Even forums.

I think you also understand that too much of our energy devoted to this forum never leaves the forum. It stays bottled up here. I want to see more of the knowledge that is gained here, spread elsewhere.

Judging by the number of posters here, considering this is a national organization, the number of people who read our posts is incredibly low. We could have the most profound discussions on the planet here and few would ever know. That is why I continually challenge the status quo we have developed here. The message has to get out.

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 10 years ago

Re. 'OWS', you say - "considering this is a national organization, the number of people who read our posts is incredibly low." but I'm not sure at all how you could claim to know this in order to state it as 'object fact' like that. Yet we may again agree in "The message has to get out.". Finally, consider that some here may try to exhort, explain or expound while others can choose to chastise, cajole or chivvy & perhaps it's a question of taste & a function of personality but the points should still be sharp & true.

ad iudicium ...

[-] 2 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 10 years ago

You can go to the bottom right and click on "github" to get more info. I think this graph shows the activity here over the last year. Not an expert in its terminology though.


When a sharp and true point punctures the dull and false, it cries out in agony. Is there a way to do it painlessly?

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 10 years ago

Well, well, well !!! We live and learn - sometimes & yep, 'no pain - no gain' - usually !! + Thanx for the link and pointer !

vale ...

[-] 1 points by elf3 (4203) 10 years ago

I agree people need to see us as they see themselves in us and see we are around and like them - hard-working dis-enfranchised Americans. I don't know how but the media has succeeded in painting this as a fringe weirdo movement. I think it was due again in part to the tangential issues and the lack of available showers/ camping naturalistic vibe. I like the latest developments: The family fun atmosphere. I also had a bitch of a time getting my politically opposite husband to join me at protest even though he agrees with the reasons for the movement. He thought he was going to be preached to or look like part of a weirdo hippie cult or even arrested. That perception has stuck and seeped into the minds of people. They are afraid of looking weird or like "joiners" or being denied boarding airplanes. I can't say how to fix that problem...i mean we need joiners but maybe a little less party doctrine would help people feel they are still free thinking and not being indoctrinated. Sticking just to Corporate Monopoly Money intertwined with Corrupt Politics. all the side issues stem from that problem but then you have the problem of not allowing people to express themselves. This is all working in favor of those who want to extinguish it as fast as they can before media can no longer deny our existence. Maybe it is time to put it on paper - to become a valid group with donations and registered card carrying memberships ...?

[-] 1 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 10 years ago

I'm impressed. Getting your politically opposite husband out there to protest. None of our members have accomplished that great feat. Congratulations.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (23680) 10 years ago

Jrhirsch, this is an internet forum. We discuss things here using a keyboard.

[-] 1 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 10 years ago

Discussion accomplishes nothing until we make the choice to take action.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (23680) 10 years ago

Well, why are you here all the time then? Go act!

[-] 1 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 10 years ago

I have been since January. When people say we are with you in spirit. It's a lie. Pure BS. Either you are there or you aren't.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (23680) 10 years ago

Have you taken over the body of Thrasymaque, or he you? LOL.

[-] 1 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 10 years ago

That's funny! He did reply under my name a couple times about 6 months ago. Too bad his intellect is focused against us.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 10 years ago

I'm not from your hemisphere (or possibly planet!) - so what does that make me then ?! Also consider :

dum spiro, spero ...

[-] 1 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 10 years ago

I think you were from the U.K.? If you're in the street over there it makes you an Occupier.

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 10 years ago

Consider : cogito ergo sum and thus also : 'cogito ergo 'occupier' sum' ^,~

I think it is rather presumptuous, a little rude and somewhat revealing that you think that it is your definitions & pigeon-holes that are paramount & that I ought to be conforming to - hubris much ?!!

minima maxima sunt ...

[-] 1 points by notaneoliberal (2269) 10 years ago

I think he's a she.

[-] 1 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 10 years ago

My apologies to Elf3.

[-] 2 points by JustinDM (251) from Atascadero, CA 10 years ago

taking time to write this post is an action. Lets focas on our opponents, not our friends. Hear in SLO county we also have a problem with less than half a dosen people showing up for actions. A big part of the problem with us is people fighting amongst themselves more than they do with the one percent.