Forum Post: How do libertarians do it?
Posted 12 years ago on Dec. 2, 2011, 1:17 p.m. EST by debndan
(1145)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Wow, been writing Atlas Shat for a couple days now. After trying to get inside the minds of the likes of Ron Lawl and glen beck, I feel like this crude won't wash off, feel permanently scarred.
Any trolls out there know how that I can 'get clean' after writing the most soulless, baseless junk? How do you guys do it?
Glen Beck is not a real libertarian. His views on liberty change abruptly depending on what political party he is talking about. Like most Democrats and Republicans he believes in his liberty to do what he wants to do but not yours.
he also loves rick santorum....santorum is no where near a libertarian
google santorum and you get libertarians....hehehe
Not all libertarians are strict individualists.. and even for those that are, there is always room for compromise with states rights.
Not all individualists are libertarians , either.
Some of us like protecting the enviroment , coming together for specific causes...some of us dislike the worship of money and free markets on aesthetic grounds too...some of us are against corporate personhood
Thats just left wing libertarianism.
Some Dennis Kucinich sh!t.
Dr. RonPaul is against corporate personhood, too.
Youtube it.
does he still want to go to the gold standard, or was i miss informed about this point?
He does.. but i think that he is willing to give MMT a look.
He just wants to end the fed and stop private banks from controlling interest rates and the formula of the creation of money.
in my opinion, government has no place regulating my morality. in fact they suck at it, the prison population is my proof. their only reason for existing is to regulate interstate commerce.
I'm not that much of an anarchist, but that is the beauty of states rights.
We can all exist happily and civilly with it.
Lol.
The Federal Government needs to uphold the Bill of Rights, though.
We could really use a Constitutional Convention, too.
Dr. Paul would also most likely offer this.
He wants sound currency..
Kucinich offered a plan the other day that i tihnk that Paul would be willing to take a serious look at.
Aye, Paul is way better than Obama... I think that has been proven by now.
We know that Paul aint gonna sell out.
A Resource based economy is better than a fed governed fiat system. But the Fed is always better than gold or silver backed currencies.
Fiat money exists because it allows for easier trade with other nations.Say Japan makes Blue Ray Players, and America grows corn. The fiat money supply allows for one Blue ray to equal x bushels of corn. Or what ever Japan is willing to trade as their goods, is how many of our goods we will sell to them. This is what governs the exchange rate. But this configuration has allowed speculators to devalue and manipulate money. And special interests have been allowed to capture the Fed. I find these to be problems. Can I get a whup, whup! Therefore, if our money is tied to all of our production, not just gold or silver, and not susceptible to regulatory capturing, then speculators would be forced to create value in our economy, instead of betting high or low and fidgeting with the machinery. A Resource based economy is better than a fed governed fiat system. But the Fed is always better than a gold or silver backed currency. I believe the dollar should be pegged to the GDP of units sold, divided by the number of the population between 16 and retirement age. If the GDP is 365,000 units sold per year, and the population has a workforce of a 100, then the value of a credit is 365. The credit is then divided by allocation to the most productive industries. Say we have fifteen industries, (or fifty states), we divide them by 365, which equal twenty one. From this point, you make a graduated line graph with fifteen points and twenty one being the median. a straight line from 1.1 to 15.15 The affluence ladder would still be intact, leaving its demise for another generation. It would also incentivize industries to out produce and sell, in order to be at the top. Therefore, the market can allocate responsibly. If we attach our currency to just precious metals, than someone, ant namin’ names, can hoard them, or corner the market. Having the money pegged to production, ensures that if someone corners a service or product, the market can invest elsewhere, without the whole system stagnating. The fiat system has reached the point of hording and has left the FED with no alternative but to devalue wealth. If wealth was a function of efficiency and not money, then the motivation in each industry becomes selling stuff more efficiently. This would also stifle management and labor disagreement, diverting shutdowns in the factories. Industries become the unions, industries become the community and they become the political arm of the people. Those that are smart and hard working get more of the credit allocation than those that enjoy life and are not so down with hard work and over thinking. The fiat paradigm allows speculators to devalue and manipulate money, but if our money is tied to all of our production, not just gold or silver, then speculators would be forced to create value in our economy. Venture capitalists would find it in their interests to create more sustaining ventures. Instead of betting low and selling high, Wall Street would be interested in raising GDP units sold. I just know from history that having wealth dependent on one product is a recipe for disaster. In economics it is called the resource curse. I believe that gold as the only decider of wealth is the same as the resource curse that has plagued many nations. If you put all your eggs in one basket and the basket's bottom falls out, then you go without eggs. Also, if you allow the wolf to guard the basket, he is going to eat the eggs.
I agree. We need a decentralized currency based on many commodities not just precious metals. No single entity should have a monopoly on money production.
Paul would not be able to enact any reforms on his own.. so, I do believe that MMT is something that he would seriously consider.
well, because i'm a felon and can't vote in Arizona, you don't have to convince me he is legit. another reason I am hesitant about telling all my family and friends to vote for him is his inability to leave his party. i have more respect for Arlen Specter than i do for Ron PauI. Just because when he seen his party flip its wig, he Flipped Flopped. that may not be a good strategy for a sports enthusiast, but politics is not a spectator sport. capitalists flipp flopp all the time. it's called learning more and changing your mind.
Paul might win.
He could take Iowa and that would rocket him to New Hampshire..
Nevada and South Carolina are always in play for him and with his 'Plan To Restore America' saving 'entitlements' for those that need them, as well as allowing younger people to opt out, makes him a strong contender in Florida, too.
Dont blink. Dr. RonPaul could be the Republican nominee.
I will never vote for a Republican or a Democrat. They have been bought by the enemy. Banks, Foreign Interests like lobbyist for China and Israel. He individually may be clean but he is surrounded by filth. Guilt by association.
then we will see if he is a loyalist to his convictions or a part hack.
I think that over the past several decades he has already shown us where he stands on that.
if you knew your team had enough votes to pass a legislation and you wanted to play the game for the long hall, wouldn't the wisest thing to do is vote against a bill you knew had the votes. That is stratagem in a nut shell. but, yes, we will see.
Interesting point. I could see Paul doing more to just get the Dems involved, though.
Hes in his 70's and is about to retire. I dont see him selling out to principle at this point. He would have done that a long time ago.
Lol.
LOL!
Revel in the crud and get rid of your compassion instead. That is how the libertarians do it.
We're usually too busy being productive to read novels. We're usually too busy going about our own lives and improving ourselves to worry about what other people have or are doing.
However, Rand was right; the individual is the most powerful unit in the world.
Maybe get off your ass and go for a run.
Great! That worked, now back to work
Though I still do feel like a scatmunching neocon, only slowly wearing off
Well, although I don't consider myself a Libertarian, I do believe the Organic Constitution, tweaked here and there and a bit of polish to update with social and government issues of today, is a near perfect instrument for government of the people, by the people and for the people.
To think outside that, as you seem to do, I imagine an infant with no developed sense of wrong or right, unlearned as to fair and equitable, not understanding enough of human nature and realities to comprehend that true democracy has no future in governing all 50 states, zero tolerance for any gratification that isn't instant, and no vision for a peaceful and prosperous future........... etc....
then I'm sure I've crawled inside the mindset of many who fail to see the beauty of relieving the overly empowered, very corrupt and highly ineffective Federal government, of it's mighty sword and bringing much decision making closer to home where our fellow states-persons are much more easily held accountable and more immune from so many blatantly treasonous activities which have long since become standard operating procedure in DC, Wall Street, and Big Corporations.
I am guessing that you don't realize that the World is actually interconnected. What happens on Wall Street clearly influences what happens in Montana or Missouri or Arizona. While you may have greater proximal influence because of driving distances and a somewhat smaller population, I imagine that Walmart is the largest retailer in your vicinity or that Goldman Sachs or private equity funds redirecting investments to overseas nations, does in fact influence what you can buy, at what price, from whom, at what location. Yes, the federal government is frequently ineffective and should be democratized to improve its performance, which Occupy Wall Street in fact appears to be motivated in doing. If decision-making power is left to local and state governments, how would you and your fellow locals influence Big Corporations and Wall Street? They will simply take their money and investment elsewhere if they don't like your choices. And certainly, laissez-faire which is the ultimate dogma of libertarianism, is not about redistributing power locally or decentralization of government, it is about having no regulations at all and leaving power to those who have the money and control to wield it through the absence of rules – local or national. Libertarianism’s central premise is to allow Nature and its evolvement to govern human behavior. That would put the World in a survival-of-the-fittest mode…
I am absolutely for abolishing publicly owned corporations, wall street, the stock market and any other enterprises based on wealth extraction without adding value on the front side.
I'm fine with corrupt Walmart and Goldmans taking themselves elsewhere and will gladly help run them out of my state on a rough hewn rail.
America no longer has the luxury of concerning itself with the rest of the world, we must save our nation, FIRST and FOREMOST. Let the chips fall where they may.
Pretty good doublespeak.
You wear poorly aligned coke bottle lens type spectacles! Good for you and bless your heart!
At least I can see in high resolution.
Perhaps you need some of those.
so how do you do it? Do you use shampoo with that brainwash
Spoken like a true "infant with no developed sense of wrong or right, unlearned as to fair and equitable, not understanding enough of human nature and realities to comprehend that true democracy has no future in governing all 50 states, zero tolerance for any gratification that isn't instant, and no vision for a peaceful and prosperous future........... etc...."
product of outcome based educational programming and obviously one that should have been LEFT BEHIND!
Rinse, blather, repeat.
His prefrontal cortex has not fully developed. He lacks critical thinking skills.
hehehe, that's good. Funny because it's true.
She's talking about you and herself!
She even has a great plan for building many more public institutions for people like you.
No, baby, you lack the capacity to use critical thinking skills. You do not understand how your verbiage translates into policy. You aren't ready to identify problems and propose solutions.
When that piece of your brain grows in that deals with time and consequence then you might have the ability to offer solutions. Until that time, you remain ineffective.
Ohhhhhhh, I see your suggestions going nowhere as well as being myopic and bigger central government.
So says the child living in Libertopia. Here is your package of fail.
Oh lil girl, I made you dinner. I hope you like it!
It's a steaming cold plate of circus midget copulation. ;-)
You do know that the 11th commandment was:
Thou shalt not commit midgetry
That includes whatever is rattling about the bats and snakes where a normal mind would reside.
xoxoxo
yawn
Your old hat. Take a hike, asswipe.
Why? This is better than having to actually suffer your stench in person, and you know how I love ruffling your feathers.
I don't understand it, I know you're ancient enough that all the eggs rotted years ago. Bad batch of toilet water?
You know I'd absolutely dominate you and that you'd gladly relinquish all control in order to be subject to my demands, reasonable or otherwise.
Head like a hole..........
You are such a fuckwit.
But, you make a nice pet.
I love me too, A LOT.
Come here and show everyone how you can flatten your nose on the glorious happy trails.
Still however, I flat out refuse your marriage proposal.
Dress up the mahogany and up the ante.
You shall lavish me with vulgar amounts of manly trappings and hedonistic pleasantries. Too much is damned good, more is betterly.
hint... I don't need another red SL.
Wow, now that's some soulless garbage, it'll go GREAT in the story. Perfect monolog of a libertarian fuckwad.
Kudos.
If you beg nicely, I might let you lick my boots.
Continue with your worship and complete submission to your master, Frog.
For one day, if you work on that gag thing quite a bit, I may show you how a real man can breath through his ears or eyes.
And equally seriously honey, I will never lick Jack Thug boots.
I read James Madison, Thomas Jefferson, and the 10th Amendment (which both considered the most important sentence in the whole constitution).
"No man has a right to harm another, and that is all the government should restrain him." - Jefferson. Powers not granted to the U.S. are reserved to the People and the People's State legislatures. That means Congress should not be doing half the stuff it does (like outlawing my smoking marijuana while watching TV.)
[Deleted]
Libertarian socialists don't believe in having a government at all.
Are you sure you didn't just spin the wheel and pick a cool sounding label? You send center-left, not far-left anarchist.
Nobody believes in having no government at all. Not even anarchists. Especially not libertarian socialists.
Anarcho-syndicalists and anarcho-communists believe in a stateless society. That's two examples of libertarian socialists. What are you talking about? Where are you even getting your information?
Anarchist-communist is the epitome of human potential. Nobody can actually reach that point. I consider myself anarchist-communist, but in mind and in spirit only. I understand the need for government because I have to be practical. I guess you could say they don't believe in any government but it is in the same way that religious people don't believe in life on earth. They don't really believe that though they are just afraid of the cold dark death so they come up with a fantasy world called heaven that they can think about when things get tough.
I find that libertarian socialism is a pragmatic form of anarchist communism.
1) Political science is not a religion, stop treating it like one.
2) Libertarian socialism is far from pragmatic.
who is the legal body that regulates the business transactions. and i only use the words to describe my belief in what government should do. When it comes to describing my political view, I’d say I’m a libertarian when it comes to social interactions, a socialist when it comes to regulating business transactions and a democrat at heart, willing to compromise as a republican citizen in consternation. That pretty much makes me an independent looking for a third way for my nation.
no government at all would be anarchy. unless you honestly believe just the courts could change the laws to suit the times.
Libertarian socialist is a specific term used to describe anarcho-syndicalists and other left-anarchists. Your beliefs sound more like democratic socialist. You don't have to be libertarian to believe in civil liberties. On the contrary, right-libertarians believe in legalized child labour, less protections on minorities and dismantling trade unions.
I had this conversation with someone yesterday, and I believe that if a family member wanted to use his child to work in his enterprise that would be ok with me. But i think I 'd have a problem If companies wanted to hire thirteen year old children to mop their floors. But, even then, it would be a trite objection.
I think you should stop calling yourself libertarian socialist because it doesn't sound like you're even clear on what it means. Look into people like Peter Kropotkin and Mikhail Bakunin if you want to understand left anarchism.
Personally, I feel that anarchism is a totally naive and impossible proposition that would indefinitely end in totalitarianism. If you really have those beliefs than fine. But if you're just trying to be a revolutionary to feel cool than cut it out. That's the last thing OWS needs.
Sadly:
Most government regulations get "hijacked" by the corporations in order to gain special favor for themselves. Such as the healthcare requirement which makes all businesses provide healthcare to employees -- unless they are named Walmart, McDonalds, or GM.
Regulation is a bad idea if it will merely be used by the corporations to gain special statuses (see Comcast and their buying-off local politicians to become a monopoly). The advantage of a free market is that it is a pure form of democracy -- the power goes into the hands of the People and they "vote" every time they spend (or don't spend) a dollar.
I'd rather have democracy than Cronyism (what we have now).
touche. If only direct democracy were in the cards. but i do try to vote wisely with my labor.
Yea