Forum Post: How Confucius fought corruption
Posted 12 years ago on Jan. 15, 2012, 10:03 p.m. EST by jinzhao
(68)
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Confucius lived over two thousand years ago in a time of great corruption. Seeking an antidote to the ills of his society, he studied the "classics", books that were ancient even in his time, which detailed the rise and fall of ancient Chinese civilization.
He studied the historical periods of growth and of decay and sought to understand the principles that lead to both. He compiled his findings into an educational system that was intended to train government officials not only to be wise, but more importantly to be good.
While beginning slowly, his educational system eventually spread throughout all of China and in fact defines the essence of China, even to this day.
He taught aspiring leaders not only the lessons of history, but also, the fine arts, which in China particularly meant calligraphy. Chinese characters naturally lend themselves to artistic interpretation, and Confucius thought that by creating beautiful works, his students also would create beauty within themselves.
As the writings of Confucian officials were distributed throughout the country, a sense of beauty was shared with all of Chinese society. All classes were influenced by it and great periods of creativity and prosperity arose in China.
New farming tools were invented or improved and agriculture flourished. Distributions systems were perfected and China grew and prospered. Products of the finest quality were developed such as porcelain, which is also called fine "china", and were desired around the world.
In those day, China's products were wanted for their fine qualities rather than their cheap prices, which allowed the Chinese people to live in great prosperity and independence.
As we survey the presidential candidates of today, we recognize none of them as great leaders. Perhaps we need an educational system once again, which through training in the arts and the study of ancient classics, teaches future leaders not only to be wise, but more importantly to be good.
Gee, you haven't been on these threads much. Our opposition thinks the arts, history, philosophy, the classics and such are a waste of time. Thank you, thank you for explaining so well why the liberal arts are critical for our survival and for their ability to transform.
Thank you for trying to make this a beautiful world.
It isn't easy, jinzhao. May I urge you to continue posting and commenting. I love the Chinese people and your history. You are a fascinating people. We could learn a lot from your input.
Thanks, but actually, I am a white dude, from the USofA. This is merely one of my "sock puppets". I'm frequently banned from here due to my unconventional perspective and have had to return in a variety of reincarnations.
I did live in China for a year, teaching English, where I picked up the moniker "jinzhao". It means something like "gold find" and corresponds to the initials of my real name.
I'm very interested in Chinese culture too, and enjoy discussing it with people such as yourself. Living in China was one of the best experiences in my life, mostly due to my relationship with a Chinese lady. It did have it's ups and downs though.
Oh, too bad you're not a real Chinese person come to show us the way. LOL! But, really, they are a much maligned people for no good reason. One of the oldest, most profound civilizations,it is hard for them to fit into the modern world. Have you ever visited a Chinese scholar garden? Oh, the thought of such a waste of building materials and money on a structure built around the premise of deep thought and not capital gain.
Actually, the "way" which the Chinese are following now has much in common with what we once called the "American way". If we would return to our traditional way of doing things, we could rapidly surpass the Chinese. We were the ones who did it first, and did it best, and we still could.
This just means returning to being a productive society in which we produce what we consume, and pursuing common decency in our art, media, and society as a whole.
I'd never been to a scholar garden, though I had been to a few Buddhist temples.
Check out a scholar garden some day.
Perhaps I will, I've been thinking of returning to China lately.
There are a few here in North America that I know of. One is in Montreal's Botanical Garden, one in Vancouver, B.C., and two in NYC, a small one in the Met and there's also one on Staten Island.
How nice, I will check them out if I have the chance.
Just wanted to see if Chinese characters work here. This is "jinzhao" - 金找.
Confucious was to China as conservatives are to the US.
And do you consider that a good or a bad thing?
I think that would depend on how you lean politically, or better yet what value you place on the freedom of an individual to express him/herself creatively and to be free from religious persecution. From what I have read it is my understanding that Confucianism branched out as the conservative wing of the Tao Teachings.
My readings on Taoism are somewhat different and unconventional. Which is that Taoism was an irrationalist cult promoted by the elites of the time to keep the people backwards and superstitious. To this day, Taoists are often looked down upon in China as offering quack medical remedies for outrageous prices.
Contemporary leaders in China often refer to Confucian concepts such as the "harmonious society" a concept which again comes from the application of the fine arts in the realms of government.
A Taoist might claim that contemporary leaders depend on the promotion of that perception precisely because they are afraid of Taoism.
A Taoist author of many centuries ago has gained international prominence, regardless of the official Chinese philosophy today.
His name is Sun Tzu.
I would also point out that your forum post completely ignores the influence of the Waring States Period of China - which was a period marked by social chaos to an extreme degree, and was highly informative to both Lao Tzu and Confucius.
Their disciples have had numerous and colorful debates throughout history over the merits of the beliefs and practices followed by either.
You have understated the influence of Taoism in China, ignored the formative period of Chinese history that gave rise to both Taoism and Confucianism, and I have no doubt that your estimate of our current President is . . ..
Like your post as answer to what is clearly a narrowly held perception by prior post.
well thanks.
The author's position regarding China and the role of Confucius is perhaps understandable, if it is true he spent a year in China and became . . . attached . . . but it is entirely one sided, reflective of the appropriate mindset approved by the government.
I won't ask his position on the issue of Tibet . . .
Fascinating.
I absolutely love it. And I hate art by the. Not the actual product just the creation. So i guess I could work wood which is an incredibly minor hobby of mine. It seems to me that art is one of the ways that we as people convey how we actually see the world and use them to make light of dark situations or light of light situations. If everyone could function in this capacity of creating art then it would create a shift in the thought process of everyone.
Do you think that there is one idea or method that will transform human nature? Is China corruption-free today, was it corruption free before the communist revolution? Is Buddhist Myanmar corruption-free today? Is Christian America free of corruption today? Was Marxist Russia corruption-free? Without changing human nature, what makes us think we can do better? That was not human nature? What evidence would convince you otherwise?
I do believe the fine arts can transform human nature. The result may not be perfection, but perhaps the next best thing.
Are we talking about one person at a time, or about the sum of our behaviors in society?
I think classical art can influence both one person at a time, and society as a whole, depending on how it is distributed. Germany was transformed into a scientific and industrial power house through classical music. Also, think about the Renaissance.
I applaud your optimism. But can we arbitrarily attribute good results to good precedents through history and ignore at the same time all of the other circumstantial events, many of which do not support much optimism.
Our present situation is definitely a consequence of the Western industrial revolution that followed quickly upon the enlightenment. But many in the 99% are not happy with what they have got for it. Many in the rest of the world are even less happy.
Human nature is quite complex, both when studied from the perspective of psychology and from the perspective of sociology. Can it be transformed? Or can it adapt to the situation? I think the latter. To the degree that we can engineer the situation we might be able to encourage different aspects of human nature, but we cannot change it. But, if our engineered situation is too extreme relative to the sum of our behavioral tendencies, then it is the situation that will be transformed, not the people living within it. So, how shall we go about getting money out of politics?
Personally, I think that our current situation is the result of the looting of our industrial culture by finance. That is, the money guys came in and moved all of our industry to China, leaving us impoverished and unable to support ourselves.
Most Americans will probably agree with you, as do I. Although, we may need to be more precise in what we mean by "finance" and "industry". So, how shall we go about getting industry working again in the United States?
First, we would need to do a bankruptcy reorganization of the entire financial system. This would be done through the passage of the Glass Steagall law, a move that most of the more knowledgeable OWSers agree on.
This would eliminate all fake money from our economy, as well as all predatory financial institutions. FDR did this in the first two weeks of his presidency, we could do the same.
Then, we would reestablish a national banking system that would be able to create credit for economic development projects at low interest rates, to be paid off over about fifty years.
The low interest rates would be possible because a national bank would not have to pay profit to private owners. The "profit" would instead go to the workers who gain employment as well as to companies which would receive more revenue.
The term of fifty years would be necessary, because real economic development takes time.
The credit would be invested only into projects that would improve the efficiency of the economy, particularly high tech transportation and energy systems, as well as affordable education and health care.
These projects would put millions of people to work, starting out as unskilled labor, but would lead them to higher skill levels through a graduated system of apprenticeships.
Investments in infrastructure would also require us to rebuild our industrial sector, to manufacture the many products and materials need for infrastructure development.
Manufacturing such industrial products is the alternative to competing with the Chinese at manufacturing inexpensive consumer goods. The Chinese would also want to buy from us the more high tech industrial products, which would allow us to balance our trade deficit with them.
Investments in more efficient transportation and energy systems would increase the amount of business conducted as well as increasing income from employment, which would provide increased tax revenue to the state, without increasing tax rates.
This would, over time, pay off the credit that was originally created to finance these projects.
Good start. Keep your ideas on the table. I would ask you more questions about your first paragraph re. "bankruptcy reorganization of the entire financial system", but I'm focussed on smaller questions at the moment.
That first paragraph is the key, its the main issue right now, for all people in the world. If we don't pass Glass Steagall, our economy will continue to go downhill.
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