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Forum Post: How can this ever work?

Posted 12 years ago on Dec. 12, 2011, 4:39 p.m. EST by randart (498)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

I agree that we need to do something to change the current system but as I read through the posts I see nothing more than a fractured mob of people preaching their own ideas of what to do. How can anything ever come out of this? It feels like chaos and widely diverging causes all elbowing their way to the front to be heard. We can't even seem to agree on basic causes and solutions for what is happening.

I feel like another person in a crowd of people watching a house burn down. Some people are yelling about why the house is burning. Some people are yelling about how to put the fire out. Some people are wondering why the house next door isn't on fire yet. And a small few are throwing gasoline on the fire thinking it is water. An even fewer group is actually trying to put the fire out and are yelling for help but they can't be heard over all the other divergent arguments going on at the same time.

I just don't see how this movement, one I support, will ever succeed in the end. When push comes to shove there will be violence in the streets if change does not happen but this forum is growing more and more to be like a barroom filled with drunkards espousing their opinions as the real truth.

All the while the house is burning down.



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[-] 4 points by nolongerasleep (57) from Cleveland, OH 12 years ago

You failed to realize whats happening here is an awakening. There's real discussion about our problems. Look at how powerful the movement is when we have no leadership, and can barely agree on anything. Imagine how strong it will be once discussions end next July and we move forward with a unified list of goals. Imagine how strong it will be when more join the cause.

Good times are ahead, be patient.

[-] 3 points by BlueRose (1437) 12 years ago

I learn something new every day from this site. I even learn from the trolls, they give up their sources of brainwashing, gives me good insight.

[-] 2 points by tulcak (698) from Prague, Prague 12 years ago

too true! I see it too. its so obvious after all the decades of the same lie game. its too transparent. but, I guess they think they are being clever. only problem is, we know how the magician does the trick now. its rather boring. time for some reality on the streets.

[-] 2 points by meewinter (2) 12 years ago

I'm sick of our government bailing out corporations instead of the people. Education is the only way the USA will grow and compete.

Everyone must have the chance to go to college. It can easily be done by the government. Just let students borrow at a fixed 3-4% interest rate for the entire cost of the education. Then, when the student gets a job take out the amount of the loan automatically and at no more than 10% of gross pay. Very, very simple. The govt. will still make money on this and everyone, regardless of their economic status can go to college.

Also, public colleges need to keep down tuition and justify tuition increases. If they can not do this they will not be allowed to accept govt. funded tuition.

I believe in the free market and I am conservative in many of my views. However, higher education can not be considered a luxury for the rich. Many gifted students are not going to college because of the cost and this is killing America. If anything needs government intervention it is this issue.

[-] 2 points by RedJazz43 (2757) 12 years ago

I do not think it is reasonable to expect anything useful to be accomplished on an internet forum, at least not in a collective sense, though it may help individuals sharpen particular ideas or arguments.

The most important thing for movement supporters to do is to become movement activists. Being active in the movement puts you in a position of being able to seriously affect it. Go to the nearest occupation or GA. Spend a day there. Go back as often as you can. If it is only once a week or once a month that is far more important than any kibbitzing on this forum or even any financial contribution could ever be.

If you are too far away from the closest GA or occupation to attend on a regular basis, start one in your community. Set up a web site. People will come. There are links on this web site describing how to set up a GA. If you still have problems ask for help from the closest GA. They will send someone to help though you may have to pay transit costs and room and board.

[-] 1 points by Fastman99 (18) from Houston, TX 12 years ago

I think it's better than we don't have two party, two ideology, us vs them mentality here. Everyone is listened to, because everyone has a piece of the jigsaw puzzle here. It's take a while to put the puzzle of what's going on together.

[-] 1 points by AFarewellToKings (1486) 12 years ago

The National General Assembly will be equipped to put the fire out, just as the First Continental Congress did in 1774

"In one of his less famous rides, Paul Revere delivered a copy of the Resolves to the First Continental Congress in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, where it was endorsed on September 17 as a show of colonial solidarity"


[-] 1 points by lgoods5 (1) 12 years ago

The way to an successful outcome is to get to the people at the front who started the "Occupy Wallstreet" movement...& try to Re-organize with them...if there are not reachable then somehow start to your own team within the movement. Things have been lost in translation...between protests marches, police harrassing & arresting people, etc... There has to be lead individuals assigned to each task topic of protest...the priortize & structure. You must understand that the people in the 1% are thristy & desperate for change...that is why the water is splashing all over the place.....The government & banks has failed the american people tremendously...& many people are barely holding on.....God is our only hope! With proper strategy & order, for worthy causes...success can be the result!

[-] 1 points by tulcak (698) from Prague, Prague 12 years ago

gloom despair and agony on me (ohhhh) deep dark depression excessive misery (ohhhh) if it weren't for bad luck I'd have no luck at all (ohhhh) gloom despair and agony on me!

[-] 1 points by tulcak (698) from Prague, Prague 12 years ago

come on everyone! join in! its fun!!!

[-] 1 points by tulcak (698) from Prague, Prague 12 years ago

here's an idea. the American people on the street making change because our government and our economy are controlled by corporations. pro-active and being Americans instead of lining up at the voting places like sheep believing (again) bullshit like "real change" or "contract with America". or, I guess you think that us Americans should stay hopeless, despondent, and lethargic. after all, its good for big business.

[-] 1 points by freeness (6) from Clifton, NJ 12 years ago


Participate in crafting a succinct, intelligent, and reasonable platform.

[-] 1 points by tulcak (698) from Prague, Prague 12 years ago

are you watching the news. the port shut down? I don't think you are being sincere. you have an ulterior motive.

[-] 1 points by randart (498) 12 years ago

I do not have an ulterior motive. I am simply frustrated by what seems to be a lack of any direction toward solution. What does shutting down a port really accomplish? I just don't see how that will get people back to work or bring justice.

I am for grand changes in the system. I have a much more radical set of ideals but I am not going to bang my head against the wall of confusion.

Just the fact that you insinuate that I have an ulterior motive for my post grants you permission to write me off. I have no ulterior motives, just frustrations.

[-] 1 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 12 years ago

It goes back to the strikes that made this nation great. because the people in most industries don't have unions they have to improvise. that is innovation. can't bake a cake if you are not willing to break some eggs. but debate me if you think me agreeing with these methods is counter intuitive to social justice.

[-] 0 points by pinker (586) 12 years ago

However, the unions have just as much monetary control over politicians as corporations and many give even more to political campaigns than corps.


[-] 1 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 12 years ago

that's a sad reality of our system. It's good by to one generation of crooks; hello to another. The voter has to be always vigilant. I think my mother's generation and me up to age thirty, forgot our responsibility to the union.

[-] 1 points by tulcak (698) from Prague, Prague 12 years ago

"what does shutting down a port really accomplish?" you're joking, right?

[-] 1 points by randart (498) 12 years ago

No. I am not joking. In the end, what was accomplished by this act? Did it bring more jobs to the unemployed? Did it feed people who are hungry? What did it do?

It made a point of we can close a port down. Does this action inspire those in the middle of the spectrum to join OWS or to see OWS as a group of thugs? In the end does it help the cause or does it plant the seeds of self destruction?

[-] 1 points by tulcak (698) from Prague, Prague 12 years ago

at the very least, it tells both the American people and the corporations who should really be in charge. but, despite that, it will force the conversation to focus on the serious issues that Americans want addressed. not on the side-shows dictated by the corporations to encourage the continuation of the status quo. we've done the status quo thing - its not what Americans want. We have just begun to speak about what Americans want, now, with the Occupy movement. If you think that is not an accomplishment, I think you have an ulterior motive. meaning that you know exactly what I am talking about. now, you know that I know what you are about.

[-] 1 points by randart (498) 12 years ago

You really don't know what I am all about. I am 100% behind justice meted out on those who would subject us all to a form of slavery. I just hope that there will be a ground swell of middle Americans that wish to join. It is hard for me to see this end when people are shopping, on credit, to buy more junk they really don't need. How do we change this mentality in the American collective consciousness?

[-] 1 points by tulcak (698) from Prague, Prague 12 years ago

"meted out"? you mean as in "revenge"? man, you just don't get it. that isn't even what the Occupy movement is about. what would punishing people change? real change is changing the reality of corporate control of our government and our economy. why the hell would anyone who really wanted real change want to spend a second on "punishment"? you are NOT 100% behind the movement because you don't even understand what its about.

[-] 1 points by Frizzle (520) 12 years ago

What Occupy is doing is waking people up. Making them realize that they are not alone. That we don't have to accept the way things are. So anything that makes the movement visible will help it grow and increase that awareness.

[-] 1 points by ZenDogTroll (13032) from South Burlington, VT 12 years ago

I am well aware that's a gas can, I'm not that confused

[-] 0 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 12 years ago

9/11 Truth is the key. If you think that sounds strange, or nebulous, you probably don't know what you are fighting. I've been at this for years. OWS is just a broader awakening.