Forum Post: How can OWS even die.
Posted 12 years ago on Jan. 11, 2012, 11:21 a.m. EST by 4TheHumanSocietyProject
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I really do not understand why people think ows will die. It will come in waves in my opinion. As long as the economy goes down, ows will grow. People think this country is gonna get better and everyone is going to be happy and sing songs about how great there life is. I ask that you please unveil the curtains that blind you. There is something seriously wrong with this world. NOT america. THE entire world.
I don't know how the occupy movement will do in the world. While protests in the Arab world will probably bring forth new governments they will likely be Islamic republics, just a different form of totalitarian state and deny rights to women. We are the 50% just doesn't have the appeal for me.
In Europe and the US the movement is too unfocused, it has almost a protest du jour feeling. Lack of leadership and organization may be seen as a strength by those involved, but in the general population it may be considered more a weakness. Occupy points to problems but doesn't work within the system to solve them.
In the US, the movement will die because, in spite of all the complaining people do. The 99% have it very good compared to the rest of the world and deep down they believe it. Note I said believe, you're not going to maintain a movement against the system when a large majority has a deep faith in the present system.
Well I foresee we wont have it very good for very long. It is going to continue to get worse and more people will have there apathetic eyes opened to a world with pain outside of there little bubble. this is all my observation and in no way am I trying to offend you.
No offense taken, I'm just cynical. I've thought from the start that OWS could have used it's national reach to recruit new people to run or congress. Even limited success there could get congress to begin to actually craft laws to improve things. OWS looks like revolutionaries more interested in where they camp out then actually changing government. Instead we get ideas flying around like debris in a tornado.
I believe that is great. Eventually all this madness will come down to one thing. Peace. I do think ows is a tad bit ridiculous most of the time lol. However, they have some truth to what they say. Through them gathering they will come up with a good ideas and for that matter better ideas. It just takes time.
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Excellent points, but all movements rise and fall. OWS had its chance, but looks like it got too focused on occupying and disrupting and less on forming a political movement. The Democrats could use OWS help, but at this point that may not be able to show support for a movement that has a tarnished image.
I support ows because I like to talk to the people in it. They are tired of the way things are and I may be able to learn something and in return teach something. I believe as long as they stay peaceful they will probably become better.
Excellent points, but all movements rise and fall. OWS had its chance, but looks like it got too focused on occupying and disrupting and less on forming a political movement. The Democrats could use OWS help, but at this point that may not be able to show support for a movement that has a tarnished image.
I don't know what fantasy land you live in or exactly when you think the OSW "image" became "tarnished," but OWS started as an act of civil disobedience, it is named for an act of civil disobedience and civil disobedience has been part of its daily practice since the first day. Sure, the Democratic Party has attempted to co-opt that energy, so far, fortunately, without success.
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I think the period of the Industrial Revolution and it's aftermath is coming to a close and we are entering a momentous period in history. This is just the beginning.
As I do agree.
""There is something seriously wrong with this world. NOT america. THE entire world."" Very true. Keep on thinking.
""I really do not understand why people think ows will die. "" Of course you don't understand, if you were born yesterday. Or that is to say, after 1970.
Nobody could understand that the hippie movement could die. Archie Bunker was taking over TV as the conservative dinosaur to be mocked. Conservatives felt utterly humiliatated at every turn. If you don't understand that, you don't understand the rise of Rush Limbaugh--a total jackass but who finally made conservatives feel good. And later Bill Maher on the left, both playing on the theme of "political correctness." Overall the conservatives fought back with far superior cunning and determination.
Sure there are a lot of hippie-inspired movements today, including perhaps OWS. But if you don't understand the feeling of the 60's and 70's--where in every town there were all kinds of liberal movements--and the "whole new generation" had the utter conviction of taking over the world and stopping all wars and injustice forever. If you think that was something small and less than sincere, or if you think it lasted, then you were born yesterday. Today, few people dare even call themselves liberal, much less hippie.
A ubiquitous criticism of the hippies was, "What will your children be like?" By the end of the 60's, this criticism was generally scoffed away. But it was totally true. "What will your children be like?" Answer: Sarah Palin.
I repeat, if you think the music you will hear on these videos was any less full of conviction and sincerity than yourself--then you must have been born yesterday--nor do you understand the test of time that is facing OWS.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhbxI5eVnM4
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1ow10_scott-mckenzie-san-francisco_music
Similarly, the OWS can die and can die hard. But some things will remain. People standing up and standing out, doing so peacefully, even with no coherent message. Always value there. Unfortunately, I cannot say there is any more.
OWS does not even have a good theme song, in any way comparable to "San Francisco" or "Aquarius." If you don't have a feel together, you don't have anything together.
Well In my opinion you are mistaken. OWS represents the inequality that this world has to offer in my opinion. Just like how every single government and kingdom has crashed and died hard. This one will to. Another one will be born and we have the technology and know to create a world that sustains with equal opportunity. Now the option if this human race wants to be unselfish lies within every human being on this earth.
to 4TheHumanSocietyProject
You don't know what I am talking about. You think about it for less than 60 seconds. Then you disagree. This is the level of thinking behind OWS. I rest my case.
That was without a doubt totally my fault. I apologize sincerely.
Ohh shit you are right. sorry! =) my bad. (>^.^)>
To 4TheHumanSocietyProject,
You are a sport. I apologize for being overhasty myself. I actually think you have some important points. After thinking it over for a day, I can perhaps be a bit more nuanced.
""As long as the economy goes down, ows will grow. People think this country is gonna get better and everyone is going to be happy and sing songs about how great there life is. I ask that you please unveil the curtains that blind you. There is something seriously wrong with this world.""
I strongly agree with this statement. It seems actually similar to what I have been saying. If anyone thinks OWS is soon going to solve their problems, and everyone go home singing, we had better think again.
Also, for me, the most thought-provoking implication by 4TheHumanSocietyProject is that OWS is not some popular fashion--but has an unstoppable core of people who are seriously troubled. This has inspired me to suggest the following "mission statement." (Only a rough draft of course.)
OWS is a statement of protest by people who find themselves homeless or jobless--and by others in solidarity with these people, who see little hope for the future. OWS can be said to lack a clear statement or direction, but we are the statement. We are jobless. We are homeless. We are powerless. What can we do? We have only decided no longer to die alone in some gutter, to be found frozen or rotting in the morning. Instead we are going to stand peacefully together and be counted and perhaps clog up the machinery. What else can we do? We do not claim to have answers. We are only a question. What is the world going to do? What are you going to do? So long as the world becomes worse, we will grow. Be thankful we are the peaceful ones. But we are not the only ones. We are only the canary in the coal mine, although multiplied by thousands. Until we have hope, we can only stay and grow and clog up the machine. Hopefully something will be done before everything grinds to a halt, or before something much worse happens than us. That is our statement.
The problem: nobody is even saying this. I have read the so-called "mission statements" produced by OWS committees. They say nothing that is not said in every boy scout manual or the "Pledge of Allegiance." One nation, with liberty and justice for all, blah blah blah. Oh my what an original untried direction--not. http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/mike-friends-blog/where-does-occupy-wall-street-go-here
Even the forum here is extremely disorganized. Then at the top of the page if you look very very carefully there is another foum (occupytogether) which is better organized but hardly noticed because it is separated. Why is it separated? Duh. Then at MichaelMoore.com there is a website that does not work, just full of messages that nobody reads. Then just blogs from Michael Moore and his clique, including numerous half-true statements with nobody appointed to check up on the accuracy of facts, thus ultimately inviting ridicule. Whereas if Moore only spent $100 on the software, he could have a very effective forum going, with volunteer moderators, and thus have thousands of people helping to develop his ideas as well as their own.
Martin Luther King was a known bully. He pushed other people around to make himself the leader of his movement and insisted on getting his own way. Otherwise very little might have been accomplished. There are pros and cons of this "leadership" approach.
I do not agree with the MLK approach. But OWS is at the opposite extreme. The prevailing attitude seems to be a determined opposition to anyone even attempting to be coherent. My kudos to whoever thought of 'occupying' foreclosed homes. That is the only coherent outcome of this movement, and very constructive. But at the same time it is in part neglecting and diverting away from the root core of this movement.
I respect the democratic ideals of OWS. But there is idealism that gets to work and then there is idealism for the sake of idealism that gets nowhere.
So what I am saying to 4TheHumanSocietyProject is: I think we agree basically. But my criticism is: WHY DON'T YOU SAY IT. That is to say, get together with other people, put together a forceful, cohesive, sincere statement that might do something constructive.
Instead, it seems to me, the prevailing attitude at OWS is that perpetual protest is an end in itself. Even to the extent of being instinctively opposed to achieving any sort of unified message with practical possibilities. Even the Original Post of this discussion seems primarily a cheerleading for OWS. While at the same time, inadvertently contradicting the basic "instant gratification" and "we shall overcome" attitude that prevails. This is interesting.
4TheHumanSocietyProject: I will continue to think about your statement and I hope that you will too. But the irony is, this movement is about the voiceless people speaking out--but the ideology has in effect made everyone within this movement a minority of one, to the point that everyone is made even more voiceless. And maybe if someone like Michael Moore would wake up, stop being so correct and polite, maybe something serious might get done. But I don't see this happening.
(Michael Moore is a lovable teddy bear which has given him an edge and made a difference. But like Howard Zinn, Moore is also the stereotypical career socialist. Decade after decade for 100 years always predicting 'the inevitable dictatorship of the proletariat' is just after the next stop light. You can expect clear-headed inspiration from such people--not.)
Thank you for that response. OWS is very beautiful in my opinion. It shows us that people do realize there is problems and if it slowly goes away the problems will not. They will only be silenced. However, I feel that the time has come for us as a human race to stop with the following and stagnating, to become the leaders we all can be. There will come a time in our future when the monetary system will probably fall. Whither it be because we stop being selfish and work toward idea that matter or it be that we become so efficient that there will be nothing left to bye because shit doesn't break. If in fact we do not continue on a path of unity and removing the values that restrict us we will most likely die on this planet. If you wouldn't mind checking out a man named Jacque Freso and his venus project. I enjoy watching him on youtube.
The death of OWS will come this year when shoe shine gets ejected from office. The libidiots will then go into a tail spin when their leader commando Odumbo is out