Forum Post: Honest question for intelligent people US intervention re Libya
Posted 12 years ago on Nov. 2, 2011, 11:20 a.m. EST by GeorgeMichaelBluth
(402)
from Arlington, VA
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Honestly, what's the vibe on the street about Libya and the US intervention that disposed its figurehead of 41 years? Good? Bad? I read the wiki page on him and I can find anything he did to his people that wasn't positive.
Was Gaddafi killed because he wanted to stop accepting US currency for Libyan oil or because he terrorised his people? If its the second one, why aren't the other dictators being hunted down?
I live in a country outside US, and all the news outlets here condemn US.
If you're looking for intelligence, it ain't here...
um.... we just wanted to get their oil, we'll make up any scary story that will work on the American public, they are actually quite easy to fool, been doing it for decades, lol --- the only problem is that Americans are now realizing they are the victims of their own oppressive capitalist system, lol cute
Hahaha geez isn't that the truth! shine on you crazy diamond!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/under-god/post/sharia-law-for-libya/2011/10/24/gIQATDrhCM_blog.html
"Mustafa Abdel Jalil, Libya’s interim leader, declared Sunday that post-Gaddafi Libya will be run as an Islamic state with legislation based on sharia law."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8861608/Libya-Al-Qaeda-flag-flown-above-Benghazi-courthouse.html
"Libya: Al Qaeda flag flown above Benghazi courthouse The black flag of Al Qaeda has been spotted flying over a public building in Libya, raising concerns that the country could lurch towards Muslim extremism."
I tracked down a reference for this at http://www.vice.com/read/al-qaeda-plants-its-flag-in-libya - note, however, that someone at the courthouse describes it as an "Islamic flag" not al Qaida's flag. I don't have the expertise to know whether the flag al Qaida flies is truly their particular flag or Islam's flag. I'd avoid jumping to the conclusion that this one flag on one courthouse is a statement of mass support for al Qaida among Libyans.
Also, I don't call it a "statement of mass support", but in unstable situations like a collapsing/collapsed government, those most adept at violence invariably seize power. And I do not believe that there is question regarding Al Queda (and affiliate organizations) willingness and skill in the use of violence to achieve an objective.
You are correct that this is a murky area, so I put some (not much) research into this...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_of_al-Qaeda.svg
Wikipedia has a decent article regarding Islamic flags: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_flags
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_flag_of_Jihad
Shouldn't we let the Libyan people decide how good/bad Gaddafi was? Hint, they did. I spent a lot of time talking to the people in Benghazi early on, and they were good people with solid democratic ideals. Gaddafi was a monster. All this revisionist stuff to make him look like a solid bastion against American imperialism is ridiculous. A psychotic dictator and megalomaniac. Did he want to run the whole continent, and therefore set himself alongside the revolutionary communists of the 70s in opposition to imperial western powers? Yes. I can't believe right wing conspiracy followers of Alex Jones see that as a positive.
Why not other dictators? Opportunity. France and Britain were ready to go, there was an imminent threat, and Gaddafi had no strong Arab support. Do you really think the same could be done in Syria without starting a regional, if not world war? That's the calculation that was made, for good or ill.
What exactly did he do?
Besides being a murderous totalitarian dictator who destroyed his own people's culture and ruled on a whim? Besides brutally repressing, imprisoning, or killing his opposition - and even putting million dollar bounties on those that fled into exile? Besides funding international terrorists? Oh whatever.
Start with these:
From 2004: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2004/mar/28/politics.libya
and 2009: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/sep/21/gaddafi-lockerbie-terrorism-international-law
Here, pictures: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2011/jul/18/libya-muammar-gaddafi
Sorry, got anything from a Libyan source, or from a country that didn't help dispose him?
A Libyan source in the free press under Gaddafi? LOL
Sorry let me rephrase, something that is credible? What have you got against G-unit?
sic semper tyrannis
http://www.icc-cpi.int/iccdocs/doc/doc1099314.pdf
Here's one you might find credible?
http://www.onislam.net/english/news/africa/453666-bad-boy-gaddafi-leaves-libya-in-shambles.html
Also:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Libya_under_Muammar_Gaddafi#Political_repression
Last words Lincoln ever heard too, ironically
They are already flying the Al-Qaeda flag over the courthouse in Benghazi. America's perception of foreigners is so skewed, because we only relate our own values to their behavior and beliefs. Our long standing foreign policy, which most experts will agree with, is that of achieving stability. What we have now done, by Obama's support of the Arab spring, and removing moderate dictators like Gaddafi and Mubarak, is to destabilize the region. The middle east is already a hotspot, why is it a good idea to poke a low fire with a stick over and over again? We will see the negative affects of this soon. Egypt is already turning hostile to Israel. And whether you support Israel or not, the stability in the region has been harmed in the last year, and as we can see fighting has increased. Our country thought the Camp David Accords was one of the greatest achievements. It was done to create stability and safety in the region. That has pretty much been torn down now. Why is that a good thing?
Well because of the US base in Saudi, nearly 4,000 innocent people died in 9/11. I think you will see blowback on a scale never before seen. Why do we give people a reason to hate us?
You are mixing apples and oranges to my comment. I didn't say anything about our policies instigating hatred toward America. I agree that that happens. We are far too nosey in other people's business at times. But since the question dealt with the Libya issue, that's what was addressed.
Your post was good, but do you think the USA and France had a right to oust another sovereign nations leader? Without authority from congress or any justification?
We chose a side in a civil war. Whether we were correct in doing so remains debatable but we did what the French did for our revolution. We didn't really "oust" a leader, we backed a rebellion.
Potato potarto? The French owned the whole bottom part of the USA...... Why should the USA backed an attack on government? If ows turned militant, should the UK etc back ows over the current system? Good point by the way
Ben Franklin went to France to ask for their help. Who from Libya asked for our help?
You think we only merely backed a rebellion and took no active part in instigating it? What about meeting covertly with rebel leaders in the beginning and promising them that they would receive military support? Its not like we went in after they started, we kind of gave them a favorable nudge in the right direction. We picked sides to start, and that was none of our business.
The us prop up governments they like, while it suits their purposes, then commend the over throwers when they are done disposing the rulers. It would be naive to think the CIA didn't help the rebels, and it was an American missile that stopped gaddafi as he tried to get away
You might be right. I didn't say it was the correct thing to do. Hell, it would have been refreshing to have Nato decide they could do something without needing us to provide support, but of course that doesn't happen.
Nope. I don't look to the UN as a viable authoritative body either.
Me either, I think it should be called the united nothing. Headed by bono and Kim kardashian