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Forum Post: Here's why we will WIN

Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 27, 2011, 7:11 a.m. EST by therising (6643)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

The 1% ordered the police to come into the park full of peaceful protesters with violence because they want the protesters to become violent. It didn't work. We know that American people will be turned off by violence and we know that this is a clear battle for the hearts and minds of the American public. The 1% are slowly losing their grip on these hearts and minds and the movement is winning hearts an minds. You will see the 1% try like heck now to get the 99% to get violent. But we won't go for it. We won't take the bait.

We're in this to win it non-violently. We won't take the bait.

Bongo Jerry, Rastafarian poet, explains why we will prevail:

"Sooner or later but mus' the dam going to bus' And every person will break out Who will stop them? The force? What force can stop a river of people who know their course?"

Martin Luther King, Jr. uttered these famous lines: "No lie can live forever." "Truth crushed to earth rises up." "The moral arc of the universe bends towards justice."

He also, in his "Letter from the Birmingham Jail" said he was more disturbed by the "appalling silence of the good people" than the actions of those who opposed the movement directly. Remember, King went to jail and so did his supporters. A lot.

Here is a taste of King's outlook:

Proven tactics that work!!!

"Nonviolent direct action seeks to create such a crisis and foster such a tension that a community which has constantly refused to negotiate is forced to confront the issue. It seeks to so dramatize the issue that it can no longer be ignored. My citing the creation of tension as part of the work of the nonviolent-resister may sound rather shocking. But I must confess that I am not afraid of the word "tension." I have earnestly opposed violent tension, but there is a type of constructive, nonviolent tension which is necessary for growth. Just as Socrates felt that it was necessary to create a tension in the mind so that individuals could rise from the bondage of myths and half-truths to the unfettered realm of creative analysis and objective appraisal, we must we see the need for nonviolent gadflies to create the kind of tension in society that will help men rise from the dark depths of prejudice and racism to the majestic heights of understanding and brotherhood.

The purpose of our direct-action program is to create a situation so crisis-packed that it will inevitably open the door to negotiation. I therefore concur with you in your call for negotiation."

Here's the entire "Letter from the Birmingham Jail": http://abacus.bates.edu/admin/offices/dos/mlk/letter.html

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59 Comments


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[-] 4 points by therising (6643) 13 years ago

Can you feel it? The movement is picking up momentum....

[-] 1 points by ChristopherABrown (550) from Santa Barbara, CA 13 years ago

therising wrote: "The 1% ordered the police to come into the park full of peaceful protesters with violence because they want the protesters to become violent. It didn't work. We know that American people will be turned off by violence and we know that this is a clear battle for the hearts and minds of the American public. The 1% are slowly losing their grip on these hearts and minds and the movement is winning hearts an minds."END---

That is all correct, but lacking definition or distinction between "hearts and minds". What you say about "momentum" is also true. My point is that the public is with the movement at heart, BUT I know the minds are not engaged with any substance except complaint. Many others are pointing out the dynamics of this right now.-------

Unity upon solution under law is vital. There is a reasonable process for law enforcement by citizens. 1) Cite a problem that is unconstituional, or reasonably can be shown to lead to unconstittuionality. 2)Cite a law that equitabley and constituionally addresses the problem. 3)Identify a position or part of government that has the defined duty of upholding the cited law. 4)Provide public notice of 1), 2), 3) to the appropriate officials.------

By contract law and that of the constitution, 45 days later, citizens have the DUTY to protest!

Fulfilling that DUTY supports and defends the constitution. If in defense, any who oppose you without lawfully cited reason, can rationally be regarded as traitors or in support of usurpation of the constitution.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 13 years ago

OK, let's roll!

[-] 1 points by ChristopherABrown (550) from Santa Barbara, CA 12 years ago

Occupy Congress with this list as notification that the 99% considers them in violation of the constitution and their oaths. Here is the list of laws congress is violating.

Federal law regulating oath of office by government officials is divided into four parts along with an executive order which further defines the law for purposes of enforcement. 5 U.S.C. 3331, provides the text of the actual oath of office congressional members were required to take before assuming office.

5 U.S.C. 3333 required you to sign an affidavit that you took the oath of office required by 5 U.S.C. 3331 and have not nor will violate that oath during your tenure of office as defined by the third part of the law,

5 U.S.C. 7311, which explicitly makes it a federal criminal offense for anyone employed in the United States Government to “advocate the overthrow of our constitutional form of government.”,

18 U.S.C. 1918 provides penalties for violation of oath office described in 5 U.S.C. 7311 which include: removal from office, imprisonment, and a fine.

The definition of “advocate” is further specified in Executive Order 10450 which for purposes of enforcement supplements 5 U.S.C. 7311.

Executive Order 10450 specifies a violation of 5 U.S.C. 7311 for any person taking the oath of office to advocate “the alteration…of the form of the government of the United States by unconstitutional means"

According to Executive Order 10450 (and therefore 5 U.S. 7311) any act taken by government officials who have taken the oath of office prescribed by 5 U.S.C. 3331 which alters the form of government other than by amendment, is a criminal violation of the 5 U.S.C. 7311. Such alteration without amendment is criminal violation of 5 U.S.C. 7311 and 18 U.S.C. 1918.


In 1939 the supreme court violated Executive Order 10450 specifiing a violation of 5 U.S.C. 7311

http://www.foa5c.org/file.php/1/Articles/Coleman.htm

Acts relating to campaign finance are also unconstitutional and comprise “the alteration…of the form of the government of the United States by unconstitutional means"

Integrate those into a formal petititon with signers stating which congressperson is their representive.

Protestors show the above list to law enforcement at the site of protest. Explain all of the current problems are caused by the congressional violations of law and that the protest IS in the direct defense of the constitution.

How many cops are going to abuse citizens peacebly assembled in redress of specific grievance of violations of laws? Specifically congresses failure to call and article 5 convention while allowing media to abridge free speech. It has enabled treason.

[Removed]

[-] 1 points by stanklem28 (81) 13 years ago

First it was the color of people's skin.

Now it's the amount of money worth per head.

Change....must....come

We Must stand up against segregation!

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 13 years ago

Viva la resistance.

[-] 1 points by melbel61 (113) 13 years ago

Non-violence is the key to not getting thrown in jail, and not having the masses turn on you, but after almost 6 weeks protesting, other than it appearing on the nightly news and in newspapers, what exactly do you think you will win? I'm just curious. I've come on this site a lot and I understand the frustration of many of you, but without working within the system (political that is), the politicians will watch the polls only. By Thanksgiving, Christmas, etc., people will not be listening to you, sorry, but people's attention span in this country is not too long....

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 13 years ago

I met directly with a Confressman earlier this week for several hours regarding an unrelated matter. During the conversation he referred to Occupy Wall Street 4 different times and said he and his colleagues were very concerned that the movement would soon double in size and that people would soon be pounding on the doors of Capitol Hill. He and his colleagues are right to be afraid of our upcoming non-violent actions. Stay tuned. Nonviolence is very powerful. We the. 99% are discovering that we have more things in common than we have separating us. Our unity is the 1% worst nightmare. Soon we'll be making decisions from a position of unified power rather than demands from a position of divided weakness.

[-] 0 points by ChristopherABrownART5 (46) from Santa Barbara, CA 13 years ago

melbel61 wrote: Non-violence is the key to not getting thrown in jail-END-----

That helps. Having the upperhand legally is the best, then your protest has real teeth. Authority must be notified of a problem and a law invokingtheir duty to uphold the law. After 45 days, depending on the potential damages, deprival of right etc. Demand and protest are absolutly legal in order to get government to perform.------

Potential conference on the web tonight, and tomorrow. Peaceful Rebellion under law.

http://www.articlevmeeting.info/

[-] 1 points by Howtodoit (1232) 13 years ago

riight on!

[-] 1 points by pissedoffconstructionworker (602) 13 years ago

You quote this Bongo Jerry fellow so assiduously, therising, that I'm starting to think that you might be him, incognito as it were<-----just breaking balls, love your stuff.

We're definitely going to win. The conservative message machine is already switching memes in midstream...from "ignore the hippies" to "dirty violent protestors are a threat to good order" to the current meme: "ok, these kids have a point, but they're protesting the wrong thing! goverment ate business, not the other way 'round!".

As we hunker down for Valley Forge Winter 2012, let our hearts be warmed with faith in our cause.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 13 years ago

Nonviolence will nourish us and bring the true colors of the 1% out into the open. Powerful stuff.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 13 years ago

We have such an opportunity to change the paradigm.

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 13 years ago

I have been active here since the very beginning, and since the very beginning I have been trying to make some core points. These points clearly have not been digested or fully understood by the mob, and so I'm going to try to make a further attempt here again.

  1. Merely protesting in the streets will not bring change. In fact merely protesting in the streets is in fact a means to the end of avoiding the real work of a revolution, which consists of the evolutionary solutions, answers, problem solving process, and new political alignment we create.
  2. This forum is absolutely disorganized. It won't be read by most people and it won't and can't function as a core organizational system.
  3. Back at the very start of this, I petitioned the admin to add multiple sub forums and a wiki. Multiple sub forums were promised but have never arrived. I think that this tells us that the intention actually of this forum is message control and containment. The entire purpose really of this forum has always been to keep us spinning in disorganization. We are hanging out on a forum that expressly exists to actually keep us confused and disorganized.
  4. The real work of a revolution isn't going to happen on forums, it needs to happen in a much more organized fashion using collaborative software.
  5. The assorted other details about how to collaborate, how to work open source direct democracy, how to focus in on science instead of isms, how to become hyper rational about this, are details which are essential and crucial, without which we can predict the movement to fail.
  6. Technically speaking we are not 99 percent, we are one tenth of one percent attempting to represent the 99 percent. Our core mission must be to communicate to and with the 99 percent, and get them to join us. This forum will not accomplish that and neither will any of the other main websites.
  7. You can follow other people out to other wikis and other websites, where they will try to get you to get involved with what they want and their program, but frankly speaking, there is no other website and no other operation out there which understands the complexities involved with meaningful organization. In short, everyones being led to get involved here there and everywhere else, scattering the movement in directions which ultimately do not gain us critical mass, criticial momentum, or critical systemic lucidity.
  8. I have managed to get a wiki put up and have already put on that wiki evolutionary details which make it more organized than anything else. I can't do this alone. There are 10 or so wikis now out there, most of which were created in response to my pleas for a wiki, and several of which are in domains owned and operated by some corporation, (wikia, etc) And which we can thus assume will simply be closed, shut down, or deleted if they become useful to the movement.
  9. Probably at least half of the invites you have to go participate at some other site are people who are scamming everyone to waste time and energy, distort the movement, co opt it, and etc. When you walk off into a closet ask yourself how you know that the closet isn't created by some fed, or by some republican, or by some democrat, in order to sway things in their direction.
  10. The only meaningful strategic option we have for real change in this country is to create a new third party, and take every political office in this country.
  11. Once that is done, we can have an article 5 convention. If we have an article 5 convention before getting rid of the oligachs, that just opens the genie from the bottle for them to abuse that process with their corruption and evil.
  12. As of last night and this morning, you can't even answer responses on this site without geting a 403 error, logging in requries you to back click after a 403 error, and the chat simply doesn't load.

For these reasons, I beg of you to please immediately join me on the wiki. We need to have all of these details and all of these ideas put together in an organized fashion, rather than posted in a long scrawl which will never be read.

http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/THE_99%25_POLITICAL_PARTY

http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/Main_Page

http://www.followthemoney.org/?gclid=CMbY87bB-qsCFUPt7Qod9HE8mQ

http://maplight.org/us-congress/guide/data/money?9gtype=search&9gkw=list%20of%20campaign%20donations&9gad=6213192521.1&9gag=1786513361&gclid=CP61oYbB-qsCFQFZ7AodcTF0jw

http://www.opensecrets.org/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/our-new-wiki/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/non-violence-evolution-by-paradigm-shift/

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 13 years ago

why not just use wiki already available ?

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 13 years ago

which one? because i have an understanding in depth of evolutionar yorder via systems theory and sociology and etc. I know how to organize the wiki.

because i can't TRUST anywhere else.

Etc.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 13 years ago

wiki is based on the idea of hyper text link up mark up language

err....

the reason that wiki is a good encyclopedia is people as a rule tell the truth.

truth is useful. so while some will lie in a wiki article

others in far greater number correct that mistake

the general community which wiki is open to

understand that tell the truth is more useful

when building an encyclopedia

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 13 years ago

sounds good in theory. when you read wikipedia and have expert knowledge, you come across lie after lie after lie. if you try to correct these lies you find trolls embedded in the hierarchy at the top levels who will even ban you in the end, after all of the other dirty tactics are employed.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 13 years ago

I don't come across lie after lie after lie

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 13 years ago

then you don't have enough knowledge to know any better.

i read 3000 textbooks between the ages of 9 and 18. I do have the knowledge base to pick out falsehoods, and not just in wikipedia- i can chew apart almost any encyclopedia.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 13 years ago

do you correct falsehoods in wiki when found ?

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 13 years ago

i would certainly try.

eventually, there will be too much to get to as one person... but i would certainly make the effort, obviously. on wikipedia? no. i tried to do that and thats how i know wikipedia is evil. I tried to help them- they inverse trolled me as a reward.

it is standard operating procedure to crucify experts at wikipedia. people who actually know what they are talking about are the enemies of the trolls in charge.

thats the point.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 13 years ago

I've made a few corrections on wiki

I had to correct it twice in one case

still the nest encyclopedia on the net

[-] 0 points by ChristopherABrownART5 (46) from Santa Barbara, CA 13 years ago

Generally yes, but this I've proven not to be by trying to reasonably interact with wikipedia.-----

"is people as a rule tell the truth. truth is useful. so while some will lie in a wiki article others in far greater number correct that mistake the general community which wiki is open to understand"

Here is the proof of that effort. Very important, 9-11 issue.-----

http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11title_18.disclosure.html

You will see I stop short of claiming I provide disclosure of evidence of the concealment of treason under USC, chp.115, §2382 by identifying wikipedia in the IN RE: filing. But I do identify the role problem they have in the district court filing. There is a certified return receipt for the mailing to wales. They have no correct their site, they have not communicated, the editors involved ARE concealing treason and are completely unaccountable. From the February 2010 filing in L.A. California.---

"Included is a letter to Jimmy Wales, founder of Wikipedia whose editors refuse to utilize evidence or recognize the violation of laws that show a need to use evidence in editing of the structural page of their “World trade Center” series."

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 13 years ago

wiki often sites other sources by link

[-] 0 points by ChristopherABrownART5 (46) from Santa Barbara, CA 13 years ago

Yep, but in this case they conceal treason by not applying proper discretion.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 13 years ago

I don't think the government should have secretes

[-] 1 points by jph (2652) 13 years ago

too many words,.(concise brevity works much better) you do make some good points, but then you miss the main point of the movement., the political system is broken! Voting will not change this,. the 3rd party approach, unless that party is a single issue party, dedicated to removing elected representatives from the system is a wast of time,. . there are many forums for serious political debate. ideas can come from ANY of them and be spread far and wide from there.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 13 years ago

noted

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 13 years ago

the third party approach is not a waste of time it is the only chance. Marketing 101 and systems and game theory al lsay that how to make it work is to cover every last issue at a new evolutionary depth. You are speaking zombot programmed nonsense, detached from the truth or reality, as if it is somehow a self evident truth.

Its good to form a wide network from which to take good ideas.

In fact the diplomatic process is to review all the paradigms and take the good ideas and flush the bad ones in each.

"too many words" sorry but between this and your third party won't work and your one issue only line you are just repeating the memes on this topic the oligarchy programs everyone with. if you fight for dumble down you are on the side of stupid.

[-] 1 points by jph (2652) 13 years ago

I am not fighting for dumbed down,. I am saying self edit your posts. If you can not be concise perhaps you need to refine your idea.

If voting could change anything it would be illegal. You are proposing we participate in a rigged game,. how do you expect to win in a rigged election?

"your one issue only line you are just repeating the memes on this topic the oligarchy programs everyone with. " What? I said nothing about 'one issue' I said a third party is not the way to go,. I got that as your 'one issue',. point 10 in your long post.

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 13 years ago

i am being concise. my ideas are fine and refined. Ultimately while voting is rigged, they can't meaningfully rig an election in which 75 percent of the population votes for something. In fact obamas win more or less shows us, a 60 percent majority will be peeled down to seem to be less, but they can't rig more than about 10 percent without it being transparent. While many of us know that the voting system is rigged, most people don't and consider that paranoid delusional. if 99 percent of us awake and vote together they won't really have any options other than to either go with it or confess that they are just going to deny the popular vote.

A third party IS the way to go.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 13 years ago

Stand firm with non-violent tactics. This is the key.

[-] 1 points by CarryTheGripsUpToTheAttic (133) 13 years ago

Get the police in your community to leak docs or info about these illegal crackdowns!

Follow the police. CONSTANTLY, but respectfully ask them to help us.

It's not illegal to talk to them!

[-] 1 points by JackPulliam3rd (205) 13 years ago

and the mass paper airplane throwing event should rock the 1%, just like it did in Selma in "65

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 13 years ago

What would it take or the 99% to all unify? Just imagine....

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 13 years ago

I am so proud of the people who are involved in this movement for remaining nonviolent.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 13 years ago

If we use the force of nonviolent resistance, we will win.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 13 years ago

Every time they arrest one of us, 2 more will replace us in the street. The harder they push back, the bigger we get.