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Forum Post: Healthcare Cost Calcultor

Posted 11 months ago on Aug. 28, 2013, 9:27 p.m. EST by TropicalDepression (-45)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Hey, if you are making $12.50, and so is your wife, and you have a kid, who COULDN'T afford to pay an extra $80 a week for some shit care?

I mean, fuck em right? Fuck the poor is pretty much what this says.

Obama himself said the insurance companies have no problem with mandated. Really? How shocking.

So now if you cant afford it, you just get taxed at the end of the year.

How cool is that? Too poor to afford $80 a week? Well, fuck you, we are taking MORE money out of your tax return.

This law is an absolute disgrace to anyone who claims to be about healthcare for all. A total and absolute disgrace.

No misinformation here. Do the calculations yourself:

http://laborcenter.berkeley.edu/healthpolicy/calculator/index.shtml

60 Comments

60 Comments


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[-] 1 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 11 months ago

Kaiser Calculator:

Single parent, 2 kids. Healthcare costs 7k a year. "Could" get a tax credit of 5k.

Wonderful, a single parent with two kids now gets automatically stuck with that bill and hopefully gets a 5k credit on the tax return.

What a fuckin mess.

http://kff.org/interactive/subsidy-calculator/#income-type=dollars&income=30%2C000&employer-coverage=0&people=2&adult-count=1&adults%5B0%5D%5Bage%5D=21&adults%5B0%5D%5Btobacco%5D=0&child-count=2&child-tobacco=0

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 11 months ago

Sources, like motives........matter.

One must often ask questions. I was trained to do so, in my teens.

Others, don't ask them, nor do they answer them.

Oh........I'm talkin' at ya hchc.

Who funded this "calculator"?

The California Endowment.

Gosh 'a' rooties, but they sound important and on the level

But are they??

Nope.

they're not.

Ever heard the word astroturf??

Welcome to the word according to WellPoint.

Welcome to what is probably a branch the Koch network of lies.

http://www.nprcenter.org/supporter/california-endowment

Keep your calculator.

[-] 1 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 11 months ago

WellPoint helped write the bill shooz.

So did BCBS.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 11 months ago

Libe(R)tarians the lot. I've been trying to tell you.

It was the ONLY compromise the libe(R)tarians were willing to make at this point in time.

The question you should be asking, is what is it one way or another to the Koch's?

We know they're doing it. They've admitted to 10s of millions, and probably more through their various "charities".

Why?

PS, it's still their stupid calculator.

[-] 2 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 11 months ago

Fascists. I dont hear anyone at Occupy events screaming libertarians at the cops, would be strange because they are some of the ones going to jail to protect things you benefit from, like your pension.

The two of you and your obsession with libertarians is something I just dont understand. Honestly, you didnt really get involved so I dont expect you to understand too well, but I do wish you would listen to some that did for at least a second.

I dont agree with the libertarian platform on some things. But the people in charge are clearly not on a libertarian platform. More rules for everyone, year after year. You simply cannot deny that.

Now if you have created your own meaning for libertarians, thats another thing. But again, if you are going to jail with one, both in the name of addressing the corruption in this country, would that person not be your brother? I certainly hope so. But then again, occupy was different in that regards, part of the reason it was so awesome, and part of the reaosn it was so hard to get agreement on the more specific things.

Corporatism relies on strong regulation strangulation and a nanny state to succeed, with zero regulations at the top. At least thats what some at occupy agrees upon.

In effect are you saying that Obama and Biden are libertarians? Because that would be a first that Ive heard as well.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 11 months ago

The Koch's founded the party.

The Koch's and their corporate "friends" have been spreading it World Wide.

Any way they can.

This is the doing of libe(R)tarians.

"Nanny state"??

Really???

See?

You even use their propaganda.

that's how pervasive they've become.

Obama and Biden?

For all I know? Maybe they are.

But I damn sure know that all these (R)epelican't governors out there pushing the teabagge(R) line sure as hell ARE.

As are the aims of ALEC and SPN.

Yes these are libe(R)tarians. Just not the ones they told you about.

Now will you ask the question I asked? It was an important one.

Or will shirk it off ...........again.

[-] 1 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 11 months ago

"Obama and Biden? For all I know? Maybe they are."

Wow, if you cant see that now, then you never will be able to.

You call them libertarians. I call them fascists. But I call them ALL fascists, because clearly they all are. You just cant quite get that spirit of revolution going, can ya? Thats not an insult, thats an observation.

Like I said, I've never heard protesters calling the cops libertarians. Its a bit odd. And Ive certainly never heard anyone refering to the corporatists/fascists as libertarians, except for you.

Maybe everyone in occupy is wrong and you're right?

"Nanny state" is Noam Chomsky's words, not mine. Stop trying to link me to the fascists.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 11 months ago

still shirking??

Yes.....you are.

You never addressed the question....as usual.

Still attempting insult....yes you are.......even using Mr. Munny's lame excuse.

Lame indeed.

Yes you used the nanny state, Limbaugh line, in the way that Limbaugh uses it.

So please, don't play the Chomsky game. .

Because that's another link I gave you multiple timers and out of FEAR you refused to follow it, because Chomsky described the libe(R)tarians I've been telling you about to a T.

Now, will you be honestly answering any of the questions honestly asked of you?

The only thing I'm linking you to, is FEAR, ignorance and a love of following the in crowd.

You are an admitted member of the soap opera of the banned.

Here's some more facts about what's happening all around you to ignore.

It is after all, your MO.

http://www.peer.org/news/news-releases/2013/08/29/florida-pollution-enforcement-in-paralysis/

If you won't lift a finger to so much as describe what's happening in your own community.

How in the World do you plan to fix anything else?

Or even believe you have a handle on it?

Think global, act local.

[-] 0 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 11 months ago

I did use, as did Noam. I guess you cant think outside of a two sided view?

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 11 months ago

You used it to avoid answering the question.

Just as you did again in this response.

And really?

Another attempt at insult??

It's you who's following the in crowd of the soap opera of the banned....You admitted it.

Yep.

Another attempt to avoid addressing the lions share of what I said?

yep

shirking....plain and simple.

Just like you demonstrated your FEAR of following links.

[-] 1 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 11 months ago

You arent the grand inquisitor.

Points = Power?

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 11 months ago

You're correct. I'm not.

You on the other hand ARE the grand shirker, and more than a bit dishonest. It's not like I haven't tried to answer at least some of your questions.

I can only surmise that you have a FEAR of answering mine.

It's you who like to shirk and insult, instead of even acknowledging a question was even asked.

That's dishonest.

The question asked wasn't that difficult, and it wasn't personal, by any stretch.

But you play as though it was?

Points=power.........is all in your mind.

Just like the bullshit from trashy, and it doesn't give you an excuse to play gangland crap.

[-] 0 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 11 months ago

Why do I have a feeling you have lived a very feared life.

Someone your age wouldnt be so bitter if they stood up to things once in a while. Stop projecting your failed life on me, ok?

If you want to have an insult war and do character attacks then lets have at it.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 11 months ago

"Why do I have a feeling you have lived a very feared life. "

Because you don't really feel much and you like to lie about others as a form of insult.

In my life and times, I've stood up to the establishment for myself and others, enumerable times.

I've even told you about a few of them, so you know what?

I reject this insult from you too.

Because I've actually tried to be honest with you, in hopes that you would be honest with me.

This comment is yet one more lie you've told about me.

One more insult among many.

I have failed in getting even an once of honestly from you.

Have fun with your hate filled gang of buddies, and all of you can know in your hearts, that like trashy, you've made this forum pay a heavy price for your lies and hate.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (27725) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 months ago

[-] 8675309 points by DKAtoday (8675309) from Coon Rapids, MN

replying here.

[-] 1 points by shooz (21614) 1 minute ago

FEAR of honesty, works for me.

After all, why else be "fake false imposter"?

Isn't a goofy username enough?.........LOL

↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

They would be false fake imposter - to try and Fool.

Most honest one yet ( user name ) = Depression.

I still think that - False Fake Imposter - are still a lot more accurate - but - go with what you like.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 11 months ago

Or.....pre-hurricane of dishonesty.

Hey...whatever works............................LOL

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 11 months ago

the gang is disbanded move away, died and quit

my love says apply and maybe consider going to washigton

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 11 months ago

I can't believe that.

No apology was given.

No admission was made.

No names were admitted.

So I'll have to wait and see if TD, their self appointed spokesmodel apparent, will suffer a bout of honesty.

I have my doubts.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (27725) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 months ago

[-] 8675309 points by DKAtoday (8675309) from Coon Rapids, MN

I don't think it is fear - nope not so much - no I think it is more along the lines of = Fake False Imposter .......................

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 11 months ago

FEAR of honesty, works for me.

After all, why else be "fake false imposter"?

Isn't a goofy username enough?.........LOL

[-] 0 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 11 months ago

Attack on VQ? The real estate guy who called Flip a sucker for having to work?

That guy? Or the other monikers?

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 11 months ago

That's an excuse, eh?

I call bullshit..

You never once complained about trashy's bots and puppets.....Not once.

And they are legend.

so get off it.

You and your gang attacked him for one reason and one reason only, and you I both know what that reason is, don't we?

so why do you beat around the bush?

why be dishonest?

Why don't you admit to who is attacking DK?

Why be so motherfucking dishonest?

You likely know them all by nameplate too.

so out with it.

A little pure truth.

A little honesty is good for the soul.

[-] -1 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 11 months ago

"You and your gang attacked him for one reason and one reason only, and you I both know what that reason is, don't we?"

And what is that oh great one?

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 11 months ago

Aww, isn't that cute? You're going to play coy and avoid everything else.

Yes, dishonesty has become as much a part of you as your FEAR.

So about that old gang of yours?

Who are they.

Who do they attack and why?

Honesty is good for the soul.

[-] -1 points by gnomunny (6647) from St Louis, MO 11 months ago

Hmmm, I see you got no straight answer. What a surprise, eh? Now it was an "organized gang attack" on VQ? My god, the cadre of clowns gets more angry and delusion by the week, don't they? Next thing you know, they'll be calling Odin a "Republican." ;-)

[-] -2 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 11 months ago

And once again, the way you march around here demanding people answer your questions, whining when no one then comments on your links, etc etc etc....

"That's what I'm asking."

Why on earth would anyone under any circumstance accept you as a form of authority? Do you not even see it?

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 11 months ago

Excuse me??

What?

March around?? You gotta be kidding me.

I just ask you to honestly answer,. honest questions.

You cry incessantly over so much as being asked.

Let's talk about gang style activity, huh?.

I was not a party to the concerted, organized attack on VQ.

You and your cadre of PM buddies were.

How many are you?

Who else did you gang up on and attack?

You and all of your gang need to asked all these questions and more.

It's dishonest behavior to a fault.

and it chased many people away.

Though like trashy, I'm sure you will never admit it, anymore that you will follow the money in N. Carolina. Even after you made the statement about how important following the money is.

You failed out of FEAR.

[-] -2 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 11 months ago

I tell you the stuff I do, you just dont believe me. Not too much I can do about that besides like I said put your name on a sign and post it here or something.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 11 months ago

Follow the money in N. Carolina.

Cash the check you wrote.

That's what I'm asking.

That's what you refuse to do.

So you make you stuff about my life, as means of insult, instead.

I'd ask you why, but you are averse to questions of any sort.

You just follow the gang, wherever they lead you.

[-] 0 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 11 months ago

"The only thing I'm linking you to, is FEAR, ignorance and a love of following the in crowd."

Says the hardcore Dem that wont lump the current criminals in with the previous ones.

Lame.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 11 months ago

So, that means you will finally fill the cash the check on YOU following the money.

In N. Carolina.

I'm sorry I gave you such a difficult challenge, but by the tenor of you last post, you must have finally followed it, or you wouldn't have been so adamant about your new found lack of FEAR.

I'll hold my breath.........................:)

While you finally cash the check.

[-] -1 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 11 months ago

Fear is all I have? Thats grand. Keep em coming.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 11 months ago

Then why don't you follow the money?

FEAR.

Why do have SO many issues answering questions??

FEAR.

Why do resort to insults?

FEAR.

Yep

FEAR is all you have. So stop wallowing in it.

It's unbecoming.

[-] -1 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 11 months ago

"I'm sorry I gave you "

You dont own the place. Get over yourself.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 11 months ago

Aww, I sorry you're afraid to follow the money.

Are you going to sic the soap opera of the banned on me?

It's you who needs to get over himself.

If you're going to write the check?

Cash it, or don't write it in the first place.

If you're going insult and name call, don't bitch about somebody else doing it.

If you don't want to answer questions?

Don't post in a public forum.

FEAR is all you have, but don't wallow in it.

It's unbecoming.

[-] -2 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 11 months ago

oh wow....

Have a nice night shooz.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 11 months ago

FEAR. You shouldn't like it so much.

So c'mon.

Why the FEAR of following the money in N. Carolina?

What are you afraid of?

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by JPB950 (2254) 11 months ago

Insurance only works if many pay in and few actually use the service. What we need is government run health care not insurance. We just have to realize that health care isn't free, someone, somewhere has to pay for it. If it's government paying that means higher taxes. Until we can get government to write a better law and tax more effectively and fairly we're stuck with the ACA.

If you and your spouse are working full time at $12.50 each that's about $50,000 a year. Using that and your link I got something close to your $80 a week figure for insurance. The 1% tax penalty for not buying insurance would be around $233 a year after deductions reduce your taxable income. That comes to less then $5 a week. Make a decision, pay the premiums of around $80 or the penalty of around $5. The penalty tops out at 2.5% so in three years you'll pay maybe $13 a week for the tax.

Problem there is that if people don't participate and find that $80 a week to pay, the premiums only goes up when fewer healthy people enter the insurance pool.

[-] 1 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 11 months ago

Of we could demand an end to the war machine and the bailouts and get it with no tax increases.

The $80 a week just isnt there. No amount of searching is going to find it.

[-] 0 points by JPB950 (2254) 11 months ago

Sure there are a lot of ways to go for this nation to handle health care, but they all need public support. It's been a major problem getting the public to just pay attention to the issue, maybe that $80 a month that people can't find will be a catalyst and get some action started.

There are a lot of choices, but not all of them fair or good. You have the choice of going without insurance and paying the much smaller penalty. You might consider the less expensive Bronze plan, the premium there is half that of the Silver plan. I'm not clear on if you'd qualify for the same subsidy or not, but either way it would reduce your expense.

I don't know if the example you gave is hypothetical or personal, but either way I'd ask if the family had things they could cut, cable TV for example. I've always been healthy so I've decided I'm going to go with whatever is cheaper, Bronze plan or tax penalty.

[-] -2 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 11 months ago

Its not half, and the copay goes from 40% to 60% of the total.

Its a shit plan regardless. They can take their Romney care and shove it.

[-] -1 points by JPB950 (2254) 11 months ago

Yes the amount you have to pay for services you use jumps from 30% under the silver plan to 40% under the bronze. The premium would be covered completely by the subsidy though. That means you get 60% coverage with no cost for the premium. This never was a health care law it is an insurance law, that's why the insurance companies went along with it. Another problem here is that this calculator you linked to is only giving us an educated guess, you may go to an exchange in your State and find out the estimates are over or under what the calculator says.

I agree the ACA may not be a very good plan but it is likely to be said it is better then nothing. That points out something I don't think Occupy has ever fully appreciated. The 99% is not one group it's several divided along income lines. The government is very good at giving just enough to just the right number people to keep the 99% split into opposing factions. They seem to direct their anger at other income groups or the opposition party rather then at the system as a whole. I don't think there will ever be any kind of revolution.

[-] -1 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 11 months ago

" They seem to direct their anger at other income groups or the opposition party rather then at the system as a whole."

Truth.

[-] 0 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 11 months ago

I person, making 35k a year. They get a silver plan for over 3k a year (3,018)!!

Amount of government subsidy a year? 000000!!!!!

250 Dollars a Fuckin Month?!!!! For someone that is finally starting to get ahead...

And you are splitting the costs with the government until you've spend 6k.

So after youve made your payment plans with the hospital on that 6k- if something happens to you- then you are now past 300/mo in healthcare costs.

This is going to bankrupt anyone who tries it.

No one can afford this insurance.

[-] 1 points by MsStacy (1035) 11 months ago

There is hope. I see people looking at the numbers like you are and deciding that the tax is cheaper. IF fewer healthy people sign on then premiums must go up. Fewer will be able to afford insurance, drop out and the cycle will continue until people finally wake up and force the issue and we get government health care, not government shilling for insurance companies.

[-] 0 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 11 months ago

Holy shit if you smoke your premium as a single parent with two kids goes to 3300 a year!! Holy fuck.

And of course, you are still sharing the costs at a 60:40 ratio until it reaches 4500 on the year. No biggie, only more than most Americans have saved TOTAL.

What a fuckin country. Too bad more so-called liberals dont wake up to this garbage.

[-] 0 points by JPB950 (2254) 11 months ago

I approve of the penalty for smokers. They have more health problems and cost the rest of us more. Besides if you can find the money every day to buy a pack of cigarettes then you can find it to pay for your insurance.

The true liberals are awake, they just can't convince the half of the country that is conservative that we need government run health care, not insurance. That's why we have such a mess of a law as the ACA. This issue is the result of us, as a nation, not able to agree.

[-] 1 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 11 months ago

Wow, so now we are mandating they pay more for something because of personal choices?

I dont smoke, but wtf?

Plenty of people smoke their whole lives with no health effects. Plenty dont with many more health problems. Its not a good decision, obviously, but this is just insane.

[-] 0 points by JPB950 (2254) 11 months ago

It's a personal choice that has a direct effect on health care costs. Insurance doesn't consider individuals, it considers populations. We know smoking leads to health problems in general. That is settled science even for the tobacco companies. Smokers cost more and have more medical problems in general. Many companies are making an effort to not hire smokers and weed out current employees that do smoke. Besides you said it yourself, it's a "personal choice", anyone can give up cigarettes and pay the lower premium.

I'm in favor of a government run healthcare system. There is a price to pay however, you have to expect the government to demand some say in habits that effect costs. Along this same line, I read an article a year or two ago about a couple moving to Australia. The husband had a skill needed and they were given permission to emigrate,but only if they lost weight. Because obese people are at greater risk of diabetes and blood pressure problems the Australian government doesn't want to risk the medical costs associated with a high BMI. The more you ask society to do for you the more say it will demand in your life.

[-] 0 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 11 months ago

What leads to more health problems? Smoking or eating garbage and not exercising?

[-] 0 points by JPB950 (2254) 11 months ago

You mean which of the two is worse? A quick google of "comparing health risks of obesity to smoking" gave me a pretty uniform picture of medical opinion. The range of health problems for either of them though is extensive and there is some overlap.

Obesity seems to be worse, in terms of expense. One article stated that a smoker has average health costs $1275 higher per year then a non smoker. An obese individual is $1850 higher per year then a person of normal weight and one who is morbidly obese is as much as $5500 more.

[-] -1 points by MsStacy (1035) 11 months ago

That doesn't go far enough. Anyone that engages in an unhealthy habit should be required to pay more. Heavy drinkers and especially the obese, considering the risks associated with diabetes. If you are likely to use more health care services because if something you choose to do, then you should pay more.

In your example, a smoker with a child, that's two lives at risk because of one person's choice, even more reason to make them pay more.

[-] 0 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 11 months ago

Here's the problem- how do they know if you are lying? Am I going to have to get monthly mandated checkups to make sure Im not lying?

This whole entire thing, like everything else, is about control.

For people to claim anarchy wont work is absurd. At the very least, arnet people ready to try something else?

[-] 0 points by MsStacy (1035) 11 months ago

You can always lie, but if someone actually examines you it's not that hard to spot a smoker. A doctor friend says they have a particular pallor to their skin that he recognizes when he sees a smoker in the waiting room. In addition you have the odor. Unless you wash all your clothes and keep them away from any room you smoke in, then shower, then wash your hair, you're going to smell like cigarettes. Insurance companies have been known to not pay benefits when they suspect you've lied.

Of course it's about control, when we demand health care we're asking for someone else to pay the bill. In effect that's asking them to take responsibility for our health, to take control.

The ACA barely got passed so it looks like the answer to your question is no, a large number of people haven't been convinced to try something else.

[-] 0 points by Maggie22 (107) 11 months ago

Is that right if they are poor?

[-] 0 points by MsStacy (1035) 11 months ago

We have to stop being afraid of socialism and realize that we are an interdependent society and have a responsibility to each other. Few of us are able to take care of all our own needs. Part of what we have to do is force the rich to give back to society in terms of money. That doesn't let the poor off the hook though, they have a responsibility to society too.

The responsibility of the rich may be to pay more in tax while yours may have to be to loose weight or stop smoking. In both cases it's for the betterment of society as a whole. If you want someone to help pay for your care (and that is what insurance is in part, others paying for your care) you must take on some of the responsibility for your own health.

Someone obese, for example, should be examined and given an opportunity to loose weight at a rate determined by his/her doctor without any penalty at first. Stay on track and take care of yourself and you keep all your subsidies. The effort to share the responsibility for your own health must be made however. You can't expect society to care for your high blood pressure and diabetes while you continue to overeat.

[-] 0 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 11 months ago

With the amount of taxes people have taken out of their paychecks, pay into gas, water, electric, cable, internet, cell phones, insurance, prop taxes, income taxes, state income taxes, ss taxes, payroll taxes, un employment taxes, taxes in the food, taxes in everything.....

We should be living in a socialized paradise at this point.

[-] -1 points by MsStacy (1035) 11 months ago

When I mention paying more in tax, I'm not talking about the taxes the ordinary working person pays. I'm referring mainly to the money made by people from investments that are taxed at a lower rate. The money corporations make that is kept off shore to avoid tax. The loopholes that allow corporations to escape paying tax at all.

As it is the government spends more then it takes in. People argue about how to balance that, by taxing more, spending less, or a combination of both. The only thing they can agree on though is that we do run a deficit, in spite of how much you or I pay out of our paychecks.

Drifting from my point though, which was, when it comes to health care we each have a personal responsibility for our health. A smoker can't expect to be given care at the same rate as a non-smoker. If you want public health care then you have a responsibility to take proper care of yourself.