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Forum Post: Headless Chickens Flopping

Posted 5 years ago on June 5, 2012, 8:43 p.m. EST by GringoFrijolero (38)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

The occupy movement is like a bunch of chickens flopping around with their heads cut off. I read the list of gripes posted on the Occupy Wall Street web site, and I am in general agreement, more or less, with all of them; but what I do not find is any plan or strategy to accomplish reform. It is not enough to assemble for the purpose of petitioning for the redress of grievances. Nobody is going to redress these grievances without some political force that can overwhelm the two party tyranny that protects the status quo. Having more and bigger "occupations" accomplishes nothing. Over 50% of working age Americans do not make enough money to afford food, clothing, shelter, health care, child care and education, much less any thing else. These people need to be mobilized to elect enough office holders to guarantee these things, enough to call for and populate a constitutional convention to override any Supreme Court opposition. This seems to me the concern of highest priority. Once we have that, much of the rest will follow.



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[-] 2 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 5 years ago

Everyone has the same reaction at first. Get a plan! I don't see it that way now. What's great about this site is you can exchange ideas without trying to represent OWS. The name 'OWS' say's what their main focus is. Since I don't know anything about Wall Street I talk about other things. OWS doesn't feel the need to get people to run for office right now and they may never go that way. I've only been able to gather some basic things from this site about OWS but this is what I know. OWS has a problem with some financial institutions. OWS is anti-consumer. They are leaderless. They are concerned about un-employment. I believe OWS wants to break the vicious cycle of fear and consumption, would like to see a bit more honesty and transparency in financial institutions and a less cheeky attitude from the idiots we elect to office who just need to be loved. This is NOT an easy task and I feel, as an observer, that OWS is doing just fine.

[-] 1 points by GringoFrijolero (38) 5 years ago

Occupy can get a plan or proceed without one as they wish. I am grateful to be able to propose a plan on this website. I would be overjoyed to see my idea change the world for the better. I am satisfied enough just to see what other people think about it.

[-] 1 points by know1 (210) 5 years ago

thank u ! whats anti-consumer

[-] 1 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 5 years ago

If enough people stop spending money you can crash the economy. If someone already crashed it why not crash it again? OWS is anti-consumer.

[-] 1 points by know1 (210) 5 years ago

what would u eat

[-] 2 points by GregOrr (113) 5 years ago

I am trying to move in this direction with http://the99vote.com - create a policy platform for the 99% and focus on electing candidates that support 99% issues. Please check it out.

[-] 1 points by GringoFrijolero (38) 5 years ago

I checked it out and noticed my proposal is not on the list. Maybe I will return and put it there. Thanks for the link.


[-] 1 points by GringoFrijolero (38) 5 years ago

What do whistle blowers have to do with this topic. Troll off bitch!

[-] 1 points by GringoFrijolero (38) 5 years ago

A voter registration drive to enlist the 50% who are not making it in America under the banner of "the right to a job at a living wage" does not necessarily have to include the formation of a new political party. It could include write in candidates and existing third parties.

Also, a right to work candidate being elected is probably only possible in poor districts, which would limit the possibility of an overwhelming majority in positions of power; but it sure would shake things up.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 5 years ago

grievance tyrant chicken headless

[-] 1 points by riethc (1149) 5 years ago

I agree with you, GringoFrijolero. Unfortunaely OWS is run by a bunch of subjectivists, who use the rhetoric instead of substance to justify their stances.

[-] 1 points by GringoFrijolero (38) 5 years ago

Ha. This is the first thumbs up I have received. Thanks. I am just dipping my toe in this forum. I posted this and some related ideas in previous posts which received no comments: "Occupy the Unemployment Office"; "Don't Vote for Anyone You Do Not Know Personally"; and "Were the NAZIs All Bad? Is Anarchism Enough?" I gave this post a more inflammatory title to attract attention. It seems to have worked.

[-] 1 points by riethc (1149) 5 years ago

Polemics can be very effective when they are based in truth. Keep dipping your toe in. OWS needs some people willing to challenge its status quo, to get people to think and act effectively to head off disaster.

[-] 1 points by JoeW (109) 5 years ago

No, its not the highest priority. Stop thinking within the box our government and way of living have built around you (living outside of it is another story, rather hard to achieve with the dependence created by our way of living, come to think of it, thinking outside of it is rather hard too, still working in getting that down myself).

I will say that overturning citizens united would help. But it still doesn't address the reason of why we gave corporations human rights in the first place, it doesn't address the income gap, it misses a lot of other important issues that are all interrelated because it is a symptomatic fix, rather than systemic. Its emergency first aid (or perhaps just the tourniquet), but we still need to take the victim to a hospital.

At the hospital, we can figure out what is really wrong, do the proper tests, determine how the system has been compromised. Though I think in this case the system has been compromised pretty much since its inception (by that I mean our monetary system).

[-] 1 points by GringoFrijolero (38) 5 years ago

I think that 50% of the people (those who are not making it in our society) most likely agree that jobs at a living wage are the number one priority

[-] 1 points by GringoFrijolero (38) 5 years ago

By Supreme Court opposition, I meant to include not only corporate funding of elections, but corporate personhood as well, also monetary reform (public banking) or any other obstacles they might throw in our path.

I try to think and live outside the box, and, yes, it is hard. Thanks for your comments.

[-] 1 points by Puzzlin (2898) 5 years ago

Not really Gringo. OWS has accomplishments and did start something. And here you are. Hmmm...I haven't seen your head flopping around anywhere. Did you just get here and make some snap judgement?

Or are you just a sock puppet? (We have few around)



[-] 1 points by GringoFrijolero (38) 5 years ago

Well, I live in Oaxaca, Mexico, so it's kind of hard for me to occupy wall street, but even if I was there, I don't think I would. I've been puzzlin over these things for over 50 years, so no, you little twit, it wasn't a snap judgement.

[-] 1 points by geo (2638) from Concord, NC 5 years ago

History shows that you are wrong.... at least it works in this country, from civil rights amendments, womens right to vote, prohibition. Taking to the streets and having pressure put on our elected officials through civil disobedience works.

[-] 1 points by GringoFrijolero (38) 5 years ago

Sometimes civil disobedience works, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes it works only to have it's successes reversed later. Sometimes it's hard to tell whether it made any difference. Sometimes it produces a backlash that makes things worse. The same thing can be said for more violent forms of protest.

[-] 2 points by geo (2638) from Concord, NC 5 years ago

Well since you covered every contingency...it works, it only works sometimes, it doesn't work, it creates backlash.... you wind up basically saying nothing, no offence meant.

What has not been working for the past 40 years of voting, that I have had direct experience with is our current political system. It has failed miserably and our votes count for nothing. It is corrupt and has been co-opted by special interests.

Working within this system does not work, has not worked. Which leaves little alternative than to use other means to provide pressure.

[-] 1 points by GringoFrijolero (38) 5 years ago

I could have said more by listing examples of each and opening up a new discussion as to how to avoid the failures and replicate the successes, but that would be a whole other topic. Occupy has had a few successes, but they are small and local. Basically, I don't see where Occupy is going, and I am just proposing a possible new direction.

[-] 1 points by geo (2638) from Concord, NC 5 years ago

Grassroots by definition is small and local, resulting in a collective large change. The little successes on the local scale that you dismiss are very important.

[-] 1 points by GringoFrijolero (38) 5 years ago

Point taken. I still think we need national and global as well as local solutions.

[-] 0 points by riethc (1149) 5 years ago

Those people actually had an effective political plan.

[-] 2 points by GringoFrijolero (38) 5 years ago

True. Some of the success of the civil rights movement was due to voter registration drives.

[-] 1 points by votasaurus (62) 5 years ago

I don't think political plans are going to work anymore, not while the 1% can buy elections like it did in WI yesterday. It might be time for us to consider more "active" forms of disruption in order to force change to happen.

[-] 2 points by GringoFrijolero (38) 5 years ago

The 1% will not fund a voter registration drive amongst the 50% who are poor and want a job at a living wage. If a large enough segment of the occupy movement turned their energy to this, it might make a difference. The threat of violence is what all these concentration camps they are building are designed to contain. Expect a massive backlash.

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 5 years ago

that and any non-citizens that need to be left twisting in the wind

[-] 1 points by votasaurus (62) 5 years ago

Agreed. Although I heard that people did wage a HUGE GOTV effort leading up to Tuesday. Democrats will have to figure out what worked for the other side (besides money) and try to match it or sabotage it.


[-] 1 points by riethc (1149) 5 years ago

There were many victories in Wisconsin outside of the recall election. There is a Progressive Democratic Senate Majority Leader coming in. Just got an e-mail from his political campaign.

Don't let the mainstream media spin it as the end of "democracy". That's reactionary nonsense.

[-] 0 points by timirninja (263) 5 years ago

Future is one you. Find out about Project Mayhem-2012. Spread the word and revelations shall reveal!