Forum Post: Guys, we REALLY need to approve a List of Demands. Here's How:
Posted 12 years ago on Jan. 31, 2012, 10:02 p.m. EST by blinxwang
(25)
from Johns Creek, GA
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Here's how I think it should work. I'm coming down to the NYC GA to discuss this in about a month.
I have a good layout for the demands list thing. Host it online with (rated) comments open as you initially draw it up. Have the GA of NYC decide on the initial points, and approve and debate on any that are really hot on the website. Once that's done, send a message to all other Occupy branches and ask them to have their GAs confirm or offer suggestions to the bill, which will be listed and approved by the entire Occupy movement. Once that's all done, designate a day where all the Occupy encampments cast their final votes, providing an 80% passing threshold. I know this will alienate some members of Occupy, but I say it's high time we got our crap together, fight for stated and agreed-upon demands, and show the public we're not just a bunch of lazy, confused hippies and anarchists. Thoughts?
How about this one demand. Democracy firmly back in the hands of the people, not the corporations, special interests, and the wealthy.
If we don't have this one essential power, all other demands are meaningless.
How about "...firmly back in the hands of ALL the people..."
It may sound almost blasphemous to say here, but the wealthy are people, too. They should not have any more influence than the rest of us, however. Inequality of "voice" cannot exist in a democracy.
If we persue a policy of silencing others - even though they may be wealthy - we become no better than those we ourselves condemn.
Sure, we should give the wealthy their 1% of grip on the wheel, but not until we are back on the road to Democracy.
Agreed
This should be #1 on the list! Our representative government is broken. It represents the 1% while ignoring the rest. It is closer to a Kleptocracy than a Democracy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kleptocracy
A way to put Democracy firmly back in the hands of the people, is through a Direct Democracy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_democracy
You can find one Plan for a Direct Democracy here:
http://osixs.org/Rev2_menu_commonsense.aspx
“What better way to enslave a man then to give him a vote and tell he is free".
Cheers :)
Are you aware that the Demands Working Group is not allowed to make demands. I know it sounds crazy, but its true. I have been following the minutes of the group. I summarized the latest here.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/whats-up-with-the-various-list-of-demands/#comment-619910
This may not exist anymore or I would provide the link instead of paste (every time I try to access it I get a blank page). This is an example of the type of detail and clarity necessary.
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Admin Note: This is not an official list of demands, it's a user-submitted post on our forum. The user who submitted this post only speaks for her/himself and their supporters, NOT the movement as a whole.
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(Please click on this link if you haven't yet read the introduction called "OUR TURN":https://occupywallst.org/forum/our-turn/ . Feel free to share this link with anyone you like).
TACTICS FOR "DEMANDS FOR CONGRESS"
We should make the demands below very publicly at a press conference a few days after arriving in DC. When doing so, we should give a clear deadline of 3 days for a firm written commitment with signatures from at least 60% of members of House and 60% of the members of the Senate to pass these bills by the end of the year. If this commitment on the full slate of demands is not met by midnight on the 3rd day (which it won't be) we should be prepared to non-violently block access to all or part of the Capitol complex the next morning by traditional proven non-violent tactics. The purpose is to bring the leaders of the House and Senate to the negotiating table.
NOTE: There are always entrances because there is always a point where people who work there have to leave the public street and enter secure space. We should focus our non-violent direct action and civil disobedience on those entrances no matter where they move them because these are, by definition, always accessible.
LIST OF PROPOSED "DEMANDS FOR CONGRESS"
CONGRESS PASS HR 1489 ("RETURN TO PRUDENT BANKING ACT"http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h112-1489 ). THIS REINSTATES MANY PROVISIONS OF THE GLASS-STEAGALL ACT. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass%E2%80%93Steagall_Act -Steagall_Act --- Wiki entry summary: The repeal of provisions of the Glass-Steagall Act of 1933 by the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act in 1999 effectively removed the separation that previously existed between investment banking which issued securities and commercial banks which accepted deposits. The deregulation also removed conflict of interest prohibitions between investment bankers serving as officers of commercial banks. Most economists believe this repeal directly contributed to the severity of the Financial crisis of 2007-2011 by allowing Wall Street investment banking firms to gamble with their depositors' money that was held in commercial banks owned or created by the investment firms. Here's detail on repeal in 1999 and how it happened:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass%E2%80%93Steagall_Act#Repeal -Steagall_Act#Repeal .
USE CONGRESSIONAL AUTHORITY AND OVERSIGHT TO ENSURE APPROPRIATE FEDERAL AGENCIES FULLY INVESTIGATE AND PROSECUTE THE WALL STREET CRIMINALS who clearly broke the law and helped cause the 2008 financial crisis in the following notable cases: (insert list of the most clear cut criminal actions). There is a pretty broad consensus that there is a clear group of people who got away with millions / billions illegally and haven't been brought to justice. Boy would this be long overdue and cathartic for millions of Americans. It would also be a shot across the bow for the financial industry. If you watch the solidly researched and awared winning documentary film "Inside Job" that was narrated by Matt Damon (pretty brave Matt!) and do other research, it wouldn't take long to develop the list.
CONGRESS ENACT LEGISLATION TO PROTECT OUR DEMOCRACY BY REVERSING THE EFFECTS OF THE CITIZENS UNITED SUPREME COURT DECISION which essentially said corporations can spend as much as they want on elections. The result is that corporations can pretty much buy elections. Corporations should be highly limited in ability to contribute to political campaigns no matter what the election and no matter what the form of media. This legislation should also RE-ESTABLISH THE PUBLIC AIRWAVES IN THE U.S. SO THAT POLITICAL CANDIDATES ARE GIVEN EQUAL TIME FOR FREE AT REASONABLE INTERVALS IN DAILY PROGRAMMING DURING CAMPAIGN SEASON. The same should extend to other media.
CONGRESS PASS THE BUFFETT RULE ON FAIR TAXATION SO THE RICH AND CORPORATIONS PAY THEIR FAIR SHARE & CLOSE CORPORATE TAX LOOP HOLES AND ENACT A PROHIBITION ON HIDING FUNDS OFF SHORE. No more GE paying zero or negative taxes. Pass the Buffet Rule on fair taxation so the rich pay their fair share. (If we have a really had a good negotiating position and have the place surrounded, we could actually dial up taxes on millionaires, billionaires and corporations even higher...back to what they once were in the 50's and 60's.
CONGRESS COMPLETELY REVAMP THE SECURITIES AND EXCHANGE COMMISSION and staff it at all levels with proven professionals who get the job done protecting the integrity of the marketplace so citizens and investors are both protected. This agency needs a large staff and needs to be well-funded. It's currently has a joke of a budget and is run by Wall St. insiders who often leave for high ticket cushy jobs with the corporations they were just regulating. Hmmm.
CONGRESS PASS SPECIFIC AND EFFECTIVE LAWS LIMITING THE INFLUENCE OF LOBBYISTS AND ELIMINATING THE PRACTICE OF LOBBYISTS WRITING LEGISLATION THAT ENDS UP ON THE FLOOR OF CONGRESS.
CONGRESS PASSING "Revolving Door Legislation" LEGISLATION ELIMINATING THE ABILITY OF FORMER GOVERNMENT REGULATORS GOING TO WORK FOR CORPORATIONS THAT THEY ONCE REGULATED. So, you don't get to work at the FDA for five years playing softball with Pfizer and then go to work for Pfizer making $195,000 a year. While they're at it, Congress should pass specific and effective laws to enforce strict judicial standards of conduct in matters concerning conflicts of interest. So long as judges are culled from the ranks of corporate attorneys the 1% will retain control.
ELIMINATE "PERSONHOOD" LEGAL STATUS FOR CORPORATIONS. The film "The Corporation" has a great section on how corporations won "personhood status". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SuUzmqBewg . Fast-forward to 2:20. It'll blow your mind. The 14th amendment was supposed to give equal rights to African Americans. It said you "can't deprive a person of life, liberty or property without due process of law". Corporation lawyers wanted corporations to have more power so they basically said "corporations are people." Amazingly, between 1890 and 1910 there were 307 cases brought before the court under the 14th amendment. 288 of these brought by corporations and only 19 by African Americans. 600,000 people were killed to get rights for people and then judges applied those rights to capital and property while stripping them from people. It's time to set this straight.
NOTE 1: This is from Martin Luther King, Jr.'s "Letter from the Birmingham Jail":
"Nonviolent direct action seeks to create such a crisis and foster such a tension that a community which has constantly refused to negotiate is forced to confront the issue. It seeks to so dramatize the issue that it can no longer be ignored. My citing the creation of tension as part of the work of the nonviolent-resister may sound rather shocking. But I must confess that I am not afraid of the word "tension." I have earnestly opposed violent tension, but there is a type of constructive, nonviolent tension which is necessary for growth. Just as Socrates felt that it was necessary to create a tension in the mind so that individuals could rise from the bondage of myths and half-truths to the unfettered realm of creative analysis and objective appraisal, we must we see the need for nonviolent gadflies to create the kind of tension in society that will help men rise from the dark depths of prejudice and racism to the majestic heights of understanding and brotherhood."
"The purpose of our direct-action program is to create a situation so crisis-packed that it will inevitably open the door to negotiation. I therefore concur with you in your call for negotiation."
Here's the entire "Letter from the Birmingham Jail": http://abacus.bates.edu/admin/offices/dos/mlk/letter.html . It's a treasure and is as timely as ever.
NOTE 2: Here's a short video from BBC to inspire you. It gets pretty extraordinary about halfway through:http://youtu.be/lqN3amj6AcE
NOTE 3: If you haven't seen these 3 award winning documentaries -- INSIDE JOB, THE CORPORATION, and WHY WE FIGHT -- I highly recommend them.
NOTE 4: There needs to be a very well researched and concise addendum that contains a list of the top 50 corporate crimes / harmful actions during the past 15 years. This ought to really blow people away and will help increase support both on the ground in DC and in living rooms across America as the story unfolds. We can't assume everyone knows why these demands are necessary. We must demonstrate.
I have put together some ideas as well at The Common View at http://TheCommonView.com.
I think you can join a NYCGA working group now, yes? You should check out http://www.nycga.net/groups/demands/ or http://www.nycga.net/groups/the-99-declaration-working-group/ .
Thanks, I've joined. Why are there two working groups for the same thing?
Sounds good, but you would have to use another site if you are going to use internal ratings. Here anyone can post and rate (which is both good and bad) but some other sites insist on OWS commonalities.
Sounds like a plan. Good luck.
Sounds good: Start with basic human needs:
Right to sleep: In a land whose land has run out this is a real issue. The right to property needs re-addressed. Claim the right for yourself.
Right to eat: Earth makes food. No one should be deprived of basic food if they're willing to do minimal and reasonable work (walk to the public square where the fruit trees are planted) for it. Community garden space should be as mandatory as guaranteed public TV hours by the FCC. In any real community, food is a public good. Swiping an orange from the market when your out on the streets shouldn't be a crime -- the system has failed as much or more as the cost of bringing that orange to you. In France, they simply call this "Right to Live"
Right to breathe: Bodies need air/water. These are public resources. Anything which prevents us from it needs justificiation.
Right to free associate: People are social and balance of power depends on free association. This includes internet rights too.
how bout, the right to stop wasting time talking about senseless crap that we already have and focusing on DESTROYING THE 1%'s main power pillar.
huh how bout that?
Sure.
"Right to eat"?
What business or persons will be expected (by law) to pay for the food to feed someone (for free) with the "Right to eat"?
"Swiping an orange from the market when your out on the streets shouldn't be a crime"?
So if someone is "out on the streets" and needs a car you think it would be perfectly acceptable to steal someones car?
again you confuse the words "providing" and "right". One does not need to provide anything to accommodate the right to eat. Are you willing to try and prevent someone from eating? if you don't think it is your right to eat, let me know. I would be more than willing to be the party that taxes and controls your personal eating habits. If you go hunting and get a kill, catch fish, let me know, I wouldn't mind taxing you for that meal either. Since apparently you accept that it isn't your right to eat, you should be fine with this.
" One does not need to provide anything to accommodate the right to eat. "
Generally speaking,aside from your hunting example,you're wrong. If someone is to eat for free then someone else will have to provide the food.
" I would be more than willing to be the party that taxes and controls your personal eating habits."
Now that line is funnier then shit. You ARE in the party that wants to tax and control personal eating habits. Moochele O is a great example of someone trying desperately to get that ball rolling. Cali is in the process of doing just that. Man,you Libs are amazing,you can't even keep up with your own bullshit regulations and taxes.
so she is trying to take away a right you don't have?
your life is corrupted by city life homie. Food may be purchased at the store but the earth provides it. Unless you intend to start changing the laws regarding agriculture even in urban areas, the only point you have to make is that grocery stores charge for food, well fucking du! stop arguing just to argue, you look like a child.
I'm sorry but you are the one sounding petulant and ignorant. You have not addressed anything,just said people can grow food in a garden.
Well,yeah Duh!! That goes without saying.
BUT!! The vast majority of people DO NOT have gardens and you know that. So since we can't agree to disagree I suggest we don't continue this.
This is the part you don't get. The american government is a system by, for, and of the people, they can sanction public commons areas for food growing, just as they were doing for the radio spectrum.
"The american government is a system by, for, and of the people,"
This is what you don't get. The Govt. is not a huge tit for the people to suckle. The Govt. isn't a Nanny that cleans up our shit and pays for citizens living expenses and supplying people with the means of survival.
That's NOT what the "for, and of the people" mean.
This is a Leftist spin that seems to have bullshitted lots of people including you.
You are confused. When I (and Jefferson) said I wasn't saying that the government can subsidize ANYTHING, but it CAN protect the public commons from privatized abuse.
it sounds like you're the one confusing the term 'right'. a right is something given to you by a higher power. you parallel taxing with rights, which makes no sense.
none of your comment makes sense. it would be nice if you at least had a point of view if you want to argue.
headlesscross, your own life is heavily subsidized by the earth, by "billions of years" of solar inheritance in the form of fossil fuels, and by history. What do you think you've done to justify your life?
"What do you think you've done to justify your life?"
What does that question have to do the subject of Govt. funding of food as to satisfy the demand to make eating a right?
Hmm, a rather evasive response....
I didn't say government funding for food. Didn't you read the response by richardkentgates? As well as what I said about the right to eat: public commons areas where food can be grown and tended. Read it again dumbass.
But here's a possibility, one answer to the debt problem would be to take everything from those who give nothing back. What do you give?
I'll give you this:
You OWS Leftists are completely without an understanding of reality. You are all Utopians that want a top down Govt. solution that will eventually curtail,then strip Americans of freedoms and liberty all in the belief of a so-called fair,Utopian Progressive wet dream where everybody is equal: equally poor,equally destitute,equally miserable, (North Korea) and there is no rich people and no private sector,just a huge,overbearing monster Govt. that provides a cradle to grave,1984 existence and a meager but equal subsistence.
Somehow you are deluded enough to believe that some kind of pseudo-non-violent camp out will someday change the very fabric of a free market,capitalistic American society. This is the goal of all Progressives. they've been trying for a hundred years or so to destroy the founders America and rebuild it into a Socialist/Communist Utopia.
OWS is just another one of Obama and Progressives to further this goal.
You're all Drones and puppets in an army,doing the bidding of your Masters. Soros and company are all pulling your strings.
You're too deluded and propagandized to even realize it.
Don't say I never gave you anything,good advice is priceless.
No, you are reporting from an old wound which is in the process of rectification.
There are two worlds conflated with each other and they have to be recognized so that they can sort out their respective dreams and utopias.
One is centered in China/N.Korea, and the other is centered in Israel. They have different calendrical systems, different origins, and different planets.
America just happens be a crazy clusterfuck (or "melting pot") of these two separate systems due to the ignorance of evil.
Is your proposal scheduled?
Nope. I have yet to go to NYC. Just putting it out there for people to comment on. I've heard that the OWS in NYC people are very hard to talk to and stubborn. Is this true?
IDK. Are you someone who already has had an audience with them - what's your experience?
I haven't had any experience with an Occupy movement before, but recently I decided to get involved.
sounds good. your OP seems focused on the mechanics of creating a list of demands. the real focus needs to address the necessity of such a list. A list may give the public confirmation that OWS is indeed a bunch of lazy, confused hippies and anarchists. Thoughts?
Yes, you'll be turned down. OWS is run by a few anarchists who have a stronghold on NYCGA. They do not allow the making of demands. Don't waste your money. You're embarking on a useless trip.
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http://jinnwe.com/quest.php?id=452
One has already been written up and it is ALL JAWS. Will scare the 1% senseless as it targets their magic money machine, the fed, all their lil facist bills, eradicates the irs, ends the wars and regulates media monopoly.
People in the GA are pushing this one hard but it is being blocked by the shills from the 1% shills from the spokes council.
This is absolutely crazy.
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I think doing that will take about 2 years based upon how other things are done. I could be wrong though.
My list:
Too little, too late. I already think the majority of you are lazy, confused hippies and anarchists.
Well 'whoopy do', WTF do you "think" you know about 'thinking' ?!
"Too little" effort on your part already and so it's waaay "too late" now to extract your empty head from your fat (x) as like a 'fart in a lift', your vacuous head has expanded to completely fill the copious space therein !!
Just thought I'd share my diagnosis of your evident affliction on the slim chance that your perspective ever gets beyond your own rectum !!!
nosce te ipsum ...
Nice to hear from you again. My statement was harsh.. But I stand by it for the sole reason that I do not see where this movement is going. The tea party, whether you agree with it or not, entered the political arena and had success in getting candidates in who are making a difference at the state and national level. Ross Perot and Ralph Nader made a splash on the national scene. Whether they succeeded or not, they still brought up topics that were discussed and are pertinent. OWS is stuck now as in the fall with the notion of evictions, forums, and whatnot which is going nowhere. sorry, shadz66, I am sure the majority of folk there are nice, well-meaning folk, but the movement is going NOWHERE!!!!!
Oh !!! It sounds like we've crossed swords or exchanged pleasantries before !! So IF my emotive and harsh response was just that ... well it was because I mirrored and reflected the same !
Rhetorically, what is it that you're expecting from OWS after only 4 months ? Do you accept, concede or see that 'An American Awareness' has started ?! IF you reckon that it's "going nowhere" then (with due respect 'n' all that!), WTF are you doing here ?!!
Let's face it mate, you're a Conservative ; Right-wing ; Reactionary, with malice aforethought, here wishing OWS & The Occupy Movement ill and so despite your toujours la politesse apparent good manners, politeness and good grace at not rising to my bait and provocation ; you're a 'mala fides' Troll, all day long !!!
Nothing personal you understand and anything further I say or any links I provide will be totally wasted so ...
fin.
Yes, I am a conservative and I am right wing. But there can be no conservative and right wing without a liberal and left wing.
I am expecting much more from OWS in 4 months. I would not expect it if there weren't some intelligent people out there. I may not necessary agree in someone like Noam Chomsky, but he is very intelligent and has concise and can be argued with. This damn movement is nationwide, wait, worldwide. You call yourself leaderless, but people have to comve forward to move this movement forward. I want to see you nightly on cable news. I want to hear about you on radio being taken seriously. there are good ideas out there, but they are being lost. I may not agree. chances are, I will not, but I would like to listen. It may be fin for now, but I hope things move forward in the spring
Rubber bullets shot at us with smiley faces on them.