Forum Post: Gun Control: Punishing Millions For the Crime Of One
Posted 11 years ago on Dec. 24, 2012, 3:18 a.m. EST by outlawtumor
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by AWR HAWKINS
Gun control punishes the many for the crime of the few. And in our contemporary situation, following the crime at Sandy Hook Elementary, the gun control Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) plans to propose would literally punish a hundred million people for the crime of one.
In 2005, Gallup polls told us that 30% of Americans owned guns and that they majority of them did so for personal protection. By 2012, that ownership figure seems to have risen to 40% or more Americans owning guns. Still, two/thirds of these gun owners say the reason they purchased a gun was for personal defense. That indicates one million gun owners (at least).
On Dec. 14, Adam Lanza took guns that didn't belong to him and committed horrific crimes with them.
And Feinstein and the Democrats are reacting to this crime by pushing new laws, requirements, and controls on the 100 million gun owners who had nothing to do with this crime. This is just one more troubling, and immoral, aspect of gun control--it punishes the many (in this case, 100 million gun owners) for the crime of the one. Of course, Democrats are quick to point out this isn't just about Sandy Hook. It's also the Aurora Shooting and the Clackamas Town Center shooting as well.
But does this make the pursuit of gun control any less immoral? To say we're not punishing 100 million for the crime of one individual only, but for the crime of three? (By the way, at Clackamas Town Center the shooter also stole the gun he used. Like Lanza, he wasn't even among the 100 million gun owners in America. Instead, he was just a man with criminal intent.)
This indicates a fundamental paranoia the our culture has been steeped in since at least the red scare. You have a choice between fear and love which will you choose?
Bill hicks was a profit of the revolution.
It is a simple choice!
Here's what we can do to change the world, right now, to a better ride. Take all that money we spend on weapons and defense each year, and instead spend it feeding, clothing and educating the poor of the world, which it would many times over, not one human being excluded, and we can explore space together, both inner and outer, forever, in peace. ------------Bill Hicks
Death by government — has actually killed so many more people than legal gun owners could ever possibly conceive of. Nearly 300 million people were killed by their governments in the 20th century alone. Governments were able to do so primarily when when their people were disarmed.
The Second Amendment is absolutely necessary. We need to be able to protect ourselves from the greatest cause of unnatural death in human history: government.
The death toll is so big, the horrifying devastation is hard to fathom. The list of serial killing governments goes on and on. For more statistics on governments murdering their citizenry, visit the University of Hawaii’s democide webpage.
http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/MURDER.HTM
What did many of these slain people have in common? They were disarmed. In many cases, bans on firearm possession left the majority of guns in the hands of a state who then turned its weapons against its own people.
Lenin, Stalin, Hitler and Mao all banned private gun ownership. As the Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership (JPFO) points out, “When the civilians are defenseless and their government goes bad [...] thousands and millions of innocents die.” JPFO has made two videos underscoring the gun control agenda targeting vulnerable groups, then enslaving and murdering them following disarmament.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4H-qOUmCrIU&feature=share&list=PL62BDB02F46EFE07B
How many of those people probably thought to themselves it would never happen there or to them and their families? But it did.
For a rundown of how gun control — or the idea that government controls all the guns while the people are disarmed and helpless against it — visit the JPFO website.
The 2nd Amendment reads, “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”
The phrase “shall not be infringed” is as straight forward as it gets. The reason this Amendment was written had nothing to do with hunting and everything to do with protecting ourselves from a tyrannical, out of control government and its standing army.
In the wake of the tragic Connecticut school massacre, we have witnessed an all out war on our 2nd Amendment rights, culminating in Senator Dianne Feinstein calling for draconian anti-gun legislation which Obama says he will put his “full weight” behind.
These laws would not have stopped the Sandy Hook massacre, considering the guns were stolen, used in what was supposed to be a gun-free zone which was first broken into, and Connecticut already had an assault weapons ban in place.
Yet, this tragedy is being used as a pretext to confiscate our guns and subvert our 2nd Amendment. History has shown that disarming citizens is tantamount to democide.
History is repeating itself.
Are we a well regulated militia? I think not.
Guns are for the weak; the weak minded, and weak willed. The frightened and the scared, those seeking power OVER others instead of power through community WITH others.
Just what dimension do you live in?
the human dimension,. not the machine realm of tools used only for killing,. thanks for asking.
That can't be true. Part of being human is knowing and understanding human nature and you demonstrated by your post that you're quite ignorant and naive about the very basics of this subject.
You're actually weak,also very scared and frightened of free people. Instead of having the courage to stand up and defend yourself in a free society,you rather seek to have the Government remove the threat of a free people through tyranny and subjugation so that you might feel a sense of security in a Utopian community somewhere beyond the yellow brick road no doubt. You are a sad,pathetic and weak example of your "human dimension". You need to get into the real world. Life isn't safe and there are no guarantees of anything but death. This isn't Star Trek.
When or where did I ever say ANYTHING about any gov't regulations or prohibitions? You project your fear, dip-sht. I am only speaking about culture, the gun culture is one of fear and threats, gun owners and pushers like you, are the most fearful, weak-minded, lot, needing a tool of killing to attempt to gain power OVER others, inevitably this fails,. pathetic.
Try getting to know your next door neighbor, and building a local community that protects all peaceful people in it. That is security, not hiding alown in your bunker with your AR.
More naive bullshit jph? You just don't get it and that's the saddest part of all. Knowing that you and unfortunately others think the same Utopian dogmatic bullshit.
If you'd like to live believing me and other like minded people are weak and scared that's fine. You are free for now to believe anything you want.
the 2nd amendment simply assures each citizen that they have the tools necessary to defend their life, family or property from agression, whether from an individual or the govt.
Tools of death, guns ONLY kill,. defend yourself with your voice and mind.
You really think you can stop the govt. and the hardware they got, with the sht they let you buy at the 1%'s wallmarts?
You can not stop the bankster rule with hand guns, or even assault weapons, it is a dead argument. Guns are only for those living in fear, grow a set!
Guns are intended to kill . I've been robbed at gunpoint, talking didnt do much to stop it. hilter disarmed the people of Germany. "the most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subject races to posess arms. History shows that all conquerers who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by so doing"
A few countries that have slaughtered millions in the past century:
China (PRC) (1949 – 1987) — 76,702,000 people killed.
USSR (1917 – 1987 ) — 61,911,000 people killed.
Western Colonialism (combined) — 50,000,000 people killed.
Hitler’s Germany (1933 – 1945) — 20,946,000 people killed, including their own population.
Japan (1936 – 1945) — 5,964,000 people killed.
Pol Pot’s Cambodia (1975 – 1979) — 2,035,000 people killed. Pol Pot was funded by U.S. government.
The death toll is so big, the horrifying devastation is hard to fathom. The list of serial killing governments goes on and on. For more statistics on governments murdering their citizenry, visit the University of Hawaii’s democide webpage.
http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/MURDER.HTM
WRITE CONGRESS:
http://www.house.gov/representatives/find/
http://www.senate.gov/reference/common/faq/How_to_contact_senators.htm
VP Joe Biden, Gun Panel, 1600 Pennsylvania Av, Washington DC 20006
Dear ............................:
[ Y.O.U.R...I.N.T.R.O...H.E.R.E ]
While some people may want to confiscate guns, here is a much more feasable approach. It will not solve all gun problems, but it will reduce the number of guns and will reduce the number of dangerous people who have access to guns - and isn't THAT our real goal?
Please consider advocating these four steps below to help America with our gun disasters:
My proposal - for a NATIONAL gun law for all guns & owners:
My four points are SIMPLY based on seeing a logical parallel between cars & guns.
1
all gun owners must be licensed & tested with all guns they own and pass a written test.
2
every year, you must prove that you have gun liability insurance &
be background checked and prove that your gun is properly locked when not used.
3
as the owner of a gun, you are legally responsible for what is done with it.
4
every gun must be registered and tested & a sample fired bullet stored by the police
peripherally-
Some real 2011 / 2012 gun statistics:
Americans own almost half of all civilian owned guns in the world.
Per 100,000: America: 88,880 guns owned / 2.97 homicides
Per 100,000: England…: 6,200 guns owned / 0.07 homicides
Per 100,000: Austrailia: 15,000 guns owned / 0.14 homicides
Per 100,000: Canada…: 30,800 guns owned / 0.51 homicides
Per 100,000: France…..: 31,000 guns owned / 0.06 homicides
Per 100,000: Japan……..: 1,000 guns owned / 0.08 homicides
Per 100,000: Israel……..: 7,300 guns owned / 0.90 homicides
Clearly the number of guns adds to the risk of homicides.
More complex is the effect of gun laws and restrictions.
When Australia had a massacre in 1996 when 35 people were killed, gun laws were substantially strengthened and a major buy-back was instituted. There has not been an incident in Australia since then. Of course, they did not have the benefit of the nra.
For 2011, the average Murder Rate of Death Penalty States was 4.7, while the average Murder Rate of States without the Death Penalty was 3.1
For 2011, the murder rates were highest in red state regions:
Per 100,000: South 5.5 Midwest 4.5 West 4.2 Northeast 3.9
You spend so much time yet have so little to show. This is a load of immature,childish bullshit.
sorry the facts confuse you
Cherry picking and inaccurate,desperately weak comparisons=0
Some real 2011 / 2012 gun statistics:
Americans own almost half of all civilian owned guns in the world.
Per 100,000: America: 88,880 guns owned / 2.97 homicides
Per 100,000: England…: 6,200 guns owned / 0.07 homicides
Per 100,000: Austrailia: 15,000 guns owned / 0.14 homicides
Per 100,000: Canada…: 30,800 guns owned / 0.51 homicides
Per 100,000: France…..: 31,000 guns owned / 0.06 homicides
Per 100,000: Japan……..: 1,000 guns owned / 0.08 homicides
Per 100,000: Israel……..: 7,300 guns owned / 0.90 homicides
Clearly the number of guns adds to the risk of homicides.
More complex is the effect of gun laws and restrictions.
When Australia had a massacre in 1996 when 35 people were killed, gun laws wer substantially strengthened and a major buy-back was instituted. There has not been an incident in Australia since then. Of course, they did not have the benefit of the nra.
For 2011, the average Murder Rate of Death Penalty States was 4.7, while the average Murder Rate of States without the Death Penalty was 3.1
For 2011, the murder rates were highest in red state regions:
Per 100,000: South 5.5 Midwest 4.5 West 4.2 Northeast 3.9
Lets see -
can I use the fox playbook to explain how voting "blue" reduces homicdes?
Gun free zones are a product of voting blue and RINO and look how great that idea turned out. You advocate for more of the same,shooting fish in a barrel.
You advocate for the disarming of the American people,thus that makes you a traitor. Not to complex to understand is it?
I advocate for disarming gun nutters!!!!
Oh and since gun nutters did NOTHING at all when treason was legalized by Ford, you can go screw yourself on that "protection from tyranny" BS.
If you actually meant that you would have invaded Michigan in 2010.
But no. All you do BITCH about the democrat in the White House.
why dont you also compare the populations of the countries your cite.
The statistics are per 100,000 people
the pop.of the usa is over 300 mil.. australia 22mil, japan127 mil. israel7.9 mil, france 65 mil, GB 63 mil, canada 35 mil. gun ownsership in GB and japan is not allowed, virtually nil. vastly different populations.None of the above countries has a bill of rights like ours which includes the second amendment. AND teachers in Israel are all armed. all the time.
So your point is that our high murder rate is because we are the biggest country in this group, and that getting rid of the bill of rights would reduce homicides?
No I was just pointing out that we have the largest poulation of the countries you cited and of the countries you cited we are the only one that has a constitution that guarantees our right to own a gun and that the govt cannot infringe upon that. in some of the countries you cite, gun ownership is against the law.
Excellent point. bensdad can't cope with these facts,it shoots holes through his slanted,cherry picked bullshit.
ONE?
Did you really say one??
Which ONE is that?
Isn't this jerk a Brietbart contributor?
How much you want to bet he is?
I think what is really important is to get gun magazines behind the counter to where the porno mags are, not letting kids under eighteen play military video games, not letting kids watch rambo movies without parent guidance, and not having politicians and parents out there singing bomb bomb bomb Iran. Its the social attitude toward guns and violence which must change.
Gun magazines aren't the problem. Gun ownership is a Constitutional right,porn isn't. While I do agree that a lot of these video games are startling in that they encourage the player to kill sometimes innocent video characters in situations that mirror what is happening today,I do believe that the mental health of the person is ultimately to blame.
Not the tool used to commit the massacres.
An interesting read is this book titled "On Killing" written by a Lt Col Grossman who was a U.S. Army psychologist during the Vietnam war. The Army's problem then was that they had trouble getting soldiers to kill people (imagine that). So they created this psychological training to get soldiers to kill. What happened this "kill" technology is the very same conditioning which is created by video games, gun magazines, and the like to which the general public is exposed. Lt. Col Grossman predicted many of these school shootings and other mass killings a long time ago.
By the way, porn is protected by the first amendment. However, it is also recognized that some porn is so hideous and damaging to our society as we know it that it is banned. One can make the same case for certain extreme guns.
I'm not against the right to bear arms as ultimately power, political power, is held by he who holds, or can hold, a gun. However, some reason ought be applied so as to manage violence in our society to which guns contribute without infringing upon the fundamental right of a person to defend himself; against the government if need be. Thus this all becomes a very important topic for OWS....even as OWS is a "peaceful" movement . . .
" One can make the same case for certain extreme guns."
Actually,no. That case has already been made and there are laws that regulate them currently.
I commend you for at least recognizing that the 2nd Amendment is for the citizenry in the off chance that we need to defend our freedom from a tyrannical Government out of control,however we as citizen's have our guns already regulated to the point of being way out gunned by the Government in just the machine gun vs semi-automatic contest.
So to further neuter our fire power and Constitutional rights by banning semi-auto rifles and handguns is traitorous.
At this point in America's history the gun in all it's form is so completely regulated that anything further is an infringement of our Constitutional rights. That's where this issue stands now.
Gun magazines are for the most part techy as well as instructional and are a very positive informational resource for Americans.
Ideally everyone ought to be able to have a grenade launcher, a howitzer, or maybe a small tactical nuclear weapon, but in practice common sense tells us otherwise. I certainly for one would be totally paranoid if I had to live somewhere where just anybody could have access to such weapons. I'm sure most other people would be paranoid too. Where one draws the line as to what is "extreme", i.e. too dangerous to have lying around in a society, is fair debate. Whether the feds are going too far right now, I'm not sure. What concerns me more is mitigating our current culture for gun violence. That does not mean stopping people from owning guns, but it does mean putting laws and other rules in place to get people to stop thinking like Rambo. ( I like reading gun magazines too, but I can also see how some young kids might get false impressions as to gun ownership and use. The subject of guns for kids is certainly something for adult supervision.) Ultimately, measures for mitigating gun violence, but not necessarily guns themselves, protects gun owners and the second amendment.
I find the second amendment not as some provision for some off chance event, but it is very relevant for here and now. It enables one's ability to bargain with others who have and might use weapons. One does not actually need to use a weapon, or even have a weapon, but it assures one's ability to take matters, and more important to prevent others from taking matters, beyond civility. That is very important especially when making demands to an unruly government. Unfortunately, when an organization throws the weapon option away, no one will take them seriously. That is the problem with many of these current protest movements, and then they wonder why the police come and beat them up.
It isn't about morality.
It's about obfuscation.
Just like the same-sex marriage, and abortion issues, gun ownership is a divisive tool used by the oligarchs to drive wedges through the populace.
If you have a gun you'd like to keep, report it stolen, and bury/hide it where it can't be found.
Great idea - file a false police report! bon voyage!
This is actually pretty simple. These crackerjacks just want to amp it.
So you're good with door to door gun confiscation and losing your Constitutional right?
How do you use a gun for defense or hunting if:
1 It's illegal?
2 It's buried or hidden?
There was no confiscation here.
It was a buyback scheme, using taxpayer money.
The handover of weapons was voluntary.
It is about control. It is about power.
The US Has Averaged More Than 18 Gun Deaths Every Day Since the Newtown School Shooting
Investigative project reveals shocking numbers.
January 3, 2013 |
There have been more than 400 guns deaths since the Newtown massacre on December 14, according to a new interactive project between Slate.com and the anonymous twitter user @gundeaths.
The two launched the project because, as Slate writes, there are few real-time chronicles of daily gun deaths in the United States, despite the daily mention of firearms and gun politics in the media since the shooting. In fact, the onslaught of reporting on guns has been so intense, The Huffington Post published an article this morning with the headline “So You’re Bored of the Newtown Massacre?”
Gun deaths have been a daily reality since the Newtown massacre less than three weeks ago, with an average of 18 people dying each day as a result of a fatal shooting, according to the data compiled by @gundeaths. Six of those deaths have been children under the age of 13, and another 21 were youths under the age of 17.
The vast majority of people who have died as a result of gun violence since Newtown were men. Out of the 406 fatal shootings in @gundeaths compilation, only 49 of the victims were women. For teenagers, the gender gap is even starker: 19 boys and only 2 girls have died of gun-related violence since Newtown.
The anonymous twitter user @gundeaths began reporting every instance of a fatal shooting he could find after the Aurora, Colorado, mass shooting on July 20. His data set is incomplete, meaning that the number of gun deaths since Newtown likely exceeds 406.
The Huffington Post recently undertook a similar project, chronicling the first 100 gun deaths since the Sandy Hook massacre. According to their count, the United States surpassed 100 gun deaths on December 21, exactly one week after Newtown.
Other nations have experienced similar mass shootings in their histories. But nearly all have passed considerable gun safety legislation in the wake of their tragedies, which has dramatically reduced the number of future gun-related deaths.
The United States leads the world in having the most number of guns per person.
Laura Gottesdiener is a freelance journalist and activist in New York City.
End this madness!! Many things in the original Constitution are obsolete: Slavery, denying women the right to vote, the assumption of open gun availability!!
The URGENCY is to stop the shootings, NOT the open availability of guns!!
UK ASAP, MORATORIUM NOW!!!!!
Ok - so here is my conspiracy theory -
eventually all non-gun owners will be shot
America will be controlled by the gun companies
and the people will be able to buy lots more guns
{actually I got this from glenn beck}
We are rats in a cage, crabs in a pot, people herded like cattle; yet we're still a threat to the Ranch Owners.
Nothing like a little gun play to keep us distracted, at each others throats, fighting the class war against each other, for the enemy 1%.
Unity is their number one fear.
I live outside of Chicago.
So sad.
However we let this stupid hair ball to afflict us, by design to fight the Class War against ourselves for the 1%, John Wayne propaganda, or Branch Davidian insanity, this gun mania has to stop.
http://www.demandaplan.org/
Demand a plan:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wWs86inw_Q
You should 'demand integrity'
You should watch the video to see the hypocrisy you advocate for.
How do you know I didn't watch you stupid video. I think part of your problem is an inability to distinguish between fantasy and realit
Millions of us watch violence in entertainment and never hurt a soul.
Some like you make some sick depraved connection to reality and we end up with mentally ill people slaughtering children.
What exactly does your youtube show that I advocate.?
Hypocrisy for starters.
I don't see that.
Try again.
LOL A Glenn Beck idiot claiming anyone else is a hypocrite!!!!!!
Now that's entertainment.
Please do tell you're twisted interpretation.
The video is made by gun nutters, for gun nutters, and demonstrates well why they are gun nutters. They can't tell the difference between fantasy and reality.
FEAR is all that drives them.
CRAZY FUCKING DERANGED Republican Congressman Claims Hammers Could Be Outlawed Under Assault Weapons Ban
CRAZY FUCKING DERANGED NRA Hypocritcally Slams Violent Pop Culture, Even As It Puts On ‘Hollywood Guns’ Exhibit
CRAZY FUCKING DERANGED Arizona Attorney-General Calls For Arming School Principals
http://thinkprogress.org/tag/gun-control/
Crunch the numbers and see if you can find out who paid for this drivel.
http://www.propublica.org/article/by-the-numbers-comparing-spending-by-gun-rights-and-gun-control-interest-gr
Oooops they are hiding behind Citizens United.
Here is a brief recap of Sen. Feinstein’s 2013 AWB (for a more detailed version, click here).
• Bans the sale, transfer, importation, or manufacturing of:
o 120 specifically-named firearms;
o Certain other semiautomatic rifles, handguns, shotguns that can accept a detachable magazine and have one or more military characteristics; and
o Semiautomatic rifles and handguns with a fixed magazine that can accept more than 10 rounds.
• Strengthens the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban and various state bans by:
o Moving from a 2-characteristic test to a 1-characteristic test;
o Eliminating the easy-to-remove bayonet mounts and flash suppressors from the characteristics test; and
o Banning firearms with “thumbhole stocks” and “bullet buttons” to address attempts to “work around” prior bans.
• Bans large-capacity ammunition feeding devices capable of accepting more than 10 rounds.
• Protects legitimate hunters and the rights of existing gun owners by:
o Grandfathering weapons legally possessed on the date of enactment;
o Exempting over 900 specifically-named weapons used for hunting or sporting purposes; and
o Exempting antique, manually-operated, and permanently disabled weapons.
• Requires that grandfathered weapons be registered under the National Firearms Act, to include:
o Background check of owner and any transferee;
o Type and serial number of the firearm;
o Positive identification, including photograph and fingerprint;
o Certification from local law enforcement of identity and that possession would not violate State or local law; and
o Dedicated funding for ATF to implement registration.
What PUNISHMENT???
We already have more guns than any other country! 50% of the entire world's supply of gun owned by our 5% of the world's population!!
How many more guns do we fucking need???
NONE!!!
What's the Urgency for more guns???
NONE!!!
Moratorium on all gun and ammo sales, trade, etc. NOW!!
UK gun laws ASAP!!
You are spamming nonsense again.
Only a totalitarian would regard free speech as spam.
Drop your obsolete misinterpretations of your precious number 2, and embrace The First Amendment (Amendment I) to the United States Constitution is part of the Bill of Rights. The amendment prohibits the making of any law respecting an establishment of religion, impeding the free exercise of religion, abridging the freedom of speech, infringing on the freedom of the press, interfering with the right to peaceably assemble or prohibiting the petitioning for a governmental redress of grievances.
http://www.demandaplan.org/
If they abolish the 2nd then the 1st must go also.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wWs86inw_Q