Forum Post: GREED: a definition..........
Posted 12 years ago on Feb. 27, 2012, 10:20 a.m. EST by slammersworldwillnotbecensored
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GREED:
In the fantasy world of OWS:
1) expecting to keep what you have earned, if it's a penny more than the nearest ne'er-do-well or self-determined failure has to spend......
2) anyone who saves is "greedy", because, of course, poor people can't "save" (although thousands do EVERY week)..
3) anyone who has struggled through a lifetime of hard work, dedication, constant self-improvement, long hours, uncompensated effort, education and effort, who now earns a salary proportionate to that effort.........
Because, of course....... those who: have spent almost NO time developing their skills, complain about having to do the work they were specifically hired to do, wouldn't pick up a piece of paper off the floor or the sidewalk on their way out after clocking out, who don't earn a "living wage" are victims of the system, and those who actually make an effort to improve their own lives are the villians (and...the nonsense of a "living wage", which is, of course, is determined not by "circumstance" but arbitrarily by the choices and behaviors of the person in general.....those who make bad sexual choices, or exhibit poor financial skills have more "need" and require more in a "living wage" compensation than their skills, talent, and experience would bear)
4) anyone who has saved and sacrificed for retirement or security through investment and sound financial behavior over many years........
Because those who spend every dime often on unnecessary frivolous entertainment items, and who don't manage their money well should, of course, retire comfortably too....so, those who do make good decisions should be taxed at a higher rate.....to make them equal with those who are foolish with their resources.....as uniformity, masquerading as "fairness", which is only "fair" to the losers of the world, is apparently utopia and heaven on earth.....
and we NEVER call wanting what you haven't earned, or expecting to be given things without effort, "GREED"......that is just "social justice"...since everyone should be able to live without effort.......or at least they should be able to live off the efforts of those who do more, work smarter, longer, and more efficiently......that is "Fairness" in OWS speak.....
"Greed".... IS...
a BIG hole in one's heart ...
where they feel that the only thing that can fill it ....
is more money or more power .... and it will never be filled that way ...
please look inside a little deeper ... you still have time left ...
You said it all right there, BradB. Well put.
You need to look deeper, your puerile view of the world is apparent.....time to grow up.....
Apparently in your fantasy world it is fine to demand that others provide for you, and that is not greedy, but for one to expect to reap the just harvest of their own efforts is greed....
Those who consume all their resources, and expect to be subsidized by the resources of others are far more greedy than ANYONE who plants, cultivates, and harvests their own resources no matter how large......
Profit and income is a precipitant of creating value in a system, and that precipitant is but a mere fraction of the wealth generated for the system itself......if I create a billion dollars in effect in the marketplace, expecting to be rewarded with a million, or ten million dollars (.10% or 1% of the generated wealth) is not greed and is probably less than the reward that is justly due for the impact that the creation of the billion dollars and it's subsequent ancillary effect on all of those within the system.....
It's funny how it's always the "takers" who talk about fairness and equality, but where is the fairness and equality of contribution to the system they expect to provide them with their sustenance?
Why should you reap a harvest when you planted and cultivated no seeds........Can you answer that?
slammer, you have been brainwashed by foxnews and the other 1% owned media... We (99%) believe in "Free Enterprise" and w/ that comes benefit from work ... but ... We also believe in "Equal Opportunity" ... the opportunity for ALL to be able to participate... We also believe in "Contribution" ... contributing to the system ... Investing in our People, our Cultures and in our Country's ... The Greedy want it ALL .. they do not want to Contribute... they do not want to Share ..(most often what they've stolen) .... and those Greedy ... brainwash the sheep (you) into believing that "Sharing will only lead to Communism"
"sharing" IS a collective idea.....when it's mandated by force it's not sharing, it's redistribution...
and, as far as fox news and the 1%: that is a typical response from fools like you, my personal library of several thousand books tells a different story, as does the experience of rising from poverty and personal failure and knowing the difference in attitude, action, and philosophy that defines the difference between the self-determined failures and the successful
Nice try though.......
I'm not "brainwashed"...you have just never developed an observational, critically thinking mind, so you call the difference "brainwashed".....you are merely ignorant and uneducated.......
well ... look at it this way.... do you not acknowledge that the current system is driving the people into poverty ?... and that the current system does in fact have problems ? ... in all those books you read .. did you not read any history about how the rise of communism started when all the wealth fell into the hands of a few ? ...
so... if you really want to save "free enterprise" .. and stop the inevitable move towards complete socialism... then "JOIN US" in FIXING the mess... no ?
the answers lie... in Advancement ... in Enlightenment ... in Renaissance ... in the goals of...
"Individual Freedom" ...
"Economic Prosperity" ...
"Economic Freedom" ...
& "Individual Prosperity" ...
All together ... working together...
your system of "Individual Freedom" & "Economic Prosperity" , alone fails ...
as does the system of "Economic Freedom" & "Individual Prosperity" , alone fails ...
We need it all ... We are ready for a new way ... or else we All will fail...
I reject the idea that the "system" (As in "Free Market Capitalism") is driving people into poverty.....
I think the "safety net" (which has become an entanglement that few find the means, or more importantly, the attitude, to escape) captures people and feeds them a philosophy and attitude that ensures they will never rise above their circumstances......
The education system, and many of the principles (including teachers, boards, administrators and the Dept of Ed) teach people to have a chip on their shoulder, convincing them that "they" (The Rich, Bankers, Bosses, Republicans, etc) are out to get them, and that they have no chance to make it unless the evil "they" are constrained or eliminated by powerful centralized government......and young minds are easily manipulated and many adopt these false views themselves and never endeavor to discover the reality of the world....
The "Crony" Capitalism which is at an all time high under the current administration could be said to be a real problem....
The problem with Business and Government is that when one gets involved with the other, it soon becomes an interaction, only for the benefit of those in those two entities....... Government has been up the ass of business for years, and in-turn, business has become progressively more involved in government, with financing and lobbying......it is simple defense and survival behavior......and to be expected. Get government out of the affairs of business or you'll NEVER see business out of government.....not to understand this is simply naive.......
This country will never submit to complete socialism, we are a powder keg now, and the results aren't going to be some romantic "Revolution of the People" leading to utopian uniformity and "fairness"......it will lead to Anarchy, and not the "cool" anarchical fantasy of the Chomsky-ites....
The difference between the US and Europe, or the Middle-East is that THIS country has always been a center for Individual Self-Determining Liberty......and, that we have a massive amount of Arms and Weapons in the hands of private citizens, and they will use them to protect themselves and their families in the event of a breakdown....We are already seeing it in places like Detroit, where self-defense killings have increased 2200% above the national average......up 79% in only a year...
There were 10.8 million guns sold in 2011, an all time record, and the sales of military pattern sporting rifles such as AK-47 and AR15 semi-automatics are up substantially....
Now, take Detroit, and apply that nationwide and tell me how long those who DEMAND to be supported by others, looters, and those practicing violent "civil disobedience" will survive under such circumstances?
Detroit is worse than ANY wild west town, and that is NOW, what do you suppose the future has in store?
The problem with the list you provided of:
"Individual Freedom" ...
"Economic Prosperity" ...
"Economic Freedom" ...
& "Individual Prosperity" ...
Is that the only one that can be provided for is Individual Freedom, all the others are results of actions, behavior, and personal choices....
In this country there is largely equal opportunity....regardless of circumstance there is primary and secondary education available, and there are safety nets in place to provide minimum levels of support for those who experience temporary tough times.....
But, with each poor decision, each bad behavior, and each foolish lifestyle choice you lose a little bit of that opportunity
get knocked up and you lose some opportunity, get arrested and you lose some opportunity, become a drug or alcohol abuser, you lose some opportunity, have a bad attitude, you lose some opportunity, do poorly in school, you lose a little opportunity, fail to have goals and you lose a little opportunity, and decide to "take it easy" and you lose a little opportunity....
One can easily trace the failures of people to the decisions and actions they have made in their lives, and to the attitude and philosophy they display in their daily lives......collectivism says that these things don't matter, that all should be uniform (They use the word "equality", but they mean uniformity) despite the non-uniformity of their contribution to the system......they use words like yours; "Advancement, Enlightenment, Renaissance" to corral the useful idiot drones to empower a large and powerful centralized government with the promise of plunder from the "Rich" and the toppling of the hierarchical classes (which don't exist in this country, people normally move in and out of many economic levels during a lifetime) and the creation of a "workers paradise" and utopia of equality. But, once the Centralized Power is enabled, the promises fade into obscurity and the people are tyrannized......however, the armed populace in this country throws a monkey wrench into that plan, so they attempt by incrementalism to disarm the populace.....but it's not working.
And IF the train goes off the rails, don't expect anarchical utopia as described by Chumpski......
It will be law of the jungle, only-the-strong, violent, brutal, barbaric and vicious anarchy where all those "groups" of non-participants and complainers from the welfare entitlement parasites, and the "I can't be bothered" lazy youth, the modern "thinkers" (who are actually the opposite) and their high minded nonsense of equality and libertine existence, and the bums who simply refuse to work and eschew the "system" will be eliminated, destroyed, and extinguished from existence.....Women will be subjugated to secondary status due to their physically weaker physiology and emotional psychology.....
All the advances of society will, for a time, be lost, and it will be a nightmare of brutality and merciless struggle......
Are YOU ready for THAT "New way"........
Individual liberty, sovereignty and personal responsibility are the only way to avoid the trouble that lurks in the future...not some fantastical utopian uniformity, or inequitable "fairness" where non-participants are supported by those who do participate.....
Don't think that the warnings or threats of the non-participants are going to be taken seriously......as those who attempt to make such threats will become the first casualties of the situations they warn will happen if their demands are not met......it's sort of pathetic and sad...
slammer, that is (almost) actually a good post... I appreciate it... ;)
a couple of arguments ...
---> "system" is driving people into poverty..... I said "current system" ... maybe better to say "current implementation" or "current result" of the current system is driving people into poverty..... no ?
albeit, the "current implementation" IS helping the third world in rising out of poverty... (no doubt) ... but... in the process it IS devastating the middle class back here at home...
and given a weak middle class... it soon results in weak upper class business... which leads to less jobs ...
a never-ending spiral.... We (as Capitalists) cannot divert All energy to global development... w/o affecting the local economy.... We must be responsible to our local communities.... We (as Capitalists) must continue to provide the capital resource for the local communities to rebuild .... IF... we (as Capitalists) expect to continue to control the capital which has been earned...
history shows that we DO force regulations & restrictions on free enterprise in effort to keep the middle class in strength... and that only leads to higher taxes in the current system...
why not allow the middle class into the game ? .... a strong middle class is not an enemy or a challenge to the upper class... in fact a strong middle class supports a strong upper class ....
and a strong middle class can also lift the impoverished into middle class living...
further... IF ... the middle class had the opportunities (low interest capital) to rebuild & modernize our lost manufacturing .... (and have a piece of the pie) ... we could support the do good non-profit type systems w/o having to put that burden on the wealthy thru taxation ... and the wealthy would be able to venture into grander things like commercial space exploration... medical/health centers on every corner ... etc...
why are we fighting ourselves ? ... only because of fear ... fear that is created by the ignorant and promoted by the media ....
The greed wall st speech- greed is substituted for desire, they are not the same thing for example zeal, overzealous, hunger, gluttony. Also being a trader is not the same thing as being a taker is it? We live in a world that has real limits, "please share with your brother" says Mommy...
Greed- is an excessive desire to posses wealth, goods, or abstract things of value with the intention to keep it for one's self. It is applied to a very excessive or rapacious desire and pursuit of wealth, status, and power.
Greed is someone wanting to take what somebody else worked hard for. Greed is claiming to want to spread the wealth then when you take everyone's money you shuffle a considerable amount like 99% to yourself and then you spread the rest to the useless eaters. That my friends is what BO and OWS is all about. That is what history says.
To pay someone more because they are better skilled, harder working , or just more efficient is discrimination.
Yeah..because deploying the Black-Scholes formula for trading took real skillz! i still can't grasp why those guys got a nobel prize for removing risk from the investment equation. It is a risk to get out of bed in the morning..how the hell can risk be magically removed from financial investment?? Oh yeah! Just buy CDS's..then all the dummies (*read: those who didn't get a business degree to learn that the best way out of liability is to sue the victims harmed by bad business practices for libel), get to bail you out..either by loss of pension/investment or taxpayer $$s!
And never forget Jevon's Paradox: there is nothing quite like efficiency to effect extinction for everybody:)
If we remove the profit motive we remove the risk.
I agree. If there is anything that is wrong in this world, it is the deplorable standard of giving out economic incentives to people who better themselves.
The only thing I'm kind of on the fence about is, is affirmative action okay? People say it is discrimination, but I don't know.