Forum Post: GOP Plan: Protect Millionaires, Raise Taxes on 160 Million Working Americans
Posted 12 years ago on Dec. 4, 2011, 2:30 p.m. EST by Puzzlin
(2898)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
"Last night, every single Republican senator except Susan Collins (ME) voted to protect the top 0.2 percent of taxpayers — just 345,532 millionaires– from paying a small surtax on their income over $ 1 MILLION in order to extend and expand the payroll tax cut for 160 MILLION working Americans."
"This is, in a word, outrageous. And it just goes to show how much harm the Republicans are willing to do to our economy and the 99 Percent in order to protect the top 1 Percent from paying one red cent more in taxes."
Who Does Your Senator Stand With: The 1 Percent or the 99 Percent?
Go see for your self:
"After voting down the president’s plan to extend and expand the payroll tax cut because they’ll do anything to protect the wealthiest 1 Percent, Republicans then surprised nearly everyone and voted down their own plan to extend the payroll tax cut. That GOP plan — paid for not by asking millionaires to pay even a dime more, but instead by laying off more than 200,000 federal workers and freezing the pay of the rest — went down overwhelmingly on 20-78 vote."
The republicans not only bad mouth the OWS like the Troll sympathizers here do, they do intend to destroy the middle class because they are shills for the rich and have always favored them as their rich job creators which has been their consistent lie. The facts don't hold up. That's why they have to incessantly repeat the lie in their twisted narrative.
Here's a thread where I exposed this job creation myth:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/if-the-rich-are-jobs-creators-where-are-the-jobs/
And for those with higher ambitions:
Universal Declaration of Humanity, it does exist, read it, prosper in your thinking:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/univeral-declaration-of-human-rights/
Good Luck, you'll need it!!! Try the Truth sometimes!
The truth is the PUGlican's are planning a national sales tax, or VAT.
As is known this tax will only effect the poor, as the rich simply buy wholesale and avoid retail sales.
So yes this is true the PUG's plan to tax the poor, but the VAT will be sold as a solution to all of today's problems and the VAT will be supported by all left&right, but make NO MISTAKE this is a tax on the poor, so that rich don't have to pay any tax.
The GOP will stop at nothing to stop OWS from standing up for fairness to ALL Americans to have a shot at the American Dream.
This is the republican plan no doubt. Their narrative tells them that poor people are just plain lazy and simple need to shower up and get a job. Ben Stein (fearless conservative leader) just said this on CNN about an hour ago. He laughs at the movement, and calls OWS a bunch of losers, just like the trolls here that likely love this man.
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The repugs have taken a shit on 160 million people. Now who likes these abhorrent Repugnants?
Who? Speak UP?
Don't sweat the small stuff. This is bigger than silly party politics. We don't care who is in, as long as they jail the rotten banksters.
When the banksters start doing the perp walk, we will start seeing some accountability. But I don't hold my breath. It would pleasantly surprise if we started seeing it with some vigor. He would go a long way to restore some faith in the greedy institution. I think it will be a long fight
It will be. It took Simon Wiesenthal nearly all his life to get his men. We need the same determination. Find out who has been hurt by these banksters. Line em up one at a time. Nail em one at a time.
Your right about that. We must always fight relentlessly for the truth in all matters. The truth is always worth the fight!
This thread contains the truth about how the repugnant party bends over backwards to give the rich more and more money. It's worked and the rich are becoming just filthy rich. It's obscene!!!
Thank you, friend. We will keep fighting and win. "If you keep punching, the champ will fall".
No doubt about. As Gandhi once said, "The Truth is inevitable."
We will never be able to avoid the truth, it eventually catches up!!!
If this doesn't piss off the majority of Americans by making it painfully clear of what their intentions are, I don't know what will. People should only accept this with conditions and that is the public wants a detailed budget report provided to us every year clearly proving reduced spending in military, government depts, etc and by not reducing the spending that is necessary to help us get back on our feet for the masses. We demand accountability and demand a thorough investigation of the details that indicate that our government is no longer capable of doing its job and that it appears they are destroying the foundation of which our country is based on.
If we chose to do nothing and continue to allow them to do this to us, we will have to take half of blame for our circumstances. A dictatorship is the goal of our system and they are not hiding this fact from us anymore.
I want to include this link here for the house of representatives. The link to the senate is in the premise for this thread. This is where accountability starts. We watch them regularly and when we have a question or problem with they do we can email or call. This information is on both web sites. This is our congress and if Americans payed more attention to what their Representatives & Senators are doing in Washington we would by default get much more accountability!!!
Direct L I N K to HOUSE of REPRESENTATIVES:
http://www.house.gov/
Okay, Thanks!
Your welcome. It was a loose end : )
Thanks Barb,
Your post is right on the mark. I think it's important for this movement to watch the political posturing in Washington. This is the rubber hitting the road. This vote affects all of us here, one way or the other, we're affected. I am trying to shine a light here that has truth as it's source.
Your idea for **accountability is a very strong point! I agree completely with this direction. The link for how the senate voted is a link everyone in here should bookmark if their serious about change. These votes are always there for anyone to look at how your representative or senator is voting. Get their phone number and call them. Write them. Email them. Chatting in this forum and running around the trolls is all good clean fun but somewhere along the way every one of US, here now, reading, should TAKE ACTION!!!**
DO IT!
Good Luck to ALL!!!
Puzzlin. This internet stuff is probably more important than ever. We are circulating ideas and approaches, getting everyone to think the same - get those criminals, those banksters. Handling trolls is good practice also. Many of them are testing us. Once they get it, the will join us also. After all, most are part of the 99% also.
Totally agree/ Thanks!
There has been many people that have written to their representatives for many years without any success in getting heard or addressed. The bottom line is if you are not wealthy, you don't count.
At some point we must all face the reality of what is inevitable in our future and we must also realize what it really will take to stop this. Nobody wants to go there yet and I don't blame them but what choice is left?
This is very true. I'm one of those. Having lived in different parts of the country and always politically active, I know all too well that it starts with who your senator and representatives are. That's the first road block and most the times the biggest. My representative believe it or not is Eric Cantor. He still gets my letters, emails, etc..., He sends back his form letter, boiled down basically telling me to ride off a cliff (LoL). Your right money is the thing and it's damned hard to fight against.
Which brings me the final point on this. Our only chance, but slim, is education. Education is already failing us. With no child left behind, their left behind in droves. As we know from some experience here is the more informed folks are on subjects the further along to a solution we may get. Unfortunately it's all too evident that it's not the case. Truthfully, I do these only because I feel their right, it's not a popularity thing, it really is an indelible truth about us and we need to face it. I have compassion and want to see everyone make it something good. My happiness in bound up with everyone elses. I've done well in life but I want others to be able to do that as well.
Good discussion!
Education has always been controlled by government and you are well aware of the fact that we are behind other countries in academics. College education has gone up 600% in the past decade or less, I'm not 100% sure on this one. The cost to become a physician or a scientist is unbelievably expensive and they are competitive against foreigners that come to live in this country that are willing to work for less money. Puzzlin, I too share your compassion and want to see everyone make something good out of their lives. The problem is our society has changed its values and no longer teach morals to their children. Every day lies people tell one another has become accepted and truthfulness is not what people expect anymore. This is the plague of our century now and it is the root cause for everything that is currently going wrong. I am not a religious person but I do believe in morals and treating other people and my environment with respect. It is the only way for which our species can survive, right now we are headed for extinction.
Barb,
Once again, you open up a great discussion. I have an anecdote to your particular discussion on how our discourse has deteriorated because the youth seem to have learned basic politeness and how to show respect. If you read through the general policy of this forum you will actually see a prime example of it. They say that using bad language has been accepted and is not a reason for banning, why? Because this now is the kind of society we live in. Everyone uses these emotionally charged words and it's generally accepted. So, in effect, we lower the bar, and you may now shout down anyone with curse words as long as it doesn't pass a high threshold of tolerance. So, cursing and bad language is acceptable here, and, well, you get it, it's a trend. It doesn't stop because many don't even get it, they figure insulting others is just a friendly conversation. So, strangely enough, we don't have to look far to see why the general discourse is in the mud pit. I think it's systemic of lowering expectations of how we are to be treated by others.
I suspected this but as you mentioned it and I looked, your absolutely correct. It's the new way of having a debate. Call your opponent names, belittle them, and never pay no mind to the message. Basically, killing the messenger is acceptable discourse these days. What a slide downward. Bad sign for the thinkers who like ideas. Brush up on your name calling first, and then try slide in a idea here and there during the berating. Thanks for this great point. As usual you have good insight and in this mud pit, it's precious!!!
I find this to be common on the science forums and it amazes me that supposely educated members that feel insulting others is how they get respected and can be relied on as being experts on their field of science. I view them in the complete opposite of what they expect and will not take them at their word that they know what they are talking about. Is this the generation gap of my generation and the younger generation where communication becomes difficult? You bring to this conversation something I have not considered before in that you point out the trend in lowering the bar of social communication may not mean what the older generation will interpret it to mean. Thank you! You also have good insight and great discussion too.
Yes, I think this has happened because of just this very technology we use here. Texting, chat rooms, forums and instant messaging has been a conduit for bad language, unchecked. It's unconstrained and no warnings are given for bad manners. Then the habit is re-inforced and when we complaint we seem to them to be the ones out of line. I remember being a young rebellion and these words I mistakenly thought made my statements more powerful. Now I know how mistakened I was. Respect is paramount to any of us getting along well, but the younger generation never learned that lesson. It is part of the reason we live in such divisive times. All these ploys appeal to emotion and not reason. If we lose reason in our discourse we lose everything and the result ultimately will be real physical fighting in the streets. When these emotionally charged words are hurled incessantly in real life we often can expect the fists to flying next. It's a prelude to real physical fighting. I feel that urge when I read them here so it's very very real.
This shouldn't be what this movement is about but since there's no self policing of these behaviors it is prevalent and will continue fueled by hate and anger. That's spawned the bad words in the first place. It will never help and in the end can just hurt.
Puzzlin, Once again you are absolutely correct, Respect is paramount, especially in a crowded world in today's times. These ploys that appeal to emotion is retaliation of generations that were taught always to keep your emotions in check. To the younger generations it may have been interpreted as "not being honest" regarding social behavior. Whatever the reason, this type of behavior doesn't work very well either in social settings.
Yes!
Forum Post: Tell Reid and Pelosi - Don't be a Boner! Dec. 3, 2011
http://occupywallst.org/forum/tell-reid-and-pelosi-dont-be-a-boner/
Absolutely, not a problem ZenDog!!!
Thanks for the link!
This is what democracy looks like, getting the truth out!!!
http://www.truth-out.org/
This is what democracy looks like, getting the truth out!!!
.....................................................Truth Out
http://www.truth-out.org/
My pleasure.
we don't need a payroll tax cut either
Finaly you people get it
Some of us always have gotten it but not everyone cares to listen. I'm glad you get it. The truth has a beauty that can set us on the right path. But can we see it?
This post should go back to top.
I totally agree. Good suggestion. Thanks!
Puzzlin
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The rich will PAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The Puzzler
This is the truth and look at it play out. The Repugs are through!!!
We get a tax hike and it is coming out of their a$$es
It's OVER.....................................
We either get this payroll tax break or the repugs get their a$$es chewed in the general.
Is it me or has the republican party completely disassociated themselves from the people and from reality! It seems the only debates are media controlled scripted venues, I'm not seeing candidates out in the public shaking hands or in town halls or any of that. How do they expect anyone to take them seriously! Not that I would vote for one of them if they did....
They are falling fast. It's the primary reason that Americans disapprove so much of congress. The highest disapproval recorded in history period. The republicans are squarely behind this disapproval, The just say NO party!
Same as the Dems plan. Next.
No, not really. Not even close. Sorry. Next.
Lots more spending, more war, and more breaks for the rich.
Let me know when someone says to crush the tax and trade codes and start over, redo foreign policy and start treating our monetary policy like they care about our own people.
Hello, Puzzlin, I have been doing some research and I would like to see some of the facts that you believe back your beliefs. One thing I can say, each side has their own charts and you have to view it like a scientists and look at all the facts and presumptions. I would like to see you give it your all to try to convince me. It is not necessarily a challenge; call it education of the ignorant, OK?
You guys are awesome. Instead of aiming to be rich, attack them. I absolutely do not believe the rich should be taxed one iota more than the other 99% A flat tax necessariy requires the rich to pay more that the poor. If an individual does not pay tax, they should not be allowed to vote. I am not one of the rich and I have a load of debt. However, the decisions that I made are my own and I will pay my debts. Bank of America is making a load of money on interest fees, but without them or another company, I would be in a lot more trouble. Thank God for the rich and if I cannot reach the 1% then I hope my children can through hard work and guts
Ok, Mr. Libertarian, tedsacrat, your friends have beat you here a long time ago and rant on and on about how we should give the rich even more money, even more tax cuts, since they have grown richer by at least triple while we, the middle class have stagnated and are lucky to be employed with high deductible health insurance.
Yeah we just so glad for the rich here. Overjoyed. We live the American Dream every day. And then this movement just popped up out of nowhere. We just like to protest really and we have no idea what it is we're doing. It just seems to fun. Getting arresting is a real bomb. You should try. We do try to shower at least once a day if we can.*
Yeah, thank God you came along just in the nick of time to save us from those inconvenient facts we've been discussing.
And, now, let us pray.
May God Bless the Rich even more so we may finally get those jobs we were promised when we transferred all our Wealth to the Rich.
AMEN
And, oh my God I forgot about the children Teds.
Good Bless all the children and help them see the light that those Rich people really aren't Greedy and they really have our best interest at heart.
Remember kiddies: TRUST THE RICH, they really care more for us than all that evil money, really!
You are very passionate in your beliefs. I do respect that. I believe your heart is in the right place. The fact that Bush supported a tax cut is indication of the convoluted state of the tax codes.
I believe a flat tax would take away a need of any future tax cuts for the rich as you call them. It is a shame, though, that you percieve the Rich to be the enemy. I have 3 children. The oldest one had 3 As and 4 Bs. I praised her, but I also told her she needed to do better. America is competitive and it keeps score. That is not bad. If the truly intelligent get a bigger slice of the pie, then they have earned it. Those who get a smaller share have to put out a smaller amount.
I do not trust the Rich to care about us, it is not their responsibility. A person looking after their own best interest is a known factor and can be reckoned with. Those who want to redestribute wealth - what are they after? what are their goals? what are their standards? I am not trying to hook you. Of course I am trying to change your mind. I believe I am right and you are wrong.
However, I would rather go round and round here that among the 12 members of the so-called supercomittee up in Washington
So, since you didn't answer my question directly but acknowledged Bush was addressing a tax problem which had to be the rich were being taxed too high, then I would assume that means you supported Bush's Tax cuts for the rich to adjust that convoluted problem.
Also, just to establish a foundation, do you really believe trickle down economics works?
And by the way, the GREEDY Rich are not our friends, that would make them enemy in the same respect that murder's are. Not all rich are bad and many want to be taxed higher because they really do have plenty of money. Some these greedy rich almost destroyed our financial system. I will take it that you know and understand how that went down.
What always gets me with folks like you, is why do you try to protect the rich?
We want the tax rates back where the were under Clinton. We weren't socialists then and we won't be now. They justified these tax cuts to the rich because of trickle down. They would create jobs. (See my thread on this) The numbers are in, it doesn't work. I remember Reagan I voted against him. I never fell for the trickle down BS he sold everyone else. It was smoke and mirrors.
Offer some evidence. Show proof that trickle down worked! And answer my question that I asked on my job creator thread.
Your honest, and that's a strength to work with. Just remember this, you are always graciously entitled to your opinion but your never entitled to your own facts. Those facts are owned by all of us. Every single one.
Also, nobody is right, if everybody's wrong.
Good Luck!
I would like to sit down with you with a pitcher and talk about this for a couple of hours. I think we could hotly debate this without losing our cool. Your seem very educated. Let me do some research and we will resume in a couple of days. I don't want to insult your intelligence by giving you a bunch of crapolla. Keep up the fight and I will respond soon.
Ok, you have a deal. But be warned I do my homework. I have found that most don't know the Truth because it's a narrative and not the self evident truth, without the narrative. The truth must be paid with effort, many times great effort. And as you'll learn, in politics it can get very slippery. Gray areas exist. However, since I'm a damned good design engineer (electronics) I have learned that science has answers that are not really up for debate, they just have to be learned through years and years of study. So, as you thought, I stand on an extremely firm foundation, but if I'm wrong and you can prove it, I will then admit my fault, not a problem. I demand respect but I let emotions cloud my rational thinking. I do this constantly in my design work so it's empirical for me.
Good Luck, you'll need it!
I must confess. I am a child of Reagan and I do not think my background will prepare me for you experience. If I am correct, you are probably at least 20 years older than I am. I would like to see some data that you have compiled. Do not worry, I am am not a political strategist. I am a 41 year old pharmacist. I am very interested in facts that go above and beyond the run of the mill rhetoric. Thank you and I am looking forward to seeing your results
I am not in favor in giving the rich more money. If the goal of OWS is an overhaul of the system, then a flat tax rate seems to me to be a good start. I am not an economist, but I know a little bit about math.
Assuming 345,532 millionaires and each earned just 1 million a year. a 10 % tax equates to $34.5 billion a year. If each earned 10 million, that number would be $345 billion. A 15% flat tax would equate to over $50 billion and $500 billion. And that is just from the millionaires. Combine the flat tax from every other income earner with a smaller government and you are looking at a very good start at reform. Not to mention savings in lack of tax codes to fret about with all it's associated expenses. I have also mentioned a sales tax on all consumer goods as well. Say, 5-7%.
Are you going to sit there and tell me that there is no hope in this plan and that the only option is to stick it to the rich?
Look, do some research and figure why this country has had a progressive tax system for a long time and why it's necessary. The rich need to pay more for the most obvious reasons that you seem to miss in oblivion. The flat tax is a repug idea that's been around for decades. It unfairly puts more tax burden on the poor. Read your scripture and find out how it is we should treat the poor. Maybe that will help you. You love the Rich, I get it, but your not going get very far around these parts with that kind of idea.
First, are you for letting Bush's unfunded tax cuts for the Rich expire?
Answer that and maybe we can have a discussion. But I really am not going to go round and round with you. Read my threads, there here, and I have addressed this subject thoroughly as you may out. You not going to hook me into wasting my time here.
Here's the links, fact check them, if you have a good idea, give me the facts and evidence. I am a truth seeker, and I know when I have it:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/if-the-rich-are-jobs-creators-where-are-the-jobs/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/truth-and-justice-how-to-obtain-it-and-why/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/univeral-declaration-of-human-rights/