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Forum Post: Get ready for another drop in the value of your paycheck and a crack of the whip on the backs of the poor.

Posted 1 year ago on Aug. 22, 2012, 3:45 p.m. EST by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

QE3

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/get-ready-for-qe3-2012-08-22

You people can ignore this till there isn't enough economic circulation to keep the internet operating but it isn't going away till you speak up. This is not a partisan issue, this is an issue for anyone that works for a paycheck. This is an issue for anyone not living off of investments. This is an issue for the 99%.

The markets by nature, because of consistently low demand, have to experience enough deflation to match exiting demand. There is not enough demand in our economy to justify the current level of inflation, so the FED keeps pumping money into Wall Street to prop up this unjustified inflation.

Every time they print more money or supplement credit, they are working against a real recovery because a real recovery cannot happen without some deflation taking hold first. They are placing the retention of wealth for the 1% over the needs of the 99% and any actual recovery. The FED is also retarding the self correcting nature of capitalism. This is another example of the FED perverting capitalism to feed the aristocracy.

Higher Gold from inflation fears in China http://articles.marketwatch.com/2012-08-09/markets/33108036_1_gold-futures-october-platinum-dollar-index

And in the UK http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-2142519/Bank-England-halts-quantitative-easing-fears-high-inflation.html

Yet, somehow, the proponents of QE continue to silence opposition and the money pumping continues. Maybe because the people who rule the world of finance control everyone and everything. The 1%. Wake Up Folks, while you squabble over nonsense, we're getting fucked. If this is too complicated, start googling or binging or yahooing, go to the library, read. This is too important to look away.


What is Inflation ?

What is Deflation ?

What is Quantitative Easing ?

What is Operation Twist ?


Related thread: http://occupywallst.org/forum/it-depends-on-what-class-youre-in/

72 Comments

72 Comments


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[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

good post

[-] 0 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 1 year ago
[-] -2 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

So we should agitate against the FED executing another quantitative easing? Because when they do that inflation goes up?

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

They just do that to cover for all the inflation that Wallstreet creates.

Why else do you think that bought into the FED so deeply?

[-] 0 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

So we must Agitate against QE? And prices will drop, and the economy will improve.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

You should agitate against WallStreet.

That would make the most sense.

[-] 1 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

Ok. So QE is not a real problem.?

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Don't know, but it seems to have done some good.

So you truly approve of WallStreet induced inflation?

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 1 year ago

QE feeds Wall Street and increases inflation, decreases the spending power of the working class.

QE = BAD.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

QE also keeps your IRAs, pension funds, CDs and whole host of other "investments".......operable.

The actual money had already been extracted.

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 1 year ago

Hey man, right now it's the investors or the working class. There has to be give on one or the other and the working class have nothing left to give, obviously. Investors are going to have to take the hit. There is no easy answer. Sorry, the truth is uncomfortable.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

I expected something a bit more on topic from you Richard.

This isn't the first time the QE arguments have gone through here.

As you may know, my response is to adapt MMT.

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 1 year ago

As you may know, my response is to adapt MMT.

This is nothing more than setting the bar for resolve impossibly high. It's a topic killer. Unproductive.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

You won't accept the fact that QE kept the system flowing, when the extraction had brought it to a halt.

You don't even seem to want to accept the fact of extraction and how it feeds inflation.

You know, I'm not talking about inflation to a financier, I'm talking about inflation to me.

[-] 0 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 1 year ago

You're still ignoring the fact of the extraction.

Extraction is not a real economic factor. It's simply a sinister way of saying that people are hiding from taxes. Inflation is not simply a matter of over printing money, we went off the gold standard a long time ago bud.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

$32,000,000,000,000 is not insignificant.

Quite the opposite.

Now you want to bring the gold bug crap into the argument?

MMT does deal with that.

[-] 0 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 1 year ago

QE is fighting off needed deflation by creating artificial inflation, inflation you claim to be against. There is an irreconcilable contradiction in your position.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

You're still ignoring the fact of the extraction.

You pretend it isn't real.

To take it down only to inflation/deflation, is to once again play the duopoly game.

It's much more than that. the forces involved are much more complex, and we have barley touched on how WallStreet feeds inflation.

Hell, it's what they live on.

[-] -1 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

We really don't have inflation now. I'm against the wall st 1% oligarchs, & there fin schemes, obscene salaries, their money making w/o creating jobs. There is so much I am against wall st on. But inflation is very low. So I don't know how to answer your question. I guess I'm against wall st induced inflation but I don't really see it.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

No inflation in your bubble?

I feel it every day.

You don't know how WallStreet creates inflation?

Are you from CATO, by any chance?

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 1 year ago

The FED is creating inflation by pumping money into Wall Street by QE and Operation Twist.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

The FED is covering for the money that has already been extracted.

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 1 year ago

What does that even mean? Clarify.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

You missed Ratigans rant on extraction?

The money is in all sorts of non interest bearing "accounts".

It's hidden in the Caymans, like Romoney's money.

It's not in service to the economy.

It's been extracted.

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 1 year ago

Here, someone else just gave me this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVAIM_ko_O4

I'm not trying to be mean, although I am frustrated that I cannot better explain this to you.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

I don't have time for the whole thing right now, but he's already mention WalMart.

WalMart as a corporation is a good example of what I've been trying to explain.

You can call it whatever you like, but they are selling "cheapened" goods to mask inflation/deflation.

So far, they both also seem confused about what's happening.

You want the MMT links again?

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 1 year ago

You're makin' stuff up. I you told what one of the positive effects of QE was/is, along with one of the reasons for QE. You keep arguing with it.

You say you hate inflation, yet you're a proponent of an inflationary practice. It's contradiction.

Making stuff up? Bud, I have cited a reliable source for every point I'm making.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

You don't even believe in the inflation I'm talking about.

Reliable? Reliable for whom? A Barclays banker?

Some guy at Goldmans?

So, are you saying you love inflation/deflation?

They still haven't dealt with the dirivitives issues.

they are still sailing right along.

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 1 year ago

You're assuming there's an invisible hand involved. There isn't. There are actual people doing these deeds. Here it is. The money that's been extracted has to be printed again in order to keep the system flowing. What do you think all that money hidden in Switzerland is doing? Earning dividends? Nope. it's all been extracted from the system.

You have no idea what you are talking about. You're saying the way to fight inflation is more inflation. I am not assuming anything about any invisible hand and you know it, deflect much. I have shown all my work. Deflation is needed to bring the dollar up and prices down, that is how simple it is.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

You're makin' stuff up.

I you told what one of the positive effects of QE was/is, along with one of the reasons for QE.

You keep arguing with it.

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 1 year ago

It has nothing to do with the fruit markets. It has to do with what I pay, and what I get for that payment. Money pulled from the system forces more money to be printed. It's really that simple.

True, if you're trying to maintain a false level of inflation. The reason not to print money is knowing that the market needs deflation to self correct.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

You're assuming there's an invisible hand involved.

There isn't. There are actual people doing these deeds.

Here it is.

The money that's been extracted has to be printed again in order to keep the system flowing.

What do you think all that money hidden in Switzerland is doing?

Earning dividends? Nope.

it's all been extracted from the system.

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 1 year ago

Apples and oranges.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

It has nothing to do with the fruit markets.

It has to do with what I pay, and what I get for that payment.

Money pulled from the system forces more money to be printed.

It's really that simple.

[-] 0 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

No Just working class shmoe. but i remember inflation in the 1970's and brother we ain't got no real inflation now. So maybe we have a different perspective. I mean gas prices are way up but that is greedy oil corps, commodities speculators, and opec no? Otherwise. inflation ain't nothing like it was.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (27660) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Can't have inflation ( more money in the businessman's pocket ) If people do not have money to spend beyond survival purchases.

Correction:

You can have hyper inflation if the economy is run into the ground like wallstreet almost did to us - and like no one has done anything since the meltdown to prevent a occurrence - an even worse occurrence.

100.00 loaf of bread anyone? 1000.00?

[-] 1 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

Well maybe that is why we don't have 1970's level inflation.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (27660) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

I kinda corrected that comment - I should have said you can't have normal businessman's in the pocket inflation. The 70's was definitely a hoovering up of every last penny that could be gotten to.

[-] 1 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

ok.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Actually, it's a whole lot worse now.

In the 70s wages were at least attempting to keep up with it.

Plus you could still buy stuff that wasn't made out of cheezey plastic.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (27660) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

No - though particle board crap was making a strong entrance to the scene.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

That's part of what I mean. They found ways to cheapen the products in order to mask continued inflation.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (27660) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

LOL


[-] 1 points by shooz (11780) 5 minutes ago

On the plus side. Pat Robertson would think they were gay for attracting a hurricane.................:)

That could get confusing for the GOP. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (27660) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Mittens Ayn Ryan and everyone like them. Down with corpoRATist's and every single wannabe.

Greed - malignant poisonous unopposed and even sickeningly supported has brought this world nothing but misery and is now very close to ending life on the planet.


[-] 1 points by shooz (11763) 0 minutes ago

That's the leverage of the rich in economies all over the World.

It's why they hide it and force countries to print more to make up for it.

It's just one more reason to hate Romoney. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Well, at least there's a chance of a hurricane for the RNC..................:)

Think they'll notice? What with all the hot air.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (27660) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

One could hope that the convention would be smashed flat - with mittens and Ayn the only ones in attendance at the time - Their crap being like a storm magnet that would spare the rest of the area.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

On the plus side. Pat Robertson would think they were gay for attracting a hurricane.................:)

That could get confusing for the GOP.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (27660) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Well I don't know about the "unseen" Hand - I think more in terms of the unopposed Hand. What would truly be a travesty - is now that we are making adjustments for the money which has been removed from the flow of the economy - well - if that money were to be suddenly reintroduced to the economy - we would likely see a horrendous hyper inflationary period.


[-] 1 points by shooz (11763) 0 minutes ago

Hmmm. The invisible hand done it.

It's gotta be that...................:)

Everybody knows it's magic. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

That's the leverage of the rich in economies all over the World.

It's why they hide it and force countries to print more to make up for it.

It's just one more reason to hate Romoney.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (27660) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Whom ? The new kids on the planet? The newly adult?

Well can't really blame em if they did not grow up to see/ live through the transition. They sure as hell were not properly educated as to the facts/reality - it is all a new learning experience of something they have not experienced and are just now hearing about. I suppose it would be kinda mind boggling at 1st.


[-] 1 points by shooz (11763) 0 minutes ago

They are having a problem understanding how that feeds real inflation.

How it's used to mask that inflation. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Hmmm. The invisible hand done it.

It's gotta be that...................:)

Everybody knows it's magic.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (27660) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

I've been living it my whole life too.

Stagnant wages for a major portion of the working middle class. Quality dependable products replaced with crappy disposable products. Increase in waste/pollution etc etc.


[-] 1 points by shooz (11763) 0 minutes ago

That's inflation to me.

Not at all what the government, or Wallstreet decides what it is, and it's been happening my whole life. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

They are having a problem understanding how that feeds real inflation.

How it's used to mask that inflation.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (27660) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Yes you got less ( quality product ) for the same or slightly less cost - then the crap product became just as expensive as what you used to pay for quality then it became more expensive - while the old quality product became an item for the wealthy.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

That's inflation to me.

Not at all what the government, or Wallstreet decides what it is, and it's been happening my whole life.

[-] 1 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

Wow I agree about the wages in general (mine were just starting so I went up pretty well.) And the plastic crap point as well but I seem to remember Runaway inflation rates, But if you say so.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

my point is that the inflation of the seventies didn't actually go away.

It has been masked by other things.

32 trillion divorced from the system has created the inflation.

[-] 1 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

OK. Well what do YOU suggest we do to correctthis travesty.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

OccupyWallStreet.

I thought that was evident.

If you want something to do in the meantime, you could start throwing out politicians that support, or have supported ALEC.

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 1 year ago

They are devaluing the dollar to maintain higher prices. If they don't devalue the dollar, prices will drop, investors will lose profit. Devaluing the dollar is good for shareholders but very bad for the working class. This practice from the FED is a weapon in the class war.

[-] 1 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

Sounds pretty insidious! We could use a price drop, or a wage increase. So then we should agitate against FED QE (which is dollar devalueation?) And increased wages? So if they stop the QE prices will drop? And will the economy improve?

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 1 year ago

The economy will improve when demand increase. Lower prices are known to help stimulate demand, yes.

This is why nobody wants to talk about this stuff. It isn't sexy, or catchy, it's nerd stuff. There really is no easy answer about how to sell this to the public and following this path will be painful for wealthy people who will fight this tooth and nail.

[-] 1 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

Your doing ok selling it. I should say though that prices drop very slowly. Just read where wholesale lobster prices have dropped but somehow the retail price is as high as ever. So I'm not sure if the prices really will fall to quick or too much for the retail consumer. Lotta middlemen y'know. And I doubt very much this will create increased demand. I'm in the camp that believes increased demand is the only way to grow the economy and the only way get out of this mess. I also believe the only way to increase demand is to get relief to the middle/working class. I propose cutting taxes & debt for the middle/working class. I'm against the FED (just bankers watching/serving themselves) and I can support no QE3 if it is a bad thing but I don't see how it really cuts prices and I don't think that will increase demand. You wouldn't support cutting taxes/debt for the middle/working class would you.?

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 1 year ago

If you decrease leverage across all markets by enacting policy set by congress, this would be equivalent to taking money out of circulation. Decrease leverage enough to cause slight deflation and you kickstart demand from the lower prices. By the time prices go back up, employment will have risen considerably from the increased demand and the economy will stabilize.

[-] 1 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

If you say so. I support your plan. I have my doubts as to whether it will work and more so whether it will be implemented. I suppose we should prepare for a crash? I really want to know what will happen, so I can prepare. Much appreciated.

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 1 year ago

Yeah, Wall Street gains are outrunning the rest of the economy. The last time that happened was in the late 1920s.

[-] 1 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

So are you saying a "great depression"? But all of this can be avoided if we can increase demand. And they are devalueing (QE) the dollar until demand catches up. So why don't we all agitate for cutting taxes/debt for the middle/working class. This way demand increases, theres no need for more QE. & People understand these concepts. What do you say?

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 1 year ago

I say we have been living under the proposed tax cuts for this entire recession, it seems impotent. The tax cuts are not new, it's a continuation with a modification to the upper tax bracket. Taxing the wealthy will not stimulate demand either. Deflation is the only way out. Do it under control of policy or wait for the house of cards to fall and live with runaway inflation and impossible national debt. Those are the choices.

[-] 1 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

Sounds like we're in trouble. Like you said it's hard to sell these concepts. Can't say I understand very well. So sinceit isall going to come crashing down. What assets should I buy?

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 1 year ago

I'm not here to give investment advice.

[-] 1 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

You said that. But I'm glad you gave me the warning of impending doom. That is much appreciated. Theres a lot of very smart people here. I just got a little greedy trying to pick your brain. Like a lot of people I have a mortgage and a kid in college, a family that depends on me. So I guess I figured hey can't hurt to ask. Thanks for all the info you gave me though.