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Forum Post: Germany asks for it's Gold back.

Posted 5 years ago on Jan. 17, 2013, 10:34 p.m. EST by Builder (4202)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Germany, Europe’s financial leader and owner of the world’s second-largest gold stockpile, demanded the United States’ Federal Reserve return over $200billion dollars’ worth of gold reserves to the German central bank.

This rush for commodities, gold and precious metals in particular, are an indicator of a global loss of confidence in American fiat money, even despite its status as the world reserve currency.

But why is this happening?




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[-] 1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 5 years ago

Interesting article on whats going on in the gold markets;


[-] 1 points by zippyhorn (-5) 5 years ago

How did you go brankrupt?

First gradually, then suddenly.

  • Ernest Hemingway
[-] 1 points by grapes (5175) 5 years ago

Germany has grown up from holding onto the apron string of the U.S. The repatriation of some of its gold reserves will provide an excellent excuse to limit the extent of involvement in a potential defense of the U.S. dollar and also allow a quick defense of the euro if necessary. The U.S. federal reserve's liquefying effort to shore up Europe will probably come to an end this year so the repatriated gold or its promised return can help stabilize the euro if absolutely necessary. Germany is also repatriating its gold reserve from Paris, France, too. Germany should enjoy counting its profits from having owned gold.

[-] 1 points by 4now (4) 5 years ago

Good! Then they don't need our troops in their country! Lets bring them home.

[-] 0 points by grapes (5175) 5 years ago

We have actually started withdrawing our troops prior to their calling home some of their gold. It surely feels GREAT to have Germany assume more regional responsibilities! The U.S. presence there, though fading away, will nevertheless be there in spirit, as long as the German people hold onto the values that we hold dear. Germany has come a long way from its Nazi past and it knows more about the importance of privacy from its bitter history than the U.S.

[-] -3 points by Builder (4202) 5 years ago

Germany (as a nation) is supporting the euro block of countries, which are currently under the strain of austerity measures, and possible defaults from Spain, and maybe Greece. Angela Merkel has repeatedly fobbed off suggestions that Germany can afford to prop up other economies to secure the international value of the euro.

Perhaps the stronger euro nations are realising that it was a bad idea to create a common currency. Britain (part of the group) never gave up their pound sterling.

It's an interesting global development, for mine.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5175) 5 years ago

Since Germany had stated that it would repatriate its gold in a very gaudy press conference featuring real gold bars, Cyprus had bank runs, holidays, and capital control. Perhaps the Germans were hoping that a show of real gold would have calmed the nerves of the investors or depositors. Spain and Italy have far larger economies than Cyprus -- maybe the showing of gold was for backing them, too.

[-] -1 points by Builder (4202) 5 years ago

Germany is still refusing to bail any of its troubled neighbours out though.

A show of wealth in a union of paupers is not a sign of solidarity, but a sign of insecurity about the euro's value, in my book.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5175) 5 years ago

You are right. It is just too bad that you did not tell me before the Cyprus banking crisis. I suspect though that if the euro really threaten to collapse, Germany will not stand idly by because it benefits so much from being the dominant export power in the euro area and the euro makes the European market available to Germany conveniently.

[-] -2 points by Builder (4202) 5 years ago

Germany is also hugely socialist, while maintaining regulated capitalism.

Lends the lie to the premise that Greece and Spain are where they are through socialist practises.

Euros are a fiat currency. A nation as smart as Germany would be holding large quantities of other currencies in reserve. As well as the bullion.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5175) 5 years ago

These -isms are just so much crap. People need to know that a certain balance is required to achieve a successful and thriving economy and society. Highly socialist states tend to fail so injection of capitalism can help. Likewise for highly capitalist states, injection of socialism can help.

Greece and Spain are where they are because they failed to link in well (viz., having competitive and desirable products and services) with the international trading network or impose social justice and restraints. Germany was hugely socialist but lightening itself up with regulated capitalism lifted its funk. Having the huge European market available certainly helped, too.

[-] -1 points by Builder (4202) 5 years ago

The German economy is still supported by a respected manufacturing sector. I still buy tools that are made there, and I will be down-sizing my auto to a BMW enduro cycle soon. Hint; outsourcing probably isn't happening there.

Having social support systems in place works well in other capitalist nations. There just needs to be jobs for people to actually apply for, other than in the service industry.

[-] 2 points by grapes (5175) 5 years ago

Outsourcing IS happening in Germany, too, but not to the same extent or for the long duration that it has happened in the U.S. Labor has representatives sitting on the board of directors of German companies so outsourcing has a reasonably strong opponent sometimes. It was NOT so for the U.S. companies -- too bad for the people eventually crushed.

Germany does a better job than the U.S. in linking worker training directly to really available jobs. The U.S. way was to have many people get through college education with most of their own money so that companies can hire educated workers without incurring the educational costs.

Germany has a buddy system of a sort in which their companies forgo buying cheap already or readily made products in favor of their engineers learning how to produce the products and teaching German workers how to produce the products in Germany. It dents the profits some but vitalizes the German manufacturing sector.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5175) 5 years ago

For any club's proper functioning, those who do not really belong should not belong.

U.K. could not live up to the stringent requirements of being part of the euro area so it made the proper choice under much chagrin because its economy was weak at the time and needed the floating exchange rate to fend off severe unemployment at home.

A common currency is an excellent idea for trading efficiency but without fiscal union of some sort and perhaps political union, the monetary union is just out there dangling in the wind when some countries evaded their responsibilities. Many euro-area countries are not much larger than U.S. states so doing away with exchanging money and border crossing procedures can make lives vastly easier for the Europeans.

[-] -3 points by Builder (4202) 5 years ago

For centuries, these nations managed to operate with their own currencies.

It was probably only a real pain for tourism. A common currency is only an excellent idea for the banksters for "trading efficiency", as you said, but for everyone else, it ties bad economies to good, and devalues those who maintain a work ethic and associated growth.

I have sympathy for Greece, though I believe Iceland's example needs closer attention by all of these nations being mowed under by the IMF's march to one currency.

[-] 3 points by grapes (5175) 5 years ago

Having a strong currency that is incongruous with the underlying economy can create huge social problems eventually as we have witnessed already. The best case is to have a common currency but if the stringent requirements cannot be met due to fiscal and political sovereignty, a floating currency will be better. There is much pain for toddlers having to keep up with the paces of the grown-ups, figuratively speaking. Of course, the adults can always pick up the toddlers and carry them along but Europe apparently has not quite reached that level of unity of purpose yet (i.e., family value is not quite there yet).

[+] -5 points by Builder (4202) 5 years ago

What you've overlooked is the disparity between a successful socialist productive democracy (Germany) and several faltering dependency-based tourist countries.

Where is the parity between Spain and Germany?

If there's no production in Spain, should Spaniards be heading to Germany to work? Likewise for Greeks? Can't see it happening.

Your nirvanic view of finances in the "euro=zone" tie in nicely with the 1%, but not with mine.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5175) 5 years ago

It needs not be parity as long as there is a central fiscal and political authority willing and capable of helping out when things go wrong. The U.S. has many more states than the euro area so there are definitely some states which are not carrying their own weights but we do not even keep track of the interstate trade much, nor do we really know how much one particular state has benefited from belonging to the Union or how much another one has been hurt. It is a little bit like in a family where no one really keeps track of who owes whom how much and help goes to whoever seems to need help. Under that system, monetary union can work well.

The problem is really that the Europeans still see themselves separately as Spaniards, Germans, and Greeks instead of Europeans. I first and foremost see myself as an American citizen. What state(s) of which I am/was citizen(s) is/are definitely of secondary importance.

[+] -4 points by Builder (4202) 5 years ago

We were discussing the European union.

Okay, so tell me why elections only focus upon eleven states in the American union. Are they the only states that matter?

Do the rest of the "United States" accept that the "united" bit is just a gloss-over when it comes to presidential electioneering?

Granted that Ohio is rural, is it because of the state's proximity/location that it matters the most? Or is it because of the money that comes from that state?

Remember, I live in another country, so I've got my "L" plates on.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5175) 5 years ago

Those states are "swing" states that are likely to turn Republican or Democratic on a dime. In our system of government they really matter a lot. As you probably know about our 2000 election, fewer than two thousand voters (a number of them were not even in the state at the time) of Florida decided the fate of our election. There are procedures that we follow. We can be deeply divided about U.S. politics but we abide by the results that come out from the procedures. Ohio matters the most because it has nearly equal chance of going one party or another during the election.

What is the most important material used in computer chips? Silicon because it is no good as an insulator and no good as a conductor but it can be made into either of those. Ohio and those other few states were just like silicon in our Union.

[+] -5 points by Builder (4202) 5 years ago

Then the reality is, elections for top dawg happen in Ohio.

Thankyou for that.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5175) 5 years ago

Correct. One who tips the balance finally counts the most.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5175) 5 years ago

There is not much that the U.K. can do if Icelanders took control of their country. It is that sovereignty thing again. Iceland basically said, "Go away, investors -- you lost so suck it up!"

[+] -5 points by Builder (4202) 5 years ago

Pretty much, but we both know there was more to come.

Icelanders are the only people to push for prosecution of their banksters, and win.

Is that not a symbolic gesture in your book, grapes?

[-] 2 points by grapes (5175) 5 years ago

Yes, it is the erect middle-finger gesture as returned in kind to the banksters. That is how Capitalism should work for investors -- bad investments should just be written off, forgotten, and let bygones be bygones so we can all move on after punishing the culprits which we still need to do.

[-] 0 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 5 years ago

stop reading libertarian nonsense first of all. what a bunch of fucking drivel and over exaggerated bullshit. and quote from the ap " Germany is transferring nearly 700 tons of gold bars worth $36 billion from Paris and New York to its vaults in Frankfurt." not 200 billion. seriously stop reading that libertarian infowars knock off bullshit. it will only make you look dumb.

[+] -5 points by Builder (4202) 5 years ago

This happened because the fed res refused an audit.

It would help if you kept up with the nooz, Q.

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 5 years ago

see thats why i am into civil ENVIRONMENTAL engineering. i will be able to do everything that a structural engineer can do and i can work with the environment, ecology, water, and toxins.

[-] 0 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 5 years ago

it happened because germany needs the capital for the eurozone. nyc still holds 36% of the gold germany owns.