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Forum Post: george zimmerman waives his righs to a stand your ground hearing!

Posted 1 year ago on April 30, 2013, 6:32 p.m. EST by bensdad (8977)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

so there will be a real trial!

62 Comments

62 Comments


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[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

I ask people to look for compassion. When I see the emotions around the gun ban issues and the Zimmerman Trial... I'm not sure I know the men and women who post.

George Zimmerman is a human, he has rights, his life may be largely over, and he may already be heavily in debt. You can see he has been attacked.

Travone Martin is dead. It was a gun in the wrong place. Probably, young Mr. Martin would not have killed Mr. Zimmerman. Probably there is No mischief that we could imagine that could ever justify the killing of Mr. Martin.

We can not Throw stones at George Zimmerman.

Both Travone Martin and George Zimmerman are actors in this life. They are just humans like you and me. None of us are perfect. None of us knows all the answers. We all feel human emotions. We all know the feelings of greed, envy, anger, fear, passion, joy, and longing.

Politics is about many things, strong feelings, passions, values, judgments, education, intelligence, wisdom, experience.... and we don't all share the same sub set or set of ideas.

If we lived in China in the Maoist Revolution we might all hold the same values. I have no clue how the USA will hold together and decide it's future at this point.

But somehow we have to separate condemning individuals based on emotion .... from some principals, and principled thinking to deal with each other. The emotions I see on issues clues me to the departure of thoughts and principals.

How does the Mob act?

The Mod is Group think. The mob chants an idea together.

The Mob is the scariest thing English Writers have seen in the last 100 years. Because when Group think takes over there is no thinking. ... Well I'm not very smart on this. The Mob is a Lawless or Angry Group that moves forward on passion, but doesn't really have individual thought any more.

I really don't know about this stuff. But like I said emotions often clue me in to irrational behavior. When we are children we have plenty of emotion and little thought (some of us anyway). Reading, Writing, Speech Writing, Planning, Strategizing, and holding forums probably engage the brain.

Ask yourself why Systems & Laws are breaking down. What principals should the court apply or recognize. What laws are involved? What evidence do we know about that is definitive?

  • I see how courts do not serve Main Street.
  • I see how courts apply law to consensual crime which on the face seems to be ... moralizing or moralism...
  • I see how silly Drug laws are.
  • I see how young Black Men seem to be Systematically Locked up.
  • I see how Quotas are taxes against the people
  • I see how Prosecutors and Police may need to lock up people to further their careers

So we all have different values. We all live together. But some how we have to join together in principals or values.

George Zimmerman is a man. We dont' want to destroy a man just because one man is dead. It is important to protect George Zimmerman's Life and Right to Self Determination. Human Rights protections are just as important if a man has a gun and has killed someone.

Keep digging into this and search for your truth. Your truth will be good enough for me. I will honor your truth. I will hold my truth.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

And?

I bet he doesn't do shit.

He has already received leniency that no one else would have and it sure as hell has nothing to do with his case.

[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

The Florida self-defense law 782.02 - that I'm sure will be the core of his case - It says you can kill someone who is committing a felony against you

So if GZ can "prove" TM attacked him FIRST, this may get him off
The law seems to imply that if I ( non-violent & unarmed ) pick your pocket that has $10,000 in it - you can kill me

[-] 0 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

meaningless distraction. http://www.ustr.gov/tpp Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP): 17th Round of TPP Negotiations Set for Lima, Peru -- May 15-24, 2013

[-] -1 points by Nader (74) 1 year ago

Stand your ground does not apply if someone is on top of you punching your face and smacking your head into the ground, which is the defense he is going with. In that scenario you have every right to pump a few rounds into his chest.

Not saying that is what really happened but if that is his side of the story he does not need stand your ground.

[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

can you site the law that says that if you are in a fist fight, that you can pull out a gun and kill your oppomenet because you think you are being hurt

[-] 1 points by Sandy0621 (175) 1 year ago

Under Section 776.012, Florida Statutes (Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” Law), a person is justified in using deadly force (and does not have a duty to retreat) if he or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony or to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another. Under Section 782.02, Florida Statutes, the use of deadly force is further justified when a person is resisting any attempt to murder such person or to commit any felony upon him or her or upon or in any dwelling house in which the person is located.

A Stand Your Ground pretrial hearing would require Zimmerman take the stand. Martin family lawyers believe that by rolling the Stand Your Ground piece into the trial the prosecution will find it difficult to persuade a jury beyond a reasonable doubt. The defense avoids the whole issue of Zimmerman being questioned about inciting the confrontation. He may decide not to take the stand at trial.

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

From a Florida law firm:
What Evidence is Required to Raise a Self-Defense Claim in Florida?

The defendant is entitled to a jury instruction on self-defense in Florida when there is any evidence to support the claim. This is a low standard and even a “scintilla” of evidence will be sufficient, even if the self-defense theory is extremely weak or improbable. Self-defense may even be inferred from the State’s evidence without the Defendant or a defense witness ever taking the stand.

Where there is no evidence of self-defense, the jury will not be given a self-defense instruction and the defendant will be limited in closing argument to challenging the State’s evidence and denying that the incident took place (assuming no other defenses were raised). Thus, if a Defendant testifies during trial, and states that he acted out of anger after the alleged victim walked away, he or she would not likely be entitled to a self-defense instruction. Florida courts have also denied self-defense instructions where the claim of self-defense is inconsistent with the defense theory of the case, such as where an alibi defense is raised.

There are other circumstances that may cause the denial of a self-defense instruction under Florida law. Under Section 776.041, Florida Statutes, self-defense is not available to a person who is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of a forcible felony. Section 776.08, Florida Statutes, defines “forcible felony” to include treason, murder, manslaughter, sexual battery, carjacking, home invasion robbery, burglary, robbery, arson, kidnapping, aggravated battery, aggravated assault, stalking, use of bombs, aircraft piracy, and any other felony that involves the use or threat of physical force or violence against any individual.

[-] -2 points by Narley (280) 1 year ago

So you deny Martin was on top of Zimmerman slamming his head on the ground? I believe that’s exactly what happened. The evidence supports that case.

So, if that’s true then Zimmerman had a legal right to protect himself any way he could. When someone is on top of you, slamming your head it’s prudent to think he intends to hurt you, therefore you do what you can to stop the attack.

[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

there you go again-
why are some people unable to make a reply without lying about the post they were replying to?
FYI- GZ was so badly injured that he refused to go to the hospital

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28187) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

The evidence supports that case.

What evidence? The photos of the blood and bruises on Zimmerman? OH Right There weren't any.

[-] -1 points by Narley (280) 1 year ago

There are photos and statements from police saying Zim had injuries.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28187) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

I saw the video of GZ taken right after his visit to the hospital emergency room - taken ( and leaked to the public ) at the police station as he was being taken in for further interrogation on the incident. Close up pictures of his face and the back of his head as well as showing the condition of his clothing. He appeared no worse for wear than if he had just come in from a leisurely stroll.

[-] -2 points by Narley (280) 1 year ago

Apparently the hospital thought he needed a bandage. There are pictures. You’re hung up on the degree of injury. My contention is when someone is on top of you, you have no idea how bad they intend to hurt you. So you must act BEFORE they do serious damage. Ans Zim did.

Since when is following someone at distance cause to be attacked? Zim was keeping an eye on Martin so he could tell the police where he was. He didn’t approach or confront Martin. Martin was the aggressor.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (28187) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Prest-o-change-o Alakazam - POOF

George Zimmerman on Police Surveillance | Video - ABC News abcnews.go.com/US/video/george-zimmerman-police-surveil... Mar 28, 2012 ... Tapes show neighborhood watchman on night of Trayvon Martin killing.


Now there are pictures that show minor injuries after his arrival at the police station - Note not on arrival - POOF - after arrival - friendly helpful police tune-up?


This was not in evidence at his arrival - magical appearance at station.

1st appearance of band-aids - at station - appearing "after" arrival:

George Zimmerman police interrogation video - YouTube www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3Dq4t93Xadi-Y Jun 26, 2012 ... Released by the Florida Attorney General's office as discovery evidence, made available June 26, 2012. Watch Reuters.com for more. Video is ...


Why no band-aids on arrival -"after" hospital emergency room visit?

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (28187) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Video shows no band-aid - not one.

Who says Trayvon did not try to get away from GZ?

Ummm that would be GZ the shooter.

No reason to doubt his story - hey ?

OH - WAIT - except for the fact that he forced a confrontation and killed a man.

There are pictures. You’re hung up on the degree of injury.

Show the pictures. You seem to not care that GZ looked no worse for wear - clothing and all - as if he had just had a leisurely stroll. Worse you take it for fact ( bearing in mind no witness ) GZ's "story".

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

You know.what? If you were following me, I would fight your ass with everything I had. I would put a beat down on your ass to the point that you would never do it again.

There is more at stake here then a law that was written by a bunch of punk ass thugs.

Really.

Martin was murdered.

And that's it.

I hope that bitch rots in prison.

This whole justice for Zimmerman is the most ignorant shit that I have ever seen.

[-] -2 points by Narley (280) 1 year ago

You must pretty tough. Most people would try to get away from someone following them. Me included. However, once someone is already on top of you it’s too late to get away. You have to somehow protect yourself. That’s what Zim did.

He is not guilty and should walk.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28187) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Who says Trayvon did not try to get away from GZ?

Ummm that would be GZ the shooter.

No reason to doubt his story - hey ?

OH - WAIT - except for the fact that he forced a confrontation and killed a man.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Exactly. He was told not to follow him and he did it anyway.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28187) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Yep

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Zimmerman is guilty as hell. It's fight or flight. Martin tried flight but when that didn't work....

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28187) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Exactly.

Martin tried flight but when that didn't work....

When that did not work - he was shot/killed.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Zimmerman started the confrontation. Zimmerman shot Martin.

That's it.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28187) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Plain and simple.

When there was no need for any sort of confrontation.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Yep.

There was no beat down on Zimmerman. No injuries. Pretty simple shit.

Which means, why the hell push that unless what you desperately wanted to was defend ALEC? Maybe if we make it all about somebody coming to take away people's guns..............

Like I said, the guy has had more leniency than any one else has and for all about how "those fucking punks always get away with it" it's looking like that punk is going to get away with it.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28187) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

There was no beat down on Zimmerman. No injuries.

Nope not till after arrival at the police station for the continued interview.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/george-zimmerman-waives-his-righs-to-a-stand-your-/#comment-966418

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (24542) from Coon Rapids, MN 15 minutes ago

Points out immediately a glaring inconsistency to the interrogation tape/video. Besides the already noted magically appearing wounds.

GZ - I then straddled him and held his arms pinned out to the sides away from his body until he stopped struggling/moving.

Officers report - on arriving - victims hands were under his body. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink


Had Zimmerman been anyone else then he wouldn't have been released to begin with. This whole case is jacked up.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28187) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Yep - he seemed very relaxed and buddy buddy on the vid.

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Nope.

Initial police report http://www.propublica.org/documents/item/327370-trayvon-martin-police-report

Zimmerman is treated at the scene and released by the paramedics or whom they refer to as the SFD.

http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/2013-01-09/story/police-report-changed-4-times-george-zimmerman-case

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28187) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Points out immediately a glaring inconsistency to the interrogation tape/video. Besides the already noted magically appearing wounds.

GZ - I then straddled him and held his arms pinned out to the sides away from his body until he stopped struggling/moving.

Officers report - on arriving - victims hands were under his body.

[-] -3 points by Narley (280) 1 year ago

Then we shall have to agree to disagree. It was a case of self defense, with Zimmerman just defending himself.

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[-] 0 points by Nader (74) 1 year ago

What Sandy posted - 776.012.

People are killed with fists. Someone punching the front of your face and smacking your head against the ground would certainly qualify as a forcible felony and cause great bodily harm or death. If the defense can sell this story to the jury and convince them that it is true, Zimmerman will easily walk and most likely would easily walk in any state.

I don't see why this isn't clear?

[-] 3 points by gsw (2687) 1 year ago

Well, zim had a gun and a car, got outa car to pursue juvenile on foot. Then gothis armed ass whipped. How did the weapon prevent violence?

No, it enhanced and caused the violence, he was the pursuer, left his car,despite knowledge police were on way.

He should stayed inside his vehicle, the vigilante fool.

Just IMHO.

This. Is soo sad. I don't feel good addressing it. First, do no harm.

[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

most states do not have alec laws that allow you to use deadly force with such a flimsy excuse


Most states go in this direction:
Deadly Force When is it legal to use deadly force? Should there be times when one person can lawfully kill another person? In South Africa, killing is justified when defending someone. (Bruce, 2002) In Michigan, deadly force can only be used when all other possibilities [ such as leaving ] have been exhausted (Internet, 2003).
So what is deadly force and when can it be used? Are there laws against the use of deadly force in some situations?
Deadly force is the highest degree of force considered reasonable only when used to counter an immediate threat of death or great bodily harm (Schmalleger, 2002).
Deadly force cannot be used against non-deadly force (Schmalleger, 2002). This means, if there is a lessor degree of injury anticipated, or if a lessor degree of force affords an effective defense, it must be used (Schmalleger, 2002). Once danger has been averted, the use of force must cease (Schmalleger, 2002).


Although there is no PROOF that TM attacked first, he was silenced by GZ - who was so badly injured that he walked away after he killed TM.

[-] -1 points by Nader (74) 1 year ago

Those are not laws but rather citations from academic papers, many from the same author. Our judicial system will use the actual laws as noted above.

That being said, even if they were laws it would still be a stretch to convince a jury of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

At what point in time is "all other possibilities" referring to? When Zimmerman followed him? Or when Martin was on him beating his head into the ground? That is the shit reasonable doubt is made of. Again, however, those aren't actual laws.

[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

Unfortunately, every state can have different laws, many in this area written by alec to protect gun owners for the nra. Given the evidence that I have seen, I feel that GZ is guilty
I hope the trial will get us all of the truth AND there will be a move to get rid of these kind of laws & alec's stand your ground atrocity

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28187) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Show me pictures of the severe beating he took.

You can't - because he didn't take a severe beating.

[-] -2 points by Nader (74) 1 year ago

That is because he shot him first.

There is no law that says you need to first allow death or severe bodily harm to occur before you can defend yourself. It says you can use deadly force when you reasonably believe such force is needed to prevent death or great bodily harm. That is what Zimmerman claims he did and I think most reasonable people, if they believe his story of the events, would view someone on top of another person beating their head as being able to cause death or great bodily harm.

If you can't see how hard this will be for the prosecution you are very naive. Their case is riddled with reasonable doubt.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28187) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

loser

[-] -2 points by Nader (74) 1 year ago

Very mature.

Go ahead, be a child about it just because you can't come to terms with the fact that you are wrong or just plain naive to think that this is some open and shut case.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (28187) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

loser

[-] -2 points by Nader (74) 1 year ago

I sincerely hope you are not actually any older than the 14 years of age you are acting because it would only serve to give Occupy a bad name.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28187) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

loser

[-] -2 points by DKAtoday (28187) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

No - correct - stand your ground does not apply when you ( Zimmerman ) force a confrontation.

[-] 2 points by Nader (74) 1 year ago

If you believe his side of the story he did not force a confrontation. He just followed him and then Trayvon came up behind him and attacked him.

Zimmerman and his lawyers are going to present a version of events in which the shooting was 100% justifiable. It is just a matter of whether or not the jury believes him and if the evidence supports him.

I honestly don't know whether to believe him or not. I just know the internet and the media are not the appropriate places for a trial so I find it very amusing how strongly some people feel about either his innocence or guilt.

If I was a betting man (which I am, but usually on more traditional things like baseball games) I would bet on a not-guilty because it will be tough to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. Who knows though.

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[-] -2 points by DKAtoday (28187) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Funny.

I just know the internet and the media are not the appropriate places for a trial

But You defend Him anyway.

Kinda hypocritical that.

[-] 2 points by Nader (74) 1 year ago

You need to work on reading comprehension. All I said was that if you believe his side of the story the shooting was justified. If you believe Martin's family it wasn't. It only matters what the jury believes.

Someone is getting paid a lot of money to defend him and it sure as hell isn't me but that doesn't change the fact that I think he will walk because it is going to be tough to prove beyond a reasonable doubt.

[-] 1 points by justiceforzim (-17) 1 year ago

Funny, I saw no defense in Nader's post, DK. He merely laid out some facts and reserved judgement. You, however have already found Zim guilty.

As for stand your ground, the leftwing gungrabbers were the one to beat that drum just to make noise and raise emotions. This case has always clearly been about self defense, once you got past the race baiting done by both NBC and ABC.

[-] -2 points by justiceforzim (-17) 1 year ago

Actually, it was Trayvon that forced the confrontation when he jumped Zim from behind and started pounding his head on the sidewalk. It will come out in the trial, but you'll probably have to search to find it since the MSM will drop this case like a hot potato after having misled the public up to that point.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (28187) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Fuck Off Dick Head. Now you are jumping to conclusions.

[-] -2 points by justiceforzim (-17) 1 year ago

Not really. I'd appreciate it if you could refrain from personal attacks. That is what Zim claims and the evidence seems to be pointing to. All this national attention on a local crime and not a minute for the racist butcher in Philly. Why hasn't anyone posted about Kermit Gosnell???? He gave the poor and minorities inferior (for him) care. A back alley abortionist was a safer choice. Where's your liberal outrage?

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28187) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

As your user name suggests - scratch that - as your user name says - you were prejudiced from the 1st moment you came on the site

[-] -1 points by justiceforzim (-17) 1 year ago

Did you tell "justicefortrayvon" the same thing? He inspired my username in the name of balance on this site. Besides, I never claimed to be unbiased.

How about your thoughts on Kermit?

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (28187) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

I never claimed to be unbiased.

Obvious.

[-] -1 points by justiceforzim (-17) 1 year ago

So how do you feel about murder cloaked in the pc mantra of "choice". LOL love how you leftists control the conversation...."choice", "assault weapon" "gun show loophole" "liberals"(look that up in dictionary and tell me how that describes the leftwing) "undocumented laborers"

[-] -2 points by DKAtoday (28187) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

If the charges are true - murder after live birth - then he should never see the light of day as a free man.

WTF RU ? Besides Biased/Prejudiced and controlling in your own manner?

[-] 1 points by justiceforzim (-17) 1 year ago

Ive gone from a dickhead to a biased, prejudiced controller. Wow maybe I should make an appt with you for further insights into my soul? What are your hourly rates. I probably cannot afford someone as gifted as you.

[-] -2 points by DKAtoday (28187) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Apparently you should be lobbying for universal health care so that you can go see a good Dr.

With your self love - apparent in your view that you are the only one allowed to denigrate others.

BTW - U R still a Dickhead and U have been looking to pick a fight from your 1st moment on the site. Your favorite tactic? Apparently is to Cry like a baby when you find that fight.

[-] 1 points by justiceforzim (-17) 1 year ago

And I also take pride in the fact that I am one of RARE denigrators on this site that do it POLITELY. Find a post where I have called anyone a name? I can save you the trouble.....a while back I finally broke down and called MultiMan an asshole. But that's it, and he truly is, so what can I say?

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (28187) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

so what can I say?

Nothing would be nice.

[+] -4 points by DKAtoday (28187) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Knows that his situation would not stand up to stand your ground. Or His lawyer does.