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Forum Post: Gar Alperovitz on Workplace Democracy

Posted 9 months ago on Oct. 20, 2013, 1:55 p.m. EST by struggleforfreedom80 (6584)
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[-] 4 points by shadz66 (18348) 9 months ago

''The Lies That Will Kill America'', by Bill Moyers and Michael Winship :

''Ignorance will kill democracy as surely as the big money that funds and encourages the media outlets, parties and individuals who spew the lies and hate. The ground is all too fertile for those who will only believe whatever best fits their resentment or particular brand of paranoia. It is, as an old song lyric goes, “the self-deception that believes the lie.” The truth will set us free; the lie will make prisoners of us all.''

Thanx for the enlightening Alperovitz video & in compliment, I append : http://www.garalperovitz.com/ .

fiat lux ...

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13023) from South Burlington, VT 9 months ago


  • One face in particular: Jamie Dimon, the chairman and CEO of JPMorgan Chase. One of Murdoch’s Fox Business News hosts, Charlie Gasparino, claims the Feds are on a witch hunt against Dimon for criticizing President Obama, whose administration, we are told, “is brutally determined and efficient when it comes to squashing those who oppose their policies.” But hold on: Dimon is a Democrat, said to be Obama’s favorite banker, with so much entree he’s been doing his own negotiating with the attorney general of the United States.

Since that just sounds like more spin lets look a little closer:

  • Differences in treatment by party at Congressional Hearings; Dimon's opposition to Frank/Dodd, and Dimon's Campaign spending, as reported by The Washington Post

  • Dimon's obvious influence on Presidential policy as reported by Politico

  • A closer look at campaign contributions by Dimon to the Senate Banking Committee, with the top recipient being Richard Shelby by two to one, as reported by The Nation

All of which suggests that money given in the course of political campaign is itself not a clear indicator of political affiliation at an ideological level. Behavior of men like Murdoch are much more indicative.

AS for any analysis of the Senators who received these funds, we will do much better to examine the transcript of the hearing itself, rather than to rely upon an interpretation handed to us by some third party.

[-] 2 points by HCHC4 (-28) 8 months ago


A great link with lots of local groups that you can support in any community across the country.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (21481) 8 months ago

That is an awesome link. Some coops I use, personally, are there. It would be good for them to add additional non-food type coops, like the many financial ones that exist today.

[-] 0 points by HCHC4 (-28) 8 months ago

I'm trying to find an all inclusive one, not having much luck.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (21481) 8 months ago

Here's a good link for cooperative banks or credit unions:


My very small coop bank is listed so it's pretty thorough.

[-] 2 points by struggleforfreedom80 (6584) 8 months ago

Thanks for the link.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13023) from South Burlington, VT 8 months ago

that is absolutely heartbreaking.

There is only one solution. It is the Law of Nature - Survival Dictates Killing.

[-] 0 points by shooz (17621) 8 months ago

Hasn't that always been the GOP solution??

[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13023) from South Burlington, VT 8 months ago

I'm just gonna leap and say


[-] 1 points by Copiosis (19) 9 months ago

Gar is for sure onto something. Coops (in whatever forms) seem to be more stable forms of operating organizations than other alternatives. I doubt thought that such structures can completely replace existing entities considering the status quo's momentum, simply because the status quo offers too many incentives to keep things as they are, despite the fact that the status quo is crumbling.

A system that could support such structures would also have to provide inherent controls such that behavior within those structures is organized only for beneficial ends - including stewardship of the environment. It would be great if such a structure also:

  1. eliminated the debt of all citizens
  2. abolished the financial industry
  3. neutered government, while boosting public services in ways never seen before
  4. made basic food, clothing, healthcare, education and basic shelter available to all citizens

The kind of civilization/structure Gar is talking about emerging sounds similar to Copiosis, which promises these four things and converts all private companies into coops. There's a saying in Buddhism that goes something like "when the student is ready, the master appears." I wonder if that's true too for innovative systems.....

[-] 1 points by Renneye (3322) 9 months ago

Definitely merits a good look!


...and Thank you!

[-] -3 points by HCHC4 (-28) 9 months ago

""when the student is ready, the master appears." "

Thats a good one, and prob very true. We aren't ready here yet, hence we dont have anyone really any kind of a charge. Occupy as a whole did for a minute, but the "status quo" took care of that pretty easily.

Who would have ever thought we'd end up in a time where entrepreneurship was the most stable way to get by!!

[-] 0 points by Copiosis (19) 9 months ago

I know, right? It's great that Occupy brought things to the forefront, but you're right, the establishment handled it pretty....uh...handily....

That's why I don't think "revolutions" will work. They're just too easy to quash. What can work I think, are solutions that make everybody better, not just the 99%. I know that may be controversial here on this site, but I think we have to embrace everyone as a unified species if we're going to make it. And I would like us to make it :-)

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13023) from South Burlington, VT 9 months ago

I see we have a new user named aprilsnow whose comment was deleted.

Obviously aprilsnow is none other than oktoberchill

who is in reality just another shill . . .

intent on obscuring the fact of this behavior by Dimon whose intent can be none other than to a) currie political favor or b) support the illusion of false equivalence.

[-] 3 points by struggleforfreedom80 (6584) 9 months ago


And this is how we deal with trolls/ shills

1. vote them down.

2. don't answer/respond.

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (13023) from South Burlington, VT 9 months ago

and when six of them get together, start yukin it up, back slappin, up-votin, exuding an illusion of popularity . . .

somebodies gotta spank their lame ass






[-] -1 points by HCHC4 (-28) 9 months ago

Thank you for turning me onto this gentleman. I have listened to a ton of his speaking engagements since then, and have really enjoyed them.

[-] 3 points by struggleforfreedom80 (6584) 9 months ago

No problem. Also check out these two videos where NC explains why deregulation/right-libertarianism is bullshit:



[-] -3 points by HCHC4 (-28) 9 months ago

Yes, I've watched both those before. It comes down to, imo, who is making the regulations. In a participatory democracy, there would be massive deregulating of things, due to the nature of self governing.

Either system- SL or RL - is primed for takeover if the people dont participate. Lead to where we are now. Its why I think decentralization is the key, in any system, because when it gets too far its out of sight, outta mind.

Now would I ever suggest eliminating all regulations that the local power company has? Absolutely not. Would I advocate removing the barriers to entry that they have created over 50+ years? Hell yes.

As I watch the presidents speech right now, I watch the people behind him. These people want to believe, they really do. They want to think that someone out there is working to take care of them. They havent realized yet that the best chance of taking care of themselves is to get involved, and that the corrupt always work 10X harder to get to power than, say, those that put in work during occupy.

They are filled with much more hope than they are caution. After this rally, they all go home to their community. This guy gets on a private jet and flies back to DC, out of sight and outta mind.

And the people will go home thinking that everyone is fine, even though all they did was attend a rally.

And I really think thats the key. People have to be involved. They have to be REALLY involved.