Forum Post: Freedom is the only goal
Posted 12 years ago on Sept. 25, 2011, 9:35 p.m. EST by npowell85
(249)
from Montana City, Mt
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Freedom must be the goal, and freedom only comes through a real democracy. However, nothing is going to change without a clear and concise demand. The people need to make the point that we are NOT okay with corporate campaign contributions and lobbying, and that we are NOT okay with unfounded wars based on lies about WMD's. We must make it abundantly clear that torture, rendition, and imprisonment without a speedy and a fair trial are clear violations of the inalienable rights this country was founded to protect. Religious freedom means equal freedom for all religions and not just the Christian sects. We are not okay with unwarranted wire taps and email surveillance, of warrantless search and seizure, or federal law contradicting the will of the people in any given state. The problems in the country are many, but we cannot fight to change it all at once. Lets try and identify the root problem and then fix the rest systematically after the point has been made that we as a people have had enough. It is my opinion that the root cause of all these atrocities is the clear separation between the people governing and the people governed, and that the most effective way to bring these two into alignment is to put and end to corporate financed elections and lobbying. There should be no personal gain, outside of a fair salary, for any government official for making any particular decisions regarding our country. I believe that this is a fight that can be won, if enough Americans occupy not only wall street, but the lawns of the houses of government in each state. But there must be a clear, unified message, and it must remain a peaceful protest.
REMEMBER THE VEIL OF IGNORANCE
Let us once again make this home of the brave, the land of the free.
check out pgamerica.pcriot.com your country need you. remember "Ask not what your country can do for you,Ask what you can do for your country"
A 2nd note. Dont use violence. Be appealing to good cops. They hate bad cops too. Politics, Law and Sociology. Study it and you will improve your life and be powerful!. Court room debates are what changes our society. Getting there is the challenge. Do it appropriately.
Different groups clash but our end result is wall street reform. Nothing else at this protest. Keep it simple and business oriented. Our American lives are based on the Dollar!. Its only fuels human life when its in the hands of patriots. Violence is useless when 1,000 groups use it against each other. Set emotion aside and act with an educated mind. Being peaceful is a neccesity to success in a protest. Be appealing to the police, the people, the nation. We are in this together. Act appropriately. If you get what you want like A JOB! with real workers rights, dont screw it up. Work hard and be sincere about business. Make something of yourself. Good luck to you all
The roots of the problem: selfishness and self centeredness, and greed... and yes, it MUST remain peaceful...
Democracy can't bring peace or freedom. We humans can, if allowed to rule our own lives in freedom. No government will ever allow that.
Alex: I understand your point, and in principle I agree. There is never a regulation that will give people more freedom than they would have had in their natural state. However, that being said; anarchy is so free that we can kill and steal from one-another without cause or punishment. There is a reason why our ancestors left this "ulitmate freedom." Even the most primitive man knew that people have to interact to survive, and therefore rules must be made to govern those interactions and there must be punishment for those who do not comply. Don't get me wrong I am totally a libertarian, but I don't want to have to fight for food and I like my car and my laptop... neither of which could exsist in anarchy.
Anarchy isn't Chaos. As a libertarian you should know about the NAP, same thing applies within an anarchist society.
I don't believe that in an anarchist society you can kill on impunity, heck in this society, with it laws and regulation enforced by a government, if you know what you are doing you can kill without ever having to face time. It's not difficult killing and getting away with it, look at how the percentage of solved murders is in decline.
People will keep killing each other no matter what, they will steal, lie, cheat, whatever the system may be. The bad about governments is that you give a minority the power to do all those things without ever facing the consequences. They steal your money (taxes), they murder you if they deem it necessary (political assassinations, false flag operations), they kidnap you because they want to for whatever reason they can come up with (For dancing, taking a picture, for not liking your face), they con you into things you should otherwise not want (bailout, war on Iraq), they immobilize you from flying (no fly list), they lock people up without trail (Guantanamo and the many other prison like that one), they kill foreigners because it suits them.
So yea I prefer to take my chances with anarchy than to live in a society based to enslaving me. I'll take a libertarian society as a second close alternative over what we have now.
I'm also not saying rules should be abolished completely, but rules and agreements should be based on free will and not enforced by someone who thinks he has the authority over you.
Any rule must have an enforcer or it does no good. The authority is derived from the people, that is what has been forgotten...
The rules are made by our politicians, and they want only one thing: to keep their jobs. So they are going to do their best to represent the people who put them in power. Unfortunately in this country they have all been put into power by special interest groups and not by their electorate. That is where the problem lies. I don't agree with any of the things listed in your third paragraph and if you read my original post I think I have made that clear. We definately need change, but I think we need to return to our roots and do away with all the preversions of our way of government that have occured in the last century, not fight to overthrow and be rid of government completely. If that was even possible we would end up the United States of Walmart anyway. Better to fix the broken system than try to devise a new one.
You show the big flaw of democracy... "rules" must have an "enforcer". The moment something needs to be forced against the freewill of someone than it ceases to be moral.
A system lacking morality is one that will end corrupt, no matter how good the intentions were. To fix the current system, may bring some relative peace, but will end as rotten as it is now. When something doesn't work, throw it away and try something else. Something inclined to be rotten will be rotten, no matter how hard you wish otherwise.
Let's demand the Glass-Steagall Act.
Check out my article: Knock out Wall Street with One Punch
Hey, the war on terror was NOT unfounded. it was a fight against an evil religion.
War on terror is unfounded because you can't fight an method. It's an insane notion.
Turn it the other-way around, what do you think a lot of Muslims consider the Christians to be that sends drones over their border and kill their little children? I can fairly guess they think it "an evil religion."
What would you do if someone sends a drone and kills your children, or little nephews, or brothers and sisters? Would you be happy? Would you be accepting? Would you feel love for them? Would you think them bringers of freedom?
It's a terrorist act bombing weddings. Which happens from time to time. It's a terrorist act to shoot a teenage boy just for the fun of it. It's a terrorist act to just randomly shoot around hitting bystanders. It's a terrorist act invading another country. It's a terrorist act to bomb a village(from another sovereign country) killing tens to hundreds just because you thought there may be someone you don't like among them.
So if war on terror is NOT unfounded, shouldn't some self killing also be happening? Please start with those who gave the orders, from the top down.
The United States of America does not go to war on any religion. That is against everything this country was founded upon. The "war on terror" just like the "war on drugs" is impossible to win. You cannot defeat an idea, or an attitude with force. Islam is not evil. There are certainly muslims who do evil however, as there are Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, and atheists. If you took time to educate yourself about those who believe something different, you may find that you have more in common than not.
I couldnt agree more. I should have clarified, I was saying that fundamentalist Islam is evil not the whole thing. However, I do not believe that a war on terror is impossible to win. If we kill all the terrorists, then there wont be any left!
Put yourself in their shoes. If someone invaded our country and bombed the house next to your family's because there was someone living there who did not agree with their ideals, and your father or brother or son was killed in the attack. Wouldn't you want revenge? If you were less educated and therefore more nieve, couldn't you see how the very steps we have taken to "kill all the terrorists" could just create more? I think that military occupation is not the answer. What about truly securing our boarders through intelligence, and changing the view of people in the middle east through philanthrapy efforts, wouldn't this make more sense? save more lives? breed less hate?
I am going to assume you are familiar with the Windows Task Manager. To kill a process, simply pressing delete is not enough. In fact, you must right click and press "Kill process tree". You can see my analogy, as by "killing the process tree" of terrorist families ie. killing the whole family we prevent the spread of the terrorist ideals.
so you are advocating that the united states of america go into every european and asian country and kill every family member of every terror SUSPECT? what happened to innocent until proven guilty? how many more people do you think would hate america if we started killing the family members of terror suspects... seriously? you are like one of those people who cheered at the republican debate when they announce that Gov Perry had put more inmates to death than any other modern governor. You are on the wrong website my friend.
You have to break a couple eggs to make an omlette.
I disagree sir, I believe that humans have certain inalienable rights (meaning rights which cannot be stripped or given up, even with consent) and that the foremost of those rights is the right to life.
I can't agree with this one more. I trace most of the problems I see down to this one thing. I might throw in the buffet law too, but that would only be second.