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Forum Post: Fox News Viewers Uninformed, NPR Listeners Not, Poll Suggests

Posted 2 years ago on Nov. 21, 2011, 5:31 p.m. EST by puff6962 (4052)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

A poll by Farleigh Dickinson University in New Jersey showed that of all the news channels out there, Fox News viewers are the least informed.

People were asked questions about news habits and current events in a statewide poll of 600 New Jersey residents recently. Results showed that viewers of Sunday morning news shows were the most informed about current events, while Fox News viewers were the least informed. In fact, FDU poll results showed they were even less informed than those who they don’t watch any news at all.

Readers of The New York Times, USA Today and listeners to National Public Radio were better informed about international events than other media outlets.

In one major example, New Jersey poll participants were questioned about the outcome of the so-called Arab Spring uprisings in North Africa earlier in the year. A total of 53% of respondents know that Egyptians were successful in overthrowing dictator Hosni Mubarak. Also, 48% know that the Syrian uprising has thus far been unsuccessful in Assad. But on balance, Fox News viewers were 18-points less likely to know that Egyptians overthrew their government than those who watched no news at all. Fox News viewers were also 6-points less likely to know that Syrians have not yet overthrown their government than those who watch no news at all, suggesting a daily dose of soundbytes from CNN at the gym, and headlines from Google News were enough to surpass what average Fox viewers polled knew about current events.

Fox News is the leading cable news channel.

“Because of the controls for partisanship, we know these results are not just driven by Republicans or other groups being more likely to watch Fox News,” said Dan Cassino, a professor of political science at Fairleigh Dickinson and an analyst for the PublicMind Poll. “Rather, the results show us that there is something about watching Fox News that leads people to do worse on these questions than those who don’t watch any news at all.”

The kicker is that MSNBC didn’t do all that much better. In one question, some 11% of MSNBC viewers actually believed that Occupy Wall Street protesters were Republicans compared to just 3% of Fox viewers.

“Ideological media does a very poor job overall,” Cassino told Forbes. “They don’t challenge people’s assumptions. In traditional news, you will find that more often than not, there actually is a correct answer and there is no gray area. People who tune into ideological media are motivated to hear their side of the debate and so you can have someone who watches MSNBC be so used to hearing about protests coming from the right that they automatically believe that Occupy is mostly a Republican protest.”

Occupy Wall Street leaders are not in support of any political party.

On international news, Fox viewers were by far the least likely to know that the Egyptian protests led to the resignation of Hosni Mubarek, followed by MSNBC in a distant second for least informed.

279 Comments

279 Comments


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[-] 4 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

FLAKESnews just makes stuff up. Big stuff, little stuff, and mixes it all together, with real news and "commentary".

It's the TV equivalent of the stuff in the racks at the grocery check out. I've met folks that think that's news too. They even think they are well informed, but then who doesn't?

I take most "news", with a grain of salt and an eye towards propaganda. Then I check for other sources.

[-] 3 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

Most people believe every word that is spewed by Fox news.

[-] 4 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

It's why I would like to see a return to the Fairness Doctrine.

Few know what journalism is anymore.

[Removed]

[-] 1 points by Just1MoreVoice (76) 2 years ago

That statement might work a bit better if you edited it to say "Most FOX News watchers" instead of "most people" and try to keep in mind that the fact that it has the largest overall audience doesn't make that number of morons equivalent to the majority of the U.S. population. Fox gets much of its market share by being the channel of choice in corporate settings, airports and hotel lobbies. It is not the source of news for nearly as many people at it claims to be.

[-] 1 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

Please realize that puff6269 is an imposter. I apologize for the confusion.

[-] 1 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 2 years ago

if you smoked 6,962 J's, what do you think your impostor has been smoking?

[-] 1 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

Not enough.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Then of course you do believe all that is spewed by FLAKESnews!!!!!!

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

No, haven't smoked enough for that.

[-] 0 points by daveindenver (36) 2 years ago

Actually, I think your an imposter. I think you are actually Debbie Wasserman Schultz.

[-] 1 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

How did you know?

[-] 0 points by daveindenver (36) 2 years ago

To obvious.

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

But I was wearing the fake, circumcized, penis and everything.

[-] 0 points by daveindenver (36) 2 years ago

Wow, antisemitic too? Actually my guess is you probably would need one to masquerade as a man. You have so much class. Can't understand why you have so much time on these sites, no job? Wonder why? Maybe if you were able to earn a living, you could donate money to actually help people rather than just rant that everyone should be giving you more money to do what ever it is you do.

[-] 1 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

How much time do you think this takes? Learn to type and you will find out that the hardest thing about replying to trolls like you is having to wait two minutes between responses.

Antisemitic? My wife is Jewish.

[-] 0 points by daveindenver (36) 2 years ago

Poor woman, hope she makes a good living to support you.

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

I do just fine and so does she. You can make a lot of money if you know how to think. If you want to discuss investing, that is what I do.

[-] -1 points by daveindenver (36) 2 years ago

Wow, one of the evil Wall Streeters. Who would have guessed. No thanks, I think I will go to cash and gold. Thinking the Euro is going to collapse and our economy along with it. If we had an actual leader instead of Obama we may have a different future, but unfortunately we don't.

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

Be greedy when others are fearful and fearful when others are greedy.

[-] 2 points by Gillian (1842) 2 years ago

Well, comparing Fox to NPR is like comparing The Thomas Jefferson Hour to The Housewives of Orange County. More folks watch Housewives than they listen to NPR for obvious reasons ( sex, drama, money). NPR isn't about sensationalism, histrionics, drama, partisan rantings and ratings. NPR is privately funded by folks that value education, social justice, the humanities, world politics and other social topics. The great journalists of my time are long gone ( deceased, fired or retired) and now we have trendy news and weather-- they even use the word, " trending" all the time now! Even the weather channel gags me now. SO, I decided to just get the most basic cable and listen pretty exclusively to NPR and Rush or some other radical right winger ( just to know what the other side is spouting that day). Like Shooz, I always check my sources and always try to be objective.

[Deleted]

[Deleted]

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

Oh, sorry, I was in troll swatting mode and misread. I'll delete that comment.

[-] 2 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 2 years ago

The Fox News topic has gone the way of global warming, the debate about their reputation is already over, they are just too stupid to know it.

[-] 1 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

Ya, but start a discussion about Global Warming and keep the little troll buggers on this page. Watch.....

[-] 1 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 2 years ago

I think we're safe for a little while, football's on.

[-] 2 points by SpotsLights (14) 2 years ago

fox is obviously the official "Idiocracy" channel

but npr is not a great news source. more subtle establishmentarian biases. get your news online or better yet, make your own history.

[-] 1 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

I am.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

I do not like MSNBC. I think this is a pretentious media war. I hate Murdoch. He is the most vile human on the planet. I think the fatal mistake that Americans make is falling into the trap of someone else interpreting the news. I think it maintains part of a "helpless" society.

Even now, you have to read news from several sources and as many international papers that you can just to get a full grasp of what is happening and all sides of the issues.

I do love NPR, however, they did a little shift in the past 8 months that I am not very impressed with.

[-] 1 points by reason321 (43) from West Windsor, NJ 2 years ago

If a lie is repeated enough times, it becomes truth. This is exactly what some medias are doing, and politicians too. They are the masters of this skill. How many people believe that Obama was born in a foreign country? If you only watch Fox News, you will believe it too.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

I agree. You have to be a real dimwit to be a birther.

They win no journalistic awards from my corner. Like I said, Murdoch is the most evil, vile man on the planet. But, the reality is that (by last time I checked) we have less than 2,000 independent media sources in the US. That is everything. If I recall this correctly, criteria to met is to kick out one journal a year. Again, this covers radio, internet, books, journals, television. The whole shebang. Media conglomerates.

So, no matter how much I think that Fox and/or Murdoch is the anti-Christ, if someone is sitting on a board at another media conglomerate and sits on the board of an insurance company or real estate company or a fund or an investment firm.....how slanted is my news going to be from that corner?

[-] 1 points by reason321 (43) from West Windsor, NJ 2 years ago

The real problem is that people tolerate this and even support this. How can you wake people up?

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

The real problem is that people have felt powerless to do anything.

http://www.freepress.net/ownership/chart/main?gclid=CN-y597YzKwCFcx-5QodvxV7pQ

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

Ya, but look at this forum. You post something serious and thoughtful and.....nobody reads it.

On the other hand, you mention Libertarian or something inflammatory, and you get 600 responses.

Boring is what we need, emotional is what we respond to.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

I agree.

[-] 1 points by blazefire (947) 2 years ago

I just read this...(!LOL) And I understand! It is very difficult to have an intellectual discourse through this particular forum... there are other places you can go however where intellectual discourse is almost the only thing permitted. And the structure and organisation almost go too far ( in many ppl's opinion anyhoo,I like it there, lol) .... I float around in between, looking for people like yourselves! Don't be disheartened! There is much to be said and heard on this strange place we call internet! Seek and ye shall find... Mundus vult decipi!

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

The world will be deceived?

Ex malo bonum.

[-] 1 points by blazefire (947) 2 years ago

Or that the "common" man wants to.... and that the taste for truth is an acquired taste, a taste that few acquire.... Carpe diem! Quaerendo Invenietis! World peace is at hand! Ex malo bonum!

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

Nihil facilius se dolo. Quid quisque voluerit, et ipse credit verum esse.

Demosthenes

[-] 1 points by blazefire (947) 2 years ago

"A butterfly flaps it's wings"....the very measure of a fractal.

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

Yes, and out of chaos, order.

[-] 1 points by blazefire (947) 2 years ago

Build this order from the building blocks of order, and give us chaos!

[-] 1 points by blazefire (947) 2 years ago

Ruat coelum, fiat justitia ecce, lex rex! Carpe diem!

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

Good shit.

[-] 0 points by FrankieJ (86) 2 years ago

I've become a little disappointed with NPR too. More and more of an opinion is creeping into their news and programming. Even worse, unlike Fox, in a lot of cases it's not nearly as overt and easily filtered. More in the way that things are said, who's interviewed and who's not, etc. Unfortunately, it's very hard these days to find a good source for independent news without a point of view and I'm sad to see them going away.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

I agree. I think this change was brought on after repeated threats of loss of funding after the James O'Keefe incident.

[Removed]

[-] 1 points by thomasthetank (41) 2 years ago

Troll Away!!!!!!!!!

I love the rightwinger responses to this topic.

It's like they didn't like the garnish on the plate so the meal must have been bad.

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 2 years ago

You are missing the point -
most foxes dont NEED to be informed by truth and facts
they have their book

[-] 1 points by XXAnonymouSXX (455) 2 years ago

Nooooo! Not FOX News. Really? Is anyone surprised by this?

[-] 1 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

Global Warming, according to Fox News Viewers, is only real when it refers to your bald, fat, head is exposed to the sun and your dumb wife forgot the sunscreen.

Global warming is real, no matter what Fox says.

[-] 1 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 2 years ago

I couldn't make this up if I tried.

(John) Boehner Cites Cow Farts To Downplay Global Warming (VIDEO)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/19/boehner-calls-global-warm_n_188688.html

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

And in GLOBAL WARMING, Boehner never mentions the hot air emitted by dumb fatass Republicans.

Global warming is happening now and Boehner put's out this stuff. Amazing.

You couldn't make this stuff up....I agree.

[-] 1 points by TheDoctor (6) 2 years ago

Could you give an example of an Occupy Wall Street leader that was mentioned in the post?

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

What post?

[-] 1 points by Puzzlin (2898) 2 years ago

Yes it is true that if you only watch Fox News you mind will be filled with so much crap that no one will hear except other fox news fans.

Great thread. I always like to see the truth expose these liars!

[-] 1 points by aries (463) from Nutley, NJ 2 years ago

hahaha - keep dreaming !

[-] 1 points by daveindenver (36) 2 years ago

Wow, a study by Farleigh Dickinson University, now that would not be biased in any way would it. I'm sure that the professors there are completely neutral. I'm sure the people that get all their information from MSNBC are much better informed. They probably even tune into Current TV and watch Keith Olberman a couple times a day to make sure that their view are validated.

[-] 1 points by flip (6775) 2 years ago

do you have a point or are you simply a fool - are you saying that fox is good info - they are all capitalist and they are all huge corporations - getting their revenue from other huge corporations - what do you think they are going to tell you. for sure fox is the worst but if you think msnbc is left hen go back and look at their coverage in the build up to the sham war in iraq - see what keith had to say then. my guess is that you are a fool - from denver no less - what a nice place - wasted on all sorts of crackers and rednecks

[-] 1 points by daveindenver (36) 2 years ago

Wow, Flip, not racist at all are we. Frankly, I don't give a whit about your opinion of me. I'm sure you get all your new from good old Keith, that's why you are so uninformed.

[-] 1 points by flip (6775) 2 years ago

i guess you can't comprehend what i said about msnbc being a capitalist corporation- crackers usually can't - don't think that can be called racist though - unless you are talking to hannity or beck

[-] 1 points by daveindenver (36) 2 years ago

Please reply in sentences that make sense. I will refrain from calling you names, I respect people, even the ones I disagree with.

[-] 1 points by flip (6775) 2 years ago

you are so respectful of others - and so wise and helpful - case in point - Wow, a study by Farleigh Dickinson University, now that would not be biased in any way would it. I'm sure that the professors there are completely neutral. I'm sure the people that get all their information from MSNBC are much better informed. They probably even tune into Current TV and watch Keith Olberman a couple times a day to make sure that their view are validated. - sorry i was not able to make myself understood - i'll try again - it's not so hard - msnbc - capitalist - corporation - biased! get it! fox - more so - get it - now go to sleep you need rest - it's been a hard day - i hope you are paid well - double time on weekends (you do know the commies got you the weekend right?)

[-] 1 points by daveindenver (36) 2 years ago

I was referring to you calling me a cracker, what would happen if I called you a ni****. Would that set off world war three or what, you sir need to figure out how to make a valid point. You can call me any name you want, I really don't care, your opinion means nothing to me, you would actually have to make a valid point first.

[-] 1 points by flip (6775) 2 years ago

this is not an opinion - msnbc - capitalist - corporation -that is the main point of the discussion - some silly supposed left right bias in the media - they are all corporations and therefore will only give us the capitalist line - all of them - sorry i was unclear - as to the cracker comment i do not think it is racist but it is a subtle point that i don't think we should get into now - let's stick to the bias in the media. here is noam - The propaganda model is a conceptual model in political economy advanced by Edward S. Herman and Noam Chomsky that states how propaganda, including systemic biases, function in mass media. The model seeks to explain how populations are manipulated and how consent for economic, social and political policies are "manufactured" in the public mind due to this propaganda.

The theory posits that the way in which news is structured (through advertising, media ownership, government sourcing and others) creates an inherent conflict of interest which acts as propaganda for undemocratic forces. First presented in their 1988 book Manufacturing Consent: The Political Economy of the Mass Media, the "Propaganda model" views the private media as businesses interested in the sale of a product — readers and audiences — to other businesses (advertisers) rather than that of quality news to the public. Describing the media's "societal purpose", Chomsky writes, "... the study of institutions and how they function must be scrupulously ignored, apart from fringe elements or a relatively obscure scholarly literature".[1] The theory postulates five general classes of "filters" that determine the type of news that is presented in news media. These five classes are:

Ownership of the medium
Medium's funding sources
Sourcing
Flak
Anti-communist ideology
[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

There has always been media bias and media manipulation.....but, what limited such abuses to a low buzz, was the desire for journalists and publishers to be respected in their professions.

Television came along and, initially, it had a chip on it's shoulders. It desired this same respect and, for a time, strenuously applied itself to being the most accurate news source.

Fox news changed everything......and, it must go.

[-] 1 points by flip (6775) 2 years ago

certainly agree that fox is nonsense but look at ed herman's work or chomsky - the capitalist media is an organ of state propaganda - look at the coverage of the vietnam war in 1964 - walter cronkite etc - look at the ny times coverage in the run up to the war in iraq. look at their editorial about powell's address to the un - a home run they said - he had artists renditions of chemical trucks - all nonsense

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

It's odd how there is never a study showing that Fox viewers are the paragons of knowledge. You would think that Liberty University or Oral Roberts would be jumping on that research treasure trove.

[-] 1 points by daveindenver (36) 2 years ago

Maybe they don't want to manufacture news based on their bias.

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

Or maybe the study has been performed and the "investigators" were disappointed with the result.

[-] 0 points by justhefacts (1275) 2 years ago

Funny. It appears that the Fox viewers were informed enough to KNOW that the Egyptian people did NOT successfully overthrow their government-even though they DID get rid of Mubarak. That OWS found it necessary to plead for continued support for Egypt because they are still being oppressed and killed by their "regime" proves that OWS knows the same thing.

That you, and/or the article you quoted, insinuated that Fox viewers are the least informed BUT didn't bother to quote the actual questions VERBATIM,-and chose instead to insinuate that different questions were asked- should lead anyone to values the TRUTH to question your integrity along with your motives.

If the TRUTH was so damning on its own, you wouldn't need to spin it would you?

[-] 1 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

People that watch Fox news are just asking to be dumb. Why can't you accept that? Bad information is like dropping acid before visiting the planetarium. It makes things really interesting until you try to eat your arm off trying to find the way out.

The Republican Primary disaster is the outgrowth of Fox news. Bad information supported a terrible ideology which favored bad candidates who spewed an even worse ideology that bred the inbreeds you now see running to be the Republican candidate for President.

So, Fox news will inevitably lead to an inbreeding deficiency. Isn't that, alone, enough to dissuade you from watching it.....

Earnest T. Bass, you put your pants back on.

[-] 0 points by justhefacts (1275) 2 years ago

Because you have given no evidence that supports your assertion that Fox News is the root of all evil. I suspect you hated republicans long before Fox News became a prominent media outlet.

I'd love for you to detail-as in offer evidence/proof-of some of the "bad information" being given on/by Fox News. Surely if their lies and distortions are so obvious, you should be able to put together a substantial list for me to examine in mere minutes.

See, even though you think I'm some kind of blind sheep, I'm pretty much refusing to believe anything you say unless I already know it to be true, or you prove it to be true. I am much more a goat in that respect, and I do it across the board-be it you or Fox News or anyone else. It's ironic that you want to paint me as a blind follower of whatever I read/hear while at the same time you're angry that I won't blindly follow YOUR spin.

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

Oh come on, you know your family tree is a straight line. You've been watching so much Fox news you think asphalt is a rectum disorder.

I'm just amazed you can still type....hell, I'm amazed you can read.

[-] 0 points by justhefacts (1275) 2 years ago

So. No evidence huh? Ad hominem attacks are always the first indication that one has run out of valid arguments.

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

I am just trying to keep you busy here so that you don't bother other topics.

[-] 0 points by justhefacts (1275) 2 years ago

Didn't work.

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

So, now you're giving two word answers? I was getting used to your diatribes. It's not pleasant being strung along, it is Newhouse?

[-] 0 points by justhefacts (1275) 2 years ago

Just keeping things fresh between us dear.

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

OK, honey.

[-] 0 points by justhefacts (1275) 2 years ago

Now where's that evidence I asked for? That would certainly be a pleasant and refreshing change of pace with you.

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

I'm working on solving the housing crisis.

[-] 0 points by justhefacts (1275) 2 years ago

Found some vacant caves near yours?

[-] 1 points by WakeUp2011 (12) 2 years ago

Spreading the truth is crucial to creating the world we want to see. We need to wake up as many people as we can to get real change. Those that don't want to wake up can stay asleep. Keep spreading the word. Here's a start..

http://youtu.be/iRyjzCa7_AE

Research. Educate. Grow Awareness.

[-] 1 points by Edgewaters (912) 2 years ago

They needed to do a poll? [scratches head]

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

They had to explain to them what a poll was.

[-] 1 points by tr289 (916) from Chicago, IL 2 years ago

Fox News makes me rethink my stance on the Freedom of Speech. They are the perfect example of the evils of Freedom of Speech.

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

People just do not value reality anymore.....It's like the Romans going to gladiator matches while the city burned.

[-] 1 points by EndTheFed214 (113) 2 years ago

NPR blows

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

And you're someone who knows something about blowing.

[-] 1 points by EndTheFed214 (113) 2 years ago

yeah blowing insulation (which sucks) thats work its hard but in return you make money to feed your family. what a novel idea

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

Wow. You have a job that you hate, that pays little, and you do it just so you can feed your family. You must really want to keep things on the Libertarian pathway they're heading.

I just finished an attic space over our garage and I found out that they had never put insulation between below the floor. What do you guys do about that? When I lived in Colorado, they would literally cut holes between each of the joists and blow the stuff in, but this is a pretty big span and the damn room is freezing. Do you still do it that way? Would you have to cut numerous holes in the drywall above the garage?

[-] 1 points by EndTheFed214 (113) 2 years ago

i am a libertarian i support RonPaul.

But peace bro i dont wanna argue

[-] 1 points by EndTheFed214 (113) 2 years ago

when we are spraying attics we use loose spray and just fill the cavites. but when we spray the walls u cut holes and fill it like you said. but we usally start on houses that re being built so we spray wet insulation into the cavties then they cover it with drywall. unless the whole attic is in a relative small space you would have to cut holes in the walls then fill it then fix it.

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

Ya, I did the walls, but I just never would have thought the original owners would have put floor joists and a floor without insulating there. But, it sounds like we'll be cutting some holes. Thanks for your help.

[-] 1 points by InfoWarrior23 (6) 2 years ago

Sooooo, cnn, msnbs, abc, bbc, npr and even your local news station gives you all of the truth you need to know in the world of today???

If you believe this than all hope for humanity is lost. Its not one media source that is to blam, it is ALL. They are all EQUALLY feeding you lies. In fact cnn, msnbs, abc, bbc, npr and even your local news station gives the same exact lies that Faux news does, just in a different form. WAKE UP!!!

[-] 1 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

I get my news from THE VIEW. Don't tell me those ladies aren't objective you sexist bastard.

You may want to back up on the caffeine there Kipper.

[-] 1 points by Michman (2) from Saline, MI 2 years ago

Are you smarter than a 5th grader, Jay walking, and that toothless idiot that shows up in front of every news camera...makes you proud to be an American doesn't it. Thanks for lightening my mood.

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

Actually, I'm a 4th grader who is waiting for one of my molars to come in. Molars refers to a type of tooth. I guess you are just a stupid bully aren't you. I always wondered what happened to the woosie kids when they grow up.

[-] 1 points by stuartchase (861) 2 years ago

If you haven't been here, you're all uninfomred:

http://occupywallst.org/forum/make-a-stand-join-the-clan/

[-] 1 points by jacqpec (13) 2 years ago

No matter what people watch. 40% of the people are below average. Test the fox viewers IQ that might be interesting.

[-] 1 points by zoom6000 (430) from St Petersburg, FL 2 years ago

BBC was good source until owned by Murdoch., this is good source Aljazeera.com in english

[-] 1 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

BBC is not owned by Murdoch.

[Removed]

[-] 1 points by ZenDogTroll (13032) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

Occupy Wall Street leaders are not in support of any political party.

We have leaders? and no one told me?

: (

; P

: D

[-] 1 points by melbel61 (113) 2 years ago

well this is a poll and depending upon whom you poll and the questions you ask will help to determine the answers, that's why I never trust polls (even if they are of my liking)....my family watches both CNN and Fox and read the WSJ and the NYT, and we are well informed on the issues.

[-] 1 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

This was reported by Forbes.....not a liberal rag by any means.

The reason they poll a large number of individuals is so that the power of the results is increased. That's a statistical term.....but, basically, a poll like this is not one where you can steer the participants. Fox news viewers are simply misinformed and uninformed.

[-] 1 points by melbel61 (113) 2 years ago

I am neither....but then again I didn't take the poll.

[-] -1 points by justhefacts (1275) 2 years ago

Not really. All this survey shows is that people who live in New Jersey who watch Fox news aren't as up-to-date as their peers.

[-] 1 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

You don't find that troubling?

Perhaps you think our economic system is meritocratic.

[-] -1 points by justhefacts (1275) 2 years ago

Do I find it troubling that some people in New Jersey aren't aware of whether or not the Egyptians or Syrians overthrew their regimes? Are you kidding me? I'm sure I won't be able to sleep nights knowing that! Please. Only 45% of respondents to a poll knew what the letters GOP stand for.

But if you're so troubled by what the American people "don't know", you've got bigger fish to fry it seems. According to a poll released today conducted by USA Today and Gallup -"Though the majority of Americans surveyed didn’t know or care much about the protests, the poll found disapproval of the protests had increased from 20% to 31%."

http://www.politickerny.com/2011/11/21/poll-most-americans-dont-know-what-occupy-wall-street-is-11212011/

[-] 2 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

I would be troubled if they had only looked at Fox news alone without the multiple other sources as comparison. That is the nature of science....you sample data and see how they compare.

What was evident here was that Fox news turns you into an idiot.

You probably watch Fox news and don't realize that you are an idiot, and it is sometimes a blessing to be ignorant of the fact that you are ignorant, but our democracy is placed in jeopardy by people who would elect somebody like Herman Cain......so, don't defend something that is not benign. Fix it.

[-] -1 points by justhefacts (1275) 2 years ago

That's just it-here's how the question was phrased in the survey- "Americans now have more ways than ever to get their news about politics and world affairs. I'm going to read you a list of news resources. As I read the list, just say "yes" if you got news from that source anytime in the past week." (list of news outlets were then read aloud)

The question was NOT-"What do you consider to be your most prevalent news source?" or even "How often to you read/listen to your preferred news source"?-Just "say yes if you got news from that source anytime in the past week". The question allowed for respondents to reply "yes" MULTIPLE times. This means if they read or listened to Fox News for 5 minutes during the past week-it COUNTED. It doesn't mean that Fox is their PRIMARY news source, or that they are even regular viewers/readers-it wasn't that specific.

That YOU got all excited about this poll-one that freely admits that it's "overall margin of error is 3.5+- percent. The margin of error for subgroups is larger and varies depending on the size of that subgroup"-just shows how desperate you are to convince people about your point of view-even if the "evidence" you use doesn't actually say what you want it to say.

[-] 1 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

The more they watched Fox News the dumber they were.

[-] 0 points by daveindenver (36) 2 years ago

That just doesn't compute, that would mean that Keith Olberman would need to watch Fox news 24/7, that would be the only way to explain his stupidity.

[-] 1 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

You're arguing that one magnet of stupidity excuses one supermagnet of stupidity.

You may not like Olbermann, or other liberals, but when I think of pundits, I try to keep a score card.

Olbermann was correct about the Bush tax cuts...they didn't yield prosperity and they sunk us deeply into debt.

Olbermann was correct that Bush was using 9-11 in order to invade Iraq.

Olbermann was correct that the Bush administration was covering up what a mess the occupation was......and how ill equipped our forces were for a guerrilla.

You can go on and on with this.....my Lord, The Dixie Chicks were more correct than Fox news.

No wonder these viewers scored so poorly, they've been listening to people who are always wrong.

[-] 0 points by daveindenver (36) 2 years ago

Give me a break, you come from such a far left view of the world that anything that a complete idiot like Olberman say would make sense. MSNBC is a complete farce (I know, they fired Oblberman and he now works for Gore and is actually part of the 1% you abhor). I actually watch several sources of news, CNN, Fox, NBC, and NPR (listen to them at least 3 hours a day). Don;t talk down to me about being informed. I know that is the typical liberal strategy, but it fails to impress. Most conservative commentators were right about Obama, he has been a complete failure. Great politician, but completely absent as an actual leader. He's done a great job of paying back his supporters (Solyndra/Siga/SunPower, et. al) but that is his only accomplishment. I didn't like Bush but would take him back in a second compared to Obama.

[-] 1 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

Then you are a fool.

[-] 0 points by justhefacts (1275) 2 years ago

It doesn't say that. It doesn't say HOW MUCH they watched any of the forms of news.

[-] 1 points by FrankieJ (86) 2 years ago

Ironic that puff considers himself so "well informed" yet he refuses to acknowledge very clear limitations in the poll where they don't match up with his conclusions from an obviously superficial reading of the survey. ; )

[-] 0 points by justhefacts (1275) 2 years ago

I prefer to think that he's simply displaying one of the most common personality characteristics associated with narcissism. :-)

He'd prefer that everyone here was only as "well informed" as he allowed them to be.

[-] 1 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

Read the study....The More They Watched Fox News The Stupider They Became.

[-] -1 points by justhefacts (1275) 2 years ago

I read the study and the questions. Did you?

At least Fox viewers don't use the word "stupider".

[-] 1 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

Actually, stupider is a word. I was trying not to talk down to you.

[-] 1 points by justhefacts (1275) 2 years ago

That society has deteriorated to the point where the casual use of "stupider" is acceptable WILL keep me up nights! You finally found something that causes me great social distress.

[-] 1 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

Ya, that and gay marriage.....It's going to destroy our planet!

[-] 1 points by justhefacts (1275) 2 years ago

I'm hoping for a freakin big, fiery, meteor.

[-] 1 points by mjbento (74) 2 years ago
[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

First Power, Then Change.

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

Fox News wanted so much for Newt to prevail.....but he just keeps talking and talking.

Newt is a scary little shit and, if he succeeds in gaining the nomination, Fox news will have effectively taken over, entirely, the Republican party.

[-] 0 points by danmi (66) 2 years ago

NPR is libtard trash, everyone knows that

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

Then by libtard, I presume you are trying to say "informed."

Really, the ebonics they are teaching these young conservatives these days. Almost sounds like a whale trying to fart through it's blow hole.

[-] 0 points by foreeverLeft (-264) 2 years ago

It really depends on your definition of informed. NYT readers, MSNBC viewers and dare I say, the fine folks at Farleigh Dickinson University in New Jersey all subscribe unquestioningly to the liberal narrative, Fox viewers don't. So naturally, the leftish folk consider them uninformed.

How many stories has the lamestream media done investigating the administration's horror show, Fast and Furious? None, zip, nada, yet American federal agents and 200 Mexicans are still dead.

You of the left live in a dream world where Fox lies, Bush lies, the banks caused our financial problems, you can never allow reality to infect the narrative. That's why you want to ban "trolls" so badly, they say things that might make you think and we just can't have that.

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

i'm a lefty. i'd be glad to debate any of those things with you. i won't do so under party lines tho. however i think you goal is to stir the pot. if you are interested in getting your point across, please continue.

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

Doesn't it occur to you that the existence of a subspecies that here are termed "trolls" may indicate that there are identifiable characteristics to those that inhabit this forum just to stir up shit?

[-] 0 points by Tinhorn (285) 2 years ago

So, 80-90% of the American population is wrong? I ask because in every time slot, Fox is killing every other news channel. I personally can't stand any of these for profit news agencies but numbers don't lie when it comes to viewership.

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

Americans once condoned the enslavement of a race. They once eradicated native populations in the name of progress. They once viewed medicare as socialism.

And, they once watched Fox News.

[-] 0 points by Tinhorn (285) 2 years ago

That's the best you could come up with to dispute facts? You can't say they once watched Fox News because they obviously still are.

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

No, I posted a scientific study showing that Fox viewers were fucking morons.

You are just a bored troll.

Is your life so pathetic that you inhabit a page like this putting your one cent in. My Lord, quit wasting time here, work a little harder, and you might be able to afford that double wide you've been dreaming of.

[-] 0 points by Tinhorn (285) 2 years ago

By the way, I'm pretty comfortable in my 2600 (actually 2625 but I figured I would round down for you) square foot home that I actually pay my mortgage on every month. And if this page is something so bad to inhabit, why are you here?

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

And, I'm very comfortable in my 8500 square foot home.....yes, really. Fuck you trollbite. You will be assimilated into the puff-borg.

[-] 0 points by Tinhorn (285) 2 years ago

lol, you prove so many points about this organization, lt's way to easy.

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

And, yet, you have posted here almost religiously. You must be lonely in that 2625 square foot home.

You don't have to be poor to desire real change.

As I have said on this forum many times, I do live in the presence of mine enemies. I think that, if you understood how the 1% view those who are not, you would adopt a slightly more supportive stance on what should be done.

This is not the movement that I think will change the world, but it's all we've got for right now.

[-] 0 points by Tinhorn (285) 2 years ago

And as I have said hundreds of times on here, this organization has allowed itself to be high jacked by so many different out for there agenda groups that most of America wont touch it now. If it had stuck to the core issues of corruption in government and corporate lobbyist, I think this would have been much more successful but now that the anti everything that that group doesn't believe in has sunk there teeth in, it's a loss.

[-] 0 points by Tinhorn (285) 2 years ago

Yup, I read that one but obviously by reading all of the threads that continue on here, it is not the issue of the day anymore.

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

That is why you stagger your responses so that it can stay near the top.

[-] 0 points by Tinhorn (285) 2 years ago

Huh?

[-] 0 points by Tinhorn (285) 2 years ago

So 90% of America are fucking morons and you are the smart one? If you read my post moron, you would have seen that I already said I can't stand any of those hypicritical retards on either side of the spectrum. Funny how the "99%" representation on here really only seems to want to serve there best interest.

[-] 0 points by tomcat68 (298) 2 years ago

stupid dummy fox using big werdz to spread lies. didn't they hear about Hope and Change?

Yes we Can Yes we Can. Whaaaaaaaa I wish I could just kiss Obamas feet right now.

gosh

[-] 1 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

I bet you loved 4th grade, best three years of your life.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

He's just more proof of the veracity of the OP.

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

OP?

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Original Post.

[-] 1 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

Thanks. You know, the sad part, is that when I want to have a conversation on a serious topic, I have to put all of these "troll magnet" forum topics back up on top so that the nutcases go there and stay away from my serious posts.

That is why you see "The Republican Kids were the Kids Who Kissed The Popular Kids Asses" or "The United States of RonPaulistan" whenever I put on a new topic.

It's like the British using "Foil" to hide their bombers from German radar by overwhelming the screens with false echos.

Crazy, but effective.

[-] 0 points by tomcat68 (298) 2 years ago

Racist!

we wouldn't have any problems if everyone would just believe in Obama.

as the sun rises in the East tomorrow, get on your knees and put your face to the floor and if everyone does the mantra Change will come.

" OooooooBaaaaaaaMaaaaaaaa.... OooooBaaaaaaMaaaaaaaa"

repeat until Allah gives you a vision.

it is a vision of the Son rising over the West.

it is also the campaign symbol Obama used in 2008

ooo did I misspell Sun? who knows

[-] 1 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

My god, how did they lift up the rock that you crawled out from under?

I have always noticed that conservative hate always arises from economic frustration and/or lack or good sex. So, whichever it is, you have my pity.

[-] 1 points by tomcat68 (298) 2 years ago

ahhh, yes I must be hateful to point out your foolishness,

I wonder if you have ever put a shirt on backwards, realized it and refused to correct it. that thought to correct a mistake having been produced from some hidden "Troll" logic in your brain or the Opposition.

Forgive my interruption, there is no place for rational thought here.

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

I think that if you are unable to say what you mean, then you are unable to mean what you say.

And you have great difficulty is saying what you mean....sorry there pussycat, but you just don't make sense and you seem not to like those who do.

[-] 1 points by tomcat68 (298) 2 years ago

ehh, maybe so.

have another Puff for me. maybe I'll get smarter

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

I stopped at 6962, not 6269.

[-] 0 points by OWSWhat (66) 2 years ago

Fox new uniformed. "Hey maybe that is why they are number one in the ratings" eh dumb libtard, Obama sheeps.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Such intelligent language.

FLAKESnews viewer?

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

Hu Hu. Is that you Earl?

[-] 0 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article7545.htm

Israel Is Spying In And On The U.S.? Part 1

BRIT HUME, HOST: It has been more than 16 years since a civilian working for the Navy was charged with passing secrets to Israel. Jonathan Pollard pled guilty to conspiracy to commit espionage and is serving a life sentence. At first, Israeli leaders claimed Pollard was part of a rogue operation, but later took responsibility for his work.

Now Fox News has learned some U.S. investigators believe that there are Israelis again very much engaged in spying in and on the U.S., who may have known things they didn't tell us before September 11. Fox News correspondent Carl Cameron has details in the first of a four-part series.

Published: 12/12/01 FOX News. Part 1 of a 4 part series: Part 2- Part 3 - Part 4 These items have since been removed from the FOX News web site:

See the site for videos and transcripts:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article7545.htm

[-] 1 points by tomcat68 (298) 2 years ago

countrys spying on other countrys?

When did this start. the Nerve of them. grrrr

[-] 0 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

I recall a security briefing I attended one day telling us about the Chinese threat. They were basically saying, if you are Chinese, or even part Chinese, you are suspect. Imagine they had targeted Israel, not China. Can you imagine the hew and cry?

The evidence surrounding the attacks of 9/11 points to Israeli Intelligence. I'm not saying that 9/11 was the will of the Israeli people as a whole. Israeli intelligence is as much an arm of the International Bankster Cartel as is the CIA. People really need to wake up to the dangers posed by these secret armies and secret police forces manipulating the masses clandestinely.

Until about 5 years ago, I though all of this was just "conspiracy theory" concocted in the over active imaginations of a few paranoids. Now I am convinced that dark forces are at work, everywhere.

[-] 1 points by tomcat68 (298) 2 years ago

Israeli Intelligence?

Israeli Intelligence somehow commanded or persuaded 19 Muslim Jihadist to attack the US?

or they were really Israelis uncover as terrorists?

I'm confused

[-] 0 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

The hijackers were paper cutouts. They are fictions created around the identities of real people who had nothing to do with the attacks. The planes were flown by remote control. The phone calls were faked. When one actually take the time to examine the evidence the entire evil fairytale crumbles.

[-] 1 points by tomcat68 (298) 2 years ago

yea, you are probably right.

in fact i'm not even sure if the twin towers ever really fell. I think it was a staged Hollywood event so that evil war monger Bush could attack a peaceful religion.

kinda like that moon landing hoax of the late 60s

[-] 0 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

Notice the cloth behind me. That was the curtain in my bedroom the day Armstrong set foot on the moon. I put it there because I wanted to be sure no one took me for a moon-landing skeptic.

http://vehme.blogspot.com/2011/11/911-ten-years-gone.html

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

Will look into it.

Why can't someone HACK FOX NEWS and display all of it's lies to the world?

[-] 0 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

I don't really worry about Fox. I don't seem them as much different from NPR or Democracy Now, etc. None of them carry the most important stories.

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

If you don't worry about Fox News, then you don't understand how much the world has changed since before the time of conservative talk Radio and Fox News.

Around 30 years ago, everyone got their news and....depending on experience or political leanings.....interpreted and formed their opinions. Fox made it possible for those with certain political leanings to hear only the news....and the opinions....that they desired.

As Demosthenes once noted:

Nothing is easier than self-deceit. For what each man wishes, that he also believes to be true.

[-] 0 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

No, you don't understand how manipulated the masses were before fox existed.

http://m.youtube.com/?rdm=4oox72k27&reload=3#/watch?v=wWA-TXJmeQo

[-] 0 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

This is a psyop, right?

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

I'm all about psyop's.

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[-] -1 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

Actually, Fox has done some reporting bolder than anything on NPR. For example, the report on Comverse Infosys and Amdocs.

[-] 1 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

With all the manure, there must be a pony in there somewhere.

[-] -1 points by mrjim1 (21) 2 years ago

Your idea to shut down Fox News is rediculas. That you have that on your agenda speaks volumes for your movement. Stopping Fox News is as sound as "Kill the bad news bearer". To say Fox news is all bad, is to say main stream news is all good. If you would have your movement work, you can't have any muligans. That you didn't stop Fox today has set your agenda back a lot. Now America sees the weakness there. What you planed for today was nothing more that a book burning. We all know how that story ended.

[-] 1 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

Rediculas? Why didn't you just try and spell redonculous?

You are the reason I am against Fox News....it just isn't good for your brain.

As far as "shutting down" Fox News, that will take someone a lot more persuasive and proximal to NYC than myself. Again, it's like herding cats, and I never thought that 10,000 people would listen to humble me.....but, maybe a few did, and maybe a few more will tomorrow......and after a few false starts, everyone will see the logic of it.

In the mean time, perhaps you shouldn't be watching ANY television. Pick up a book.

[-] -1 points by StudsDupa (22) 2 years ago

I watch segments of both Fox News and MSNBC on my Ipad, and various news programs on TV. I also listen to Rush Limbaugh and NPR as well as other radio shows, and I watch the Sunday news programs. I also read the news on Google News, various websites, and have a paper subscription to the Economist. If Fairleigh Dickinson called me, where would they place me in their survey?

[-] -1 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

As someone who needs to get a life.

[-] 1 points by StudsDupa (22) 2 years ago

Sorry about the late reply, but I guess I have some semblance of a life.

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

Boooooyyyyyyaaaaaaaaahhhhhh!

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

StudsDupa, did you get a chance to watch the debate last night? These guys have made the mistake of watching too much Fox news. I've never seen a more misguided bunch.....except for Gingrich. That boy's slicker than cum on a gold tooth.

[-] 1 points by StudsDupa (22) 2 years ago

No I did not; I do not have cable. If it was broadcast over the air, I probably would not watch it. I try to keep up with current events, but I can not view each and every program. I guess I have something of a life :-)

[-] -1 points by EndTheFed214 (113) 2 years ago

dude NPR blows, "today on all things considered" in that little voice!

LOL but hey most of you are commies and like state run media so go you! you will get what you deserve.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

I can only take so much of that voice but, this right here: http://www.wfmt.com/main.taf?p=31,2

and this right here: http://www.bigcontact.com/latw

is the shizzle. Public Radio rocks.

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

And you are who you deserve to be.

[-] 1 points by EndTheFed214 (113) 2 years ago

lol why do u keep replying to my post? I tend to agree I am who I deserve to be. I am blessed to have money and not have to worry so much. its nice to work hard and make money. But the FED is trying to take everything away and start new wars. we need to fight

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

Start worrying. People who think they have money and don't have to worry so much are usually not so good at keeping that money for very long. Have you bought that lake house yet? That is the hallmark of too much money looking for a bad place to get spent.....and Italian roadsters.

[-] 1 points by EndTheFed214 (113) 2 years ago

lol buddy my money was put into physical gold in 95. the investment has more than tripled. its in a secure location. with my guns and food. im good im gucci lol. your a troll on the interent.

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

If you put your money into gold in 1995 then you truly are a damned fool.....or a Luddite.

[-] -1 points by justhefacts (1275) 2 years ago

Hey....weren't you hosting a huge protest at FOX news today to shut down their broadcasting? Um......didn't hear a word about it on ANY news....

[-] 1 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

Ya, it's like herding cats.....but, to he that perseveres belongs the world.

[-] -1 points by justhefacts (1275) 2 years ago

If you wish to own a world full of cats, then I wish you all the best. Would you then be "the 1%" who owns everything?

[-] 1 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

I'm in the .05%.....but I came from the bottom 30%. I had a lot of breaks and I want everyone to have the opportunities that I did.

[-] 0 points by KirkVanHouten (123) 2 years ago

Start by giving away enough money to at least put you at 75%.

[-] 1 points by daveindenver (36) 2 years ago

Go talk to Michael Moore and Alex Baldwin. Those hypocrites will surely help you out.

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

I began estate planning about five years ago. I used to donate a great deal to the Salvation Army......they ran football and basketball leagues where I grew up.....but, in 2006, they began strongly encouraging a hiring policy of Christians only. That left me without a charity. Since then, I've helped with a few scholarship endowments and some local programs. I do not, however, donate significantly to my Church.....it would just go towards the building fund.

[Removed]

[-] -2 points by justhefacts (1275) 2 years ago

What if people don't WANT the opportunities you had? What if they want to do their own thing, their own way? As bitter and nasty and paranoid and over the top as you are here, I don't view your life as "successful" in any meaningful way.

[-] 2 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

You are not read on this forum unless you are provocative. In addition, if you place troll magnet posts, you keep them off of the other people's posts who don't want to argue with them.

Opportunities are not mandates. You are free to choose your own path.....but your generation will not have the options mine did.

[-] -2 points by justhefacts (1275) 2 years ago

No generation has the same options as the ones before and after it. The world is not static, things change. My parents didn't have HALF of the options I had, and I wouldn't have wanted to live their lives either. Each generation has it's challenges to overcome, learn from, grow from.

[-] 1 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

Ya, so why are you trying to change the world then?

[-] -2 points by justhefacts (1275) 2 years ago

I'm just trying to find out how YOU intend to change it, and then see whether or not I agree with your intentions. I'm not signing onto any movement before I know what it wants or where it's going. The majority of Americans won't either.

[-] 2 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

The minimum wage should be a living wage. All imports should be traced and NONE allowed into this company unless the related factories, mines, etc. comply with safety, environmental, and wage standards. We should no longer allow the "race to the bottom" by foreign and international corporations that prey upon desperate people and our own desire for cheap products. Pay a few more cents for that pair of underwear and you may end up saving the world.

Constitutional Amendments affirming collective bargaining a right, the availability of health care a right, and social security a function of our democracy. Powerful forces have aligned themselves in discrediting and destroying each of these aspects of our society. Clean air and water, as well as food safety, should be regarded as basic rights and should be enumerated as Constitutional rights.

Student Loans should be treated as any other debt during a bankruptcy. They should not be an endless yoke to those who chose to invest in their future.

Reconciliation bills should be fashioned by representatives of both parties.

Representatives should be barred from any form of lobbying for a span of five years following the end of their tenure.

The Equal Time requirements of media should be reinstated and frank errors, misrepresentations, and lies in reporting of the news should again require sanction. The news media serves a vital function in our Democracy and it is rotting on the vine. News has become entertainment and it must again be treated as a service to the public. Newspapers and investigative journalism are dying and our federal government must adopt every incentive, tax break, or subsidy to preserve them. I cannot stress this one enough. If our ability to find truth is allowed to perish, our ability to govern ourselves is lost.

We must once again be a nation of builders. At the end of World War II, returning GI’s were faced with a bleak job market. Our federal government anticipated their plight and, in order to shrink number of excess workers, offered the GI bill. This insight allowed millions, who otherwise would lack adequate financial resources, to attend college. This investment bred a generation of entrepreneurs, engineers, intellectuals, and scientists. The investment was returned tenfold. We are once again faced with a crisis that has left millions of Americans without work and unqualified for a transitioning economy. Our federal government should again take measures to shrink the surplus of workers without viable employment in our economy. A national endowment should be created that invests in what our country needs most; engineers, entrepreneurs, and experts (“the three ‘E’s’”). Scholarships, grants, and generous financial aid should be granted to students participating in approved programs advancing the three “E’s.” The effect would be a new generation of professionals proficient in science and the business opportunities of the future. A wise investment in our future will occur while abating, somewhat, the plight of the unemployed.

[-] 1 points by flip (6775) 2 years ago

i agree with most of what you say - arguing with some of these idiots is a waste of time - i do it too often. one thing i would say to you is that the world is running out of all the things it needs to continue as we do today. copper, oil water - everything - so our agenda should be to use what we have to reconfigure the world to be sustainable - if you read buckminster fulller's book "spaceship earth" (from 1969!) you will realize that some people figured it out long ago - keep at it - we have a long way to go!

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

Yes, the world is aligning along resource blocs.....almost as it did along imperial blocs in 1937 through 1940.

[-] 1 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

Force all 501's to divulge their contributors during (by email link) their advertisements.

Require that all derivative contracts be codified, standardized, divided in units, and traded on an exchange. Additionally, require all financial institutions to completely reveal such contracts and counterparties to shareholders.

Require all medicare payments to pharmaceutical and medical appliance companies be below or at par with numbers agreed upon by these companies with foreign national health care plans. (ie. Medicare and Medicare D recipients should pay the Canadian rate and not a penny more).

No corporation should be allowed the ability of concentrated influence over our political process. ALL corporate donations to campaigns should cease and contact with representatives or their staff should be commensurate with that of individual constituents. Essentially, all corporate contact with government should be written and lobbyist should be turned into opinion writers. If the supreme court stands in the way, then enumerate the language in a Constitutional Amendment and lets have a vote. Lobbyists should not be allowed to donate to campaigns and lobbyists should have no direct role in writing legislation.

A military draft should be reinstated, but should require equal numbers of draftees from each 10 percent increments pf income levels in our population. This would provide a military that is a crossection of our population, but would mean that those who had parents in the top 10 and 20% would be more likely asked to serve. I think that alone would place a damper on any more stupid wars (I could be wrong). But, the powerful don't usually send to kids to war. Also, it would revive some semblance service by all to our country and shared sacrifice. It's simply disgusting that many GI's have rotated 4 tours through Iraq or Afghanistan, or have been "stopped out." This can simply never happen again.

All trade pacts should be ended and transformed into a system of import and export certificates. Such certificates would be issued for both imports and exports. If a distributor desired to import 1 million dollars worth of widgets, then he would be required to produce a counterbalancing export certificate for the transaction. These certificates would be unitized and traded upon an exchange. The result would quickly be fair trade. Think of America as a large, landed, estate. Now we, the gentry, are spending more each year than we produce and, to make up for the shortfall, we are selling off pieces of our estate. Eventually, we landed gentry are left as renters on what was once our own estate. That is America. If we continue to carry yearly, massive, trade imbalances, we are gradually selling off a piece of our wealth and earning capacity. Abolish the electoral college and replace the election of our President with the popular vote. The electoral college has become an enormously sophisticated method of gaming the system and allows disproportionate voting representation by “swing” states. Every vote should count and the current system alienates voters in “non-swing” states.

[-] 0 points by justhefacts (1275) 2 years ago

According to the Social Security Administration, "In 2010 total wages and salaries came to $6,009,831,055,912.11.That’s a bit more than $6 trillion."

Our current National Debt is over $15 trillion dollars. If we collected every dime earned by EVERYONE in this country for the next three years (added interest on debt) we'd barely be able to pay it off. But that's only IF our government stopped spending even ONE dime for that three years as well.

How exactly do you expect to come up with the $$$$ to pay for these scholarships, grants, and generous financial aid packages? Where would this national endowment come from? Taking EVERY DIME the "wealthy" earn every year wouldn't even come close as even taking EVERYTHING we ALL earn can't even catch us up at the rate we're spending.

We can never PROSPER as a country as long as we are sliding further into debt. They can only take so much-and even if they take it all-we're screwed at our current rate of spending. And here you are demanding that we spend MORE MORE MORE!!!

[-] 3 points by flip (6775) 2 years ago

you have a lot to learn - the military takes $.56 of each tax dollar - we could go on from there but i doubt that you will be able to process the facts - "just the facts" - right. the debt is not the problem - do a bit of reading instead of watching glen beck. time to learn about money and the economic system - read about the populism of the 1890's or read "debt the first 5000 years" - educate your self or go away - plenty of money in the richest country the world has ever seen - no one comes close - and we don't have the $ to educate our children or feed those who are hungry - look at the tax rates of the 1960's and then look at the hours worked and income disparity - think - i know it is hard but stop pushing the capitalist line - do what fdr and keynes did if you like - save capitalism from itself - read about the depression - how did we get out - deficit spending building tanks , then blowing them up in france etc and building more - sound like a good idea!!!!

[-] -3 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

FDR was a scum-sucking traitor!

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/pearl/www.geocities.com/Pentagon/6315/pearl.html

In so much as there is one underlying problem, that problem is the International Bankster Cartel. Money IS debt. Read the documentation explaining how the Federal Reserve Bankster Swindle works. http://www.federalreserve.gov/pf/pf.htm They "trade in balances". A balance is a debt.

[-] 2 points by flip (6775) 2 years ago

The 40 hour week is a result of industrialism. - this is a pretty weird statement - yes farming is a different work week but we had industrialization long before the 40 hour week - organizing and activism got the 40 hour week. you seem to be educated on some subjects - you should know this. if you are saying that the power elite is not to be trusted ok - no argument. fdr for sure represents the forces that ows is fighting against - he was a capitalist and a member of the elite - did not believe in real democracy but i still don't think you are moving the discussion in the right direction

[-] 2 points by flip (6775) 2 years ago

i have read all of that stuff - no doubt that the fed is run by the power elite (c wright mill's term) for the power elite - if you learn about the populist movement in the late 1800's they went through all of the same things we are talking about now. read william greider on the subject. doesn't change the fact that money is debt - it is an iou passed from one person to the next. more on that if you read graeber - fdr was a traitor for sure - to his class but both fdr and keynes said that they were trying to save capitalism and they did - read about the 20's and 30's and the commie and anarchist organizing (many jews in those movements!) - they got us the 40 hour week and the week end - you do like that don't you - well the 40 hour week is gone - and for some, so is the weekend. as to pearl harbor - i wouldn't put it past them to do such a thing but so what - what does that mean for what ows is trying to do - or what direction the country should be going. if this forum has one job it is to educate people about what is happening and why. to think about what can be done to make this country and world a better place. i don't think you are helping but with a little reading and thinking - maybe!

[-] -3 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

The 40 hour week is a result of industrialism. Before then, most people worked the land for a living. The economy and life style were far different.

As for FDR and Pearl Harbor, my mother's grandfather and uncle were on Corregidor and Bataan, respectively. Both died in Japanese POW camps. The prewar plan was to get the US engaged with the Japanese because that would pull Germany in by their mutual defense treaty with Japan. Once engaged, Germany was to be the focus of the effort. He abandoned the Americans in the Philippines with malice aforethought.

It matters because the same forces that FDR represented are the ones creating the problems that OWS is trying to address. First a man in a mask beats you and robs you. While you are lying on the ground battered and bleeding a pleasant and kind man comes to help you too your feet and dress your wounds. Never mind that they are both the same man.

[-] 1 points by an0n (764) 2 years ago

Rosenfeldt was a "pawn"?

Roosevelt must have been. Look:

What was our hope in 1932? Above all other things the American people wanted peace. They wanted peace of mind instead of gnawing fear.

First, they sought escape from the personal terror which had stalked them for three years. They wanted the peace that comes from security in their homes: safety for their savings, permanence in their jobs, a fair profit from their enterprise.

Next, they wanted peace in the community, the peace that springs from the ability to meet the needs of community life: schools, playgrounds, parks, sanitation, highways--those things which are expected of solvent local government. They sought escape from disintegration and bankruptcy in local and state affairs.

They also sought peace within the Nation: protection of their currency, fairer wages, the ending of long hours of toil, the abolition of child labor, the elimination of wild-cat speculation, the safety of their children from kidnappers.

And, finally, they sought peace with other Nations--peace in a world of unrest. The Nation knows that I hate war, and I know that the Nation hates war.

I submit to you a record of peace; and on that record a well-founded expectation for future peace--peace for the individual, peace for the community, peace for the Nation, and peace with the world.

Tonight I call the roll--the roll of honor of those who stood with us in 1932 and still stand with us today.

Written on it are the names of millions who never had a chance --men at starvation wages, women in sweatshops, children at looms.

Written on it are the names of those who despaired, young men and young women for whom opportunity had become a will-o'-the-wisp.

Written on it are the names of farmers whose acres yielded only bitterness, business men whose books were portents of disaster, home owners who were faced with eviction, frugal citizens whose savings were insecure.

Written there in large letters are the names of countless other Americans of all parties and all faiths, Americans who had eyes to see and hearts to understand, whose consciences were burdened because too many of their fellows were burdened, who looked on these things four years ago and said, "This can be changed. We will change it."

We still lead that army in 1936. They stood with us then because in 1932 they believed. They stand with us today because in 1936 they know. And with them stand millions of new recruits who have come to know.

Their hopes have become our record.

We have not come this far without a struggle and I assure you we cannot go further without a struggle.

For twelve years this Nation was afflicted with hear-nothing, see-nothing, do-nothing Government. The Nation looked to Government but the Government looked away. Nine mocking years with the golden calf and three long years of the scourge! Nine crazy years at the ticker and three long years in the breadlines! Nine mad years of mirage and three long years of despair! Powerful influences strive today to restore that kind of government with its doctrine that that Government is best which is most indifferent.

For nearly four years you have had an Administration which instead of twirling its thumbs has rolled up its sleeves. We will keep our sleeves rolled up.

We had to struggle with the old enemies of peace--business and financial monopoly, speculation, reckless banking, class antagonism, sectionalism, war profiteering.

They had begun to consider the Government of the United States as a mere appendage to their own affairs. We know now that Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob.

Never before in all our history have these forces been so united against one candidate as they stand today. They are unanimous in their hate for me--and I welcome their hatred.

I should like to have it said of my first Administration that in it the forces of selfishness and of lust for power met their match. I should like to have it said of my second Administration that in it these forces met their master.

[-] -1 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

"enemies of peace--business and financial monopoly, speculation, reckless banking, class antagonism, sectionalism, war profiteering." A pawn, a puppet, or a traitor. He obviously knew what he was doing.

[-] 1 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

Can't respond below, so I'll just remind you here to take the blue pills, not the pink ones. Call your anger management therapist in the morning and ask for that emergency session she always told you you could have.

The Family Guy where they move to Texas is on.....reminds me of your posts. You can be Stewie in drag.

By the way, FDR made you so rich that you could become the douche bag that you are.

[-] 0 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

"enemies of peace--business and financial monopoly, speculation, reckless banking, class antagonism, sectionalism, war profiteering." A pawn, a puppet, or a traitor. He obviously knew what he was doing.

Is that the post to which you were replying? You seem to be projecting. FDR was a scum sucking traitor. That I know, but I am hardly flying into a rage over it.

[-] 1 points by an0n (764) 2 years ago

the same forces that FDR represented are the ones creating the problems that OWS is trying to address

Yeah, he was representing when he "welcomed their hatred"

Primarily this is because the rulers of the exchange of mankind's goods have failed, through their own stubbornness and their own incompetence, have admitted their failure, and abdicated. Practices of the unscrupulous money changers stand indicted in the court of public opinion, rejected by the hearts and minds of men.

True they have tried, but their efforts have been cast in the pattern of an outworn tradition. Faced by failure of credit they have proposed only the lending of more money. Stripped of the lure of profit by which to induce our people to follow their false leadership, they have resorted to exhortations, pleading tearfully for restored confidence. They know only the rules of a generation of self-seekers. They have no vision, and when there is no vision the people perish.

The money changers have fled from their high seats in the temple of our civilization. We may now restore that temple to the ancient truths. The measure of the restoration lies in the extent to which we apply social values more noble than mere monetary profit.

Happiness lies not in the mere possession of money; it lies in the joy of achievement, in the thrill of creative effort. The joy and moral stimulation of work no longer must be forgotten in the mad chase of evanescent profits. These dark days will be worth all they cost us if they teach us that our true destiny is not to be ministered unto but to minister to ourselves and to our fellow men.

Recognition of the falsity of material wealth as the standard of success goes hand in hand with the abandonment of the false belief that public office and high political position are to be valued only by the standards of pride of place and personal profit; and there must be an end to a conduct in banking and in business which too often has given to a sacred trust the likeness of callous and selfish wrongdoing. Small wonder that confidence languishes, for it thrives only on honesty, on honor, on the sacredness of obligations, on faithful protection, on unselfish performance; without them it cannot live

FDR, "pawn" of the money changers.

[-] -1 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

Rosenfeldt was a "pawn"?

[-] 1 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

I'm responding to your post below......the 40 hour week was part of what was called "The Square Deal."

Prior to this legislation, people worked a six day week from dusk to dawn....and they brought their kids with them to work.

[-] 0 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

That was only in the industrialized world. But the idea of a "square deal" points to Freemasonry, not communism. Roosenfeldt was a Mason, but he was also a traitor! He is the kind of disgrace that kept me from the craft.

[-] 1 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

Taxes are going up no matter who controls our government over the next twenty years. Now tax rates may go up or there may simply be double digit inflation and that will kick people into higher brackets and devalue our debt......but taxes will rise.

You did not add in corporate taxes.

And, you need to run the numbers on the lifetime earnings of college graduates versus high school graduates.

Anyway, you've got the World Almanac out, so do the numbers and see whether it would be a worthy investment.

Oh ya, also look at tax rates on the wealthiest 1% and 10% over the past one hundred years......It's a good time to be wealthy.

[Removed]

[-] -1 points by justhefacts (1275) 2 years ago

"We call on the people of the world to show their solidarity with the people of Egypt in these moments, fighting against an administration that is but the continuation of the Mubarak era, only without Mubarak at the helm."

The above quote was taken just now, directly from the OWS "News Story" about Solidarity with Egypt. It indicates that while the Egyptians did indeed overthrow Mubarak, they did NOT overthrow the regime there.

So...when the pollsters asked the question "To the best of your knowledge, have the opposition groups protesting in Egypt been successful for bringing down the regime there?"-it would appear that the FOX news viewers were the ones with the MOST ACCURATE answers according to the current situation in Egypt. OWS own post proves it.

(The question did not even mention Mubarak individually)

For some odd reason this post went immediately halfway down the page....puffy.....aren't you all about the truth or not?

[-] 2 points by flip (6775) 2 years ago

you must be a lawyer - or just stupid. is this really what you think - are you saying that in general fox news is good info - what is your point

[-] 0 points by justhefacts (1275) 2 years ago

Stay with me:

The actual, VERBATIM question asked in the survey was- "To the best of your knowledge, have the opposition groups protesting in Egypt been successful in bringing down the regime there?"

(Note-the definition of the word regime does not indicate a single leader or individual. It indicates a group of people-the sum total of a specific government)

The question was NOT some form of "Were the Egyptians successful in overthrowing dictator Hosni Mubarak?"

You see, unlike YOU, I actually cared about the FACTS enough to actually look up the survey itself and read it myself. You appear to prefer to just assume that some poster named puff6962 is factually correct because you agree with him.

Now, if Fox News was educating it's viewers well, they would know that indeed, Hosni Mubarak HAD been overthrown, BUT they would also know that his regime-the government he was at the head of-was still in control AND STILL oppressing the crap out of the Egyptian people.

The OWS News Story I posted-demonstrates that OWS ALSO understands that the Egyptian people are STILL fighting against their administration/government/regime-just without Mubarak leading it.

Still with me?

Now say you call a person who is fully informed on the situation and ask "Did the protestors in Egypt bring down Mubarak?" they would say YES. If you asked them "Did the protestors in Egypt bring down their government/regime/administration?" they would say NO. I base this argument on my belief that most people with an average education would understand that impeaching a US President, or ousting one, IS NOT equal to (or the same as) bringing down the entire US Government, or even just all those who shared the same political party as that President did. I also believe that honest people responded to the actual questions posed to them-rather than assuming that they somehow "understood" that the questioner "meant" something else by the questions. Weird huh?

So, while some people want to believe that this survey proves that Fox News viewers are uniformed and/or stupid, all that this survey actually demonstrates is that people who do not watch Fox News believe that the Egyptian people were successful in bringing down their government. That simply is NOT the truth is it?

[-] 1 points by flip (6775) 2 years ago

ok, so you are stupid. first - all the mainstream news outlets misinform - they all have a center (barely), right bias including npr. they are all capitalist. they are all huge corporations - getting their revenue from other huge corporations - what do you think they are going to tell you. for sure fox is the worst but if you think msnbc is left then go back and look at their coverage in the build up to the sham war in iraq - see what keith had to say then. look at chris matthews saying "of course, i believe in american exceptionalism!" second - you can play your semantic games if you like but the fact remains that people who watch fox are more misinformed than the rest. to go on with this is a joke and and i assume you do not like to waste your time - you can make the same point here - did the 2008 election change the regime in the united states? don't go on unless you have some better point!

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

Our media has always been under private ownership. However, it is important to realize that our newspapers....for over a hundred years....were subsidized by the Federal government.

Despite some measure of slant, the early government thought that an informed populace was so important that they would enter an area of private commerce and prop it up.

It appears as though that may be necessary again.

Otherwise, we will be left with only Fux Nexs and MSNBC.

[-] 1 points by flip (6775) 2 years ago

we do need some sort of media alternative media - we used to have a labor press

[-] 0 points by justhefacts (1275) 2 years ago

Answer the question yourself right here for me. For all to see.

"To the best of your knowledge, have the protestors in Egypt been successful in bringing down the regime there?"

[-] 0 points by justhefacts (1275) 2 years ago

Waiting....

[-] 1 points by flip (6775) 2 years ago

stupid question - i don't know who did the survey but proves nothing - do you have a point? can you respond to what i said, please, can you do it with out showing you are just playing a little boys game - i have other things to do tonight - i am not being paid by the koch brothers to disrupt people trying to change an unjust system - what would you think is the correct expression - agent provocateur or quisling - not being paid - then you really do have a problem - get on board the gravy train with the rest of the quislings

[-] 0 points by justhefacts (1275) 2 years ago

We agree. The survey questions WERE stupid and the result proves nothing. That WAS my point.

But thanks for responding without playing "little boys games" like "My Dad's better than your Dad!" (My cause is better than your cause) or "You're so stupid that stupid people probably pay you to be stupid!". (The Koch brothers must be paying you)

You'd be a great asset to any media outlet. Really. You just come right out an insult people's intelligence, belittle anyone who disagrees with you, and construct elaborate straw man arguments hoping that your audience will be so enraptured with your rebuttal that they won't notice.

I'm glad you have other things to do tonight. Clearly posting on forums with any degree of logic or reason just isn't your forte.

[-] 1 points by flip (6775) 2 years ago

here is what you said - We can never PROSPER as a country as long as we are sliding further into debt. They can only take so much-and even if they take it all-we're screwed at our current rate of spending. And here you are demanding that we spend MORE MORE MORE!!! -this was my main point of response - do what fdr and keynes did if you like - save capitalism from itself - read about the depression - how did we get out - deficit spending building tanks , then blowing them up in france etc and building more. - if you would like to play big boy games and discuss issues - then respond to this point - deficit spending got us out of the depression - it could be done now (and it could end our over use of fossil fuels - good idea no?) except that the rich and the uninformed are blocking it - which one are you? waiting

[-] 0 points by justhefacts (1275) 2 years ago

Then you shouldn't have put your most recent "first" response under a comment that had nothing to do with what I said earlier. THAT would be "stupid" because it would result in a totally different conversation. Right?

The great depression began with the stock market crash in 1929. We didn't enter World War II until 1941 and the US GDP had returned it's pre depression levels and started rising above it in 1938. That World War II did play a role in expanding the US economy I do not argue. But I will argue that by 1939-when the US borrowed and spent 1$ billion dollars to build it's armed forces-the US was almost out of the Depression and most economists agree that Roosevelt's policies and practices had actually delayed the recovery.

http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/GreatDepression.html

[-] 2 points by flip (6775) 2 years ago

you are an idiot - that whole line of reasoning only surfaced recently to attempt to change the debate about the most recent recession - get a history book - i am thinking howard zinn but i can only assume you are hopeless - i hope you are paid double time for saturdays

[-] 0 points by justhefacts (1275) 2 years ago

Please refer to the title of this entire thread and then tell me which discussion got "off base" from that origin. I didn't post in this thread to debate "the most recent recession", but I humored you.

Again, your ad hominem attacks are childish and indicate that you don't really have any solid arguments to offer and must resort to insults and outright lies in order to make yourself feel better.

[-] 1 points by flip (6775) 2 years ago

and what has changed in 20 years? should go some way in pointing out how i came to my "opinion" - don't want to engage in a discussion of the media - still defending fox?

[-] 1 points by flip (6775) 2 years ago

much of what you say is true - we all have a bias and it affects how we view things - for some the bias is more rooted in fact. if that is what you were trying to say you should have said it- i do not hate fox - the fact is that i dislike the ny times much more because it is supposed to be left and respected. fox is an obvious shit hole so it actually makes things easier for those of us who fight against us foreign policy etc - in the same way that obama makes things harder for any real left to move it's agenda forward - anyway, that is a bit of an side issue - i will give you a bit of chomsky - you might want to read the book if you want the facts on media bias -- The Political Economy of the Mass Media Edward S. Herman interviewed by Robert W. McChesney Monthly Review, January, 1989 Over the past generation, it has become increasingly clear to those on the left that the U.S. mass media, far from performing an autonomous and adversarial role in U.S. society, actively frame issues and promote news stories that serve the needs and concerns of the elite. Moreover, the importance of the leading corporate mass media in contemporary politics radically transcends the role of the mass media in earlier times. Hence, the Left has begun to pay considerable attention to how the media are structured and controlled and how they operate. Nevertheless, the ideology of the "free press" has proven to be a difficult adversary for left critics; as the media's operations are central to the modern polity, their legitimacy is shielded by layers and layers of ideological obfuscation.

Recently, left analysis of the media has been enriched by the publication of Manufacturing Consent: The Political Economy of the Mass Media (Pantheon, 1988), by Edward S. Herman and Noam Chomsky. This book promises to be a seminal work in critical media analysis and to open a door through which future media analysis will follow. In Manufacturing Consent, Herman and Chomsky provide a systematic "propaganda model" to account for the behavior of the corporate news media in the United States. They preface their discussion of the propaganda model by noting their fundamental belief that the mass media "serve to mobilize support for the special interests that dominate the state and private support for the special interests that dominate the state and private activity." Although propaganda is not the sole function of the media, it is "a very important aspect of their overall service" (p. xi), especially "in a world of concentrated wealth and major conflicts of class interest" (p.1).

[-] 0 points by justhefacts (1275) 2 years ago

Both of those books are over 22 years old. I'm not saying they are wrong. I'm saying that they are old "news".

[-] 1 points by flip (6775) 2 years ago

very nice of you to humor me. here is your comment - So...when the pollsters asked the question "To the best of your knowledge, have the opposition groups protesting in Egypt been successful for bringing down the regime there?"-it would appear that the FOX news viewers were the ones with the MOST ACCURATE answers according to the current situation in Egypt. OWS own post proves it. - seems to me that you are trying to say that fox is not worse than the rest - that is obviously wrong. media bias is the question and you are trying to confuse the issue - i can only assume that you do it knowingly - if not say so. they are all biased towards capitalism and corporations - with fox being the worst - no question - so what is your point in saying what you said? the ww2 debate is an important one since we need deficit spending to get people employed again and attempt to end our dependency on fossil fuels. if the hard money crowd wins the debate we are done - just like in 1937 when fdr raised taxes and reduced spending to try to balance the budget - that caused another stock market dive and a deeper recession. again i assume you know that since you present a rather sophisticated point on the depression. the central point to debate today (for the country) is the debt - it does not matter - we need to spend money - of course, there is plenty of money if the power elite want to find it - military spending is one place (800+ bases around the world - for what exactly) and then of course we can look to the pockets of corporations and private individuals but since the media is owned by them - not much chance unless ows gains momentum - which side are you on?

[-] 0 points by justhefacts (1275) 2 years ago

"seems to me that you are trying to say that fox is not worse than the rest - that is obviously wrong."

If I meant to say that...I would. I have no control over your need to tell me what you "THINK I am trying to say" and I have no respect for those who live under the psychotic delusion that they have the ability to read minds. My point on Foxs News, in this thread, was, and is, and will continue to be, addressed directly at what the "survey" in question proves or does not prove about it's viewers.

At the root of MY POINT is that personal bias-a natural human response-OFTEN clouds our ability to determine fact from spin. We eagerly believe the things we WANT to be true because they validate our opinions and make us feel better about where we stand on any given issue. The problem is that this means that OFTEN, the things we believe are not actually TRUE or CORRECT, and we end up making choices based on FALSE information. I hate doing that.

I also hate misjudging people, things, corporations, facts, situations etc I hate being "fooled" or used as a pawn by someone or something. Because I HATE finding out that I have believed, and most likely passed on, FALSE information, I started years ago to make sure that I have ALL the evidence I can gather on something BEFORE I determine what I SHOULD think about it.

If you have evidence to support your outright hatred for Fox and your insistence that it violates facts "worse than the rest" do-for the love of all that is holy please provide it. If you don't, then I acknowledge your OPINION. But it is nothing more than that. An opinion.

[-] -2 points by betuadollar (-313) 2 years ago

Fox is the very reason we are informed. I also enjoy the Times and the Wall Street journal.

[-] 2 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

Do you realize that the opinion page of the WSJ is about the most partisan and whacko back page of any newspaper in history?

[-] -2 points by betuadollar (-313) 2 years ago

Some rather twisted philosophies, right? You know New Yorkers are not real people, right? And what did you expect, I mean, these people live the entire narrow little lives trapped between concrete and smog.

[-] 1 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

I think the poll was done in New Jersey.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

They should have done the poll in the United States. I've lived in New Jersey. Ooops.Sorry! I spent a lot of consecutive days and nights in New Jersey, but lived? Naaaah!

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

I was in the same hotel with the hijackers on the weekend before 9-11. That was my last experience in New Jersey. But, Newark is simply paradise.

[-] -2 points by betuadollar (-313) 2 years ago

Listen, check it: Fox is very critical of the present administration. And I love it.

[-] -2 points by betuadollar (-313) 2 years ago

I love Fox, and compared to most that I encounter, of all walks of life, I am very well informed.

[-] 2 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

You must be surrounded by some dumb motherfuckers.

[-] -2 points by journey4word (214) 2 years ago

I think it only shows. People who generally watch FOX are less likely to give a shit about Egypt or Syria, when we have so many problems right here at home.
CNN will air a story about slug sex in Africa to keep from covering the mess democrats have us in and thus will base its questions on irrelevant world issues.

[-] 3 points by Thinkdeer (250) 2 years ago

I think you lack critical thinking in favor of self justification.

[-] 3 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

No, it shows that Fox news viewers only care what Fox news tells them to care about.

[-] -2 points by journey4word (214) 2 years ago

ehh I watch FOX, and others. and Still care about what I care about.

it's just funny how the liberal socialists want Fox censored and/or taken off air.

scares the hell out of a democrat I'm sure.

[-] 4 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

No, we just want Fox news to be a news organization rather than a fairy tale.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Interesting.

What is it you "Still" care about?

[-] -3 points by RexDiamond (585) from Idabel, OK 2 years ago

This study brought to you by Media Matters.

[-] -2 points by justhefacts (1275) 2 years ago

Nothing represents an accurate representation of the people of the United States like asking 600 New Jersians what they know about current events.

[-] -2 points by RexDiamond (585) from Idabel, OK 2 years ago

HA HA HA lol exactly. The left is trying everything they can. I knew it was bogus when they compared it to NPR.

[-] 1 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

HA HA HA.....NPR listeners are woosies.....HA HA HA. Isn't it great to be so dumb that you don't know you're dumb.

[Removed]

[-] -3 points by JohnMarsden (47) 2 years ago

Keep pushing that elitism. I'm sure you'll be attracting those moderate supporters in no time!

[-] 4 points by Thinkdeer (250) 2 years ago

It is not elitism to criticize the willingly misinformed

[-] 1 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

You always decry elitism when your side is shown to be stupid. Keep watching Fox news while your wife is watching Days of Our Lives. Both shows will educate you just as well.

[-] -1 points by tomcat68 (298) 2 years ago

oooo fact is FOX scares the hell out of you and your liberal socialist kind.

I'm really getting tired of hearing people cry about a particular news. It would probably be BANNED if it were up to people Like you and we could watch Only what You deem the "truth"

[-] 1 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

Somehow, America did quite well before the advent of Fox News. In fact, news organizations prided themselves on being exact, factual, fair, and objective. Journalists were regarded as professionals.

Fox News ruined all of that. It turned news into pornography.

[-] 0 points by tomcat68 (298) 2 years ago

that's silly.

a demand for a non-democrat owned news organization grew as NBC CBS and ABCs reports started leaning so far left Americans were reporting their TVs were falling over on their sides.

even recently, there were More stories of Herman Cain, supposedly harassing women over a decade ago, on the Main Stream Media channels, in One day than through ALL Three of Bill Clintons sex affairs while he was in the white house, Total.

that isn't biased right?

and could it be possible they were regarded as professionals until they stopped acting professional? and FOX just saw an opportunity to capitalize on the Lack of fair reporting.

I know you wont agree, lol. I've never met a democrat who can admit the truth

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

When did FLAKESnews start doing "fair reporting"?

Was that right after they won the court case that allows them to out and out lie?

They sure do that with a passion.

[-] 1 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

Herman Cain is a buffoon and completely unqualified to run for ANY elected office. Yet, for a brief moment, Fox treated him as their savior.

[-] 0 points by tomcat68 (298) 2 years ago

i watched FOX. they treated him as the front runner, which surprisingly he was.

but you'd have to Admit even Herman Cain has experience in economic growth. that's something.

At least better than the "community Organizer" with ZERO experience in Anything had in 2008.

[-] 1 points by Michman (2) from Saline, MI 2 years ago

Its a bit of an aside, but why do you think a businessman makes a good political leader? A good business leader is cuthroat, willing to throw people under the bus to get ahead, focused on profit over people, and loyal only to the bottom line. Ever watched The Apprentice? I want a leader who cares about people, particularly Americans. What is good for business is not the same as what is good for America.

[-] 1 points by tomcat68 (298) 2 years ago

how many business leaders do you know? in real life not on TV?

I know a few, and they aren't this cold hearted calculating "Mr. Scrooge" that you are painting. YES they want their Business to succeed. and YES if this country was their business they would want IT to succeed.

just makes good sense to select or appoint a Tool that fits the Job at Hand.

[-] 1 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

Hereman got his economic proposals from the SIMS and the Koch Brothers. He was never meant to be a serious candidate, he was only meant to inject 999 into our lexicon. Unfortunately, for the Koch brothers, Hereman Cain ended being a COMPLETE buffoon. How did this man ever run a pizza stand?

[-] 1 points by tomcat68 (298) 2 years ago

i dunno . lol, He wasn't MY pick for 2012 but if he happened to win the nomination? I'd have to give him my vote.

ABO 2012

we can't keep re-electing corrupt politicians.

~AND~ we Need to reduce the term to 1 year. this is 2011 not 1947 WE do NOT need 4 years to find out if we have a winner or a looser WE do not need 12 months of debates and media WE will determine if a president should be re-elected based on his performance.