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Forum Post: Former President Of Mexico Calls On U.S. To Legalize Drugs - Prohibitions Have Never Worked

Posted 2 years ago on April 16, 2012, 4:44 p.m. EST by Reneye (118)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

I hate drugs, but I hate drug wars WAY more. Governments are the biggest offenders for drug trafficking, and the profits are used to fund the Military Industrial Complex amongst other shady practices. Lets take it away from them. Good interview!

http://www.kens5.com/news/national/Former-president-of-Mexico-calls-on-US-to-legalize-drugs--147558755.html

40 Comments

40 Comments


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[-] 4 points by gnomunny (6592) from St Louis, MO 2 years ago

"Controversial position" my ass! It's the logical position. Ex-president Fox is, apparently, the only North American leader that doesn't have his head up his ass. Sounds like a wise man.

[-] 3 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 2 years ago

50,000 Mexicans have died in drug related violence in the last 5 years. That is a war! That is a crime against humanity! We even sent 2000 weapons down there to the drug cartels. And if you support that insane war on drugs, you are responsible!

[-] 2 points by Reneye (118) 2 years ago

I know! And its not like legalizing drugs hasn't been done before. We're not reinventing the wheel here. Its been done. Legalizing drugs has not gone entirely without its problems, but much of that can be solved with sound rules like they've done with smoking and alcohol use. There are massive global benefits to legalizing drugs.

50,000 dead...and that's just Mexico. I'd love to see the globalist government drug cartel put out of business.

[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 2 years ago

"Prohibitions Have Never Worked" ???????????
of course they worked - very well in fact


look a alcohol prohibition-
it worked - creating more parties,
it worked - creating more prisoners,
it worked - creating more disdain for law enforcement,
it worked - creating more jobs for jailers & cops,
it worked - creating more murders,
it worked - creating more money for organized crime,
AND TODAY
poppy profits buy weapons for terrorists


marijuana should be available like alcohol
heroin, etc should be available by prescription

[-] 1 points by CarlosFenito (36) 2 years ago

Agreed. Just like firearm prohibition.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (7066) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

I could agree with that, sounds like a good solution.

Obama has gotten as close to compeletly losing me on this one, as he has been, it may not seem as bad as the war stuff, but I know a lot of that stuff involes stuff that is really hard to know. This is not at all hard to know, putting people in jail for smoking pot while allowing others to drink beer is immoral.

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 2 years ago

I hate expaining or apologizing for Obama
But he is NOT a king
he must live in a counrty populated by idiots who vote on single issues like abortion and guns and drugs
I would bet he will "push" for legalization next year

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (7066) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

But this week our allies in the south gave him a great chance and he went stright against it, I mean you know how I feel, so this is tough for me, I'll get over it, but is bullshit, he could of said something here, with cover.

[-] 2 points by gestopomillyy (1695) 2 years ago

Legalize Marijuana!

[-] 2 points by XenuLives (1645) from Charlotte, NC 2 years ago

I'm not a fan of drug use either, but I think that it would be an economic boon for the US if it ended this silly war on drugs. Think of the $ that would be saved from having that many less people going through law enforcement, the courts, and the prison system. How much money does it cost to apprehend, put to trial, and incarcerate one person for possession?

[-] 7 points by gnomunny (6592) from St Louis, MO 2 years ago

Considering our prison system is being increasingly 'privatized' and becoming a for-profit industry (in itself an absurd idea), arresting and incarcerating people apparently turns a profit.

[-] 1 points by Odin (583) 2 years ago

Then there's the defense lawyers....prosecutors...judges..the prison builders and suppliers...prison guards..and bail bonds people. They all feed at the troth which is fueled mostly by non-violent drug abusers who would be a lot better off with treatment. This sane appoach would be far less expensive and more beneficial to society on the whole.

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6592) from St Louis, MO 2 years ago

Not to mention the government agencies and others.

It's the same with the auto industry; repair shops, aftermarket suppliers like AutoZone, not to mention literally tens of thousands of 'backyard' mechanics, technically unemployed, that earn cash working on them. It's always a far bigger picture than just 'drugs' or 'oil.'

One must always consider the ripple effects.

[-] 0 points by Odin (583) 2 years ago

Yep, that's why our economy has to at some point go under a whole transformation which will take time. We should start though with the worst offenders, and take smaller baby steps in other areas. Hopefully for every job lost in the old economy, there is one gained in the new. That has to be one of our goals. We cannot let old fossil fuel money hold us back from evolving into new, albeit scarey unknown world. In any event, "attitude is the difference between ordeal and adventure."

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6592) from St Louis, MO 2 years ago

Good quote. Who said it?

Baby steps absolutely. So many things are interconnected now, they'll be some strong ripple effects for sure. Maybe even a tsunami or two. What would you consider the worst offender, i.e. where to start first?

[-] 0 points by Odin (583) 2 years ago

I love that quote, and I did look it up once and could not find the author. Now it's up to you! It is applicable to just about everything except the absolute worst, and I try to live by it......even when my prognosis healthwise was not good. In fact, I credit my current excellent health in good part to attitude. I made a choice to myself, I was going to either die on my bike, or I was going to get better, 6,000 measured miles later, so far, so good! :-)

The interconnectedness of the problems the world faces, as you implied is something that we have to all recognize. That and wresting control of our country away form corporate interests has to be one of our top priortiies, because we can't go much further without doing that. Just as many of us, including me have been educated in the last six months, it is now our job to go out and educate the people who are still unaware. We also have to target the timid, and the people in despair.

One of the first steps is to make them realize that the corporate-owned media has a bias in favor of the corrupt staus quo...and it is to their the 99% detriment, and they have to search other places to learn the truth. By doing this, they will come to realize how this screwed up system is connected to their personal plight. The common denominator as most of us here now know is neoliberalism. As I pointed out in another comment: We should never say media, without preceding it with corporate owned, big banks without corrupt in front of it. Theres more of 'em. Catch phrases, and stupid little arguments is how the neocons promoted their fucked-up agenda, and unfortunately it worked. So i believe the opposite would work for our righteous struggle, but the main objective is to lead them to understand with real knowledge.

Simultaneously though, our number one priority that we should engage is to get us on a more sustainable path, which means getting us off fossil fuels. That is paramount I think, and we should keep pounding away at that starting now.

[-] 1 points by SPAR23 (25) 2 years ago

exactly how does our prison system turn a profit?

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6592) from St Louis, MO 2 years ago

Damn, Spar. You definitely haven't been paying attention. Welcome to the forum.

[-] 1 points by jph (2652) 2 years ago

http://www.forbes.com/sites/walterpavlo/2011/08/12/pennsylvania-judge-gets-life-sentence-for-prison-kickback-scheme/

"He was found guilty in February of racketeering for taking a $1 million kickback from the builder of for-profit prisons for juveniles. Ciavarella who left the bench over two years ago after he and another judge, Michael Conahan, were accused of sentencing youngsters to prisons they had a hand in building. Prosecutors alleged that Conahan, who pleaded guilty last year and is awaiting sentencing, and Ciavarella received kick-backs from the private company that built and maintained the new youth detention facility that replaced the older county-run center."

like so!

[-] 1 points by SPAR23 (25) 2 years ago

That is a few judges that committed a crime. Its not like our governmnet or rich people are turning a profit from it. It costs a shit load of money to maintain prisons.

[-] 1 points by jph (2652) 2 years ago

So for-profit corporate jailers do it as a public service? are you a retarded person? If so I understand it is confusing.

If they get payed to keep people in prison, if they profit from doing that, then it it in their interests to incarcerate more people, and keep them their longer. If you actually read about the cases where, those judges in that single case, one of many, are payed to 'get more prisoners' they actually put people in and then KEEP them in by charging them with infractions while inside. And who charges them with those 'crimes'? The prisons officials, the ones profiting. It is a terrible gulag system with build in feedback loop. This is not a justice system but a slave system. Many are forced to work, also for private profits of the prison controllers, while inside.

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[-] 0 points by Yin7 (44) 2 years ago

I often think the repeal of the death penalty in many states is not for humanitarian reasons, but because it will increase the slave force in prison.

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6592) from St Louis, MO 2 years ago

Wow. I never thought of that but, chillingly, you may be right.

[-] 1 points by toukarin (488) 2 years ago

I dont use drugs, never have, probably never will either.

Legalization of drugs has the potential to ease many of the ills in our society.

Think of all the money that we would NOT be giving to drug dealers and their cabals.

Think of all the government resources that could be directed to more productive activities that actually help the people.

Think of all the lives saved globally due to the elimination of drug related violence

Legalization would mean that there would be programs in place to educate people about how to use these drugs and probably reduce OD deaths. It would also encourage people to seek treatment for addictions rather than suffer in silence.

Think of the tax revenues this would bring in.

[-] 1 points by Nevada1 (4727) 2 years ago

Hi Reneye, Good Post. People die, and so much of the worlds wealth goes to the worst people. Best Regards

[-] 1 points by Odin (583) 2 years ago

The drug war is what fuels our prison industrial complex, where our incarcerateration rate is far more than higher than any other country in the world.

[-] 1 points by FreedomReigns (72) 2 years ago

You're right. I don't get it?!? With the overall success of the "social experiment" or "model" in other parts of the world where legalization of drugs has already taken place, what's to debate any more? Its already a foregone conclusion, is it not? I 've come to the conclusion that anyone in our government of educated and worldly people that is still arguing against legalization, is doing so for 'controlled opposition' so that they can keep drug profiteering in the government's hands.

[-] 1 points by Odin (583) 2 years ago

"....so they can keep drug profiteering in the government's hands."....ding...ding..ding. You win a beautiful Amana oven. With any kind of luck, the majority of people will win one.

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[-] 0 points by SPAR23 (25) 2 years ago

It is pretty funny because again it is obviously Americas fault. Do you really want everyone baked and spiked up on coc all the time. This drug war started in Mexico and will end in Mexico. We should be working with the Mexicans to use military force. They use the military so we should put the National Gaurd on the border to stop violent drug smugglers. The solution is simple but everyone is a pussy about it.

[-] 1 points by jph (2652) 2 years ago

That is an idiotic suggestion,. more military/police state?

Yes America is the market for the drugs or is that not a part of the supply DEMAND economy??

[-] 1 points by SPAR23 (25) 2 years ago

it is not idiotic, we CANNOT make drugs like coc and lsd legal. They fuck people up. The cartels are extremely dangerous and the only way to stop them is with force. Dozens of Mexican drug police are killed every month. The border patrol is helping but there is not enough of them. Other then making these drugs legal please tell me any other way would work.

[-] 9 points by Reneye (118) 2 years ago

Yes...and legalizing drugs would put an end to almost all of that killing! Make the connection. People wouldn't all of a sudden be staggering through the streets, high on coc and lsd. When prohibitions end, there is little if any influx of use, and regulations on lawful use take care of the growing pains felt by the change in social use. Remember that we're not going in to this blind. Legalization of drugs has been done before and research shows that drug use actually goes down.

Afghanistan had all but shut down their poppy fields, when the US government used our military and went in and resurrected them again. To this day, US soldiers are guarding these fields of poppies for the US government. If we don't legalize drugs and get those markets to the people, the problem of black market coc and lsd is not likely to disappear. The government will just make them instead, along with all the corruption and killings that brings with it. Consider these statistics:

10 Reasons to legalise all drugs

comment from Transform: the campaign for effective drug policy

1 . Address the real issues

For too long policy makers have used prohibition as a smoke screen to avoid addressing the social and economic factors that lead people to use drugs. Most illegal and legal drug use is recreational. Poverty and despair are at the root of most problematic drug use and it is only by addressing these underlying causes that we can hope to significantly decrease the number of problematic users.

2 . Eliminate the criminal market place

The market for drugs is demand-led and millions of people demand illegal drugs. Making the production, supply and use of some drugs illegal creates a vacuum into which organised crime moves. The profits are worth billions of pounds. Legalisation forces organised crime from the drugs trade, starves them of income and enables us to regulate and control the market (i.e. prescription, licensing, laws on sales to minors, advertising regulations etc.)

3 . Massively reduce crime

The price of illegal drugs is determined by a demand-led, unregulated market. Using illegal drugs is very expensive. This means that some dependent users resort to stealing to raise funds (accounting for 50% of UK property crime - estimated at £2 billion a year). Most of the violence associated with illegal drug dealing is caused by its illegality

Legalisation would enable us to regulate the market, determine a much lower price and remove users need to raise funds through crime. Our legal system would be freed up and our prison population dramatically reduced, saving billions. Because of the low price, cigarette smokers do not have to steal to support their habits. There is also no violence associated with the legal tobacco market.

4 . Drug users are a majority

Recent research shows that nearly half of all 15-16 year olds have used an illegal drug. Up to one and a half million people use ecstasy every weekend. Amongst young people, illegal drug use is seen as normal. Intensifying the 'war on drugs' is not reducing demand. In Holland, where cannabis laws are far less harsh, drug usage is amongst the lowest in Europe.

Legalisation accepts that drug use is normal and that it is a social issue, not a criminal justice one. How we deal with it is up to all of us to decide.

In 1970 there were 9000 convictions or cautions for drug offences and 15% of young people had used an illegal drug. In 1995 the figures were 94 000 and 45%. Prohibition doesn't work.

5 . Provide access to truthful information and education

A wealth of disinformation about drugs and drug use is given to us by ignorant and prejudiced policy-makers and media who peddle myths upon lies for their own ends. This creates many of the risks and dangers associated with drug use.

Legalisation would help us to disseminate open, honest and truthful information to users and non-users to help them to make decisions about whether and how to use. We could begin research again on presently illicit drugs to discover all their uses and effects - both positive and negative.

6 . Make all drug use safer

Prohibition has led to the stigmatisation and marginalisation of drug users. Countries that operate ultra-prohibitionist policies have very high rates of HIV infection amongst injecting users. Hepatitis C rates amongst users in the UK are increasing substantially.

In the UK in the '80's clean needles for injecting users and safer sex education for young people were made available in response to fears of HIV. Harm reduction policies are in direct opposition to prohibitionist laws.

7 . Restore our rights and responsibilities

Prohibition unnecessarily criminalises millions of otherwise law-abiding people. It removes the responsibility for distribution of drugs from policy makers and hands it over to unregulated, sometimes violent dealers.

Legalisation restores our right to use drugs responsibly to change the way we think and feel. It enables controls and regulations to be put in place to protect the vulnerable.

8 . Race and Drugs

Black people are over ten times more likely to be imprisoned for drug offences than whites. Arrests for drug offences are notoriously discretionary allowing enforcement to easily target a particular ethnic group. Prohibition has fostered this stereotyping of black people.

Legalisation removes a whole set of laws that are used to disproportionately bring black people into contact with the criminal justice system. It would help to redress the over representation of black drug offenders in prison.

9 . Global Implications

The illegal drugs market makes up 8% of all world trade (around £300 billion a year). Whole countries are run under the corrupting influence of drug cartels. Prohibition also enables developed countries to wield vast political power over producer nations under the auspices of drug control programmes.

Legalisation returns lost revenue to the legitimate taxed economy and removes some of the high-level corruption. It also removes a tool of political interference by foreign countries against producer nations.

10 . Prohibition doesn't work

There is no evidence to show that prohibition is succeeding. The question we must ask ourselves is, "What are the benefits of criminalising any drug?" If, after examining all the available evidence, we find that the costs outweigh the benefits, then we must seek an alternative policy.

Legalisation is not a cure-all but it does allow us to address many of the problems associated with drug use, and those created by prohibition. The time has come for an effective and pragmatic drug policy.

"If the (drug) problem continues advancing as it is at the moment, we're going to be faced with some very frightening options. Either you have a massive reduction in civil rights or you have to look at some radical solutions. The issue has to be, can a criminal justice system solve this particular problem?"

Commander John Grieve, Criminal Intelligence Unit, Scotland Yard, Channel 4 1997

Copyright Transform Campaign for effective drug policy Easton Business Centre Felix Road Easton Bristol BS1 0HE Telephone: +44 (0) 117 941 5810 Facsimile: +44 (0) 117 941 5809

Email: rae@transform-drugs.org.uk

web:www.transform-drugs.org.uk

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (7066) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

I believe it is always important to understand, both sides.

First any drug law relaxation would either start with or at the very least include cannabis. So I will focus there as I see it as the major objection even though it is not often cited as such. In truth reason would limit the use of other drugs, reason would also lead to people to understand that cannabis provides advantages over alcohol and would likely see it’s current level of acceptance. This is what creates the problem for the 1% who depend on a motivated workforce eager to consume it’s products and willing to trade their lives for the privilege. Cannabis can interfere with those thought processes, and thus presents a real threat to the 1%.

[-] 1 points by Reneye (118) 2 years ago

Good devil's advocate post! I truly believe though, that there would be little change in the usage from what it is now.

Regulations would be put in place similar to smoking and drinking laws with regard to age and lawful locations. Some mechanism would quickly be adapted similar to a breathilizer to keep drivers from toking and driving. So nothing would change there.

There are more than just the legal laws enforcing how people would use it publicly as well. Social pressures from bosses, for instance. People wouldn't toke before they went to work any more than they would show up to work drunk, for fear of losing their job. They wouldn't toke on work breaks for the same reason they wouldn't swig from a liquor bottle on their breaks, again, they'd fear getting fired.

Once the usage laws are in place, which would happen immediately, and the dust settles, I really don't think the social landscape and human behaviours would change very much.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (7066) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

You may be right, human behavior on large scale is not really a specialty of mine. I have some limited personal experience and feel that those who "medicate" seem less ambitions, I am not saying that is bad, just what is, is.

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[-] -2 points by SPAR23 (25) 2 years ago

So it is allright for people jst to be shhoting up coc and heroin and ODing

[-] 1 points by XenuLives (1645) from Charlotte, NC 2 years ago

There's going to be a minority of substance abusers no matter what. Are the streets filled with people who are so drunk that they can't function?

There are a few people who can't drink responsibly, but the vast majority of us can. It would be the same way with this.

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[-] 2 points by jph (2652) 2 years ago

People are quite capable of deciding for themselves what to put in their bodies when given the facts. Currently we see loads of prop

Do you see the military/police state approach working?? We have had a war on drugs for many many years with no good outcomes, the war on drugs is very profitable to some in crime and law enforcement, as well as big-pharma, .who continue pushing all their pharmaceuticals that are now the NUMBER ONE CAUSE OF DEATH IN AMERICA! drugs that are currently fully legal, are far more destructive, and many people on 'antidepressants' and 'mood controlling' pharmaceuticals would be much better served by smoking bowl and de-stressing naturally.

I do not support heroin, coke, or meth use, these are unpleasant. However I still see no actual benefit to the current prohibition, as the people that what them, get the drugs anyway, and have no guarantee of quality or purity. The only ones benefiting now are the cartels, big-pharma, and the military/police state.

You can not stop people from getting what they want.

[-] 0 points by SPAR23 (25) 2 years ago

Actually its heart disease, so you find it ok for people to shoot up heroin and OD.

[-] 3 points by jph (2652) 2 years ago

If they so choose, why should you stop them? I just think we need to use a small portion of the 'war on drugs' budget for education and leave it at that,. Dose your 'war on drugs' stop this now? Prohibition does not work, or it only works for those that profit by the system, as I have stated. So prohibition does not work but you want more of it?

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