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Forum Post: Formally demand that Moveon.org leave.

Posted 3 years ago on Oct. 16, 2011, 9:06 p.m. EST by moediggity (646) from Houston, TX
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

http://signon.org/sign/formally-demand-that?source=c.url&r_by=1259376

These guys are really trying to take our voice away from us!This is OUR movement and it is NOT obamas personal re-election campaign.

156 Comments

156 Comments


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[-] 7 points by TruePatriots (274) from San Diego, CA 3 years ago

wait wait wait we can have libertarians but not moveon.org in the movement? They are the 99% too.

[-] 3 points by LetsGetReal (1420) from Grants, NM 3 years ago

MoveOn is an organization. A great first step towards eliminating corporate personhood would be a movement which does not accept endorsements of membership from any organization, only real people.

[Removed]

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 3 years ago

ok... this is importent.. however confusing... we do need to converge on a short & concise statement on this... LetsGetReal, I agree with your statement... but if we figure out how to invite support & endorsement from groups as well as people and still relay the message that we can't bought ... that should be clear... no?

[-] 1 points by LetsGetReal (1420) from Grants, NM 3 years ago

I don't think so. Why is endorsement from any group needed?

[-] 2 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 3 years ago

how's this ?

original... ............

      "Corporations Are Not People ...
    Political Parties Are Not People ...
      Organizations Are Not People ...
      Institutions Are Not People ...

        "We The 99%" Are People ...

          Support us as Institutions ...
   Join us in Solidarity as individuals ...

             We are the 99%“

new:

            ............

  "Corporations Are Not People ...
Political Parties Are Not People ...
  Organizations Are Not People ...

         We Are People ...

      Support us as People ...
Join us in Solidarity as individuals ...
         We are the 99%“
[-] 1 points by toyotabedzrock (11) from Bordentown, NJ 3 years ago

We the 99% is an organization...

[-] 1 points by EndTheFedNow (692) 3 years ago

That's great but it means that we don't need the endorsement of organizations because organizations are not individuals!

Once the door is opened to any organization, infiltration and hijacking begin. It's already happening with the teachers union - a completely self serving organization, for the sole benefit of ONLY teachers.

[-] 1 points by toyotabedzrock (11) from Bordentown, NJ 3 years ago

You couldn't read without teachers, and they push for many things that help children. They are the people, and they represent more people than has turned out for Occupy.

Get your union bashing ass and run to another area.

[-] 1 points by EndTheFedNow (692) 3 years ago

I was a long time member of the NEA and my state and local counterparts. I know what the people who foot the bill do not. I never felt right about the working poor footing the bill for my cadillac insurance and long periods of time off. It is not right, it's not moral, and it is not equality for all of the citizens. If the mass people had a clue about the salaries, benefits and pensions they would be furious, and rightly so. Self centered interests that loot our neighbors must come to an end.

Oh, and, btw, since when can't ANYONE, especially families, teach children to read? Home schoolers do it all the time. Your self importance is your delusion.

[-] 1 points by zz1968 (89) 3 years ago

You want to change a couple of lines. If you look at the text from three feet away it looks like a skull and bones

[-] 1 points by e000 (371) 3 years ago

facepalm Or a pot of petunias.

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 3 years ago

hehehe ;) right

[-] 1 points by zz1968 (89) 3 years ago

In a TRS80 way

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 3 years ago

ok :) I'm sold ;)

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 3 years ago

it's not needed... but it seems a little hypocritical to exclude based on simple fear of portraying an image... ????? not sure of answer ????

did we let the unions give support ?

[-] 2 points by LetsGetReal (1420) from Grants, NM 3 years ago

Thank you for considering the point. I don't think the movement should exclude anyone, but I do think it would be wise to exclude all organizations. Their individual members would be welcome to participate or not.

Like it or not, it does portray an image when the group accepts organizational endorsements and that does keep people away, people who share many fundamental interests and who could be valuable allies.

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 3 years ago

yes you taught me... Thanks ;)

I believe "Consensus Statements".. so to speak can really help us get organized and communicate what is going on...' agreed ?

pick this apart...

               ............

      "Corporations Are Not People ...
    Political Parties Are Not People ...
      Organizations Are Not People ...

             We Are People ...

          Support us as People ...
   Join us in Solidarity as individuals ...
             We are the 99%“
[-] 2 points by LetsGetReal (1420) from Grants, NM 3 years ago

I like the sentiments. Actually the 1% are people too, just really really rich people who have far too much influence in our government.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 3 years ago

people should be able to openly discuss their wages

and the profits and losses of the business they work with

[-] 0 points by toyotabedzrock (11) from Bordentown, NJ 3 years ago

There is a fundamental difference between a corporation and a person backed org. Occupy is a movement powered by real people. So is MoveOn, they just happen to have money to fight in ways that Occupy can't. And they try to help popular movements like Occupy be heard in government.

Last time I checked Occupy has collected a large amount of money on its own, so lets cut down the criticism.

[-] 2 points by toyotabedzrock (11) from Bordentown, NJ 3 years ago

http://www.occupyr.com/ Is pushing this libertarian BS. It looks like a Libertarian alternative to http://Occupywallst.org

MoveOn supports our agenda and is willing to listen to what Occupy wants.

Watch This video, the whole thing is important but if you want to learn about who Michael Moore is then fast forward to the 3min. mark. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/44952522#44952505

[Removed]

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 3 years ago

come on that's silly... we are building a "true democracy" ... that includes who-ever wants to show up... just learn how to deal with them...

Note: after discussion here.. I agree the following is in error

               ............

      "Corporations Are Not People ...
    Political Parties Are Not People ...
      Institutions Are Not People ...

        "We The 99%" Are People ...

       Support us as Institutions ...
   Join us in Solidarity as individuals ...

              We are the 99%“
[-] 3 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 3 years ago

hmmm... LetsGetReal says.."MoveOn is an organization. A great first step towards eliminating corporate personhood would be a movement which does not accept endorsements of membership from any organization, only real people.".....

I agree... I guess my little sign didn't say that did it?... hmmm

[Removed]

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 3 years ago

:) hi MikeyD ..... I don't understand ??? ... then why do you think you need to block anyone that want's to support ? ....later: ok... I agree .. kind of ???

[Removed]

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 3 years ago

yep true...

[-] -1 points by Dost (315) 3 years ago

The point is to have some core principles, values or a general statement which people can agree with. We don not want Right Wing Nut Jobs in the group. Goldman Sachs??? Of course no. George Soros, yes. Are you kidding me? Dude, what is your argument? The 99% doesn't make sense. You can't claim you represent 99%. 33% of the country is hard-core conservatives, few which would support you. The 99% is a nice metaphor but that is all. At some point, you have to make choices and build a coalition. Everything else is just wishy-washy dreaming. Sorry, to rain on your parade. But this absurd utopian idealism will not hold. Hell, look at a lot of the people posting on this site as an indication: anti-semites, the Ron Paul Crowd and neo-liberals, etc. Even libertarians who do not agree much with any of the socialist rhetoric. We understand the Desire, the Wish to be all inclusive but in the world we live in, it's pie-in-the-sky stuff.

[Removed]

[-] 1 points by Dost (315) 3 years ago

(The following Post is in response to MikeyD-SEE BELOW-- from Alameda who seems to be speaking for the Whole Movement): Ah, actually, I am assuming you are a progressive group generally speaking but have attracted all sorts of people which, given the nature of the protest is not surprising. Did i say something about socialism? Was the "99% Motto" decided by consensus (I mean was there an actual vote and who voted...since you seem to be in Alameda... correct me if I am wrong...but did you vote? and are you a spokesperson for the group? Was there a decision to not take any money from a corporation? Did you talk to others who agreed with that? You see my point,yes? There seems to be no structure that I know of and I am getting very confused. You actually believe that this group of people represent the wishes of 99% of the people of this country? I did not know that group consensus was reached concerning a TOTAL and ABSOLUTE rejection of all corporate money and connections. How do you know this? Who are you? Who gave you authority to speak for the group? How do you know that people voting aren't invested in corporations? I personally do not know much about George Soros except he is pretty progressive. By the way, I understand that Corporations are deemed humans by some (Romney) but do you mean to agree with him and declare George Soros a corporation? Did i say to expunge Ron Paul people? Did I say the group was "infested" with anti-semites?

Talk about misrepresenting and putting words in my mouth, I think you need to take a course in logic. My friend, FYI, I am an old-time political activist and organizer with tons of experience. I have not referenced my political views or orientation here. And yes, inclusiveness in wonderful but as a matter of ultimate goals and action, I, at least, am unclear what the group wants. If you want to tell me, I am all ears. But, are your views the views of others in this group. Can you tell me unequivocally, you speak for them.

So far, I have seen a lot of protesting and demonstrating and I am very impressed but not surprised as I have been advocating for it for years and wondered why there wasn't movement much earlier. But now that it is happened, I am excited. Forgive me for the presumption of thinking that I know something about organizing but unless this Movement is truly unique in the history of the world, at some point, you will need organization, structure and leadership or you will not get where you want to go. Name me a movement with no leaders, no structure and organization and shared values and principles. And, by the way, can you tell me what the movement stands for, clearly and succinctly. And after you do, can I run it by, say 5,000 others and see if they agree?

I can't say who or what to spurn at this point. I guess you are saying that the following is true (correct me if I am wrong): 1) you are all inclusive except for the top 1% which is about 3.2 million people whom you(?) or the group (?) has deemed unfit to the join the movement because they make too much money. RIGHT? 2) You are anti-corporation in the absolute sense of the word meaning anybody who has a small business (even someone who was a small-time publisher and incorporated even if they only make a profit of $50,000 or $30,000 per year); 3) or, it is against the by-laws of the OWS group to accept any money from any corporation (let's say one which only makes a profit of $30,00) but okay to accept money from someone who works on Wall Street, has ripped off and cheater and stolen money but who only makes $200,000 per year; 4) you do not want to spurn anybody including anti-semites, slaveowners, and motherfuckers who generally want to cause trouble. Following your logic, all four above are correct.

Look, I get where you are coming from. It is very noble and idealistic and all that. And yes, you can say what you want and pretend to represent the views of the OWS but if, like I say, some might disagree with you. I will cut you some slack and let's see where this Movement is six months from now. Judging from the more serious contributions on this site, it seemed very evident to be that the essence of the group is Progressive in its values but if Ron Paul followers, Neo-Liberals, and Libertarians are part of the 99%, I am not sure what to think. I mean, these people would not agree with you and your anti-corporate views, right?

Let's get some clarification here. I fear if not, things will drift and the whole thing will be one anarchic mess. But, that is just me. Let's see if things change in six months.

[-] 0 points by FuManchu (619) 3 years ago

libertarians are people. moveon is an organization. There is a difference. If the libertarian party hijacked OWS, that would not be good either.

[-] 0 points by FuManchu (619) 3 years ago

we also have people that support other ideologies - capitalism, socialism etc. It is ok to have people with various ideas. Libertarians are just one of them. It is not ok to have organizations though. Moveon, unions, libertarian party or whatever. We will only end up furthering their agenda.

[-] 1 points by TruePatriots (274) from San Diego, CA 3 years ago

Ans the tea party? Aren't they an organization?

[-] 2 points by FuManchu (619) 3 years ago

The OWS itself is an organization. What we dont want is an organization with an agenda for a particular political party. Right now, the tea party is pro republican. Not something we would want OWS to become.

[-] 1 points by TruePatriots (274) from San Diego, CA 3 years ago

That's the only thing we'll agree on. All I care about is changing the system and if Obama says he will do it i'll give him a second term to do it. I mean that's what we want right?

[-] 1 points by FuManchu (619) 3 years ago

Yes. If we can make sure that we put in checks and balances so that he cannot just get elected and go back to business as usual. In the end, 2012 election is going to result in someone being elected. Unless there is an OWS candidate, one of the current candidates will win. We need to make sure whoever it is understands the needs of OWS.

[-] 0 points by grepcat (121) 3 years ago

No, moveon.org are freakin idiots who will do nothing but steer OWS into the democrat gutter. There are no parties here. I subscribe to moveon.org emails for a good laugh. If I smell a party creeping in, I'm gone. The comments from Obama are really pissing me off. If anyone thinks Obama's "support" of the movement is a good thing you are living in a dream world. In the midst of his "support" is when he should be publicly disavowed by OWS. Dump Obama, watch the support swell. We do not need moveon.org or other shady organizations.

[-] 0 points by beardy (282) 3 years ago

moveon.org is funded by a 1%er

obvious obvious is obvious

[-] 0 points by EndTheFedNow (692) 3 years ago

I have not seen any other partisan petitions. I suspect this won't be the last, though.

We are a NON PARTISAN movement and we need to keep it that way. Lets not get hijacked! I also don't like be data mined and having someone sell MY personal info.

[-] 1 points by LetsGetReal (1420) from Grants, NM 3 years ago

I want to see it be a non-partisan movement too. It is the acceptance of an endorsement by MoveOn and its involvement and blurring of lines that creates the appearance, if not the reality, of a partisan movement.

If you really want a non-partisan movement, ask MoveOn to move out.

[-] 0 points by EndTheFedNow (692) 3 years ago

Totally agree. Once you go asking for endorsements, you're asking to be hijacked. MoveOn shouldn't even allowed to speak at any Occupy events. Individuals who may be members, sure, but not anyone speaking on behalf of the organization. All organizations have their own agendas.

[-] 0 points by CarryTheGripsUpToTheAttic (133) 3 years ago

I think the difference is this - we would absorb the libertarians, who would come aboard to assist with what needs help. Tasks they might be uniquely equipped to help with.

MoveOn.org seems the old school that would try to absorb US, for their own benefit.

[-] 1 points by e000 (371) 3 years ago

What tasks? What is it you want people to do, and specifically libertarians? What would they be uniquely equipped for?

[-] 1 points by moediggity (646) from Houston, TX 3 years ago

yeah and if it were us that they were listening to,I wouldn't have had to make this petition. I wouldn't have been a dick about it either by making this petition on their own site. call it an internet bitchslap. Im a big fan of irony.

[-] 2 points by CarryTheGripsUpToTheAttic (133) 3 years ago

Exactly.

Did they even ask us if they would be wanted here? No.

MoveOn is not passing "the smell test" with their behavior.

[-] 0 points by moediggity (646) from Houston, TX 3 years ago

Make one then!

[-] 3 points by coolnyc (216) from Stone Ridge, NY 3 years ago

support <> co-opt ; don't take your eye off the real bad guys

Co-opting is always a danger, but remember that it's in the 1%'s interest if we get distracted with internal politics. My take is that if we ever get the graft out of the election process, that includes not just Corps - but all PACs - including MoveOns. So yeah, we don't want them any where near this, but if they agree with some of the goals, take their support. They aren't the bad guys; they also aren't the solution. Occupy is the solution.

[-] 2 points by teaoccupyunited (146) 3 years ago

I agree this is why we are in the mess we are in!

Time to bring everything together in one voice!

http://www.teaoccupyunited.com

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 3 years ago

I tired of pretending the war ended with Bush

we have not moved on


[-] 2 points by Shule (2064) 3 years ago

MoveOn.org is bad news. They're subversive. Think what they did to the antiwar movement.

[-] 2 points by gersey (2) 3 years ago

i had some posts deleted from the occupy wall street facebook asking about this and as someone who's been down and spent a couple of nights in the park and marched and fully intends to even more in the future...and fully supports the movement and thinks it's amazing i was upset. i don;t like fox news...i don't like the koch brothers and don't support the tea party...i really have no beef with move-on. i had heard they supported obama...not sure if it's true but anyway fine. i assume a lot of people in the movement voted that way...we make mistakes...no big deal...but i do not see why move on.org has their logo on certain videos i've seen....i prefer not to be advertised in that manner. no other organazations have logo's on the site...is it neccesary...it would have been simple enough to remove it..obviously everyone is welcome at the movement and should be but if this becomes koch brothers vs. moveon...that's tragic...let's remember who our current president consults with...many goldman sachs boys....bernanke who both he and bush are on the record as saying "is a hero"...immelt...geithner...they both supported a bailout and now our fine president can detain and execute without trial...and that's okay why? because he says nice things?don't let this movement devolve into this sort of hypocrisy or you'll waste all the hard work

[-] 2 points by SanityScribe (452) 3 years ago

The group that organized this..Adbusters is from Canada. They are openly anti-capitalists. They started OWS.

http://www.adbusters.org/about/adbusters

http://activistcash.com/organization_overview.cfm/o/36-adbusters

However I see that the movement has attracted more then the anti-capitalists crowd. I'm not sure they counted on that. Now the people are taking notice of the movement. I am not surprised to see other political types try and step in. I think most PEOPLE involved in this movemenet will recognize that when they unleash that real agenda. I have witnessed the awakening of many people, who came here for information.

[-] 1 points by e000 (371) 3 years ago

Thanks for posting unbiased facts (the first piece). People don't do that often here, it seems to me. It also seems few people have taken the time to investigate this movement thoroughly. And many, (this is just my perspective now), appear to be jumping on the boat, trying to take over the wheel.

[-] 2 points by Democracydriven (658) 3 years ago

It's a free country and you don't have the right to exclude anyboy

Who woud be next

[-] 3 points by moediggity (646) from Houston, TX 3 years ago

Not if that organization is deliberately overstepping the boundaries of good taste and usurping our basic message and replacing it with our own. Jesus man, have you seen the videos of what they are trying to do to our movement? We have been praying for YEARS for something like this to happen and now these bastards think that they can just sneak in,under the guise of unity of all things, and deliberately co-opt our message and steal our movement? Thats like breaking into my house and robbing me of everything that I hold dear!

[-] 1 points by Democracydriven (658) 3 years ago

You obviously know more about them than me. I did go to their site earlier and I didn't get that impession you are portraying. It actually seemed like it was more exposure for the movement. I am sure they must have a huge email list.

But in all honesty I don't know much about them.

[-] 2 points by RichardGates (1529) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 3 years ago

everyone is welcome to participate. only the peoples voice speaks :)

[-] 4 points by moediggity (646) from Houston, TX 3 years ago

Yeah and we keep saying no to obama and ron paul but the others aren't listening. Im not going to support a movement that is a front for either candidate. they can both fuck off!

[-] 4 points by RichardGates (1529) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 3 years ago

don't cut your nose off to spite your face. everyone has a position and it will always, even if just a little, be dif. the lack of maturity displayed by not allowing others what you expect is the problem we have with our entire system. you cannot hope to fix that unless you accept it first and teach others the same tolerance. the divide created by the party lines at the moment is being used to keep the people from having large enough numbers at any one time to have an impact. thats why the media is tugging it both ways trying to tear it back apart.

[-] 1 points by moediggity (646) from Houston, TX 3 years ago

yeah and look at where our tolerance has gotten us. We because overconfident after we allowed those goons on that side and on the libertarian side onto here. We have said since day one "please leave your insert candidate here for president 2012 signs at home but they refuse to listen and even get outright angry about our refusal to just stand by like a bunch of sheep and let them deliberately co-opt our movement that we made for this message. If this is the only thing that will get thru to them, so be it. Im through playing nice.

[-] 2 points by RichardGates (1529) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 3 years ago

sounds like you have chosen a side, but hate people for choosing sides. don't know that your expectations are realistic. the best way to kill a goal is to make it unobtainable.

[-] 2 points by moediggity (646) from Houston, TX 3 years ago

I have chosen the OWS side! I choose to be the occupier, not the occupied!

[-] 1 points by e000 (371) 3 years ago

I have chosen the OWS side!

(as long as it's not libertarian)

Hehe, sorry, had to, after reading your earlier comment. In good intent - hopefully we can help each other figure this out.

Oh, not that I'm a Libertarian, just thought I would point it out. I prefer to be unaffiliated, as much as I can, and try to make the best choices based on the circumstances and my best knowledge at the time. That rarely allows me to fit into one party or mold.

[-] 2 points by aunice1 (8) 3 years ago

OWS could give a rats a** about Obama or any other candidate at this point. This movement is bigger than that, and if you haven't figured that out by now then you won't. We are a leaderless movement, period. Of course, you are going to have people crop up n say "OWS are behind Obama" or "OWS is backing Mit Romney" or "OWS is backing Ron Paul." People are going to try and do this.

That does not mean we are. That simply means that he or she may be as an individual. They do not speak for all of us, not by a long shot.

[-] 1 points by LetsGetReal (1420) from Grants, NM 3 years ago

II may be mistaken, but I didn't see any organizations with a history of backing Republican or Libertarian candidates listed on the OWS affiliation page.

[-] 2 points by Aenar (18) 3 years ago

MoveON sucks all the ass. It's a technoDemocrat pimp operation-part of the problem which is BUY POLITICIANS. Any lobby org is just part of the problem, whether they are on your team or NOT

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (9780) 3 years ago

Why so threatend? Nobody owns truth and justuce - all we can do is collectively try to attain those goals. The Goals are what matters. As long as people are helping, rather than hindering to attain those goals what's the problem? Do you think you own a struggle for truth and justice. Sorry, those things are a permanent part of the earthly struggle and will still be here long after you and I are dust.

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9780) 3 years ago

I did not post the above message. Someone has hacked into my account! Please ignore all further posts by GypsyKing!!!!!

[-] 1 points by Aenar (18) 3 years ago

What did you just say, it's so new age babblespeak. This is the problem with US politics-any movement(Teabag, ONY) gets co-opted by the traditional forces of evil. Wrapped up in their inept burrito, the movement gets crushed and smothered by deliberate bad execution. See Obummer

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (9780) 3 years ago

Isn't this really just "Us,VS.Them" thinking carried to it's extreme. It isn't about us vs. them; it's about us - all of us everywhere, who demand a better world?

[-] 1 points by Democracydriven (658) 3 years ago

That's the way I see it

[-] 1 points by Coyote88 (-24) 1 year ago

Hahahahahahaha.... Get a clue!

[-] 1 points by SpectreWriter (1) 3 years ago

We should welcome anything that empowers people, and be opposed to that which ignores other beings for the sake of profit, whether that comes from a person, a corporation, an organization...
OWS is itself an organization... and I hope it continues to be about empowering people. Telling us to tell others to leave when they're on our side is strike 1.

[-] 1 points by MossyOakMudslinger (106) from Frederick, MD 3 years ago

I can sympathize with the demand because I believe they will ultimately destroy the movement if they can.Thing is you really can't ask them to leave because that defeats the idea of OWS. What could be done is that during marches or whatever the protestors carry signs that say "OWS is not MoveOn.org"

[-] 1 points by synonymous (161) from New York, NY 3 years ago

who cares? Moveon.org is like a church bake sale compared to private interest groups...

[-] 1 points by WeUsAll (200) 3 years ago

Move On is not doing anything here, where is your location?

[-] 1 points by MossyOakMudslinger (106) from Frederick, MD 3 years ago

moediggity,

I haven't seen where this happened though I am not surprised by it. Could you please provide some specific examples.

[-] 1 points by peacejam (114) 3 years ago

I'd rather sign a more objective petition than this one though, sorry. I don't like the "ron paul zombies" line, and the fact it's not capitalized. if someone can recommend a different petition or way to protest Moveon's involvement, i'd like to know about it

[-] 1 points by peacejam (114) 3 years ago

I hope protesters are making anti-Moveon.org signs. Gag. They will get exposed for this.

[-] 1 points by SmallBizGuy (378) from Savannah, GA 3 years ago

Move on....Moveon

[-] 1 points by SolveEtCoagula (97) 3 years ago

some of this concern is a bit overstated, I think......many people have felt burned by Obama, and they are in OWS now.....they arent going to get fooled again....

[-] 1 points by IndyGuy (81) 3 years ago

You are wrong moediggity.

Obama connected organizations like MoveOn.org have always been involved in creating this so-called "movement".

The whole movement is nothing but a front to create an "enemy" of the people and reelect Obama.

[-] 1 points by moediggity (646) from Houston, TX 3 years ago

You are literally so full of shit that your eyes are brown. Obama had no involvement with this movement on any level. Adblocker started this thing up and we took it and ran with it. this belongs to us, not obama and the baby eating socialists that you were told to hate. Take your meds.

[-] 1 points by Democracydriven (658) 3 years ago

When they tried to exclude moveon.org I was silent ....................

[-] 1 points by LOVEPEACE (199) 3 years ago

No fear. Those pure and true will always speak for Truth. Those who speak for a larger cause will always be heard. No one can co opt truth and Peace. So do not waste your time trying to defend it. Your job is to realize that Peace and Truth cannot be stopped. Not that it is weak and can be defeated by fear.

[-] 2 points by e000 (371) 3 years ago

Uh, actually, I think peace and truth can be stopped, at least in the short term - that's why all these people are here, right?

[-] 1 points by LOVEPEACE (199) 3 years ago

No, they are here because they are recognizing it can't be stopped, despite the illusion that it had.

[-] 1 points by e000 (371) 3 years ago

:D It has been circumvented, though, yes? I mean, that's what everyone is so angry about, right? I'm not saying it will or won't prevail in the end, just saying it has in the past, and the current times, been circumvented or stymied. I mean, I'm pretty sure I don't live in a culture of complete truth and peace... You know what I'm saying?

[-] 0 points by LOVEPEACE (199) 3 years ago

Yes i know what you are saying, but everyone is waking up to Reality. That is what is going on.

Just a bad dream, everyone is shaking off the sleep :)

[-] 1 points by e000 (371) 3 years ago

Sorry, I am a bit of a dog for details. People abstract and generalize so often, sometimes in such a way as to obscure facts or deceive without overtly lying. I try to point this out, but sometimes maybe to little or no gain.

[-] 0 points by LOVEPEACE (199) 3 years ago

Abstraction is good, for most people the actual Truth is a completely abstract thing. It's beneficial to practice focusing on it, despite it being very difficult for most.

Truth is not factual, it is actual. And that is the same with Peace. If people would drop all the ideas of reform etc. and simply stand together and demand peace from those that oppose it we would see an unprecedented change in the world. Most of the issues would not exist if it weren't for the violent enforcement of the problems from those that insist on dominating. Logistically they need a massive framework of individuals and organizations expressing their domination out of FEAR. When people stand up and demand peace this framework begins to fall apart. And the logistical problems of expressing world domination become to much for the centralized power to manage. World domination is about VIOLENT threat. Nothing more. Do what i say or i will kill you. That is how it works. That is how the rigged economy works. There is no inherent value in US dollars anymore. Just threat of violence for non-participation.

[-] 1 points by JohnB (138) 3 years ago

The co-opting attempt has begun. Not sure how to stop it, other than massive social viral media condemning Moveon.org ASAP.

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by Frankie (733) 3 years ago

Howard Dean's group is ready to sell yard signs. LOL

Home » Occupy Wall Street Yard Signs

We're considering making Occupy Wall Street yard signs that you can put on your front lawn.

Would you buy a yard sign like the one below? Please take our short survey to let us know.

First Name *

Last Name *

Email Address *

Zip Code *

Would you buy a yard sign like the one here for $14? Yes No Not Sure

Would you put it somewhere visible? Yes No Not Sure

Would you buy a pack of 5 lawn signs for $60? Yes - Definitely No - Definitely not Maybe

http://www.democracyforamerica.com/activities/635?akid=1400.1574445.C7OweO&rd=1&t=1>

[-] 1 points by moediggity (646) from Houston, TX 3 years ago

As long as there isn't a re-elect obama 2012 I won't have a problem with it. But if you buy from them,expect your money to eventually end up in obamas pockets. But hey, thats the choice you make. Then again,we can just make our own signs our selves and "ask for donations" for them.

[-] 0 points by Dost (315) 3 years ago

Moveon.org is an ally. We need all the support we can get and Moveon/org is a decent group. The art of politics is to build an alliance. Too many young idealists here that are very naive. Points to the fact that this Movement needs organization.

[-] 0 points by moediggity (646) from Houston, TX 3 years ago

hey we have asked them to fuck off with the re-elect obama 2012 bullshit. so since they won't listen,its time for them to go!

[-] 1 points by Dost (315) 3 years ago

Sorry, don' think you should do that unless I am missing something. They are free to talk to whom they want. Tell me whom you speak for, who do you represent? I was under the impression there is no formal structure, leadership, basic principles. I don't even like Moveon.org and didn't vote for Obama and understand how you feel but people are free to talk to others and those whom they talk to are free to engage if they want. It seems to be a question of two parties wanting a dialogue. Clarify for me why exactly you want to prohibit what seems to be free speech.

[-] 1 points by moediggity (646) from Houston, TX 3 years ago

The movement is non-partisan. we do not,in any way,shape or form endorse any candidate whatsoever. We have asked them to fall within the basic parameters of these very basic requests, and yet they refuse to even oblige us. We don't care who you vote for or who you talk to at the movement about voting. However, to hijack the press and paint OWS as pro-obama is over the line and we will no longer tolerate it anymore. Now the libertarians have not been as bad, but thats coming to a head soon if they don't "get with the program.

[-] 1 points by Dost (315) 3 years ago

Absolutely agree that is why you need spokepersons, in my humble opinion.

[-] 1 points by moediggity (646) from Houston, TX 3 years ago

yeah we are trying to do that but the people that run this forum and the people at moveon.org will not come here and speak to us at all. its getting quite irritating. Im not letting this movement out of our hands. Ill fight this by myself in need be.

[-] 1 points by Dost (315) 3 years ago

you know at some point, all the other groups meeting in different cities could form their own organization and develop a set of principles to which they can agree, develop an organization and structure, etc. I mean the whole thing is quite open-ended. It seems that everybody is a spokeperson which then means nobody is a spokesperson. If you accept 99%, then really what do you stand for? I am being serious here and logical? I doubt that 99% of the people would agree on anything. I can tell you unequivocally that not even 99% are frustrated with the system. Many are not frustrated at all and most do not or have not even thought about it. I daresay that many in this group who want to be all-inclusive would condemn some of what they might read here, for example, the anti-semitic remarks. When you think about all the Movements of the past 50 years or even 100 years, I do not know of what that did not have a core set of values, principles or a program to pursue. Looking at the ones which were successful for example: Women's Suffrage, Workers Rights, CIvil Rights, Vietnam AntiWar Movement, Gay Rights, Womens Rights, etc. The common denominator of this group is what? Can you tell me? I might say Anti-1% or Anti-Wall Street or Anti-Greedy Wall Street? Would you say Anti-Corporation? What about all the Neo-Liberals, the Libertarians, etc. would they agree> Don't think so. At some point, the issue will come to a head and if the Movement wants to move forward, it will fracture and the conservatives or at least some of then will leave and the idealists and utopian thinkers will then get pissed and maybe leave and finally, if enough people are still interested, they will get real and start to form an organization, etc. That's just my prediction. I understand there is a learning curve here and it is great that another generation might want to develop and go through this all by themselves. I just hope those who are experienced, who have experience and much to offer will still be around because, like me, they might lose their patience and just go on to something else. We'll have to see what happens in the next six month. All I can say is, if the economy collapses in the next year or so, it would be great if we had an organization in place with leadership and a structure and a 1000 chapters across the country otherwise, we may be at the same place, demonstrating in the streets which may not be all bad, whose to say.

[-] 1 points by Dost (315) 3 years ago

To e000 below: In reference to my suggestion for an Nationwide Organization with 1000 Chapters, I suggest the following.

Develop a Basic Platform of Principles Around which the Majority would agree. I have suggested four Reforms on this site (more details to come later): 1) Reform Tax System & use money to finance jobs, education and retraining; 2) Reform Wall St., Banks and other aspects of Financial System (others have detailed this on this site); 3) Reform Electoral system (I suggest a Voters Bill of Rights consisting of 10 or 11 major reforms including Public Financing of Elections, Voting on Sundays, Paper Trail, etc.---Note: this legitimizes what is obviously otherwise a flawed and corrupt system where votes mean next to nothing); 4) Reform Legislative Process in Congress getting rid of worst abuses such as filibuster

Once you have agreement on basic Platform you develop basic structure of organization which would consist of Chapters nationwide. Each chapter is responsible for its own membership. Members would pay annual dues, sliding scale, $10-$50 or whatever-nominal commitment for which members can receive a membership card with Reforms listed. The point of the chapters would be to Communicate and Educate to attract more members. Chapters would meet weekly or monthly and do education which I see as main function. SIDEBAR HERE: If we are to be serious, education is crucial as we want all members to be informed as to what our critique of the society, economy and political system is and why. We need the facts and arguments. We can develop a website and literature to explain different aspects of our analysis including detailed explanation of the reasons for the Reforms and the details of each.

For meetings, we have a process with some fundamental parliamentary rules. Proposals, discussions (limited or to be tabled if vote is not ready given what majority feel). I do not advocate consensus unless it is modified (60-75%) as unanimity is not practical and there are other problems with it as well (e.g. an infiltrator or a difficult person can block everything). Each chapter is independent but agrees to basic platform. At some point, each chapter depending on numbers, selects a spokesperson who would be sent to regional and national Congress to represent chapter.

I advocate for Direct and Smart Actions to heighten visibility of cause such as what is coming on right now. We need creative and sustained presence. Focus needs to be on purely Domestic issues including ending wars of course. But, let's stay away from foreign policy for now. The immediate need is to focus on domestic issues which all point to corrupt, dysfunctional and unfair socio-economic-political system.

We can build Movement of millions and focus on a major boycott of banks, of the financial system. We can organize a Massive March and Non-violent protest in the Capitol. We can have a Work stoppage Day, etc.

The goal of the organization would be to achieve the Four Reforms listing above. We can tackle them as a group or individually. There are only three options. One, we build the movement to such a level that we convince the legislators to do something. This would require the immediate reform within the legislature of banning the filibuster and other parliamentary reforms. Before we can achieve ANYTHING, that one change has to occur. Two, we can support candidates or a Party (Democrats, logically, at least for me) and push for Progressive candidates. Three, we form our own Party and run for Congress. Four, we organize a Boycott of Elections to drum up support for our cause, attract attention and focus on dysfunction and corruption of present system. Five, we engage in long-term Non-violent, non-cooperation to push the agenda forward. This has to be sustained by massive numbers of people; Six, we orient for a rebellion and revolution.

I suggest all forms of protests such as Boycotts & Non-cooperation with the system for now and see where that leads.

The idea of forming 1000 or more chapters gives us a great goal and would test our: 1) Determination; 2) Commitment; 3) Organization; 4) and Dedication. Personally, a totally amorphous Movement with no leadership and organization seems totally suspect. I would think the momentum would be loss at some point. Typically, people get all emotional and eventually it wanes. But, if things are to get a lot worse, we need to be able to channel the emotion, the dis-satisfaction, the anger, the suffering, into the appropriate channels and that is what an organization is all about. It is what Unions, the Suffrage Movement, the Civil rights Movement and the Vietnam Anit-War Movement were all about. Screaming, yelling, protesting are great but we need a focus and an organization helps to educate, explain and build the numbers for that focus.

Lots more to say but I have other obligations, like trying to get a job.

[-] 1 points by e000 (371) 3 years ago

All I can say is, if the economy collapses in the next year or so, it would be great if we had an organization in place with leadership and a structure and a 1000 chapters across the country

What kind of organization? What do you want from it?

[-] 0 points by humboldt11 (11) 3 years ago

The paragraph on the right is very unprofessional . Rewrite it when you're not so emotional. Leave out the bit on the trolls etc. Very unprofessional.

[-] 0 points by moediggity (646) from Houston, TX 3 years ago

deal with it.

[-] 0 points by howRya (42) 3 years ago

I wouldn't be surprised to find out that MoveOn was in on this movement from the beginning. If this turns out to be the case then MoveOn IS the voice and, therefore, cannot and will not be silenced.

[-] 2 points by LetsGetReal (1420) from Grants, NM 3 years ago

True, yet if people leave OWS in droves to form a new movement, that could be the next stage of creating something real and unifying.

[-] 1 points by Aenar (18) 3 years ago

Get real, MoveOn is too conventional

[-] 1 points by howRya (42) 3 years ago

For you maybe. :)

Peace.

[-] -1 points by Nicolas (258) from Québec, QC 3 years ago

Meh. It's okay that they voice our concerns. Just as long as they understand the relationship : WE feed them the lines. As numbers and importance grow, attempts at recuperation are inevitable. And that's okay, as long as it is US forcing them to talk our talk and that they also walk our walk.

I agree on this though : this cannot be made to be about electing someone or other. Strictly speaking, I don't think #OWS as a whole does or should give a fuck about who is in office. #OWS demands reforms and policies. It will not find victory in an election but in the passing of laws.

Maybe neither of the two parties can do that. Maybe a third is needed. Maybe not. Whatever the result of the next election, #OWS' reaction should not be "YEAH!" or "BOOH!", but : "Cool. Reforms now. We're still waiting."

... Okay, "YEAH!!!" is fine in the event of a third party victory.

[-] -3 points by Fedup10 (228) 3 years ago

Now you all have credibity!

[-] 0 points by moediggity (646) from Houston, TX 3 years ago

I have submitted this a week ago.I'm just re-posting it again.