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Forum Post: For those Screaming for Free Education/ University

Posted 7 years ago on May 4, 2012, 12:44 p.m. EST by ikki6 (11)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

do you guys really understand what you are asking? Most of you will probably try to counter my by saying "Oh these countries already get if for free such as Germany, Sweden, Etc. but the question is, is it really free? No it isn't, it will still need to be paid for by someone which will end up being the government. Now, for the government to pay for this, they will need the money to do so, how will they do this, raise your taxes because the money won't just pop out. if you don't believe me, go take a look at those countries that have that free education. Their taxes for personal are 15%-20% higher than you if not more so that is like if you make $50,000 a year, that is pretty much paying $7,500 - $10,000 a year. Here is a graph for you if you are too lazy to look it up (yes, this is 2005 data but still)


now, look at Germany, Sweden, and Belgium. Places where University is free. They are paying a hell of a lot more taxes than you. Now, are you prepared to pay that kind of tax for the rest of your lives or would you rather pay it for 4 years or whatever pay it off and then make more money in the long run?

You guys really need to start thinking instead of looking at the top layer before making statements and demands.



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[-] 3 points by markpaddles (143) from Denver, CO 7 years ago

Well, in Sweden the tax rates for people making average salaries (their middle class) are about the same as what we pay here. It's not until you make much larger yearly incomes that they start paying higher tax rates. (this information comes from a Swedish friend I work with who moved here last year... and no, she didn't leave because it was so difficult to pay all those taxes... the love of her life is from the US)

The other big difference is that they actually get something for their taxes (health care, education, unemployment, sick leave, maternity leave) and most people are fine with their tax rates because it benefits the common good of their society. There is actually a true sense of equal opportunity in that everybody gets a fair chance and the opportunity to make something for their lives. Whereas in the US, a huge quantity of our taxes mainly go towards subsidizing large corporations, bailing out corrupt banking institutions and paying for an Empire that wages illegal wars and needs money to maintain over 800 military bases throughout the world.

She also told me that not everything is peachy over there and they have their issues too, but over all it is a society where people actually care about each other.

[-] 2 points by grapes (5232) 5 years ago

There is NO need to increase U.S. taxes to pay for world-class higher education. Many foreign countries are offering free or low-cost higher education for foreigners in English: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/10/29/7-countries-where-americans-can-study-at-universities-in-english-for-free-or-almost-free/?tid=hybrid_1.0_strip_2

It is about time that the U.S. becomes an exporter of brains as academic refugees due to financing difficulties.

[-] 2 points by PublicCurrency (1387) 7 years ago

Only one state, North Dakota, has a budget surplus and it is more than $1.5 billion. What makes North Dakota different is that they have a state-owned bank. The advantage of a state-owned bank is to return profits to the public and/or minimize borrowing costs for the state and whatever portion of the public the state chooses as borrowers (North Dakota provides credit at the lowest costs for student loans and to farmers, for example).

Banks legally create credit out of nothing as a fraction of their assets (to simplify). Any state could record state assets (state receipts, buildings, land, etc.) on their accounting books and create credit from their value. Although different from most peoples’ misunderstanding, banks do not lend what depositors have put in the bank. Therefore, states are not “risking” assets through loans; they are legally entitled to create credit out of thin air. This is verified by the Federal Reserve’s Publication, “Modern Money Mechanics” and explained in its crucial details in my brief. Excerpts:

“The purpose of this booklet is to describe the basic process of money creation in a ‘fractional reserve’ banking system…The actual process of money creation takes place primarily in banks.”

“[Banks] do not really pay out loans from the money they receive as deposits. If they did this, no additional money would be created. What they do when they make loans is to accept promissory notes in exchange for credits to the borrower’ transaction accounts. Loans (assets) and deposits (liabilities) both rise by [the amount of the "loan"]."

What does this mean? It means that intelligent state legislators can immediately authorize their own bank, issue credit to themselves at 0% interest to purchase their outstanding debt, and immediately save themselves borrowing costs.


[-] 1 points by gestopomillyy (1695) 7 years ago

free.. cause with the fraud, greed and idiocy of the job creators.. there wont (aren't)be any jobs to pay it off with. still want to be educated though.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 7 years ago

in a land where the bulk of the people are fed by farms,

there is time and resource to pursue education

[-] -1 points by SteveKJR (-497) 7 years ago

You will find that there will be people out there who will say they don't mind paying more taxes - why - because they don't own anything right now so it's easy for them to say that.

Put a monthly mortgage, car note, cable television, IPOD, internet, insurance, food, clothing on their tab and then lets see what they have to say.

[-] -1 points by XenuLives (1645) from Charlotte, NC 7 years ago

I would be more than welcome to paying more taxes if it made that much of a positive difference in Americans' lives.

[-] 1 points by ikki6 (11) 7 years ago

would it really though? how long do you think it is going to take before people start complaining about the taxes especially when they realize they are paying pretty much the cost of a person tuition a year (not a super high class university cost))? Even now they are complaining about the cost of taxes, what do you think raising them 15-20% more will do?

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 7 years ago

keep the rich in position

they need to play along with current economic rules

or face breaking the system

[-] -1 points by XenuLives (1645) from Charlotte, NC 7 years ago

Who cares if people don't like the taxes? No one likes taxes, but if they're being used for the greater good then they are worth collecting.

[-] 1 points by ikki6 (11) 7 years ago

so, as an average salary of $50,000 per year, you'd be willing to pay $7,500 - $10,000 more each year in taxes just so that people can go for a free University? I'm not sure about you but I'd rather pay the tuition for 4 years of about $50,000 (decent university, not including living costs) because if the tax was raised, after 5-7 years I'd be paying more than what I would have plus I'd be paying for other people in which they could possibly be blowing it off but not actually doing what they should be in school. Like look at the public school system as it is, you have teenagers that just blow off school like it is nothing, would you want your money going towards that?

[-] 1 points by XenuLives (1645) from Charlotte, NC 7 years ago

You are making a generalization about an entire group of people without any supporting evidence. Prove your claims that people are "blowing off" school.

[-] 1 points by XenuLives (1645) from Charlotte, NC 7 years ago

Its not the students, its the teachers that need to change. From your article:

"The second big thing we need to change is the people we attract into teaching. When McKinsey and Company compared educational performance around the world, it came to the seemingly obvious, yet often disputed, conclusion that “the quality of an education system cannot exceed the quality of its teachers”:

The top-performing school systems [internationally] attract more able people into the teaching profession, leading to better student outcomes … The top-performing systems we studied recruit their teachers from the top third of each cohort [that graduates] from their school system … Conversely, lower-performing school systems rarely attract the right people into teaching. The New Commission on the Skills of the American Workforce observes that, “We are now recruiting our teachers from the bottom third of high-school students going to college.” 

By recruiting teachers mostly from the middle and bottom of their college classes, as America has done for decades now, not only did we not get the talent we needed, but we also fostered a culture where excellence and merit don’t matter.

A rational compensation scheme is critical to fixing this core human-capital weakness: rather than just pay for longevity and lifetime benefits, we must reward excellence and enable the system to meet its needs. If, going forward, we eliminated all the automatic raises and promises of huge lifetime benefits, we’d have an enormous amount of money to devote to merit pay, hardship-assignment incentives, and recruiting in subjects where we have shortages. If we could front-load compensation, new teachers could get as much as $80,000 by year three or four."

[-] 2 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 7 years ago

It would probably help if we returned to rewarding performance in general, teachers and students. I think the PTB don't want us to excel, they want a population of 'average' workers. Consider the trend of late in giving everyone on the team a trophy under the guise of not wanting to hurt their feelings. The player that contributes nothing to the win gets the same as the player who gave it their all.

[-] 1 points by ikki6 (11) 7 years ago

yes I will agree that some teachers will need to change and that some are bad, I have experienced them myself but you cannot just put all the blame on teachers. The students are the blame here as well. you should have seen in while you were in school as well


[-] -1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 7 years ago

High school is free, and its pathetic how these kids are performing. No point in worrying about college until we address the main issue:

Why doesnt America care about education?

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 7 years ago

america cares about education

[-] 0 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 7 years ago

I think our global scores prove differently. I should have said its not a priority.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 7 years ago

fair enough

[-] 0 points by chatman (-478) 7 years ago

it's a priority for some and not for others. That's the beauty of a free country. You can lead a horse to water but you cant make him drink. We spend more on primary education (K-12) than anywhere in the world - why the dismal results? NYS spends 18k per student per year. Are you telling me money is the problem? http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/27/of-all-states-new-york-schools-spend-most-money-per-pupil/

[-] -1 points by SteveKJR (-497) 7 years ago

If America cared about education they would stop brainwashing the younger generation into thinking that the government is their mother and father instead of learning how to "think for themselves"

[-] 1 points by elf3 (4068) 5 years ago

that we don't think for ourselves is propaganda...so wherdyha get that idea? The fact that we would cry for help has more to do with the fact that cirporations paid our government to force us into being reliant. Americans are crying out for self reliance ...that's why we are fighting with wallstreet, monopolies and banks. They stole our self reliance , they dominate the markets, they limit choice, and horde our resources then make us buy them back for a ransom price. We want help getting WallStreet off our backs and markets...kind of hard to do when ws bought our government. We are demanding our politicians refuse to sell. In the meantime...they owe us the difference. From bailouts to subsidies...to tax codes and lobbying...we aren't on the take we just want to take back what they stole!

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 5 years ago

Wall Street fuk'ed our brains out so if we export enough brains to other countries, Wall Street will have nothing but itself to fuk. Globalization's problems may be solved by even more globalization but on a different side.

[-] 0 points by SteveKJR (-497) 7 years ago

America does care about education - they think that the school that their kids go to should teach them about life, nurture them, feed them, shelter them and keep them out of trouble.

Why do you think the costs have increased so much in the last 10 years. It's not because it's going to education - it's going elswhere.


[-] -2 points by chatman (-478) 7 years ago

good point - do we want colleges to perform like primary public school? Stop with the everything for free mentality already!!!! it's killing me !

[-] 1 points by elf3 (4068) 5 years ago

We already pay enough in taxes to fund so much good the problem is how it is being spent. Our checks and balances have been whittled away. Regulatory boards are stacked with former ceo's. The decision makers who control our pooled tax funds have lobbyists and war profiteers in their pockets. Public workers all want a piece too. People treat our tax money like it fell from the heavens. They don't make the association that it came from the people...that it must be spent wisely and with care and spread as far as it can be. There is so much corruption. This is our money. There is basically just massive embezzlement and no accountability. From Haliburton to yes welfare fraud...what is the answer. What has changed? Are people getting more greedy? Is there less honesty in the world? How do you fix it? Do you punish everyone? All those good peope who paid in so trustingly? Do you take away the things they thought they were funding? Like roads and plowing, or education and libraries? What were taxes designed to do...what should they do...why are there different rules for different people...or corporations...why is the system broken? How can we fix it? I say start where you can...a lot of the corruption can be traced and traced right to banks and wallstreet bribing our government...so it's as good place to start as any. Want to join us? It's not as chaotic as it seems...it is really quite simple...go after those we can and make an example...if wallstreet wants to merger with our government we riot we riot and boycott and out the corrupt politicians, lobbyists, the former ceo's...go after them all out them and relentlessly pursue them until justice is done and make an example so large others will fear us and be to afraid to do it themselves.


[-] 0 points by agnosticnixie (17) from Laval, QC 7 years ago

Indeed, the problem is not with public schools here, however. The problem is with americans not being able to organize a damn thing. A whole fucking nation of self-centered flakes. Other countries' public education does fine, often better than even american private schools.

[+] -4 points by chatman (-478) 7 years ago

then MOVE!

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33801) from Coon Rapids, MN 7 years ago

Fuck you hole digger.[-] -1 points by chatman (-406) 6 minutes ago


[-] -1 points by chatman (-478) 7 years ago

yea - thats a compliment. thanks lol!

[-] 0 points by agnosticnixie (17) from Laval, QC 7 years ago

I'm not studying in the US, but many people are caught in the system. I was merely being glib since, effectively, the failure of public education doesn't reflect badly so much on the concept, which is proven in many countries, but on the people organizing it. American bureaucracy is starting to make the post Stalin soviet union look good.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33801) from Coon Rapids, MN 7 years ago

A sad sad truth.