Forum Post: Flattered Rebutal to: Who else-here-thinks-jiffysquid92-is-getting-out of Control?
Posted 12 years ago on May 31, 2012, 2:44 a.m. EST by JIFFYSQUID92
(-994)
from Portland, OR
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Don't hate me because I'm beautiful, hate me because I am a King-Con Killer!
I am sooooo flattered!! I welcome your hatred! I relish it! I rejoice in your attempt to silence me!! I revel in the discomfort I cause you!!! No one hates you more, will work harder, and knows your shit better than I do!!! BRING IT ON!!!
[But I will post my own thread for my rebuttal ~ TROLLS!!!]
I do draw a lot of fire, I lost two thirds of my Brownie Points in one "When Zombie Cons Attack" night, last week. "Bots"?
What must I be doing wrong??
Showing the alliance of Big Money (1% would-be Kings) and the RepubliCon Cult they own.
Revealing the COVERT class war King-Cons are waging on the rest of us 99%, People.
Pointing out, contrary to rose-colored-bubble innocents, OWS was inspired by the Koch-Con Occupation of Wisconsin and the defiance of the People, a classic Partisan Political struggle.
Explaining that our political system is not broken it is fixed, mostly because we turned our back on it. That if we engaged in our political system we could use this weapon to win our democracy back.
Showing the solution is not shunning politics ~ like the King-Cons have grown accustomed to ~ but to use our democracy as we were meant to do and Vote the dirty King-Con bastards out of "OUR" great government.
Bringing to light that the obvious choice is the Democratic Party. Even though they have been forced to grub for money by our own abject (lowest voter turnout) neglect.
Exposing that Obama could have done much more if he didn't have a constituency as reliable as puppy-mill poodles (2010) and a RepubliCon opposition that has sabotaged, blackmailed, and held the country hostage over everything he and Dems have tried to do to repair the national destruction left by the last King-Con administration.
Affirming that with our participation in our democracy we can keep the King-Cons at bay and improve our government by getting the money out, ending these bogus wars, and prioritizing the 99% People over the 1% would-be Kings.
I don't even know how to "Shadow Ban" anybody, nor would I. The idiotic posts and replies by the Zombie Cons is the best argument against them, even when they act like OWS aficionados.
I'm sure I'm leaving something out, and for that I am sorry. I hereby promise to do better on all my proceeding posts and replies. Please dig deep, DEEP, in your hearts... sorry, Bank Accounts, and try to forgive me... nah, show me the hate, keep on hate'n, Hate all over me!!
You come off as a raging authoritarian hard-on... keep on stroking it, bro.
Whatev, sweet pea.
Get OUT the Vote in Wisconsin, TUESDAY!!
I don't live in WI, so I can't get out that vote. Keep on stroking it, bro...
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Keep on keeping on, hopeless!
Put in in all caps. Shout it! SAY IT LOUDER!
Maybe it will come true if you wish for it hard enough. ROFL
So UR against democracy?
Right on, dude...
You don't represent democracy. You represent whine.
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Trash the Republicans. Then go on a REpublican chat site and see them doing the same thing to the Dems.
Then take about 15 steps back and watch each side have the eXACT same reaction for the last....um how long have you been alive...years.
Then ask yourself if this system could possibly be bigger than D vs R nonsense.
You nailed it.
Just had a totally meaningless exchange with "hchc." He approached me with what seemed like a spark to learn something, but after a couple simplistic exchanges, he went totally flaccid with cluelessness and had to flee. I find a lot of that. Rose colored bubblehead rebels without a fucking clue! Is this the product of "No Child Left Behind"?? Or just RW bible camp troll graduates? Say that a couple times, kinda has a nice feel. He he...
Everyone here knows you and a few others are the real morons of the country, spewing your pre-established nonsense.
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And when you get done doin' all that, maybe you could take a minute to decide if you want to try and change things or just bitch about them.
If you want to change things, maybe you should take a minute and pay attention to a thing or two first. Might help you decide what the best thing to do is, maybe you might figure out who’s causin' the problems so you can get them out of the way.
Oh yeah, we did that already, that's why we're getting rid of the GOP!
Well they certainly have you fooled.....
Go participate with OWS, on a weekly basis. That is where the change comes from, but we all know you dont do that. You've admitted it before.
If you consider trolling to the polls and pulling the lever for a lesser of two idiots ONCE EVERY TWO YEARS doing something, well.....
Since it’s personal and let’s make it easy for people:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/search/?q=user%3Ahchc
http://occupywallst.org/forum/search/?q=user%3Afactsrfun
still hoping you can fool some people with your non arugment? since if anybody thinks for two seconds about what you say they will know your real purpose
no you don't troll
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Is that really your best shot at analyzing the state of our politics?
See "Idiocracy," we are living it.
Yeah, parties argue. Get informed so you see who's lying.
Big differences between the parties, PEOPLE!!
Citizens United, Voter Suppression, and the WARS on women, gays, minorities and the 99%, are just starters in the world of differences!!! (These are RepubliCon Policies)
The parties generally dont argue too much, most of the power players from each side are friends with each other.
The one thing they both have in common- neither side will deal with the big issues, they just string us along with the minor stuff, treating it like its WWIII.
I see you have picked up a few cute names for Republicans from a couple other posters here. Cute names for the other side is something else you will find on conservative sites as well.
Yet another similarity in two sides that cant quite see forest through the trees.
You speak in simple generalities. But all my "cute names" are my own.
Though, you did stumble on one thing that you don't seem to understand: big topics/issues. But you can't even see the trees for your knees!
Politicians often address the Bigs, but they usually don't have a lot of control over them. Cons seem to have more control because they are owned by the people who have that control.
But I listed Bigs that they do have control over, and you ignored them. So what is your deal? Do you even know?
You;re right, you have the answers. Lets stop this now, Im not discussing things with pre-programmed voters.
You don't know, I thought so.
If you didn't hear this it's good.
http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2012-05-07/thomas-mann-and-norman-ornstein-its-even-worse-it-looks
Whoops! There goes more of my Brownie Points!!
Where's Gypsyking when you need a brownie point campaign!!
Gone for good, one would hope. You should follow his lead and take your meaningless "brownie point campaigns" with you...
Bring It! Zombie TROLL!! I relish you hatred!!
And I LOVE your idiotic posts!!!!
the orator that every one sings to
they are like all over you, do you think it's something you said?
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/05/30/1095935/-Breaking-Bill-Clinton-is-finding-his-comfortable-shoes-to-come-to-Wisconsin
Bubba's gonna get all Monica on Snotty Walker's ass!! HE HAW!!
You can help.
Just had a totally meaningless exchange with "hchc." He approached me with what seemed like a spark to learn something, but after a couple simplistic exchanges, he went totally flaccid with cluelessness and had to flee. I find a lot of that. Rose colored bubblehead rebels without a fucking clue! Is this the product of "No Child Left Behind"?? Or just RW bible camp troll graduates? Say that a couple times, kinda has a nice feel. He he..,
he's pure troll
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OMFG!!! I am sooooooooo done with NPR, it just gives me the fucking creeps to hear the bumper music, so sick of the pompous, elitist, inept and inane unctuousness oozing out my speakers. "Dyspeptic" ??!! Save me from drool!!!
I dumped them during the miserable 2004 elections. I was an NPR head, too. Air America!! Janeane Garofalo and Sam Seder, saved me! as did Rachel Madow, Randi Rhodes, Thom Hartmann, and many others that are gone and still there, although AAR died a miserable death. Bill Press has a better book on the unprecedented vitriol of Cons in Congress today, and he calls the CRAZED BASTARDS, CRAZED BASTARDS!!! http://www.billpressshow.com/2012/03/27/obama-hate-machine-order-signed-personalized-copy-now/
God that NPR bumper music!!! ACHKKKK!!! I'll take all the crass commercials over that anytime!! Gotta dump the staid, inane, blandio!! No idea where you are (where are you?) but I'm sure there is either a Prog-Talk station or you can listen on line. Mine is both, http://www.620kpoj.com/main.html Get with it old man!
I'm not convinced. You're just here to co-opt the protest and turn it into a pro-Democrat front. OWS protesters spend their days protesting against the current government (Obama), and you spend your days providing free adverts for them. That makes no sense, hence you are not a supporter of OWS. Either you don't understand OWS, or you are paid by Obama.
Very few of the OWS people in NYC that I know even go on this forum. I think they view it as a playground for us. There is a huge disconnect between the arm chair warriors here who are trying to make this a partisan battle, and the people out there that are making the real difference.
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So true, so true, People here are living a fantasy. They spend their days on this forum exchanging with 10 other people, always the same. When they agree they give each other high fives, and when they disagree with someone they call him a troll. These people think they are changing America as we speak. People like DKAtoday. In 30 years, he'll say to his grandchildren - "I was there, at OWS. Right on the front lines. I exchanged ideas with GypsyKing, and others." What he won't say is that he never even went to a GA and has no idea how they work, and never once protested in the street. Sad indeed.
On my once a week visits to NYC (disobedience class this sat), i have taken part in at least 12 marches or demonstrations, 6 OTS events, and have had many conversations with some really interesting people, including Phil Rokstroh. Anyway I do not remember one person advocating for a Presidential campaign, except for perhaps in early Nov when there was a guy carrying a Paul sign.
I do think that most of the people that are here promoting partisan politics are doing so because their hatred of the repubs is more than the anger that they should have for the whole system. Dems vs repubs is the only 'ring' that they have been in, like me. And yes, it is amusing to me that they feel that they are doing their part simply by being here on this forum, and sending out a few letters, or signing a couple of petitions. See you in jail, maybe. lol
I have a theory that most of the hardcore democrats on here are baby boomers and most of the people on here that are more radical are in the 35 and under crowd. I think its some sort of generational thing. They seem to be wedded to the democrats and the system while people in my generation are sick of the same old shit over and over. Of course I think some of them may be straight up democratic establishment plants . Like the ones you were just debating. For godsake some of them sound like robots.
Sorry to fly in the face of your theory about "baby boomers" and "under 35 crowd." I am a grandpa, so back to the drawing boards for you. lol I fully respect that this is your generation's revolution as you guys have the most to lose if things continue as they have been. I am the father of three enlightened daughters, One who attended McGill in Montreal (grad in UAA in Anchorage recently), and the other graduated magna cum laude from Fordham Lincoln Center Campus. So when we were at Rockefeller Center the other night chanting, "from Montreal to NYC....", that felt especially close to home for me.
As i said in another post, at the finish of our protest by a fountain at a little public space, we were surrounded by the NYPD. Knowing i had a captive audience, I asked two different groups of cops, at different times, 'do you think that you will be able to pay off two university educations on your blue-collar salary as my wife and i did?' Some turned away...some i could see the answer in their eyes...and one gave me a quiet thank you.
Well I guess there are a few exceptions like you. Cool story about the cops.
Thanks, the story is true....hope I don't get all mature in my old age. lol
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Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I disagree with your opinion as to what OWS protesters spend their days doing. Most that I meet on my frequent visits are anti citizens united/corp personhood, pro healthcare public option, pro strong fin regulations, pro tax increases on the wealthy. pro gay rights, pro immigration reform, The issues are the common denominator. Founders may want to remake from scratch. But the protesters I've met and heard want to reform in order to correct these issues! The dems can be made to serve the 99% The repubs are too far gone. Support OWS. Vote out pro Norquist, anti Buffett rule politicians.
If you want to be an Obamaian and go around the net advertising for his party that's fine, but you are not an OWS protester. OWS protesters protest against the current government everyday. They protest against the Democrats, and they protest against the Republicans. They are all crooks.
I am an OWS protester. I meet like minded protesters all the time. We believe both parties are corrupt. We do not believe the parties are the same. When the issues are honestly considered we see one supports raising taxes on the 1%, the other has stated they would cut the 1% taxes and take the money to do it from the elderly and poor!. The issues that hurt the 99% is what matters to me. OWS has protested against issues like corp personhood/citizens united. I see one party for that, one against. I don't speak for any one at OWS. But I don't see a lot of people who don't acknowledge the reality that one party can be made to serve the 99%. The other is too far gone. Everyone must consider the issues that matter to them, analyse their candidates and vote their interests. Do not throw away your vote it is what the 1% want. Do not vote for interestsof the 1%. Support OWS Vote out pro citizens united, pro corp personhood politicians. You disagree? Why?
I respect the fact that you are an OWS protester, like me. The question, and difference between us perhaps is, 'how much of our energies should we put into politics at his point, and how much energy do we lose by making this political? There is where we differ, I think.
It's just that there is an election in 5 mos. I cannot let right wing efforts pass. I think not voting/3rd party voting/no consent is what the 1% wants. We must consider the issues that matterto us. Analyze our candidates and vote for those that support us. Then we must turn up the heat. Constant protest/pressure on all pols. It is our only hope. This election will not give us everything we need. Itwill take years to succeed. But we cannot go backwards by giving the right wing 1% more power.
I think the 1% wants us to think that we really have a choice between Obama, and Romney. Imagine if thirty years ago, people had started voting for a third party. That party would we an institution today.The more effort we put into the election, the more it takes the fire away from our struggle. We should be emulating Quebec. Do you think that draconian Bill 78 will survive? I gotta go out now. See you later.
30 years ago we had anderson as a third party candidate he got nothing our system is slanted against such success. It will take years to correct the 2 party duopoly. We must 1st get money out of politics. Change the primary system that mostly favors the 2 parties, and madate that all citizens vote. So lets Vote out the anti 99% politicians and work towards the very goals that would allow a 3rd party to have a chance. Don't give power to the 1% pols who would benefit by progressives thowing their votes away.
Voting will not solve our problems...not at this point. That does not mean that I will not vote though. I will concentrate more of my efforts in the streets. The people out there are the true heroes of this revolution, and they are not talking partisan politics.
I agree with you we have to stay in the streets protesting. My frequent protests have found progressive democrat leaning voters who like me acknowledge the dem complicity in our inequity. Who agree that the dems have moved right in the last 30 years, and have lost their backbone, who do not deny the corruption in both parties. They also agree that the dems might be made to serve the 99%and that the repubs are too far gone. I never meet repubs who support OWS, and never meet tea partiers who support OWS. I have seen repubs/tea partiers attacking OWS, and I have seen Dem supporting OWS. Thats the facts. You don't see these facts?
Many of the posters here that I disagree with, i have considered friends for some time now. Early on i viewed their constant partinsan talk as kind of amusing. But not so much anymore, as they are cranking it up, and so too is my annoyance at them.
By watering this down to a political movement, you lose your spirit to fight. Look at Montreal. That should be our blue print, and no one is talking partisan politics there.
You don't have to like the partisanship. but it is a fact of life. Kinda like that annoying election we got comin up in 5 mos. What are we gonna do about that? Maybe you want us to vote republican?
I will vote my conscience. That will not mean voting repub for me, but after that...who knows. It has been "a fact of life" that for more than thirty years, we have had false choices. You may want to lower yourself again and be a dupe, as I too have done in the past, but not me again.
Oh I see so if I vote democratic that is "lowering myself and being duped" sounds a little partisan. I'm gonna vote the issues. The party that wants to raise wealthy taxes, who passed health reform (needs improvement), who passed fin reform (needs improvement) supports gay rights, immigration, green tech jobs/alternative energy. will get my vote. That is my conscience. that is higher not lower. this will take years. Dem candidates support OWS, the people I meet on my many visits are progressive/liberal/dem leaning people. You still haven't responded to the facts I submitted to you. What do you think Loki? OWS more dem than repub?
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Do whatever you want. I could care less who you vote for. What bothers me is that people like you are destroying this revolution, and i doubt seriously that you are a regular protester, other than to go and preach partisan politics to them once in a while. The only reason that this is even an issue here is because some people feel that voting for a particular party is a panacea, and the election is more important than the revolution itself. Look at MONTREAL.
But you do see the facts I mentioned? Or you don't? Repubs/tea party attacks OWS, Dems support. Progressive/liberal/dem leaning people make up OWS participants! Not right wing conservatives. See it? Or not?
I'm a big boy...been around...did my thing in life....i followed what makes the world tick for a long time..I understand what you are saying, but...Whatever you believe we would gain, we would lose more by being a part of this rotten system. It will only succumb at the risk of civil unrest. Look at Montreal ...concentrate your efforts emualating them. I bet Bill 78 gets over-turned, and it won't be because people are advocating partisan politics.
You must be in a different part of the country than me, as I have not heard any of the protesters talk about partian politics. It is a peculiararity to this forum, and I don't think it is healthy. The good part is that not a lot of people near the core of this movement seem to read this.
err
political parties should take heed of what is discussed here.
CanadaBill78 arrest protestors at will bill?
Bill 78
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_78
There are some very restrictive stipulations to the protesting, and if violated, people can be heavily fined. Yes there are some really good things discussed both here, and all over the movement, although a lot of it here is intersperced with crap.
I just got back from NYC where I attended a disobedience class lol, and a protest march in mid-town, and another downtown, and then an economics teach-in from a Drew University prof. She did not look old enough to be a prof, but man was she a whiz. An educated...to the facts populace does not bode well for politians.
I asked this prof, 'considering that our economy depended on the housing bubble for so long, all while we were outsourcing jobs, what will these college graduates do?' She pulled out a sheet of paper showing the most needed jobs for the next ten years, or so (I forgot the exact timeline). Anyway out of the twenty jobs on the list, there was only one that required a college education. That's a real, real problem for these grads, and for us as a country. It also makes me realize that the energetic, bright, young people will continue to be the drivers of this revolution as their future looks quite bleak now, and for the forseeable future. To put simply, they have the most to lose.
I don't have time to do a thread on that as I am leaving for Alaska Tues., but someone should. Let me know.
I can agree with all your commenst. I feel similarly about my "role" here. I would love to turn people towards support OWS. I prefer to do it discussing the Issues that matter to the 99%. That is how I want to and try to spend my time. The partisanship I engage in is not my preference and difficult to avoid. I am weak.
OK, I have to admit that for the first time, I heard an old dude talking partisan politics before a protest in NYC today. I told him in disgust that it was my first time in the eight months that I have been coming up here that I heard PPs here, and he was bashing Obama. I walked away.
The approach we use to convince people to come to our side is important. I have discovered that at the OTS events that I have been part of. We all have weaknesses. Ask my ex. lol To realize them is a step in the right direction. I have had to take many steps on that path, and I am not done, Magni..strong. And neither should we all be.
This site is about discussing issues that affect the 99%. When right wing neo cons post anti ows propaganda I WILL engage. If I see posts encouraging OWS supporters to vote 3rd party/no consent/stay home, I can and will express my opposing opinion. When I see posts that push the fallacy that the "parties are the same" I will disagree with examples. One party hates OWS, One supports us. "the last 30 years we have had false choices" You're right. the difference now is us. OWS! We can give the dems their backbone back. We can make them serve us!
I always find people putting us down with their republican attacks. It ain't difficult to find. I NEVER run into dems yelling at us calling us dirty, lazy, hippies. There is a natural connection between OWS and progressive, liberal, dem leaning 99%'rs. The founders of OWS deny it at their peril. Building consensus means bringing people together. even dems. And the issues we care about ARE at the center of the political discourse of the country.
Agreed, the overwhelmong majority of attacks come from the right, and they should not go unanswered. We should think twice though as I have implied earlier whether the opposition is reachable, or they are just ignorant assholes before we reply. The connection we have with progressives and liberals, and people who haven't lost their ability to think in general is obvious, and i don't believe that OWS denies this paradigm. The things that we care about...having a government representative of the people, and having the rule of law applied equally to all people are things everyone should care about. Anyone, who we are able to convince to come to our side whill soon find himself amongst a bunch of nice people who simply care deeply about their country, and the way that it is run.
Now your just ignoring me. Are one of those republicans trying to get progressive OWS supporters to stay home. It's ok, I understand if you are but you haven't answered some simple direct questions. ready..?.... Repubs/tea partiers attack OWS, and never show up to support us at marches/protests. Agree? Disagree? Let me know. More Loki than Odin huh? mischievious
OK Modi ;-) here's my answer. No i have not met any repubs, or tea pariters at the many protests that i have taken part in to my knowledge. I do assume that most of the people alongside me were like ME (although I do hate being labeled).... either libs or progessives, but i do not know for sure as i have never asked anyone their part affiliation, nor have they offered it. I have had many conversations with people, some supporters of OWS, and some not. That is one of my jobs....cleaning up dog shit too...lol...at the Occupy Town Square events. I have found out early too when you approach this from a right vs wrong point of view, rather than from a repub/conserv vs dem/lib paradigm, it quickly disarms people who are ready to dig in, and do battle on that old field. Even when i know that i have not convinced them, i try to leave them with something to think about, and i do it in a non-combative way, unless the guy is a real ass of course! lol
I have been in OWS since late October, only a few days after returning from Alaska, and have been on this forum since early November, under a different pseudonym for the first week or two because i did not like the faux name i originally picked out. I have honed my skills in answering some of the most vitriolic posters here using reason, and facts, but also sometimes in a like nasty manner unfortunately. I have also written many letters to the editor both here, and in Vermont over the years on racism....xenophobia...the prison industrial complex...McCarthyism, etc. Still i wish i were a better writer, and could get my point across better.
I realize that some of the people that are moderate repubs are 'reachable,' even when they initially come off as assholes. I remember a guy from Kansas who berated OWS on this forum. I could sense humanity in him though, as I knew this kind of a person. So assuming that he or his family may be into agriculture, I told him about the two guys that i had met in Zuccotti/Liberty Park in early Nov., and how I could not believe that these over-all, flannel shirt wearing farmers had come all the way from the mid-west somewhere to be there. I then told this poster what they told me......which I do not remember exactly.....but i do remember that their independent farm was getting the shaft from big agri-business. I never did hear back from that guy, but I like to think that I left him, or perhaps another independent farmer something to think about.
What we are doing here transcends politics. It is about right and wrong, and it goes right to the heart of being a human being. If we truly want a better world....we should start here..now. That is how Occupy Town Square is run, and I am proud to be a part of it....Modi.
If you agree, My nickname for you changes to Magni..ok? ;-)
You avoided the question again. Repubs/tea partiers attack OWS, and never show up to support us at marches/protests. Agree? Disagree?
There is very little support from the pro dem supporters on this forum, because many of them believe what they are doing is more important, and they are ABOVE getting out in the streets. Like I said, I understand exactly your very basic points that you have 'succeeded' in getting across, but i will not take your little tests. So state your case, and I will state mine.
It's no test it is simply an observation. have you met republicans/tea party people at OWS protest who support the movement. NO!. You haven't. It is most telling that you can't say it. I suppose it doesn't fir the narrative you seem to be pushing. That the parties are the same. They ain't!
Like I said, I do not ask. i do know one guy who said he was a centrist earlier in life, and i read about a guy who went to forty occupy sites, and met some repubs, and a couple of tpps.
I never said the parties are the same. One is slightly better than the other, but both stink big time. What i am saying is that by tying ourselves to either party, we end up losing more than we gain. I do not like people co-opting this into an eclection central for the dems We are at the OWS forum here. It should be about shared info, collaboration, and support, not about entering their little political field that they keep us controlled on. The health of this rev should be our top priority, not electing dems. Look at Montreal, Quebec City, and now a whole host of cities.....ding....ding....ding
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It will be the begining of the fix, if no Republicans are in office.
The beginning of the fix will be when more people get out on the streets, like I did all day yesterday. Of course that means having to leave the comforts of home.
I hope you took lots of water with you, that's important.
Thanks for your faux concern. Yes I made sure I was well hydrated
first demand election day holidays
The draconian Bill 78 won't survive no matter what simply because it is a temporary law, not a permanent one. It was signed with an end date (July 2013). It is specifically targeted to the student protest, and does not apply to other protests. That being said, I don't agree with this Bill 78, but I wanted to clarify any misunderstandings about it. Did you read it? Take a moment to, it's not that long and you will see it's specifically about the current protest.
Thanks, I did not know that it was a temporary law. I did read the provisions of the bill including the fines for non-compliance, but it probably wasn't the bill itself. Even so, I would bet this law does not last to July 2013, and that if there are any convictions under it, they will be over-turned. I will look for Bill 78. Thanks again.
I agree. I very much doubt it will last this long, and convictions under that law would be easy to overturn (confirmed by many lawyers). The whole point of the Bill 78 was to scare protesters into stopping the protest. As a decoy, it worked quite well. Nobody talks about the student fee problem anymore. Just like OWS, the talk as turned to us vs. the police. If the protest becomes a bit more violent, then public support will fall, and everyone will have forgotten this was about student fees in the first place.
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I would like to see these kind of protests here more, but many people on this forum in particular are trying to run this movement from their chairs, promoting partisan politics. The disconnect between the people who have the courage to be out in the streets, and the people here, seems to be growing wider as our election nears. At the very least they could directly support the people out in the streets in some way, if they cannot be there themselves. Are you in Montreal?
Ya, I took part in some of the protests. Pretty breathtaking, especially with all the noise from the pots and pans. Biggest protest I have been part of in my life.
Were there a 100,000? That's incredible if there were. In NYC, the biggest ones (2), were 30-50,000. The neat thing ngoing on here though is all the affinity groups that are springing up all over the place. some are in universities, some are regional, and others are specific causes like college tuitions, health-care, etc. Did you read the great comment by a fellow Montrealer in one of the Montreal threads here? Would you mind critiquing it for me, especially the part near the end where he says that the Quebecois are putting their differences aside? One of my daughters went to McGill for three years, and finished at UAA Anchorage. I guess Quebec wasn't cold enough for her. lol
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Here's your answer: Get behind the wheel, put your Vote in the election, and drive this democracy right over the bloated, fat cat, King-Cons who jacked us to corruption, and go as fast as we can to progress. Then tell us what you think.
Thanks, but I will vote my conscience.
Will you say what your conscience is?
No i won't
Why not? dont be afraid Loki. We accept all political persuasions even republicans.
I'll accept Loki, and its negative conotations, if you agree to Modi. :-)
Unfamiliar sorry.
Loki=evil, Modi=angry in Norse mythology. :-)
Couldn't find that.on line ;) I'm actually not angry at many people. (not even the racist tupacsugar) My posts certainly seem angry I would acknowledge that but tone is lost in text. I won't argue against Modi, and I can't say I really believe you to be Loki'esque. Judgement is still out.
It is good to be cautious on here. My judgement is still out on you too, Modi. ;-)
Not afraid....don't know, it's personal. Keep in mind "Loki" attended Obama's inauguration. Were you there on that cold January day?
Not me. but was a great historic day! I would have been honored. President Obama has begun the process of undoing the crimes of the 1%. He has begun the process of moving the dems leftward for the 1st time in 30 years. Don't you agree?
What has moved the whole political spectrum to the left is a bunch of recalcitrant kids who had the audacity to camp out in a park for social, economic, and political justice...not Obama. What we need is more defiant people in the streets or in the parks protesting this corrupt system, not being a part of it.....like Quebec.
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Yes it was an historic day, and I was honored to leave the staunchly repub area that I live in to be there for Obama's inauguration, but my dad was the courageous one though when he left the comforts, and ignorance of this same white community to be at MLKs March on Washington in 1963.
I had my picture taken holding up my dad's pic in DC with the capital in the background. The next day, I put a newspaper in a clear plastic bag, and put it on my dad's grave. So please understand my diappointment in Obama, and also understand that I only want the best for this revolution.
This President can't do everything. In fact with the obvious obstruction, historic use of filibuster by repubs he can do very little. In addition he can do precious little while his supporters are sleeping. We voted him in then went to sleep and let the opposition create the movement we should have (tea party). He needs a movement to lean on, to point to, to use as leverage against the power of the 1%. So our movement began 6 mos ago. Too soon to show results. If we can stick with. not go back to sleep then we might acxheive progress. He can't do it alone. We are the change we've been waiting for! ;)
Yes as i said before, "The fault...lies not in the stars, but in ourselves," Shakespeare...for letting it get to this point. And yes we can be the ones he leans on, I agree, but mixing us up with them is not a good idea. OWS has to remain the defiant group that pushes hard from the outside, if we want to get anything done on the inside.
I also realize that there are powerful groups within and out of government who push for an agenda that the majority of people do not want, but at some point he should have stood up to these groups much more than he has. And if he did, he would have had the support of the people.
He has the support of the people. And While we as a group can stay outside the system, And be a protest movement, not necessarily providing specific solutions, as individuals we can (and I think must) vote! And when we find individuals at protests, or online who disagree with our 99% support we can (and I think must) engage to attempt to pursued them. We don't have to push a party but we can (and should) push positions on specific issues. Is that agreeable?
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As long as we keep our identity separate from either party, on this forum, and our direct actions are not affiliated with either party, yes i think that is very acceptable for me, and most tohers who feel like i do. The ideal for me would be for people to work the 'get out the vote' ,dem lines during the day....not here though... if that's what they choose, and in the night be recalcitrant, defiant Occupy people. Both cannot survive on here. The' night and day' reference is figuratively speaking of course. It is just when the lines are blurred, it takes away from the anger, and the defiance we need to keep this movement going. We must keep our defiant SEPARATE identity, and yes we should be in Wisconsin under the OWS banner, not the dem's....Undoubtedly 'they' won't be far away, though. That separation is what we need to sustain this movement.
I know bright young people in the Occupy Town Square group i belong to who reach out to the timid, and/or unaware mainstream in trying to educate them at their pop-up events in the parks, and churches LITERALLY during the day, and on that same night they are doing jail support, organizing protests, and taking part in them as well. Some of these kids who are making these sacrifices come from privelidged backgrounds too, and i have so much respect for them. Last week the leader of this group, who is a very well educated young man from Australia was arrested in Montreal. I too fully expect to get arrested at some point for standing up for what i believe is right, and have almost been arrested twice already. In solidarity for his arrest, i in turn am donating some resources to him, and the group. This kind of linkage/support to the streets is what this forum should be about, and the more that it isn't, the less important it is going to be. Even the dem pushers will not find much of an audience here then. That's my opinion, and i believe it is shared by the core of this movemnet already, and that is very unfortunate.
I know that a lot of people here disagree with me, but that's OK, I am not here for a popularity contest. I have aligned myself here with other posters like allen, and hchc who i agree with mostly, and i do know that some view them as trolls, but i don't. They to me are simply telling hard truths, and are willing to take the hits for it, and so am I.
OK, whatev...
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/05/30/1095935/-Breaking-Bill-Clinton-is-finding-his-comfortable-shoes-to-come-to-Wisconsin
Obama said he would stop the war, has he? No. Did he provide health care for all. No. The fact is, candidates make all sorts of promises before being elected, but seldom follow through.
If you were a real OWS protester who truly believed in the OWS cause, then you would know that both Democrats and Republicans are crooks, and that you should cancel your vote to show this. Canceling your vote is not the same thing as not voting. It sends the clear message that you wanted to vote, but couldn't because you do not agree with a party to vote for.
You ask why I disagree? Because I don't think any of the current parties can be made to serve the 99%. The Democrats may serve the 99% a bit better than the Republicans, but they certainly will never serve the 99% like they should. If you think they can be made to do this, then I think you have lost touch with reality.
The only thing that can serve the 99% is OWS. Not the Democrats. Not the Republicans.
I agree with you. The dems serve the 99% a little better. With the right constant protest/pressure we can give them back the backbone they need to stand up to the right wing 1% tools, who obstructed the healthcare reform we need (public option). But we have a govt mandate in health care now so we have our foot in the door. That "is a big F%$#in deal" -JB. We will improve it. We can get the Dems to add a public option. The war. THe President ended the illegal Iraq war the Bush started for his criminal 1%Oil whores, and his military industrial complex/southern merc army goons. The President has also begun the end of the other Bush war. He has cut the military and will more (repubs won't). Ended the rhetoric of endless war ("war on terror") as well as the color coded threat level used to fearmonger the right wing agenda that has bankrupted the country and attacked out constitutional rights. What more do you want.? It will take years to unravel the mess that the right wing has created. But we can do it with a strong protest movement (OWS) to pressure the pols. Does the Pres have to do everything? Can't you do anything for yourself. Get off your lazy ass and protest for the change we need. We are the change we are waiting for.
I'm protesting on the street everyday in the biggest occupation of Occupy's history, and I don't know why you are not here in Montreal with me? Is your ass stuck to the chair? What's that? You don't want to miss Jerry Springer re-runs?
You list meaningless issues. Nothing related to the inequity that the 1% enjoys over the 99%. Nothing regarding the slanted tax system, nothing about the transfer of wealth from the 99% to the 1%. nothing about healthcare public option, corp personhood, citizens united. nothing about union busting worker rights, immigration. College costs (your in montreal? huh?) What are talkin about.?
The reason all those problems exist is because you are a nation of Jerry Springer watchers. If you were a nation of political activists and intellectuals, you wouldn't have your eyes closed all the time. The fact that you have TV shows about 20 midgets competing for the love of a gorgeous blonde has everything to do with it, the fact that you don't understand this is just more proof that you're far off from being an intellectual. Now, put some mustard on your hot dog and watch some more Jerry-Springer reruns while your government passes new laws to limit your freedoms even more.
Yeah yeah yeah. We got a lot of people hypnotized by tv/sports/entertainment. We also have OWS. We also had the civil rights movement. Your focus on that problem is useless. There are serious issues that hurt the 99% that we must focus on. That is how we will wake up all apathetic, hypnotized people (American & canadian)
Television for idiots is a serious issue!
We have to wake 'em up by getting the important issues that they care about on tv. broadcast interruptions and such, Special reports as it were. Breaking news if you will. Not by talkin about tv. but about tax fairness, health and fin reform. College costs. green jobs. etc. you know.
If you want to get important issues on TV, we're going to have to talk about TV at some point.
You know, the worldwide definition of an American pretty much amounts to - an illiterate big fat greasy hot dog easting Jerry Springer re-run watching person kind of thing that knows nothing about art and whose most complex read was the recipe for a greasy hot dog.
Whatever. We gotta talk about the issues that matter. tv is secondary.
No, I think media in US is one of the primary reasons you have the problems that you do. TV and religion are killing you.
Just kiddin. Your the 1st one to comment on that reference.
your rant had no mention of how americans are perceived. read your own post.you must have a thing for springer, i've never seen him.
We are bigger than TV and religion combined. We are the 99%. We are legion. You will be assimilated.
Why do you want to assimilate. You don't like plurality of thought? You want everyone to be the same, Borg-like? Is that the goal of OWS?
you are one bitter , hate filled waste of protoplasm.
I assume you are one of those who bought the Jerry Springer collection on DVD. Perhaps you taped it on VHS? I don't why else you would defend him?
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you denigrated the people of the USA,your mention of springer was a minor part of your anti-american rant.
I didn't denigrate anyone. I explained to you how US citizens are perceived around the world. If you travel a bit, you'll realize this is how people perceive you. Rightly or wrongly, many people have this stereotype of American citizens.
Look, we have different view points. You think Jerry Springer was a minor part of my rant because, deep down inside, you like him. He's an American product. I think he's the corner stone of my rant!
Let's see, 1. agree, 2. agree, 3. give them a warning, no zealotry allowed, 4. agree, 5. DEFINITELY AGREE, 6. agree, 7. yes obesity is a problem, too much sitting in front of TVs, suggest protester's diet of pizza, and water, with the excersise being marching, and clanging pans, and chanting of course, "Whose streets? Our streets? 8. agree, there is so much more.
Can't go to Montreal this week. Summer Disobedience Class on Saturday, and getting ready to leave for Alaska on Tues., so hold off on sending the religious nuts up there, OK? I will have my lazy ass in NYC when I get back in July, OK? :-) Solidarity my friend, and take care of yourself up there.
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Then What?
Then Who?
Then How?
You have a lot to say about what "YOU" think won't work or won't help.
How about you enlighten us all with how it should be done.
OWS as the protest machine.
Other groups as solution machines.
Simple. OWS should NOT be a solution machine because it will divide everybody.
I also stated above that if you had any kind of integrity, you would cancel your vote to show both parties that neither can be trusted. It makes no sense to spend your days protesting against the government, then go and support it with your vote. (In your case, it's not a problem since you never marched for OWS.)
In any case, US is broken beyond repair. It's a failed country which has gotten worse and worse since 911. My hope is that US doesn't bring Canada down with it. That's all.
You may have a point here, at least with respect to our current menu of choices, but what if occupiers began running for office (as some are)? I would be inclined to give my support, and I'm not sold on the idea of a complete refusal to work with the system as it exists. Sure, it's not perfect (no denying that), but it's what we have, it's what the human race has created over the course of thousands of years. Our current reality was not exhaustively engineered by some small group of power brokers sitting around a coffee table. Maybe some aspects of our society were engineered, but for the most part, human culture emerged spontaneously (just like everything else).
I guess this whole thing could work by simply reacting to circumstances as they present themselves. For example, the set up at Union Square. In the deep summer months, Union Square (the portion that faces the general public) becomes a smoldering hot chunk of concrete. Will we continue to set up information tables when it gets that hot? I mean, unless we apply for a permit, we won't be able to set up tarps, have access to electricity (there is actually a such thing as outdoor air conditions, which use water, commonly used on construction sites), etc.
There's also many poor people who are part of this movement. I feel that those of us who had the benefit of a good education, have a responsibility towards those people. Many of these people are very young, and they would clearly benefit from a college education (and anyone can go to college, if they know how to navigate the system, or they have a mentor to help them navigate the system). Likewise, there's many older occupiers who need medical services. There's all sorts of charitable organizations, public programs, etc., available, but again, navigating the tangled web of bureaucracy is extremely difficult (but not impossible).
Solution wise, I think working within the system is the best way. I'm not against capitalism if done right, and I'm certainly not an anarchist who believes in overthrowing the US government. There are great aspects to your system of governance, you simply need to clean up some of your laws.
However, I don't think OWS should be mixed with this. OWS should remain a protest, and people running as candidates who were are are OWS protesters should not tell the world about this. The problem is, as soon as OWS protesters start running as candidates, the whole protest will fall apart because some will be running as communists, others as socialists, other as capitalists, etc.... It will shatter OWS into a thousand ideologies. Not only that, but the reason to protest will have been eliminated. People will rightly say - "Why are you still protesting in the street, you now have a political party? Use democracy, don't be a mob in the street!."
No, OWS must remain a protest. We need it. It needs to be a big monster that accepts people of many creeds that share in that they identify and agree on the same problems.
Solution machines like candidates and political parties can be made by OWS protesters, but the name OWS should not be used by them.
You do realize that OWS is based on GA and that if someone were to run as a candidate, he would have to table all his ideas at a GA if he truly wanted to have anything to do with OWS.
Yeah, precisely, an elected official (who maintains a connection with OWS), in the ideal case, would table his or her ideas at a GA. Imagine how cool it would be if our elected officials had to get public approval before voting on a bill? Or, they had to propose bills or amendments that the public demanded? I'm not sure I'm ready to endorse such a far reaching idea (it might be a little overambitious at this phase), I'm just saying we should strive to do a better job at organization.
The candidate would not only get approval for ideas he tables at a GA, but he would also be presented by ideas from others. In fact, he would only be a voice for the people, he would truly represent them. But wait, a voice of the people, but for who, a government? You see, what we are describing is an entirely different political system which is the direct democracy of the people. It doesn't need representatives.
The NYCGA is no longer functioning. As if it ever really did. It predictably self destructed (hmmm, I think someone wrote about that once). Seems they finally figured out that whole direct democracy consensus nonsense doesn't work. Hello lightbulb, meet head.
It appears there are still weekly GA meetings. Rah-rah sessions I suppose. No decision making. - "We are not presumptuous enough to assume a limited number of people holding the G.A. represents the collective diversity of the OWS Community. We are trying to maintain the spirit and character of the Assembly Community."
The last recorded NYCGA minutes 3/27 noted "Yesterday there was a community dialogue meeting we have gotten to a place where we focused on things we can do and things we can perform one of which was looking at the GA, which is not well attended"
WTF? Really? Then, essentially, OWS is dead. At least the original intended form. How are they planning on having direct democracy on each street corner if the NYCGA has shut down. That was the mothership!
So, is OWS dead or what? Should this site be deleted and the hard disk space used to host yet another lucrative porn site?
Thoughts? What's jart's position? Does she still believe in this website, essentially her life's work in the last year?
There appears to be plenty of egalitarian nonfunctional, nonsensical, circular non-decision making happening (or not happening rather), within the working groups - autonomously. The ones that still exist anyway. Lots of been deactivated.
Where are lefties gonna online chit chat, vent and have a beer if this site is gone. Mediaite?
Right, but some anarchist thinkers (notably Pierre Proudhon) endorsed gradual change acquired through nonviolent means. So the question is, what does "gradual" mean in this context? Why can't it mean a hybrid combination of some aspects of direct democracy and some aspects of representative democracy? As the merit of direct democracy becomes apparent to people, they will demand more movement in that direction (ergo, gradual change).
Even intellectuals like Noam Chomsky are willing to admit that some power relationships may be justifiable. We identify power structures, and force them to justify themselves (as no power structure or relationship should be thought of as self-justifying). In the easy case, we can say that a parent should physically restrain their toddler from running out in the middle of moving traffic. Obviously, the most controversial cases are not this easy, and so we continually push the limits, and through experimentation we maximize the possibilities. Really, anarchist philosophy should be thought of as a never ending process. Just because a power structure can be justified today, doesn't automatically imply it will enjoy the same justifications tomorrow, or one year from now.
OPT-OUT Sheesh. How Lame. How predictable. It has never worked except to help those in power stay in power.
Get back behind the wheel and drive this neglected democracy for a change, people!!
The US and everything about it IS NOT broken! IT'S FIXED!
It was FIXED by the would-be Kings in the 1% and their political operatives the RepubliCons. And we let it happen by turning our disparaged backs on our politics and government. Big mistake! We need to re-engage, not continue to disengage in our politics and government. That's how we reform the corrupt ways things have become.
Let's reform the corruption and end the regression! Let's get back behind the wheel and drive this democracy right over the bloated, fat cat, King-Cons who jacked us here.
Are you a fan of Jerry Springer?
I said ur an idiot.
And those protesters sacrifice so much. I admire them greatly.
That's what you say, I don't believe that's what you think. R U a Romneyite?
It's the Class War stupid!!
King-Con tyranny on the 99%!
Inspired by the King-Con Shock Doctrine going on in Wisconsin!!!
Get out the VOTE!!
Believe what you want. The only thing I know is that you're not an OWS protester. You're a paid Obama supporter sent here to co-opt us.
Word!
& ur an idiot.
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You're not? Oh well, you win some and you lose some. Don't worry, I won't miss you. I'm for progress, not distress; even if you sound like a real OWS Aficionado.
You don't seem like you're about progress as much as you are about concessions.
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Lol some of this stuff was almost too amazing to be true :)
Jiffy/will/paidDNCtroll/whoever you are, your case to support the Dems was never really that impressive, but you certainly did a good job of turning off any intellectuals who were perhaps interested in this site.
I do like #6. Do you consider grubbing for money as nuking two cities and then forcing the world to use the dollar, creating the greatest economy the world has ever seen?
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Good work Jiffy. Best Regards
Twink
It's costing me Brownie Points!!!