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Forum Post: Flash Mobs WILL work! (edit: many congrats for yesterday, it DOES work!)

Posted 8 years ago on Nov. 16, 2011, 10:28 a.m. EST by NLake72 (510)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

After careful consideration, I have come to the conclusion that all my posts in support of the OWS movement have to be removed. Sadly, this movement, as a whole, appears to be moving in an anarchistic direction that I can no longer endorse or support. The recent decision by the OWS to disavow the NGA and the document known as the 99% Declaration may indeed be well-founded. This is an issue that I don't claim to understand. However, it seems indicative of the lack of direction and leadership this movement is experiencing as a whole. Sadly, this lack of endorsement, and seeming lack of trust between these groups, only seems to lend support to my conclusions that the OWS movement, as a whole, is pushing an agenda that is, at best, inscrutable. In short, if the OWS produces an agenda that I can support, I may decide otherwise. However, at this time, I don't think the OWS is being directed toward a realistic, workable set of solutions to the problems that face our country.

I firmly believe that our system can be can reformed using the tools provided in the Constitution. We have a legitimate right to redress our grievances to the government. I'm unsure if I will endorse any group at this, or a later time. Like the vast majority of Americans, I think the system is badly broken. While I tacitly support the agenda known as the 99% Declaration, I am still hoping for a more perfect document to be created. I certainly don't support all of it's initiatives, nor do I endorse any group at this time. But, until a better plan emerges, I will continue to support the 99% Declaration, because it is the best agenda that I've seen to date. It is a document that deserves to be discussed, and improved. It deserves time in the national spotlight. The issues it addresses deserve a national debate. It's the best document I've seen to date, and I hope something that suits my personal tastes, and more particularly those of the vast majority of Americans emerges.

92 Comments

92 Comments


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[-] 2 points by JadedGem (895) 8 years ago

No, people will join the movement if they believe in YOU! You let people get to know you when you visit their churches, go to PTA meetings, donate time at shelters, food pantries, thrift stores. And YOU get to know the people, not as republicans or democrats, or liberals or conservatives. Flash Mobs don't do what organized boycotts do. Network people, Network! Get out there and listen as well as talk. Remember to listen. Remember, the people want reform not to reinvent the wheel or throw the baby out with the bathwater.

[-] 1 points by NLake72 (510) 8 years ago

Marching the protest to Bloomberg's front door is EXACTLY the right idea. Non-violence is the key, but this is the kind of heat that gets results. We know where you work. We know where you live. We demand representation. We ARE the 99%

War Drums... How utterly American :) They want to call us savages? Yes! We Are! We are the most noble of savages-- for whom our forefathers crafted the Bill of Rights.

[-] 1 points by NLake72 (510) 8 years ago

Bump! Folks, many congrats on a job well done... Flash Protesting works, it's how the Arab Spring got 'er done.

[-] 1 points by Windsurf (2) 8 years ago

Very much in favor of flash mobs. They can move silently and unnoticed to places like Grand Central station and pull a sit in which will divert and drain police resources so that eventually Mayor will be begging protesters to stay in camps. Plus you can Flash Mob for a few minutes and then move off to another place so that you can get msg to as many people as possible. Great technique with social media.

[-] 1 points by Hambil (32) 8 years ago

What I find interesting isn't so much a flash mob, as flash mob tactics. If occupy begins thinking of the camp, the community, as the Occupation, not the location.

Locations could be planned 10 in advance (or however many you want). When the police show up to break up the camp, disperse peacefully, have a random location from the list tweeted out when ready, and regroup.

Always keep the list and locations changing, but having some internal knowledge of them for advance planning would be needed. I don't know, I'm no tactical expert. But, it seems like a pretty interesting general concept.

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[-] 1 points by Wellington2 (13) 8 years ago

You know all this time I though this meant you were flashing people. You're not are you?

[-] 0 points by journey4word (214) 8 years ago

their not?

really not a bad next move for OWS. flahing and streaking. it's all about attention anyways and they could get a few more prime time spots.

"we're the 99% with small weenies and we hate the 1% with big ones!". and be able to open up trench coats to proove it

[-] 1 points by me2 (534) 8 years ago

"Flash mobs scare people."

Exactly.

This is why they are a bad idea.

Do you really believe scaring people will help the movement?

[-] 0 points by NLake72 (510) 8 years ago

Do you honestly believe the power structure actually cares? They need to feel the heat, and a march through their neighborhoods, through every neighborhood, will certainly help drive the message... home.

[-] 1 points by me2 (534) 8 years ago

...and drive people away... from the message...

[-] 2 points by NLake72 (510) 8 years ago

You make a solid point, I have modified my original post, partly in your honor. I stand corrected.

Non-violence at all times, nor the threat of violence.

[-] 1 points by pastimes66 (3) 8 years ago

The 99% has an enemy it is the greed of the 1%. They must be confounded, supprised, frustated, boycatted. Remember that the 1% will fight any way possible and they have money and power and will demand blood. Change has never taken place without someone paying the ultimate price. Must stop playing games and get serious.Make clear demands even without leaders, the message is clear to friends but not to a lot of people that have been conditioned for many years. There are a lot of people that feel disinfranchised and helpless and belive there is nothing they can do to change things. They are the ones who need a clear message.To work within the system is useless because the system is broken and bias. In hope for a better world

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) 8 years ago

you wanted a contract for a few minutes of drawing but you want to target rich people? now you assume the movement is comprised of angry people. i was on the stream last night, everyone was smiling. my my, you young'ns crack me up. stop wasting your time and get serious. there are people with REAL resources already in motion. pick one and learn.

[-] 1 points by NLake72 (510) 8 years ago

I offered a standard contract to control the use of my imagery, particularly from being sold to third parties who might seek to mis-use my artwork without my permission to support a cause I would not want my name attached to. That's how it works. Then, after receiving the contract, this person made an anti-hippie tirade, and passed my contract offer on to other parties (you, unless you're posting under several names.) Intellectual rights and legal protection over how one's art is published and re-used, and by whom, and for what purposes, is why professional artists have these legal protections put in place. As my contract stated, I retain full copyrights and publication rights of my imagery so that people like (example given) the nazi party cannot misappropriate, alter, or republish my imagery. I see no reason why "a few minutes" of my artwork should not be protected by a standard (and actually quite generous, in this case) contract. Those standard legal protections have been in place for many decades, and for very good reasons, as stated above. Real world example: this is why political campaigns can't just play any song they like, they have to ask the musician for permission to defacto endorse their campaign by licensing their music for purposes that were not the original intent. My terms offered were: free for (him), the second party to use, but no sales to third parties, and I retain full control over the publication rights of my images at all times.

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) 8 years ago

it's cool man. but look at the letter case on the names. this place gets a little wacky sometimes. if you hang out you will see a lot of it. one of these guys has been collecting a list http://occupywallst.org/forum/these-books-are-bannnned-in-the-usa/#comment-353318 and they like to copy names as you will see on the thread i just gave you. best.

[-] 1 points by NLake72 (510) 8 years ago

Well, history will judge us for that which we stand.

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) 8 years ago

dude at this point i figure you for a fraud helping that douche. get bent.

[-] 0 points by Richardkentgates (5) 8 years ago

What's yours is more mine, your screwed!

[-] 1 points by NLake72 (510) 8 years ago

I'll take my chances.

[-] 0 points by Richardkentgates (5) 8 years ago

Slow? You our in our control. Continue on, please.

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) 8 years ago

you aren't in control of shit homie.

[-] 0 points by Richardkentgates (5) 8 years ago

Keep being you, and you'll see our results.

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) 8 years ago

WOW, I almost fell out of my chair. a real life power trip. I will just let you examine for a second, all of the physiological issues that implies. I have given many hours of my time and my money to support a place where people can read and discus favored or opposing opinions. I will not make back the money, not to mention the time. All to support what I believe is right. You do nothing but stalk people.

[-] 0 points by Richardkentgates (5) 8 years ago

Feed your kids first richardgates. Then feed your overweight body. Are you typing? Of course you are Richie.

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) 8 years ago

lol. wow. please tell me more. I'd love to hear what else you found that I Willingly Uploaded to the web. web stalker much?

[-] 0 points by Richardkentgates (5) 8 years ago

When you screw as many people who trusted you, they are eventually going to find you!

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) 8 years ago

your lack of detail and generic statement tell me you are almost out of gas.

[-] 1 points by bre0001 (50) from Brooklyn, NY 8 years ago

Be prepared to get heads busted. Cops always catch a few and they will pay for the rest.

[-] 1 points by NLake72 (510) 8 years ago

I'm very prepared. Gandhi got beaten horribly (on the head, as a matter of fact) on several occasions. He also got results and inspired the world.

I don't see cops as the enemy, merely tools of a corrupt state. Hopefully, they will come to see it our way as well, but overt violence is not the solution to the problems facing our country.

[-] 0 points by karenpoore (902) 8 years ago

Huh? Gandhi got results and inspired the world???? Then why is the world so screwed up?????????

[-] 1 points by NLake72 (510) 8 years ago

Well, the "why" is more or less how we came to be here today. I supect that unbridled greed is one of those parts of human nature that are probably closely related to addiction? I dunno, not my field.

But, I think I can speak for Gandhi and suggest that he had unfinished business when he was murdered. Although, I figure he would say that I'm wrong. WE all have unfinished business, and we must attend to it in a most responsible manner. Just my guess, but I do know what else he'd say... Non-violence, even when met with violence will show the true determination of the people. You can't put an idea in jail, or in hospital, or even in a grave.

You can't shoot holes in people and fill them full of (your) ideas.

[-] 1 points by ghostofbettermen (19) from Muncie, IN 8 years ago

The more the police get violent, the more people get involved and respond themselves.

[-] 1 points by stevo (314) 8 years ago

Can't wait for my "punch your fucking face in " mobs to show up at some of these functions

[-] 1 points by Puzzlin (2898) 8 years ago

What kind of functions you hanging around StevO, bar brawls??? :-)

I can see your still up to your under-cover trolling activities.The F word usually signals your entry and signature into these realms. No secret there, ey?

Isn't there a movement yet for trolls like you?

Tell me about your movement tough boy.

[-] 1 points by NLake72 (510) 8 years ago

I'm a brown belt myself, and I've studied other martial arts on the side... Hopefully I'll never have to use those years of training, but there does seem to exist the fallacy that liberals and activists are a bunch of weenies.

The brainwashed fascists, the intellectual anarchists, the panting mouth breathers... These are all irksome little people, but mainly because they totally overlook the basic premise that the enemy is the 1%, not the republican or a democratic political party (although, the party system is, in fact, a tool of the 1%, which is the enemy to modern democracy... ironic huh?)

[-] -1 points by Richardkentgates (5) 8 years ago

Eat my ass dumb fucks

[-] 1 points by NLake72 (510) 8 years ago

aka fredastaire, who hates hippies as well as dumb fucks.

[-] 1 points by You (62) 8 years ago

again, letter case. this guy/gal is trying to discredit me because he/she is mental. and because my project apparently threatens him/her.

[-] 0 points by Richardkentgates (5) 8 years ago

Pity that you converse with yourself to get attention. What would you like to say to you now?

[-] 1 points by nucIeus (3) 8 years ago

i know right. what is with that guy.

[-] 0 points by Richardkentgates (5) 8 years ago

Please visit my website

[-] 1 points by You (62) 8 years ago

still to slow jack ass lmafo.

[-] 0 points by Richardkentgates (5) 8 years ago

Why did we ban you richardgates from FL?

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 8 years ago
[-] 1 points by Puzzlin (2898) 8 years ago

Woo..................

That was hypnotic.

[-] 0 points by NLake72 (510) 8 years ago

Right ON!

I /bow to your inspiration, and will continue the call to march! Then, I'll make a sign. Rallying points are in order, it's time to get connected and march!

Flash Mob! Every town, every city, every day! The media can't control it, the police can't fight it, a movement has to move. Learn from the Arab Spring, use technology to it's best advantage, it's time to Flash Mob.

[-] 1 points by Perspective (-243) 8 years ago

In your words "Even if an angry mob might be forced to disperse, it will pop up someplace else" I'm afraid if your angry mobs start popping up and scaring people you might get more than you bargained for. Nice veiled threats too btw "Take the message to the people's doorsteps, show the rich folks that they don't own their own streets, we know where they live... And, we invite them to join the change... The American Spring.".

[-] 1 points by Corium (246) 8 years ago

Chapter 3 - 2 Hence to fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting. Sun Tzu "The Art of War"

[-] 1 points by NLake72 (510) 8 years ago

I love Sun Tzu, I read several versions of his book as a young man. I hope that this "war" will be fought only with words, alas, I fear we will be turned upon ourselves by those that would preserve their ill-gotten power in our political system. That would be the greatest tragedy of all, and it must be avoided at all costs to personal welfare.

[-] 1 points by Corium (246) 8 years ago

Yea, there's a lot of old wisdom hidden on that bamboo that could be applied to this movement in peaceful ways. Violence is the one thing the autorities know how to deal with... it must be avoided,

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[-] 0 points by Stonetownbassist (-1) 8 years ago

I think flash mobs definitely will work, and are a fitting and powerful update to sit-ins. The oligarchs haven't figured-out how to shut that down yet. Also, their temporary nature would make it more possible for people with jobs, like me, to be involved. BTW - I'm a registered, active Republican, so this is spreading, folks.

[-] 0 points by Puzzlin (2898) 8 years ago

I think this is a great tactic and should be tried along with other avenues. This is one tactic in our tool chest along with many tried and true. Certainly if enough people show up, it's overwhelming successful. It has the most impact as this movement already has shown and proven.

When you get right up in those politicians faces who are destroying our country, like Eric Cantor, and Mayor Bloomberg. It's extremely effective. Be creative. Make it happen. Do it. This is the time.

N O W

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[-] 0 points by bigbangbilly (594) 8 years ago

Can you please incorporate my idea into your idea. This will turn any crowd into a refuge or protest platform for any protest.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/flash-protesting-an-idea-to-consider/

[-] 0 points by NLake72 (510) 8 years ago

Have you organized YOUR Flash Mob/ Flash Protest today?

Occupy EVERY street, in every city.

The people will march, even in wintertime. If you are disbanded by the authorities, just form again elsewhere. The time is NOW!

[-] 0 points by Nevada1 (5843) 8 years ago

Excellent.

[-] 0 points by DickheadCommuist (-8) 8 years ago

All right people, lets get this straight now! For the last time when you participate in a flash mob, you have to be naked under your coat! If you are not flashing you are nothing more than just a mob!

[-] 1 points by Puzzlin (2898) 8 years ago

What's your name?

Thought so. Your the funny weird troll.

[-] 1 points by NLake72 (510) 8 years ago

Fair enough, I approve of the dress code... Although streaking in winter isn't as much fun... However, there is no time to waste, bring on the American Spring.

(Frankly, I think the police in riot gear are only inviting people to throw stuff at them. I'd be less inclined to throw a rock if I thought it might actually hurt someone. Police are people too, but when they dress up like storm troopers it's a bit difficult to humanize them.)

[-] 1 points by Thrasymaque (-2138) 8 years ago

It's even more difficult to humanize them when they are being portrayed as tanks on the posters.

[-] 0 points by bigbangbilly (594) 8 years ago

We are talking about flash of light ( as in duration and unexpectedness) not flash of body.

[-] 0 points by NLake72 (510) 8 years ago

Flash Mobs are moving targets, you can't stop an idea when it springs up everywhere.

Flash Mobs can happen in every town, in every city. Flash Mobs are the movement's only hope. The Arab Spring demonstrated the power of technology.

People will march, people will protest, people will Flash Mob.

It can and should happen in every town and city, every day, starting today. Stand up and march people, get connected and Flash Mob.

[-] 0 points by RexDiamond (585) from Idabel, OK 8 years ago

We are not an Arab nation.

[-] 0 points by Corium (246) 8 years ago

Chapter 6-2 "The clever combatant imposes his will on the enemy, but does not allow the enemy's will to be imposed on him." Sun Tzu, "The Art of War"

[-] 0 points by sandstorm (-2) 8 years ago

we need a new forum why not a talk show

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[-] 0 points by buik1 (9) 8 years ago

flash mobs are incredibly gay, man. sorry to have to break it down like that but you must know

[-] 1 points by NLake72 (510) 8 years ago

Spoken like a true bigot. You must not be a progressive...

[-] 2 points by ronimacarroni (1089) 8 years ago

gaaaaaaaaaaaay

[-] 0 points by Franklinite (3) 8 years ago

I think that the best use of flash mobs would be to have them pop up when police are massing to disperse the peaceful groups. This could be done by independent groups, lightly coordinating with the main protest gatherings so that flash protests/actions could take place to divide and de-prioritize police action against the on-message groups.

This could also serve to give a purpose to people who are passionate but stymied by the longer-term occupation side of supporting the movement. Not to mention that it might divert problem people/troublemakers into other areas, while harnessing them without endorsing their potential downsides.

What if a separate group suddenly occupied and shut down a major thoroughfare long enough to draw police resources, then dispersed before the police could move their focus to them? Repeat ad nauseum, and when the police attacks on main sites get determined, they suddenly get swarmed with 911 calls for jammed city streets, likely some looting, etc.

I do not endorse the violence and lawless side of this, but the flash-mob concept of many smaller fires being harder to douse than a single big one applies well to this kind of decentralized movement.

[-] 2 points by TheFred (43) from Clinton, IL 8 years ago

I don't like it when the PTB scheme and try to manipulate me, whether they be the 1% corporate insects, or the so-called 99% forcing an agenda on me. The cause of getting government out of the money business is the cause I support, not all the other garbage going on. So, a little looting, etc. is OK, maybe a bit of violence a few deaths, that's OK too as long as you can manipulate the rest of "the 99%." That is just not right and is as bad as corporate abuses.

[-] 1 points by NLake72 (510) 8 years ago

I have thought this over, and you're correct. The crime associated with the term Flash Mob is not something I agree with or endorse. I will change my terminology in the face of it's uglier connotations. You are correct, no agenda should be forced on anyone. I will be more circumspect in the future, thank you for your polite correction, I sincerely agree with your overall message.

[-] 0 points by Perspective (-243) 8 years ago

So while you admit OWS has it's share of "problem people/troublemakers",your plan is to use them for your purposes. You are no better than the crooked politicians we have in office right now. Sad.

[-] 1 points by Franklinite (3) 8 years ago

Use them? They have a right to do as they wish. At least they can do that in a manner that does not smear everyone when they converge on our locations and cause trouble. Better they be elsewhere until they are in line with the attitudes of the mainstream of the movement, which is nonviolent and peaceful.

Your canard is dispensed with, you ridiculous and half-witted troll. I quite obviously pointed out that these people are out there, and they are doing these things anyways. Sometimes discrediting other people. Why not push them to do these things elsewhere, when it could serve a higher purpose?

Use? No. Corporate? No. But avail myself of affinity groups and circumstances I cannot control anyways? Yes! Indeed yes! And by the way, you preachy nitwit, your judgement is absolutely suspect.

Your analysis of my post is Fox News in tone. Take it elsewhere or point out exactly where I said use the people, as opposed to the tactics and their inevitable behaviors. Also, tell me how this would NOT WORK.

[-] -1 points by Perspective (-243) 8 years ago

"Why not push them to do these things elsewhere, when it could serve a higher purpose? " I'm pretty sure that means USE them to your advantage. So you endorse their violence even though you don't agree with it. Getting a little gray there aren't you? BTW you insult people you don't know rather well,sad.

[-] 1 points by Franklinite (3) 8 years ago

Once again, you equate my disdain for violence in the midst of peaceful action as condoning it. You also equate asking them to do it elsewhere and then acting when they do as USING them. Well, too bad for you I am not too concerned about your mincing whinges. You are a dishonest and vapid soul. I am done responding to you. Have a nice life, but please move on. Soon. Kthxbai.

[-] 0 points by Perspective (-243) 8 years ago

lol don't like your words used against you do you? Sad.

[-] -1 points by Che559G (15) from Fresno, CA 8 years ago

pass my house with a flash mob. I'll pop 7.62x39 mm of fun at y'all

[-] 2 points by Puzzlin (2898) 8 years ago

Che559G,

Why are you alive?

[-] 1 points by NLake72 (510) 8 years ago

That's such an anti-American statement, on so many levels, it's hard not to choose a side.

A lot of really good people have been martyred in the Arab Spring. That's the price we all must be ready to pay, for the privilage of having a representative government. We have to summon the courage and self-discipline to stand up for what we believe, and to take the risks associated with protecting our democracy. I don't believe that includes the usage of firearms, but, being shot is a very real risk that we all take.

[-] 0 points by raines (699) 8 years ago

Good for you !!

[-] 0 points by Puzzlin (2898) 8 years ago

One to the head?

[-] 1 points by Che559G (15) from Fresno, CA 8 years ago

one to the head and one to the neck

[-] 1 points by Puzzlin (2898) 8 years ago

Don't you have bar brawl to get to. Don't bring your gun unless your in Texas.


[-] -1 points by sandstorm (-2) 8 years ago

we need a new way to convey our dreams why not a talk show call in show or a guest oriented show.

[-] 1 points by stevo (314) 8 years ago

Yea..a talk show....

What he fuck are you talking about

[-] 1 points by NLake72 (510) 8 years ago

Actually, a webcast would be a good idea. The media wants to paint OWS as a simple movement about wall street reform. We all know that there is a long list of radical reforms that should be instated, which will never get any airplay.

And, let's face it, people don't read as much as they should-- maybe moving pictures would help? I say go make this happen, but make sure you have very smart people doing the interviewing, and make sure the guests are equally eloquent. Food for thought, grist for the mill, and a career opportunity for a journalist who is willing to make work for themselves.

[-] -3 points by letsallspeaktruth (24) 8 years ago

you use words like MOB and OCCUPY...and then speak about non-violence...you are not misguided, you are hypocrites

like all occupiers throughout history...you will be put down by the people!

[-] 2 points by NLake72 (510) 8 years ago

Here is one example of a person who is afraid of the mere term Flash Mob.

Sorry, they had peace marches in the 60's. Now we have Flash Mobs.

Technology was the Arab Spring's secret weapon. The 99% must Flash Mob (yes, it's a verb.)

Flash Mob everyday, take the word to the streets, give the people a chance to join the movement... Take it to the streets, not the park.

[-] 1 points by Franklinite (3) 8 years ago

We are the people. You are not paying attention.

[-] 0 points by Perspective (-243) 8 years ago

Actually you aren't. Your egos are just so large you claim to represent those of us who disagree with you. Once more OWS acts like the politicians they claim to despise. Sad.

[-] 1 points by Franklinite (3) 8 years ago

I do not despise politicians. Some do great work. You are the sad (and also pathetic) one. Get out of our midst if you are not one of us.

I represent my own views. When did I claim to represent all of yours, or even a few of your obviously sociopathic, greed-riddled. troglodyte values? Who are the "those of us" you speak of? I have yet to meet one, and I do not care to. I am among MY "those of us" and we grow by the day.

[-] 1 points by Frizzle (520) 8 years ago

You seem to have an other idea about what non-violence actually mean then most people.

[-] 1 points by Thrasymaque (-2138) 8 years ago

They should speak about peace, not non-violence.