Forum Post: Fix This Problem or the Movement will Die - Black Bloc
Posted 11 years ago on Nov. 3, 2011, 6:44 p.m. EST by Blundo
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
The Black Bloc is destroying the movement. They break stuff and give us a bad image.
This issue need to be brought up during the GA or this movement is going to die off.
Pulling their masks off might help, thats one thing they hate is being identified, and if they attend a protest where their is a good chance of that happening. They wont attend.
No more use of masks
or have OWS have a security team, who try to prevent the problem like this
That should end well.
We need a million more V masks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
they are a group that dress all in black with masks and destroy stuff. Even when they have no idea what the protest is about.
Yea, whats the sense in protesting to make your voice be heard if you are scared to show your face, Walk tall and be proud
It has been proven that in prior protest movements that the FBI has sent in instigators to blur the reasons for the protests. Maybe this is happening again?
Take a vote at the GA to not allow them in camps, marches, etc.
How about everyone circling them and getting them to de-mask, drop their weapons and then ask them to leave?
See the Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_bloc
Brief documentary: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sbxOlk-Z1E&feature=related
ty very much
Wow. How dare you pull anyone's mask off? You're a bunch of sell-out traitors.
The provacaturs are really off and running now. It looks like that is the approach they will take. The movement needs to get on top of this, now!
I think we should chant something similar to when we chant shame to the police. Once the chanting can be heard the whole crowd of peaceful protestors can act. We could surround the perpetrators and remove them ourselves, chant shame, or chant peaceful protest and try to remove them through our numbers.
Anyone who wares a mask is hiding something, and that is weakness. Whatever you might think about the Guy Fawkes masks, they are a detriment to the cause in my opinion. The power of the people lies in their faces, like Sgt. Shamar Thomas. Imagine if he was wearing a mask giving that speech, would it have been as powerful? No way. Look at Scott Olsen, he is a resounding figure of Peaceful Protest. I feel it is misguided to hide your faces, because your faces are what affect people who haven't marched yet. Don't forget that when you chant "We Are The 99%", you are speaking about basically everyone you see in the streets. This movement is powerful, but not because of you alone. It is very easy to feel the momentum and make ill decisions out of becoming overly emotional. There is only one truth, and that is Peace. Hippies didn't invent that word, but they were smart to embrace it when they did. Throughout history that has been the foundation of Change. Not bloodshed, that will only incite more bloodshed. Take off your masks, lock arms and stand together. That is the ONLY way.
they mask up because they are cops,.
Make this a Global GA meeting.
we could always strip them naked, no hiding identity their.Then they will be scared to swing their weapon. :P
If you are talking about the V fawkes mask folks.
They need to maintain nonviolence like everyone else. if they do that, they will help the movement. If they screw up they will hurt the movement.
THe masks are a benefit only if they maintain non-violence.
THe mask has nothing to do with cowardice. it has to do with SAMENESS...
Implying WE ARE ONE
Either way wearing a mask for peaceful or for bad intentions. First person reaction tend to go more to the bad(Dark) side.
It implies that they are CRAZY. Do you even know who Guy Fawkes was?
for the love of all things holy how many times am I going to have to answer that question.
I feel like a veteran of the forum now...
regardless fo him being a religious terrorist trying to install a catholic monarch, the mask itself has come to mean something very different because of
the Matrix and V for vendetta
the mask symbolizes resistance against tyranny and corruption.
look it up in wikipedia.
I think even in V for Vendetta though he was still a terrorist who blew up parlament
that is not what it means anymore. Look it up on wikipedia.
Warner Bros makes money for each one sold.
And if they had decided to wear white hooded sheets instead? It does not matter what THEY think it means as much as it matters what OBSERVERS think it means. Savvy?
And observers think they are CRAZY.
It matters what it means period.
Read Jung and joseph campbell for examples of the meaning of symbols changing over time.
When you have made sure that the general populace has read "Jung and Joseph Campbell" and have come to a consensus on the meaning of this particular symbol-then I'll be happy to withdraw my opinion.
Look-up the etymology of the word "mask" when you get a moment. No matter what they wear on their faces, their actions SCARE people and the masks WILL be associated with violence, hatred, and anger.
We are not responsible for the associations of others, only our own actions.
We are not here to make people comfortable, only liberated in truth.
The smart ones are non-violent.
If the mask meant something other then what I said, the wikipedia article would SAY something different then it says
the media are going to paint this any way they decide to
We will not walk on eggshells or be politically correct because it makes someone uncomfortable when we exercise our rights.
That is their issue to deal with on their own.
"We are not responsible for the associations of others, only our own actions."
So.....you are saying that this movement is all about taking down ONLY those corrupt Wall Street individuals who ARE guilty of "their own actions" of fraud, stealing, greed etc and NOT making anyone "responsible" by "association? That's good to know.
"We are not here to make people comfortable, only liberated in truth."
Perhaps if you demonstrated that you DO HAVE "the truth", they'd be more comfortable with you "liberating" them.
In response to your point number one: I can't speak for the entire movement. But If I have my way, YES. No guilt by association.
point number two:
Why can't you speak for the entire movement? You have no problem attempting to speak for all of the "V" mask wearers!
From wikipedia under black bloc-
"Tactics of a black bloc can include vandalism, rioting and street fighting, demonstrating without a permit, misleading the authorities, assisting in the escape of people arrested by the police, administering first aid to persons affected by tear gas in areas where protesters are barred from entering, building barricades, and resisting the police. Property destruction carried out by black blocs tends to have symbolic significance: common targets include banks, institutional buildings, outlets for multinational corporations, gasoline stations, and video-surveillance cameras."
I'm sorry, but property destruction, street fighting, vandalism, and rioting don't fall into MY definition of "non-violent".
FROM WIKIPEDIA under Guy Fawkes Mask
Use of "Guy Fawkes" mask in anti-establishment protests
See also: V for Vendetta#Cultural impact
Protesters wearing "Guy Fawkes masks" at a protest against Scientology in London in 2008 Since the release in 2006 of the film V for Vendetta, based on a comic book series about a dystopian future United Kingdom, written by Alan Moore and illustrated mostly by David Lloyd, the use of stylised "Guy Fawkes" masks, with moustache and pointed beard, has become widespread internationally among groups protesting against politicians, banks and financial institutions. The masks both conceal the identity of individuals and demonstrate their commitment to a shared cause. The character first became an internet meme, common on imageboards such as 4chan as well as on video-sharing based websites such as YouTube. The Internet-based group known as Anonymous adopted the Guy Fawkes mask in 2008, following its use by members during Project Chanology's protests against the Church of Scientology. On 23 May 2009, protesters dressed up as V and set off a fake barrel of gunpowder outside Parliament while protesting over the issue of British MPs' expenses. During the Occupy Wall Street and the whole ongoing "Occupy" protests, the mask appears internationally as a symbol of popular rebellion. In October 2011, campaigner Julian Assange attended the Occupy London Stock Exchange protest wearing such a mask, which he removed after a request by the police. According to Time in 2011, the protesters' adoption of the mask has led to it becoming the top-selling mask on Amazon.com, selling hundreds of thousands a year. Time Warner, one of the largest media companies in the world, is paid a fee with the sale of each mask, as it owns the rights to the image. Artist David Lloyd is quoted as saying: “ The Guy Fawkes mask has now become a common brand and a convenient placard to use in protest against tyranny – and I'm happy with people using it, it seems quite unique, an icon of popular culture being used this way. The book is about one man bringing down the state but the film includes a scene of a huge crowd – making a statement against a faceless corporation. The masks were useful for the Scientology protests because it prevented individuals from being recognised... We knew that V was going to be an escapee from a concentration camp where he had been subjected to medical experiments but then I had the idea that in his craziness he would decide to adopt the persona and mission of Guy Fawkes – our great historical revolutionary. ” Alan Moore stated in a 2008 interview with Entertainment Weekly: “ I was also quite heartened the other day when watching the news to see that there were demonstrations outside the Scientology headquarters over here, and that they suddenly flashed to a clip showing all these demonstrators wearing V for Vendetta Guy Fawkes masks. That pleased me. That gave me a warm little glow. ” 
Please note how many times the term "black bloc" appears in your quote. NONE. Why? Because the "V" mask AND "black blocs" are NOT synonymous with each other.
Example, how many of the people in the Oakland riot photos are wearing THAT PARTICULAR MASK? Percentage? Most of them were dressed in black clothing with bandanas or ski mask type things covering their faces.
So, I WILL agree with you that the Fawkes mask is worn in non-violent protests. SURE! You win that point. But "black bloc" members are NOT the same thing as "V" mask wearers and this thread is about BLACK BLOCS-not Vendetta masks.
So perhaps in the interest of SAFETY from bullets, you should suggest to the ones that ARE wearing the masks that they ALSO pin a big RED "V" to their chests so the police (and the militia men posting here) will know that all the mask wearers are really just the peaceful, "non-violent" anarchist wanna-be types and NOT your every day "Black Bloc" violent anarchists.
"The Black Bloc is destroying the movement.'? No. There will always be police infiltrators and also people who are honestly convinced that this symbolic violence is valid. OW is bigger than some infiltrators and confused people because OW an idea whose time has come.
I agree, we need to get rid of the violent anarchist half of whom are nothing more then right wing thugs and agent provocateurs being tasked to break shit to give the PTB an opening so they can crush this whole thing wholesale.
Thats the point, to break stuff and fuck shit up. god bless them.
"Black Bloc"? Isn't that a horribly racist term?
It's a tactic where everybody more or less wears a 'uniform' while covering ones face to make it harder do identify each individual. Harder to identify, but not impossible to identify. Remember that.
Stab them. The pain will deter their attendance.