Forum Post: Fix the Laws
Posted 12 years ago on Nov. 23, 2011, 10:22 a.m. EST by tesn1
(212)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
The only way to fix the problem is to Fix the Laws that have both enabled the behavior and Perpetuated the behavior. We see the symptoms and outcome, but noone is focussing on the reality of the laws from the past that gave the corporations the ability to get so much control.
The lack of leadership in the OWS movement, and lack of focus will doom it to failure. Even the Civil Rights movements had leadership. The question is why? Why no clear thought and focus?
What Laws are you talking about?
the 1933 securities act and the 1934 sec act. They took away the ability of the average person to invest in small companies and took small business's ability to raise capital away and gave it to the accreditied investor, the 1%
How about the Glass-Steagall Act of 1933.
That was a good thing, and needs to be put back in place.
Leaders are targets for assassination,and corruption..When the power is decentralized it's harder to isolate ,pigieonhole, and coerce..
Decentralized power put factions at opposite ends and fighten among subgroups become prevalent. Look at the Parlimentary system and the infighting. Look at the tribal systmens held in many countries that embrace a notion of decentralized power. No a system of checks and balances is key to a healthy society, but this has nothing to do with the problem. The laws enacted starting in the earth 20th century are the problem. In another post I will detail what those laws are and how the affect the system.
I agree 100% with your post here.
There seems to be two factions at work within OWS:
The first group are the anarchists, who want to turn society upside down. Most have no vision of what to replace it with. A few want to replace the system with some form of collectivism. A concept that has NEVER worked throughout all of recorded history. They will reject this idea.
The second group wants to work within the current system. This group sees, as do you, that the problems lie in laws which allow an elite group of corporations and individuals to make rediculous amounts of money while cheating the system. They play by a set of rules that have been put in place by politicians who have been bought. IT'S THE POLITICAL SYSTEM THAT IS BROKEN.
To me it is correcting what was put inplace many years ago that enabled the shift in wealth. To try and replace a system is wrong. Undueing the problem is easier, faster and more poignant.
The critics of OWS have been trying to 'vote up' their own comments and 'vote down' any supporting OWS. It's an obvious strategy to prevent you from reading the ugly truth. Especially those comments which address the massive corporate tax loopholes and the obscene concentration of wealth. They don't want you to read any of them. They don't want you to know just how bad it really is.
Here is a list of the top ten companies that not only paid no taxes but got huge corporate welfare from we the people.
1) Exxon Mobil made $19 billion in profits in 2009. Exxon not only paid no federal income taxes, it actually received a $156 million rebate from the IRS, according to its SEC filings. Note: This claim was made by Forbes.com in April of '10'. Shortly after, they published a followup article which included a rebuttal by Exxon Mobil. Forbes.com did acknowledge a mistake based on incorrect line items filed by Exxon Mobil. http://www.forbes.com/sites/energysource/2010/04/07/exxon-says-it-does-pay-u-s-income-taxes
2) Bank of America received a $1.9 billion tax refund from the IRS last year, although it made $4.4 billion in profits and received a bailout from the Federal Reserve and the Treasury Department of nearly $1 trillion.
3) Over the past five years, while General Electric made $26 billion in profits in the United States, it received a $4.1 billion refund from the IRS.
4) Chevron received a $19 million refund from the IRS last year after it made $10 billion in profits in 2009.
5) Boeing, which received a $30 billion contract from the Pentagon to build 179 airborne tankers, got a $124 million refund from the IRS last year.
6) Valero Energy, the 25th largest company in America with $68 billion in sales last year received a $157 million tax refund check from the IRS and, over the past three years, it received a $134 million tax break from the oil and gas manufacturing tax deduction.
7) Goldman Sachs in 2008 only paid 1.1 percent of its income in taxes even though it earned a profit of $2.3 billion and received an almost $800 billion from the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury Department.
8) Citigroup last year made more than $4 billion in profits but paid no federal income taxes. It received a $2.5 trillion bailout from the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury.
9) ConocoPhillips, the fifth largest oil company in the United States, made $16 billion in profits from 2007 through 2009, but received $451 million in tax breaks through the oil and gas manufacturing deduction.
10) Over the past five years, Carnival Cruise Lines made more than $11 billion in profits, but its federal income tax rate during those years was just 1.1 percent.
The ugly truth. America's wealth is STILL being concentrated. When the rich get too rich, the poor get poorer. These latest figures prove it. AGAIN.
According to the Social Security Administration, 50 percent of U.S. workers made less than $26,364 in 2010. In addition, those making less than $200,000, or 99 percent of Americans, saw their earnings fall by $4.5 billion collectively. The sobering numbers were a far cry from what was going on for the richest one percent of Americans.
The incomes of the top one percent of the wage scale in the U.S. rose in 2010; and their collective wage earnings jumped by $120 billion. In addition, those earning at least $1 million a year in wages, which is roughly 93,000 Americans, reported payroll income jumped 22 percent from 2009. Overall, the economy has shed 5.2 million jobs since the start of the Great Recession in 2007. It’s the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression in the 1930’s.
Wonderful, you stated and obvious truth but it does not point to what the problem is and how to fix it. We need to audit the laws and fix the problems that enable the behavior.
The problem is our government's ability to interfere in our economy. The problem is the commerce clause. It gives government absolute power over the economy and since 1995 (United States vs. Lopez), absolute power over every aspect of human life. It is the commerce clause which provides the incentive for corporations to buy government. If you have a different idea I'd like to hear it but from what I can see, this is the root of the problem.
Even if 'corporations' weren't using the power of the commerce clause for their own gain (or on behalf of their 'friends') at the expense of others, someone would. That's all it can be used for.
The root of the problem started in 1913 with the Federal Reserve act, was compounded with the 1933 Securities act, and was bolstered with the 1934 Exchange act. If you understand what they did and how they created the fundemental shift of wealth you will see the root of the problem.
While the measures taken regarding the Federal reserve are extremely detrimental, they wouldn't have been able to happen were it not for our government's ability to interfere in our economy. The fundamental shift of wealth was not a change in hands but in means of acquiring it. Those who had access to those means certainly profited at the expense of those who didn't. The federal reserve made it legal to exchange paper backed by government force for goods produced by human effort.
the 1933, and 1934 act gave the ability to the 1%
I am the 1%. I am the 1% of this movement which thinks that creating two classes and designating them by percentages which don't represent anything relevant to social justice makes those who use the terms appear entirely ignorant of what they are talking about. It doesn't matter who has the power to trade nothing for something. As long as the power exists, there will be those who amass wealth at the expense of others.
Amassing wealth at the expense of others, like crime or disease, is something that will always exist; we need to learn to mitigate its harmful effects in practical ways, not dream of pies in the sky. And of course a recognition that the financial classes and the people have entirely different economic interests is important to concepts of social justice (as well as simple common sense). Blurring that distinction does not advance "social justice", it seems like just an empty use of a catchphrase to subvert a critical understanding.
It is true that some people will always try gain at the expense of others. It's a (solvable) problem when it becomes legal. Granting the government the powers of the commerce clause makes it legal. I don't consider it 'pie in the sky' to abolish the commerce clause (and the government's legal monopoly on the printing and coining of currency). These two measures would prevent the legal use of force in economic matters thereby eliminating the method by which wealth is 'concentrated'. Which, for those not in the know, is accomplished by the fact that our government (through the Federal Reserve) prints currency which represents goods we will later produce which they will later expropriate. Bring a dollar to the federal reserve and ask to exchange it for what it represents. See what happens.
I don't consider it 'pie in the sky' to abolish the commerce clause (and the government's legal monopoly on the printing and coining of currency).
So you want to move to a gold standard or get rid of money or something. Sounds pretty pie in the sky to me, either that or Bronze Age economics.
Not necessarily a gold standard, but a standard of objective value that the currency can be exchanged for, yes. When you cannot exchange the money to the one who produced it for what it represents, then it doesn't represent anything and shouldn't be accepted in exchange for goods by anyone.
The associated laws restrict how small business can raise capital and who can invest into them. Additionally, it forces small "private" business to raise capital utilizing banks and their underwriting process. By doing so brought about the swing in wealth
Why is it so hard for most people to comprehend that within the laws enacted during certain crisis periods in our country the fundemental shift in wealth was enabled. Why do so many refuse too look at something so simple as auditing and making a plan to fix the laws that enable and perpetuate the problem.
Thats exactly right. The people need to develop constitutional amendments dictating election reform and reform of the special rules for elected officials.
There are leaders but they are anarchists and marxists and they don't want to be publicly attacked, so they stay behind the scenes.
A constitutional amendment will not fix the problem. Election reform is not the problem. The laws that enable the behavior are very obvious if you look at history and the shift in wealth from the 1920's to now.