Forum Post: Financial Suicide - The Greatest Nation On Earth
Posted 12 years ago on Nov. 9, 2011, 9:33 a.m. EST by CoExist
(178)
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How does a country end up 15 trillion dollars in debt? 30 years ago, we were just a little over a trillion dollars in debt. How in the world do supposedly rational people living in "the greatest nation on earth" allow themselves to commit national financial suicide by allowing government debt to explode like that?
It almost seems like there should be some sort of official ceremony in Washington D.C. to commemorate this achievement. It really takes something special to be able to roll up 15 trillion dollars of debt. To get to this level, we really had to indulge in some wild spending. For example, did you know that the U.S. national debt grows by more than 2 million dollars every single minute?
All of this debt has fueled an unprecedented boom of prosperity for the last 30 years, but now that prosperity is drying up. Today, there are over 45 million Americans that are on food stamps. America is being deindustrialized at a blinding pace and there are not nearly enough jobs for everyone. Poverty is exploding all over the nation, and millions of families have lost their homes to foreclosure. Unfortunately, there are zero solutions on the horizon.
The leaders of both major political parties seem even more clueless right now than in past years. We really could use some hope, but hope is in very short supply.
Finance, capitalism, debt and the economy are the Cold War nuclear threat of today.
Fifty years ago, if Russia had taken steps -- either militarily or economically -- that would crush America under trillions of dollars of debt, we would have responded aggressively.
Today, we buy things made in China, spend lavishly on a credit card that is held by China, and then we are in debt up to our ears -- to China.
Duhhh!
We get the government and society we deserve.
When a society becomes a product of its own technology, it destroys itself
we are in debt because because our money has debt attached to it when the Federal Reserve Loans it to us. In this system there will always be more debt then there is money. We don't actually have to pay a premium to the FED, they are just pocketing the money anyway.
So we are a debtor nation? Man has always wanted to be a creator. Perhaps this is his hand in the process. To create something out of nothing.
Wealth is created by work, innovation and ethics not by central banks. Central Banks mainly parasitize working people as they currently function.
Then it's much like we suspected. Perhaps a farm for humans? Almost every organism on Earth has an associated parasite, and most have quite a few.
I don't quite get your meaning.
Your word parasitize means to infest or live on an animal or plant as a parasite. Did you mean a different definition?
That is the correct definition. Is English your second language?
I don't quite get your meaning.
hail the new hungry superpowers china and india
我爱中国 and also আমি ভারত প্রেম
How: American jingoism and the absurd confidence people have in the "American Dream". So we printed more money, and made liabilities on it (debt), without any plan of how that debt would be repaid.
Liken it to a teenager whose been given an enormous inheritance (called the Earth), and then spent it ALL away on a 200 year PaR-tAy called the Industrial "Revolution"! Blame the "Republicans" for buying the beer and the Democrats for consuming it. The party should have never of happened assholes!
now it's the day after and we're all sleeping while the richest people in the party draw all over us with magic markers.
Well I was never invited.
Because the defect in Corporatism is that a globalist will sell other countries the keys to his factory. Or more pointedly, when banks own the keys to the factory they will sell them to anyone.
Perhaps its all a holographic simulation? Then what?
Well, If i was to believe that, than i'd have to believe the same about every news piece i ever read. therefore, i'd never read news papers, books, or watch documentaries and local news.This would make me oblivious about peaple in other states. Furthermore, i'd only be influenced by my closes friends and their conspiracies would drive me.
The data in our brains, where did it come from?
I see where you are going with this, but i'm not going to entertain your notion that i am the one being lied to, and you will set me straight.
Not so I'm in here with you, how can we explain that?
It's because people want/need things, but this pesky, ancient, outdated invention called 'money' gets in the way. Replace the monetary system with something more current and rational and no one will have to worry about debt.
Yes I agree, a new system in which everyone is a part.
Once things get unwound here, we'll make the Greek demonstrations look like a knitting circle. It will be very messy.
Very messy indeed.
I would also add that we have quite a bit of non-government debt too. US household debt was over $10trillion at the time of the financial collapse. Non-financial corporate and financial institution debts were over $10trillion as well. http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_K68fL4C4bHs/TSpF2wfOJ4I/AAAAAAAAAAM/b9-DpmZM-ik/s1600/us-total-debt-1980-to-2009.gif
If you want a comprehensive long term view of our "debt problem" and its underlying causes, please take some time to read: The United States’ 65-Year Debt Bubble - http://ourfiniteworld.com/2011/10/10/the-united-states-65-year-debt-bubble/
It all seems to be according to plan. But who's plan?
The banking and corporate elite obviously! But I wouldn't call it a plan per say, more like a haphazard greed orgy amongst a bunch of power drunk, money hungry sociopaths. But that's just my opinion... :-)
Yes perhaps your right, it would be to hard to explain otherwise.
if you read "super imperialism" you will get a very good answer as to why we are in debt - we owe china $3 trillion or some such number - we own them - they cannot do much except recycle those dollars into our treasuries - very interesting and long history about how this system evolved
Yes it seems the systems was designed to do just what it does. Create debt. Money is debt and since its a number could go infinitely high.
Credit (debt) expansion could theoretically go on infinitely, but only if there is infinite growth (in real terms) to continually service that debt. Real growth cannot continue forever since we live on a finite planet with limited resources (soil, water, oil, fisheries, etc.). These resources are what debt is ultimately a claim on, whether directly or indirectly. And if old debt is rapidly defaulting due to a lack of growth in real resources to settle that debt, less and less new debt will be created b/c it can't be paid off completely in the future.
Yes I see your point, however I think the system has gone one step further and has now included Human Beings as a resource or a Product Producing Machine. This will keep the system functioning for quite some time as long as new beings are created. If you look closely at the cow farm you will see similarities in this practice.
A very good point indeed. I would point out though, that labor has always been seen as a significant input in economic theories, its just at this point in the game that the elite want to make labor outright slave labor. The youth especially in the US are being forced into debt serfdom through onerous student loan debt. And in their desperation (some) can and will do whatever to get to freedom (voluntarily serve in the armed forces in the next resource war for student debt forgiveness as an example).
I agree that the system could go on for a bit longer as we continue into population overshoot and continue to add more hungry mouths. But eventually that too will hit a tipping point b/c of numerous negative feedbacks: climate change, soil erosion & salinization, water scarcity, etc impacting agricultural output. Freshwater for human consumption becoming more scarce.
We have also entered a liquid fuels constrained world which will significantly impact the first word's industrial agricultural model which is heavily dependent on diesel fuel for farm machinery and trucks. Not to mention all the other fossil fuel inputs at every point in the agricultural process.
So while I agree with you, I also think that the system as started reaching physical limits to further expansion and growth. We are exiting the age of abundant industrialism and entering an era of scarcity industrialism that I feel will be characterized by more resource conflicts, an unwinding of the global economy, an end to the current credit based fiat currency and fractional reserve banking model, and an end to population growth, aggregate GDP growth, etc etc.
How this all plays out is anyone's guess, but this is why it is important that we all make our voices heard in these unprecedented times.
Very well put, our voices will be heard.
wars wars wars..
what do you think happened to the glorious french empire and louis xvi?
One country after the next. Its like musical chairs.
Yeah , but we get smarter as we go round
how true, it must all be worth it then
http://www.etsy.com/listing/78358542/state-of-the-union-by-velveeta
All of us have a gift to give
Here here
Whats the last four letters of American? I CAN
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Battleships are expensive.
I believe the gov is the biggest debtor. Instead of creating prosperity we create bombs.
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