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Forum Post: FDD Fast Direct Democracy - How is it possible?

Posted 2 years ago on Sept. 18, 2012, 3:19 p.m. EST by MatthewRKains (57)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

We need - FDD - Fast Direct Democracy.

How can we make this happen? The OWS general assemblies were much too slow and time consuming and that's why they vanished. How can we create a faster way to achieve the benefits of direct democracy?

How would you implement FDD?

38 Comments

38 Comments


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[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

vote with your name publicly

so anyone can verify the results

set up an open internet system to do so

[-] 1 points by ChristopherABrown (550) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

Democracy depends on opinion, opinion comes from information, information comes from meda?????

We need a re information system where the people can sort their own knowledge/information and KNOW it is right; THEN form opinion, then use direct democracy.

There is one proposal for software that will make peoples agreement the most visible thing.

http://algoxy.com/poly/poll_to_post.html

The last corporate software CEO that was asked to estimate the cost of development refused. He said, "That would make my company responsible for placing the people in dominance over corporations. I don't think I want us to be doing that."

[-] 1 points by Karlin (350) from Nelson, BC 2 years ago

Don't forget Iceland!! - they elected a new government of average people, and then that new government jailed their bankers who were demanding a bailout. -Googled> http://usahitman.com/idbob/

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[-] 1 points by Karlin (350) from Nelson, BC 2 years ago

And once that is done, how about also RE-WRITING America's famous constitution? Maybe some modern revisions are in order, plus an emphasis on the good stuff from yr. 1787 that is being ignored, re-done in modern language, plainly.

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[-] 1 points by Karlin (350) from Nelson, BC 2 years ago

Good point - the process would be hijacked by the powers that be. I feel no shame in having a discussion... and tossing out ideas.

[-] 1 points by ChristopherABrown (550) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

Yea, like Article V. Realize, the republic stands for democracy, therefore the democracy is dependent on the republic for enforcement of the principle that makes is great.

Here is the concept of "Preparatory Amendment".

http://articlevconvention.org/showthread.php?33-Amendment-By-Layers-Of-Priority-Amendment-Package-Making-CONST.-Intent

[-] 1 points by Karlin (350) from Nelson, BC 2 years ago

That link had a Firefox warning "possible attack site" - whats up with THAT??

[-] 1 points by ChristopherABrown (550) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

Hey, thanks for the heads up. I had heard that was popping up again. I don't see it with my mac.
I'll call the host tomorrow. It won't harm your machine. We are targeted for these nuisances regularly.

[-] 1 points by mac1 (1) 2 years ago

The OWS movement has demonstrated that its main aim is the recovery of the democratic process from the1% who clearly have no interest in democracy. The huge number of people at the occupy sites show the strength of support for the principles of the movement. "An occupation is space for all issues to be raised, discussed and put into action through a direct and consensus based process. An occupation turns a space into a forum for discussion and participatory democracy. By occupying a space, the physical structure of the camp reflects the goals of the people gathered." While occupy was a good strategy to raise awareness of the problems and guage the level of support for the movement ,surely it must be time to proceed to the next level." The change could be from occupy, to "Take back or Re-take or Take over", beginning with a group which is part of the 99%, , but works under the direction of the 1%, against the 99%..This group need to be reminded that it is the 99% who pay their salaries, a fact that they seem to have forgotten. Perhaps the next OWS gathering should be in the office of the Chief of Police.

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 2 years ago

PLEASE!!
Dreams are wonderful!!
How about seeing the truth.
Democracy did work.
Democracy does work.
Democracy will work.
The problem is simple to state and
simple to solve and
has enormous support in America:


MONEY IN POLITICS
A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT
80% SUPPORT TODAY


Please explain AT LEAST one major "OWS" issue that cannot be facilitated by doing what the vast majority want-
get the corrupting money out of government


do you seriously believe 30% of Americans even know what DD is ? do you have any polls that show at least 50% support for DD ?


Sorry if I sound pissed -
but I have seen so much OWS effort tilting at windmills
while the koch brothers buy our democracy.


We can do NOTHING without political power and VOTES
Too many of us refuse to see this reality

[-] 1 points by JustinDM (251) from Atascadero, CA 2 years ago

I'm afraid its too late to redeem these politicians. They have looted our treasury and raped our constitution. They must receive the justice of a free nation.

[-] 3 points by Karlin (350) from Nelson, BC 2 years ago

Once again, I must raise the example of Iceland - they elected a new government by electing candidates WITHOUT OLD-LINE PARTY AFFILIATIONS., and they voted for candidates who were NOT ELITES but just average people. In other words, they kicked out the old corrupt and entrenched politicians! America could do the same, methinks. Create an OWS party in time for the 2016 election [it is too late for the 2012 one I think, eh?]

[-] 1 points by LeoYo (5909) 2 years ago

Unfortunately, the US isn't Iceland. What is possible and what is plausible are two different things. One has to consider the social dynamic of Iceland influenced by its population size and cultural history. Dramatic change is much easier in a small nearly homogenous society than in a large multifacited society.

Alternate parties are not the solution. Voters exercising legal control over politicians, http://occupywallst.org/forum/freeda-template/ regardless of their party affiliations, solves the problem of political unaccountability.

[-] 1 points by Karlin (350) from Nelson, BC 2 years ago

WE certainly have some major hurdles to get over. Telling our elected respresentatives what to do SHOULD be our right - the constitution says politicians should REPRESENT us, not GOVERN us, but we have the latter.

The corruption of politicians starts when they take money from their Elite [1%] supporters and are then beholden to that evil money. This will start the "money out of politics" conversation, as it should be, but we need more assurances for, as you say "political accountability".

I do not disagree with you... I am just saying it is a tough row to hoe when they have allready been bought off.

Another solution is to have CANDIDATES who come from the ranks of average people. Sure, most politicians have law degrees, but really I don't think their job is all that difficult, and elected politicians get all the helpers they need.

Candidates from OWS ranks should form the government!!

[-] 1 points by LeoYo (5909) 2 years ago

It's simple but by no means easy. We're simply not going to get any assurances beyond that which comes from an affidavit. If the affidavit is dishonored and the courts don't uphold it, it is again upon the people to demonstrate in mass until a respect for their rights is upheld.

People can refuse to vote for anyone who makes more than the national median wage but it takes money to get into politics. I think, just to register to run for the senate takes at least $10,000 out of pocket. It can't be given to you. I don't know of anyone making median wage who has $10,000 to risk on running for federal office.

[-] 1 points by Karlin (350) from Nelson, BC 2 years ago

yo- Leo!! Good info, I didn't know that about costing $10G just to run for US Senate ... AND that it cant be given to you? Thats obviously meant to keep average folk from getting elected. OWS has to demand THAT change, eh?

[-] 1 points by LeoYo (5909) 2 years ago

First, the exact information on it will have to be brought forth. I only found out about it due to an article I had read several years ago (probably in 2008) about someone running in one of the southern states concerning a dispute about where the money came from for him to register. That so much money would be required to run for office in a so-called democracy and have to come from out of pocket was just unbelievable to me.

[-] 1 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 2 years ago

You have some excellent ideas. Keep on thinking on!

I just read your thoughts on Direct Democracy over the internet; It has potential.

Also, speaking to this post, maybe people should learn to vote from within their own class, no matter what the "experts" think.

[-] 1 points by Karlin (350) from Nelson, BC 2 years ago

Thanks for the encouragement. I have never seen a more positive minded group than OWS [most forums just slam every idea with sarcasm and anger].

"Voting within their own class" - as in voting for candidates that come from the ranks of average people, instead of voting for lawyers selected by the Dems or Reps? I definately agree, that is the Iceland example.... but there are very few such candidates - that selection process is controlled by party insiders. So, how to do it? {more, please! :} }

[-] 1 points by Karlin (350) from Nelson, BC 2 years ago

It is an intriguing idea for sure. I suppose the internet could help, but illiterate people would need a way to be involved too {not everyone can type} - maybe touch screen voting on propositions [i.e. "ideas"] put forward by "anyone" where first the proposition needs a certain number of people willing to get behind it in order to be put forward to government, and then the proposition gets debated and maybe refined [with the approval of the creator of it] and finally a VOTE over a period of a week or so where a "super-majority" [eg. 75%] of people in the juristiction vote to approve of it.

Identification would be an issue.. . maybe get everybody of voting age registered with a special internet pass I.D. for these special votes.

Whats your ideas?

[-] 1 points by podman73 (-652) 2 years ago

All of the issues you spoke of are fixable. They will be a bit painful but if you make systems redundant and backups and of course verification it is doable

[-] 1 points by MatthewRKains (57) 2 years ago

You made me think a lot. Wow! Your response was so much richer than the response I received from shooz. Night and day! Let me get back to you with my ideas in a few hours. You really got me scratching my head, and it's not because you gave me lice.

[-] 1 points by Karlin (350) from Nelson, BC 2 years ago

Cool, this is why I come to forums, to bat around ideas.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

You're the one writing for your doctorate, so why don't you tell us?

While you are at it, please explain how it will apply to some 300,000,000 people.

[-] 1 points by MatthewRKains (57) 2 years ago

My doctorate is on political reform during the the Khan dynasty. It's not related to direct democracy.

I'm asking the people here for ideas because I really don't have all the answers. Do you have some ideas on the matter?

I would say the only way to use direct democracy for a nation of roughly 300,000,000 people is to use a computer system of some sort. Perhaps there could be a system on the Internet which would be usable from home or public libraries. One great thing about direct democracy is that we don't have to worry about voter ID since we don't count votes. We only have to worry about blocks. If there are no blocks, there it is a consensus. I imagine we would throw a big party for the first consensus amongst 300,000,000 people!

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

That's not exactly what you said.

" I am doing my doctorate degree in political science"

After that statement you claimed to be a well read expert on direct democracy

You also claimed to be an underwear salesman. Including a snarky remark about going commando.

To that, all I can say is ........hmmmmmm.

[-] 1 points by MatthewRKains (57) 2 years ago

Yes, I'm doing a doctorate degree in political science and my thesis is on political reform during the Khan dynasty. Obviously, during my many years studying political science at university I studied many various political systems. Yes, I do sell underwear. It's a small family business that my father started when I was a child. I help the family part time. Most of the people I know who are doing their doctorate also work.

What about you? What type of schooling do you have? Do you work? Are you the journalist or private investigator for this website?

Now, do you have something to add to this discussion, or do you want to keep going off topic? I assume you do sometimes discuss Occupy?

What are your thoughts on how to achieve a faster system of direct democracy, and how would you implement it to serve a nation of 300,000,000 people.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

who@!

You left off the part about you being the expert.

I'm retired and I have no Phd. I can take a mean photograph though .

You make me glad I go commando...........................:)

[-] 1 points by MatthewRKains (57) 2 years ago

I guess you have no ideas that could help occupy in regards to direct democracy?

Thanks for the chat, and enjoy the freedom of going commando. Here's a tip from my dad: Next time you go commando, wear tight jogging pants and pop two pills of viagra. Take a brisk walk around the neighborhood and the newly divorcees of 40 or so will start looking at you. Just be proud of your bulge. You need to show utmost confidence. Good luck.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

I figured you started the thread to tell us all about it.

You are after all the proclaimed expert.

Or is some form of entrapment part of your plan?

PS: Tell your dad to stop doing that. It could get him arrested.

I wish him luck, though I hope your Mom is unaware of his behavior.

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[-] 1 points by Karlin (350) from Nelson, BC 2 years ago

History is great to know... examples, mistakes, etc... But as for the "what are you OFFICIALLY" I don't think that is so important now as the system has been corrupted.

Here at OWS we can grab onto good IDEAS that give themselves credibility.

PS - I am new here and just getting used to the names, so if I forgot who someone is, pls forgive me. I had made a "solidarity" with someone on forums last week... now I don't know who it was.... but I keep seeing ZenDog coming up with good thoughts.

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[-] 1 points by Karlin (350) from Nelson, BC 2 years ago

HA! Does he bite?

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