Welcome login | signup
Language en es fr

Forum Post: FDA Now Censoring Consumer Free Speech on the Internet

Posted 7 years ago on March 12, 2013, 8:40 p.m. EST by Gillian (1842)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

It's not safe to comment on the internet that any food or supplement made you feel better, look better or get healthier. If you do, beware:


The US Food and Drug Administration has recently issued warning letters to two different supplement companies. Here is what triggered one of them: supplement company AMARC Enterprises “liked” a Facebook customer testimonial about how their product helped “keep cancer at bay.” FDA says this means AMARC made a disease claim. Note that the customer did not even say that the product cured cancer, just that it helped keep the customer free of cancer.

Regardless of what the comment was, are companies now responsible for customer comments on social media pages, an increasingly important form of communication and interaction between companies and the public? If a company stops allowing customer comments that might get it in hot water with the FDA, then the agency has censored consumer speech.

Here is what triggered another FDA letter to a supplement company: on the website for M.D.R. Fitness Corp., if one types disease terms into the search box, one sees information about specific products. FDA claims this constitutes an “implied” disease claim.

This goes too far. It means that even a sentence such as, “Living in a healthy way can help avoid cancer or heart attacks,” will be disallowed. Certain words will be absolutely forbidden. This is a very slippery slope. Once this line is crossed, how far will the FDA go?

What is behind all this craziness? Under the Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (FD&C), a drug is defined as a product “intended for use in the diagnosis, cure, mitigation, treatment, or prevention of disease in man or other animals.” FDA regulates health claims made on product labels (including supplement labels). Under this “intended use” doctrine, the FDA can conclude that a product is a “drug” based solely on a company’s promotional claims or, as with last year’s federal appeals court case of US v. Caronia, statements made by an advertiser or promoter.

For example, garlic becomes an illegal drug if an advertiser claims that the product will cure food poisoning, even though this is verifiably true. Similarly, manuka honey becomes an illegal drug if a seller mentions that it will stop skin infections (also verifiably true, as even the New York Times has reported). There are many, many such examples.

The “intended use” doctrine can also magically change many non-traditional products into drugs or medical devices. For example, last year the FDA said the agency would likely regulate medical mobile apps on smart phones and tablets because they essentially transform a device into a regulated medical device. Developers of the apps would not be considered medical device makers unless they were marketing the product as being intended for medical uses—not unlike FDA’s approach to supplements. Now Congress is concerned about whether manufacturers of such apps will be subject to excise taxes under the Affordable Care Act.

FDA’s new warnings seem to defy the judge’s decision in US v. Caronia which, as we noted in December, mostly underscored protections of free commercial speech. FDA is using a very broad interpretation of what constitutes a disease claim, explicit or especially implied. As any Facebook user realizes, a “like” may simply be a passive acknowledgement of someone’s comment; surely it is a stretch to consider any comment that even mentions cancer to be a disease claim!

It is notable that FDA decided not to appeal the US v. Caronia ruling because the agency “does not believe that the Caronia decision will significantly affect the agency’s enforcement of the drug misbranding provisions of the Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act.” With these latest warning letters, they’re certainly acting as if the Caronia ruling never happened.

They may, however, be a little worried. The agency buried the above warnings amid a list of other alleged infractions. The agency seems to be trying to expand its Internet regulatory reach in a piecemeal under-the-radar fashion. We need to let them know we are noticing. We also need to pass the Free Speech About Science Act.

Action Alert! Tell the FDA to stop trying to censor consumer free speech and Internet searches! Let the agency know it has gone too far. Send your message today!



Read the Rules
[-] 2 points by PublicCurrency (1387) 7 years ago

home of the sheeple and land of the slave . . .

[-] 2 points by analystwanabe99 (153) 7 years ago

Fuk the FDA. Go online and make a statement about a supplement and if enough people do it they will be swamped with reports to investigate and take up all their time. Occupy the net!!!!

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 7 years ago

It is funny that they attack natural health foods - I suppose that that is because pharma tells their would be customers all about how their product can be worse then the disease?

[-] 4 points by Gillian (1842) 7 years ago

Hi DK, How have you been? FDA has been attacking so many doctors who make suggestions as how a food or nutrient can benefit a person. Dr. Oz, Dr. Mercola, Dr. Weil have all been attacked.

What the FDA and Big Pharma are attempting to do is overturn DSHEA (1994) that very basically insulated dietary supplements from being regulated as drugs/medications. It's difficult for them to justify that vitamin C found in oranges needs a prescription since that would require them to limit the number of oranges anyone could purchase or consume. However, despite this insanity, they ARE attempting to do this. Consumers need to be aware that pharmaceutical grade Vit. C is not the same animal as that found in an orange. Synthetic nutrients, made in labs are not perceived by our bodies as nutrients...instead as toxins and therefore, are not as readily metabolized as naturally occurring whole food nutrients. This also explains why most if not all scientific studies on (synthetic) supplements produce negative outcomes. In 05 the pharma industry launched a panic attack on Vitamin E, claiming it was unsafe and even deadly. What they didn't tell anyone is that all the study participants were already diagnosed with a chronic disease, were geriatrics and were taking the wrong form of Vit.E- the most common form found in over the counter vitamins- alpha-tocopherol..NOT tocotrienols.
About 05, a boy died on a football field during practice and was found to be taking pseudoephedrine, so they banned ephedra supplement but did not ban pseudoephedrine found in cold tablets. I've not ever heard of anyone dying from ephedra and it's been used for hundreds of years, perhaps thousands in eastern medicine.

Yet, more than 50 thousand people in America were harmed or killed by Vioxx before they would ban it.

It's all about forcing consumers to have to go to the doctor to get a prescription for a vitamin or mineral. The drug companies want to patent their synthetic vitamins and charge excessive prices. Of course this will also 'kill' us because the nutrients they would be prescribing are toxic substances that do more harm than good. Given that most of our food is nutrient deprived, we do need to supplement but it's time to throw away the One a Day and look for a whole food vitamin.

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 7 years ago

Hey Gillian - I am fine - You? Good comment. Synthetics are not accepted very well by our body. All Natural Is The Way To Go. Also a vitamin and nutritional supplement regimen is to support the bodies proper functioning and is a long term practice for good health - many people do not realize - health is an every day practice - not an issue to be dealt with like dieting ( which is also a wrong thing to do - as diet should also be long term - not sporadic ).

[-] 4 points by Gillian (1842) 7 years ago

I'm doing so so...very stressed about my future, etc...

Dieting is really only best for someone who is 60, already in great shape and just trying to fit into their prom gown for the class reunion. ;D

My ultimate diet consists of daily sex, love and rockn'roll and of course lots of organic veggie snacks and chocolate. I WISH!
Oh well, it's nice healthful thought for meditation. ;D

The greenhouse is up and I already have several tomatoes that are flowering. I should have fruit in a few more weeks. Yeeeha!

Finished my house-sitting job on Monday and guess what? One of my customers returned on Sunday and last night, their central dehumidifier caught on fire! OMG!! Thank goodness that didn't happen while they were away as it was not the day of my regularly scheduled visit. It seems that more and more of these heating and air appliances are faulty.

[-] 5 points by Renneye (3874) 7 years ago

Lol! Omg, my dear woman...will you marry me??

Love that diet! Don't forget dancing...


re; your question below...

Other than needing 3 of me, to get everything done, I'm doing alright. I'm celiac, so I finally got my act straight and went on gluten free diet. I'm starting to feel much better. Thanks for asking, Gillian. Its so great to hear about your greenhouse! Spring's a comin'...hang in there!

[-] 6 points by Gillian (1842) 7 years ago

Renneye you're such a fireball ;D I think about at least one thing we've discussed on here at least once a day and I smile...ie...Lingonberries ;D

It's a good thing you are Gluten-free now because gluttony is one of the seven deadly sins! hahahhaha

I actually believe that we would all benefit from a gluten free diet. We are all mostly corn and wheat isotopes anymore. Do you enjoy spelt bread? I can't remember the other kind that I ate...I think it was the Ezekiel seeded bread. I'm not an expert on gluten-free and mostly rely on labeling but I do try to reduce the amount of wheat in my diet as it seems to land straight on my hips if I don't. ;(

Yes, I will marry you since you are no longer a glutton as long as I can bring my two dogs. I hope you're not allergic to lots of furry love ;D

[-] 4 points by Renneye (3874) 7 years ago

Wooohoooooo!!! She said YES!!!!!

I'll be waiting for you in the middle of a field of wildflowers. Bring the doggies, I'm not allergic. They can scamper and romp in the field, while we feast on all things lingonberries.

I thought I wasn't going to include this, lest someone out there gets the wrong impression, ~.^ but its sweet, so here you go...


You belong among the wildflowers,

You belong somewhere close to me.

Far away from your trouble and worries

You belong somewhere you feel free.

~ Tom Petty, Wildflowers


Wildflowers last late into the season, when other flowers have given up...

You are a wildflower, Gillian.


You're correct Gillian. I personally believe, as do many others...some doctors included, that gluten is not good for anyone. Gluten is a 'neurotoxin'. A poison. Would we consume a milli-drop of arsenic every day? No. I happen to be ultra sensitive to gluten, so my symptoms are very obvious, but it effects everyone...just at a much slower pace. Which of course makes it difficult to see that it is the culprit for so many problems.

Many believe that diabetes would be eradicated if gluten were absent from the food system. Wheat was never meant for human consumption. It doesn't help that many gluten free foods just replace the gluten with corn. Corn isn't a whole lot better for humans health-wise, as you know.

I was very sick, and very tired. There was a whole lot of damage done before I was diagnosed, but the fog from the chronic fatigue is starting to lift, which is a real bonus. I hope it continues.

I know, eh?! They couldn't have come up with a better name than 'gluten'? Too close to glutton. Sheesh!!

I have tried the various gluten free breads, but they are cost prohibitive. I try to stay away from the complex carbs anyway, and stick with fresh fruit, veggies, meat and fish. I do use the gluten free seasonings though, and the cereal bars for snacks.

I'm doing ok with it. A very good friend inspired me to get back to it. Starting to feel healthy is an addictive feeling, and it gets to where you just don't want to eat the gluten filled food any more.

Hey, keep us up to date on how things are going with you. Oh, and I LOVE your health posts!

[-] 6 points by Gillian (1842) 7 years ago

Oh gosh Renneye, what a beautiful thing to tell me. Your words are deeply appreciated more than you could ever know and will be remembered, always.

That's truly amazing and wonderful how your gluten-free diet has improved your well-being and you are SO right that feeling healthy becomes addictive. I wish so much that everyone could experience this awakening and addiction ;D

Years ago, after I met my current Integrative doctor, I experienced the very same revelation and it really stunned me to realize that I had spent most of my life feeling 'bad' or at the very least sub par, and didn't even realize just how bad it was until I started feeling good! I was ignorant and naive and asked my doctor why it was the he could teach me so much in one visit and change my life as he did and in 40+ years of misery no other doctor could. It's very frustrating for me to know how many Americans visit doctors on a regular basis and get no education, just medication and never really get to know what it feels like to be healthy and full of vitality. They pay thousands of dollars annually to a rigged healthcare system that keeps them sick. In only one month after beginning my wellness journey with my doctor, I felt like a brand new woman and I could not even eat a fast food hamburger without feeling the drunken effects (fog, exhaustion) for two days!

Oh before I forget...if you get a chance to view the documentary, " King Corn".. . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvMxIEgbsIo&wide=1

it's one of those eye-openers about how much corn is in our diet. Corn is in virtually everything we eat! All the carbon in our bodies originates from corn! I don't feed my dogs standard dog food anymore because of the high corn content in those convenient foods. Amazingly, they have taught me almost as much as my doctor has about appetite, nutrition and healthy weight. In the past ten years or more, it seems that even our pets are suffering an epidemic of cancers and chronic diseases. People really should take notice. The animals teach us about ourselves and our environment. I discovered that if my dogs are eating a healthy diet of unprocessed whole foods and grass-fed meats that they don't have an insatiable appetite and eat less which costs me less in the long term. I get the cheap organ meats and cheap cuts of beef and buffalo from a local nearby farm and they eat carrots for their ( cookies), blueberries, beets, barley and barley greens, quinoa, apples and other goodies. I don't feed them any rice. I enjoy a little brown rice every so often but it's really one of those empty filler foods, you know?

Corn gluten is what I use for my garden weed control! It's very effective even though it's expensive but, pay now or pay later. I don't want any chemicals in my garden. Canadians are so very strict about the use of pesticides and insecticides and lawn and garden chemicals. That's another reason why I want to move there. Living in America makes me feel like I'm living in a toxic waste land of gluttons that have no appreciation or value for the environment or their personal health. Every summer, they spray mosquitoes from airplanes and I have to cover all my crops. For several days after, I find dead bees everywhere and it just makes me cry, literally! ( I love, love, love! bees)

So where is this beautiful field of lingonberries? ;D


[-] 4 points by gsw (3324) from Woodbridge Township, NJ 7 years ago

Good post. Good writing. Hard to prosper with dirty air water food.


[-] 3 points by Renneye (3874) 7 years ago

Aww that's sweet...you're quite welcome m'Lady.

Its funny that you mention about our pets and how they are suffering the same ailments as people are. I have often thought that our pets have become the food industry's proverbial "canary in the coalmine". Also, when I was finally diagnosed at 40, yes it took 4 decades to get properly diagnosed (I'm 48 now), the best information I read at that time was by a veterinarian by the name of 'dogtorj', who was quite sick himself.

He noticed his furry patients coming in with the same sorts of ailments, and made the connection to diet. Consequently, he got tested for gluten sensitivity and discovered he was Celiac.

He has really good 'layman's terms' information on his website that I just don't encounter on other sites. I especially like the treasure trove of info he has on, "The G.A.R.D. The Universal Diet", where it states...

"A central theme was the attention-grabbing fact that all four of these foods were the only ones used to make 'industrial adhesives', supporting the concept that these dietary proteins (glycoproteins) stick to the lining of the intestinal tract and do direct harm to the delicate villi lining the gut in sensitized individuals."

Quite literally, these 'foods' are a 'glue'. Is it any wonder our systems are all gunked up?


It was the same for me Gillian. Since I was sick from birth, I had no idea just how sick I was till I went gluten free. Its when I got contaminated again that I realized the degree to which I was sick. Quite an extraordinary revelation. I just couldn't believe how it was, that I didn't know. One becomes 'used to' being sick. It's been a process, but I'm committed to it now.

Thanks kindly for the 'King Corn' video. I've watched half so far, and will take the rest late tonight. That reminds me of when I had a hair analysis done years ago, and discovered a very serious zinc deficiency. I think it may be time to have that done again.

"The carbon in our bodies originates from corn." This statement induced massive amounts of giggles, as I envisioned how the oligarchs will try to collect a carbon tax on our bodies, lol!! Don't think they haven't at least discussed it! " Yes, that's it! We'll charge them by the pound!"

Canada, you say! Well, we'd only be better for having you here, Gillian.

Now, about those lingonberries! There are a few lingonberry farms in Ontario Canada, but lingonberries grow best in coniferous wooded areas, so I thought we'd meet in a field of beautiful wildflowers, and then take the dogs for a walk in the woods just off to the side of the field while we collected some. We'd bring those home, because I already brought a luscious picnic with me, with lingonberry preserves, some homemade bread (gluten free), edam cheese, some cured salmon, dilled potatoes, and for desert we'd have 'Kanelbullar' (Swedish cinnamon buns), and of course, some lingonbery wine. Just let me know when m'Lady...I'll be waiting. ~.^

You're a sweetheart Gillian! Thanks for playing along. : )

[-] 2 points by Gillian (1842) 7 years ago

Who's playing? Salmon? edam cheese? Dilled Potatoes! Have I died and gone to heaven? Swedish cinnamon buns? OMG. You have no idea how good that sounds.

It's rather odd Renneye that I have adopted so many Swedish and Danish dietary habits as well as having many possessions that are Danish. My entire kitchen consists of nothing but old Danish pots and cooking utensils. I haven't found better design in any others. I don't believe that anyone in my family was Scandinavian but there must be a genetic link somewhere.

Oh yes, we are definitely ' Children of the Corn'....... the Carbon Corn Tax.......Lovely, eh? We better gluten our lips shut about that topic...hahahhaha

When I was a child, I made glue out of flour and water. As I grew older and would prepare stews or soups that required both, I began to wonder how healthy that glue could possibly be in my GI tract! Have you ever noticed how many stupid things we do when we don't connect the dots?

Canada has more to offer in natural health than we do. My dog nutritionist is in Canada and she helps me design species appropriate diets for my special needs rescue dogs. I always thought Gary Null was in Canada but maybe I'm wrong?? My dear friend and her husband packed up their belongings in 2010 and left America without even seeing the house they purchased online! They now live in Yarmouth, NS and she absolutely loves it. She said that when she arrived, she finally felt at home and began sobbing with joy and relief! I would probably do the same and I actually do have ancestry in NS. I'm also a fiddle player. Have you ever seen Natalie MacMaster? I think she lives near Ontario with her husband and children now. She's truly one of the most beautiful souls I've ever met. Check out some of her Utube videos if you want to feel happy and energetic.
I shall return!

[-] 2 points by Renneye (3874) 7 years ago

Thanks for 'Gary Null' Gillian! I could get lost in the articles on his website for a whole day!

Rescue dogs?? You train rescue dogs as well? AND you're a fiddle player? Oh mon dieu! Is there anything you don't do?

Ahh, Yarmouth, Nova Scotia! I travelled to the eastern provinces of Canada some years back...and its the kind of place that just gets under your skin. You just want to go back, ya know? I've traveled Europe too when I was a child. I've been a little tired of Southern Ontario for about 5 years now. I get the wanderlust, and places like the east coast among many others come back to me. Lately though, Ecuador comes to mind. There's a large north american population there and growing. Ahhh, to be sitting down there on a pier, dipping your feet in the tranquil azure blue water.

I've seen Natalie MacMaster on youtube and probably on tv years ago. She's a sweetheart...it emanates from her. I love almost all types of music, I sure would love to hear you play something. Are you on youtube?

Hey, how's your garden coming? There's a thread on the forum about seeds you might find interesting. Looks like the 'heirloom' seeds are the way to go...


[-] 2 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 7 years ago

It's good to have friends that inspire. Be sure to tell him or her what a great person they are.

[-] 5 points by Renneye (3874) 7 years ago

You're right 'gm'... a friend like that may only come along once in a lifetime.

I'll have to come up with a really special way to say thanks.

Good to see you on the forum again recently.

[-] 3 points by Middleaged (5140) 7 years ago

Ran out of room. Thanks for inspiring me. I like what you said below about being here for community and helping each other.

[-] 1 points by Renneye (3874) 7 years ago

How's that tea Ma? Are you bundled up yet?

Yeah, I'm really enjoying how the forum is evolving lately,especially among the regulars. We've been here almost a year and a half now and people are really getting to know each other and helping each other out with things. Like you say, 'community'.

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 7 years ago

Plum Island?

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 7 years ago

Oh, felt better yesterday. Today don't seem to have the cold. Been sleeping in and did the raw garlic, Spirulina tablets, and a pint of blueberries, some cranberry juice, and your green tea a couple of times...plus B Stress complex with vit C....

[-] 1 points by Renneye (3874) 7 years ago

That's great news Ma. Very glad to hear you've recovered. Looks like you know what you're doing too! That's quite the healthy schedule you have going there, I have to say! I've never tried Spirulina tablets before, but fresh water algae makes all the sense in the world. Kudos on your renewed health Ma!

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 7 years ago

Thanks 4 the Support, RE. 20 years ago there was a company selling super blue-green algae. Anyway the industry has been selling it for like 20 years. I guess purity is probably the key.

Wow, strange news all week long too. Cyprus bank holiday, toddlers getting shot. Woman jumped from a building with baby strapped on her chest. Joe Bidden spends 500,000 dollars on one nite in paris.

[-] 1 points by Renneye (3874) 7 years ago

The world has gone royally koo-koo Ma. Do you suppose it has anything at all to do with the GWEN towers? Uh-oh, did I really say that? Kidding Ma!

The fact is there are a lot of very desperate and unhappy people out there who see no future for themselves or their children...and unless we take our world back from the thugs who now run it, this chaos and bloodlust will continue. We need a 'People's Society'!

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 7 years ago

Got to go to sleep. I'm starting to cough now. I did try the tea, so maybe it will help overnite. You sound positive. Being positive sounds like a spiritual help.

[-] 2 points by Builder (4202) 7 years ago

Apologies for being blunt with certain regulars, but I too am feeling a growing familiar feel to this forum.

It's not like we are all strangers after so long now.

[-] 2 points by Renneye (3874) 7 years ago

No apologies necessary Builder. Good friends can speak to each other with candor. How else will we get to the heart of the matter? And yes, the familiarity feels good.


"The effect of the indulgence of this human affection is a certain cordial exhilaration. In poetry, and in common speech, the emotions of benevolence and complacency which are felt towards others are likened to the material effects of fire; so swift, or much more swift, more active, more cheering, are these fine inward irradiations. From the highest degree of passionate love, to the lowest degree of good-will, they make the sweetness of life."

"I do not wish to treat friendships daintily, but with roughest courage. When they are real, they are not glass threads or frostwork, but the solidest thing we know. For now, after so many ages of experience, what do we know of nature, or of ourselves? Not one step has man taken toward the solution of the problem of his destiny. In one condemnation of folly stand the whole universe of men. But the sweet sincerity of joy and peace, which I draw from this alliance with my brother's soul, is the nut itself, whereof all nature and all thought is but the husk and shell. Happy is the house that shelters a friend!"

~ Ralph Waldo Emerson - Excerpts from Friendship Essays


[-] 2 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 7 years ago

Yeah, I've been busy recently with some personal issues. Good to see you back as well. We've missed you. Where have you been?

And you should always cherish your friends. I've made the bad mistake of neglecting mine at times, something I do regret.

[-] 4 points by Renneye (3874) 7 years ago

Well, I've been quite busy lately, but I'm here more than you'd think. Probably 95% of my time on the forum is spent reading. I don't post so much any more.

I feel like I've said my piece, and made my peace on the subjects that come up here. Especially politics and the partisan divisive stuff. Now I gravitate to the threads that focus on the exposure of the oligarchs' criminal fananglings, and positive solutions for humanity, from health to new methods of governing ourselves.

As far as neglecting friends at times...that's the great thing about 'true' friends, one phone call will set things right again. They'll love to hear from you.

[-] 3 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 7 years ago

I've been doing a fair bit of 'lurking' here as well. Not a lot of commenting until recently. And I also try to avoid the political and partisan threads, although I do backslide sometimes. I'm like you, more interested in exposing the oligarchs, and subjects that deal with the nonpolitical aspects of OWS. The health threads, sometimes the economic ones although I don't know much about it. And some of the recent ones about restoring our food supply to a healthier more localized system are good. I came across what looks like a good book on the subject, but I've only read the intro so far:


Speaking of the oligarchs, recently I was trying to find info on whether there was truth to the rumor Monsatan only serves organic in their cafeterias but most of what's out there references a single dubious article from 1999, however I did come across this page that you might find interesting:


And good advice about neglected friends. I really should make those calls. Thanks, 'Renneye.' ybd

[-] 1 points by Renneye (3874) 7 years ago

Thanks for that link 'gm'. I read the intro and yes it does look good. Worth the read for sure.

Restoring the local food supply is something that is near and dear to my heart. I can't find the thread I put up last year on the community gardens in San Fransisco, but here are a couple of other sites on the growing community garden movement there. Community gardens are the way of the future I think. We just have to make sure no new laws come in that will shut us down.



I have a decent size backyard (about 3000 sq. ft.), and as I'm getting some health back, I'm thinking I'd love to erect a Bio-dome for year round gardening and fresh fruits and veggies. Yum!! My kids will love it!

Interesting link. Nothing would surprise me with Monsatan. Of course they would serve their employees organic and non-genetically modified food. They can't have their employees dying, now can they? Wouldn't be good for business if their employees started keeling over one by one.

And I can't even look at Bill Gates any more. If I ever see him, I have to turn my head. The creep!

"Bill Gates outlined his planned "digital revolution" of the world's food supply in Rome, Italy on February 23, 2012. He was grilled by reporters regarding his heavy promotion of genetically modified foods, to whom he retorted, “You should go out and talk to people growing rice and say do they mind that it was created in a laboratory when their child has enough to eat?”[3] This seems to be a false dichotomy: 'Eat poisonous genetically modified food or die of starvation."

That's just so wrong on so many levels.

Thanks 'gm'. Good speaking with you again.

[-] 2 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 7 years ago

Just looking at Gates gets my blood boiling. I've despised the man long before he became a globalist. I watched him rather closely back in the early to mid nineties when I was into computers a lot. He was an evil bastard back then, crushing the little guys right and left. You'd have some guy that came up with a nifty new program somewhere, Gates would come in and strong-arm him to sell out. If the guy didn't want to, Gates would use his programmers to come up with something similar and then give it away for free in the next Windows upgrade, essentially putting the little guy out of business. I really can't stand the fucker.

Your idea of a bio-dome sounds great. here's a couple more links to look at. One's from a post the other night, but you might have seen it. It's a short Ted talk. The other one is about building your own bio-dome.



Good talking to you too. We'll have to do it again sometime.

[-] 1 points by Gillian (1842) 7 years ago

Gates gets my blood boiling too!! He's one of the most dangerous philanthropists ever because he seems so innocent and ' sweet' in a boyish sort of way.

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 7 years ago

It sounds like you have finally found peace. You are now looking at more pastoral pursuits. LOL....

Sorry I have a head cold this week... been trying to avoid the off the shelf meds so far. Anyway don't seem to concentrate well lately.

[-] 2 points by Renneye (3874) 7 years ago

You're right Ma, lol!! I've got visions of wildflowers and willow trees dancing around in my head!

Sorry to hear about the head cold Ma! I use 'wild oil of oregano' for those kinds of things. Works like a charm. I'll PM you tomorrow with the instructions on how to take it. Have some green tea tonight, if you can, and bundle up!

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 7 years ago

Oh thanks. I could use some tea now ... thanks for the support, Renneye.

[-] 3 points by Renneye (3874) 7 years ago

Any time, my friend...any time.

That's what OWS is all about, isn't it. Looking out for our fellow human beings.

[-] 1 points by Gillian (1842) 7 years ago

I use oil of oregano too....." Oreganol" or something like that. My only gripe despite its effectiveness, is the oregano burp that follows. I also use garlic/Kyolic brands which are amazing and also sea buckthorn.

[-] 1 points by Renneye (3874) 7 years ago

Lol!! That aftertaste can be a real kicker! I've managed to get rid of most of it though. Do you take it with the water method?

I just swear by Oil of Oregano as a natural antibiotic!! I've PMed a couple of people with this way of taking 'Wild Oil of Oregano'...you probably already know, but maybe others will get something from it...


Make sure to take it for one to two weeks depending on how sick you are, but no longer than two weeks. It will have the same effect on you as regular antibiotics if you go past two weeks. Like an overgrowth of yeast in the body, then you're into bigger problems.

Wild Oil of Oregano has a very strong taste, and you have to take it a certain way or it will 'burn' your mouth.

The best way I found to take it is...

  1. Undo the lid of the Oil of Oregano bottle and fill the dropper about half way. Hold the dropper in your hand.

  2. Have a large glass full of cold water in your other hand.

  3. Take a good sip of water (enough to fill about half of your mouth. Don't swallow it, but tilt your head back and open your mouth. Keep holding the glass in your hand.

  4. Carefully drop 4 drops of Oil of Oregano into the center of your mouth into the water you have in your mouth. Be very careful not to touch the dropper to your lips or it will feel like a bad burning sensation.

  5. Quickly swallow the contents of your mouth, and immediately chug the rest of the water from the glass.

The idea is to do all this as quickly as possible so the oil in your mouth doesn't spread in the water to the walls of your mouth.

Garlic has amazing healing qualities...but I'll have to look into sea buckthorn. Thanks Gillian!

[-] 2 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 7 years ago

From below:

"Gates gets my blood boiling too!! He's one of the most dangerous philanthropists ever because he seems so innocent and ' sweet' in a boyish sort of way."

That's what's so scary about the man. The way he can stand up there with that innocent-looking smile and talk so casually about such things as depopulation and GM food. He's a megalomaniac, and like all megalomaniacs, envisioned controlling the world back in the '90's by controlling the world's computer networks via Windows. It was only by government intervention, an anti-trust charge, that he was forced to back down. Which is why he made an about-face and decided to prop up Apple, the company he was hell-bent on destroying. And of course, the media twisted the story and made Gates look like "a good guy."

Another interesting story about Gates and Windows, during a couple of early versions of Windows, his programmers had inserted code that would allow Microsoft to essentially spy on its users. The first time he got caught, the Feds made him stop, citing invasion of privacy issues. A few years later he got caught again and the Feds intervened for the same reason. Then at some point, the Feds realized the implications of such a good thing and now allow it because they're now benefiting from it.

[-] 1 points by Gillian (1842) 7 years ago

I've always 'known' that MS was spying. I don't believe they are the only ones. Anything we put on our computers is monitoring our habits anymore. I never believed that the Feds were opposed to it and most likely pretended to be at one time just to reassure Americans that our ' justice system' is still working. I've noticed too that as Americans find their way around installing certain software, that new versions of an operating system will come out and not allow one to do that anymore. Most everything we use and purchase today is controlling us in some way

Gates try to impress the world with his concern about education and world health and really all he seems to be is a spokesperson for the CDC- promoting fear of impending epidemics and encouraging all sorts of expensive and unnecessary medical treatments. Why Buffet gave all that money to Gates is beyond me. Buffet may be stinking rich but I always thought he had more wisdom than to contribute to the human demise.

[-] 2 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 7 years ago

Good point about the Feds 'pretending' to uphold the law. It could easily have been a smokescreen. I wouldn't doubt it, I can't remember where I read it, it's been almost twenty years. And the practice of new software not supporting older programs is infuriating because they could easily write the new programs so they support the older ones, it's all about the money, of course. Software is a racket. The open-source community are gods in my book.

I hadn't heard about Buffett giving Gates a ton of money, but just Googled it. It makes one wonder about Buffett's motivations. But, alas, he is "one of them" after all.

[-] 1 points by Gillian (1842) 7 years ago

Buffet won't give his grandkids or even his own brother a penny but he gives millions to Gates. I can't remember his reasons specifically but he believed that Gates would use the money to better humanity. I remember it happening at the time when Buffet played poor-man's advocate and kept talking about how his secretary paid more taxes than he did. THEN he gave Bill all that money?

I use open office but do you know of others? Please share!

Oh and beware of the ' cloud'. Anyone who stores documents or accounting/financial files in the Cloud is a lunatic.

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 7 years ago

I used to think Buffett was one of the rare 'good guys.' But if so, why would he deny his own family yet donate billions to Bill Gates? I don't know the whole story, but it makes me wonder.

[-] 1 points by Gillian (1842) 7 years ago

People are really strange about their money. It ranks up there with one of the leading causes of family dysfunction, resentments and estrangements. I understand that Buffett wants his family to earn their own way in life and build good character. But, to refuse to help your grand daughter with tuition seems rather selfish and it's as if he believes his money is different than anyone else's so he only shares it with those who have the same ' kind'.

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 7 years ago

It reminds me of Bing Crosby. He had amassed a fortune estimated between 200 million and 400 million by the time he died in 1977. Like Buffett, he wanted his kids to "earn their own way" and had stipulated in his will that his kids couldn't touch the trust fund until they turned 65. I think that's pretty excessive. His youngest son, Lindsay, committed suicide when he was about 50 because he was broke and couldn't support his family. Tragic.

[-] 1 points by Gillian (1842) 7 years ago

Oh my gosh! That's horrible! Wasn't Henry Ford sort of like toward his son too? Maybe the Depression had some sort of effect. I remember my grandmother forcing me to sift through a McDonald's trash can because I accidentally threw away two pennies that were left in the take-out tray. It took me forever to find the pennies and finally someone from inside the restaurant came out to help me!

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 7 years ago

I hadn't heard that about Henry Ford but I wouldn't doubt it. But I really don't get that about Bing. I could see making them wait until thirty, even forty, but jeez, by sixty-five most your good years are over. Assuming you even make it that long.

Wow, your grandma actually made you do that? I guess the Depression did have an effect, at least on the less fortunate. I know that my mom knew where every penny was at all times. There was no snatching spare change out of her purse!

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 7 years ago

I would never use the 'cloud,' I think it has ulterior motives. Well, I know it does. As far as open-source, it depends on what you like to do. I use Gimp for images and photos. It's like open-source Photoshop. And I also use Open Office. That's about it for me. I use freeware whenever possible, like Avast for virus protection, Snapshot for screen capture. I use Draftsight from Dassault Systems, but that's a CAD program, so you probably don't have any use for that. That's about it.


[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 7 years ago

LOL - Dieting - though your idea for a balanced(?) diet which you follow-up with has lots of merit. {;-]) I new you would have the greenhouse going - I could feel it ( the determination ) when we talked about it before.

Yes the new appliances - such a dismal showing for dependability. But how else are the assholes gonna force new sales as soon/fast as they want them? Glad that you were not there to have to deal with a fire.

[-] 2 points by Gillian (1842) 7 years ago

The crazy thing about that fire is that the homeowner was not supposed to return for another two weeks but decided at the last minute to come home early!!!!

Happiness, joy, love and making music, of course makes us thin, lowers our blood pressure, lowers cholesterol, stimulates endorphins and loads more.

Every day I search on Craig's list and Ebay for vintage appliances. The problem is that they are very expensive ( due to higher demand?) and or the industry is making it impossible to find replacement parts which of course, forces us to buy their disposable junk.

It's time to put on my apron and bonnet and get to work. Have a good day!

[-] 2 points by Renneye (3874) 7 years ago

Wow! You go girl!!

[-] 2 points by Gillian (1842) 7 years ago

HI Renneye, how have you been?



[-] 1 points by mideast (506) 7 years ago

I am NOT a medical or vitamin expert, but I have seen both sides of the "natural" argument for many years.
Obviuously eating an orange has many benefits over a vitamin c pill
but between cost of fresh foods and the reality of life today, the un-biased info below seems much more reliable than the pill pushers OR the fresh pushers.
Of course it relates to C only

From the Linus Pauling Institute The Bioavailability of Different Forms of Vitamin C Jane Higdon, R.N., Ph.D. LPI Research Associate

It is possible to find vitamin C (ascorbic acid) in many different forms with any number of claims regarding its efficacy or bioavailability. Bioavailability refers to the degree to which a nutrient becomes available to the target tissue after it has been administered. Our conclusions about the various forms of vitamin C based on the available scientific evidence follow. More information and references are posted on the LPI Micronutrient Information Center.

Natural vs. synthetic ascorbic acid: Natural and synthetic ascorbic acid are chemically identical. As assessed by at least two studies, there appears to be no clinically significant difference in the bioavailability and bioactivity of natural ascorbic acid and synthetic ascorbic acid.

• Different forms of ascorbic acid (powders, tablets, etc.): The gastrointestinal absorption of ascorbic acid occurs through an active transport process, as well as through passive diffusion. At low gastrointestinal concentrations of ascorbic acid active transport predominates, while at high gastrointestinal concentrations active transport becomes saturated, leaving only passive diffusion. In theory, slowing down the rate of gastric emptying (e.g. by taking ascorbic acid with food or taking a slow-release form of ascorbic acid) should increase its absorption. The bioavailability of ascorbic acid appears equivalent whether it is in the form of powder, chewable tablets, or non-chewable tablets. Moreover, bioavailability of ascorbic acid from slow-release preparations has not been found to be greater than that of plain ascorbic acid.

[-] 1 points by Gillian (1842) 7 years ago

Pauling is a hero! Did the research account for bioflavinoids not found in synthetic preps? I may be mistaken but I remember reviewing this very same information at LPI years ago and discovering that the study did not address the specific cofactors found in food that increase bioavailability either. Ester C is supposed to be the best prep if you cannot use whole food vitamins.

[-] 1 points by mideast (506) 7 years ago

What I read covered many types of synthetic C - that I excluded.
They did NOT cover all of the real food "extras" that are obvious.
Just the chemical equivalance C=C

[-] 1 points by Gillian (1842) 7 years ago

That's right..just Ascorbic acid but that compound by itself really doesn't account for the benefits. So why take it? Vit C bioflavinoids are only found in whole food C.

[-] 1 points by mideast (506) 7 years ago

Sorry to be a nag - especially this is not my expertise - but here is the bioflavinoids
very easy to find on the in ternet

again - not my issue BUT as a novice, it looks like this:

prescription drugs claiming benefits require FDA testing
to prove their statements

supplements are not allowed to make claims because they do not go thru tests. One problem might be that there are probably over 100 different vitamin C formulations. Who is going to pay for the tests?

[-] 1 points by Gillian (1842) 7 years ago

That's not true about supplements not being subjected to clinical trials and research. Lots of research out there to be reviewed but few doctors who know how to interpret it or apply it- although that is changing as more and more doctors realize the benefits of proper nutrition in the diet and pursue Integrative or natural medicine specialties. I have a big fat PDR for herbs and dietary supplements sitting right on my desk. There are medical schools in this country like Bastyr University that specialize in Naturopathic Medicine. The reason that supplements are not regulated like drugs are is because they are currently classified as foods, not medicine, thanks to DSHEA. That's not to say this will remain this way. There have many assaults on health freedom in recent years to overturn DSHEA and force Americans to get prescriptions for dietary supplements. However, this makes no more sense today than it did in the early 90's because once they regulate our supplements with ' safe upper limits' that would mean that they would then need to regulate what types of food we consume and how much. Check out Codex Alimentarius, WHO, European Union and how it relates to natural health and dietary supplements. Ironically, drug companies manufacture most otc vitamins and minerals. If you look at a standard PDR, One a day and Centrum are in there because technically they are synthetic non-prescription drugs, not foods. Natural whole food supplements are foods, not drugs. One of the companies that I purchase supplements from is called Innate Response located in New Hampshire that source their nutrients from raw whole foods. They must employ the same quality control and assurance (I tend to believe better) standards as pharmaceutical companies and they formulate based on the latest research.
Despite the research, always keep in mind that like the Vit. C research, one must be able to analyze the data and methodology. If a sample population in a clinical trial for Vit E were ages 60-80 and each had been previously diagnosed with heart disease or some other cardiovascular disease and the clinical findings reported that Vit. E caused cardiovascular disease, would you believe that? It's a valid question because that actually happened around 2003 and frightening reports of the dangers of Vit E blanketed the news. It's hard to believe that a clinical trial like that could even get approval...but wait! The FDA no longer approves methods ( prior to study)..they just approve the drug after reviewing the clinical trial data.

You are correct that the small nutraceutical companies struggle to pay all the fees. The big pharma companies can afford the fees and then pass that expense onto consumers while driving the small nutraceutical companies out of business.

[-] 1 points by mideast (506) 7 years ago

Yes - I sated this very poorly
"supplements are not allowed to make claims because they do not go thru tests."
I should have said "supplements are not allowed to make claims because they do not go thru FDA trials."

And yes - I agree that the FDA is not "a fair broker"

[-] 2 points by Gillian (1842) 7 years ago

There are no FDA trials anymore. The only thing the FDA provides is ' guidance' or guidelines but otherwise they don't independently research anything anymore. Nutraceuticals are indeed subjected to the same clinical trial studies as drugs and the results are published in medical journals. I think you're confusing research with regulation- the difference being that they are regulated as foods, not drugs. Foods cannot currently claim to be medicine and therefore, cannot claim to provide any medical benefit. When tart cherries were proven to be more effective against several diseases like gout and cancer in clinical trials, a drug company ( can't remember which one) appealed to the FDA which then threatened to shut down the cherry industry for advertising that cherries had health benefits. Cherries are food and regulated as such which means that foods can't compete with drugs in the market.

On October 17, 2005, the FDA banned information about cherries’ health benefits from appearing on websites. The FDA sent warning letters to 29 companies that market cherry products. In these letters, the FDA ordered the companies to stop publicizing scientific data about cherries. According to the FDA, when cherry companies disseminate this information, the cherries become unapproved drugs subject to seizure. The FDA warns that if those involved in cherry trafficking continue to inform consumers about these scientific studies, criminal prosecutions will ensue."

My gosh, they make cherries sound like meth! Cherry traffickers...hahahha Ironically, the FDA doesn't dispute the research at all. They just won't allow the research to be publicized by a food company.

Want to see loads of clinical trials on cherries? Check out the bottom of the page: :http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2006/mar2006_awsi_01.htm

I don't want to see plant-based and natural therapies regulated like drugs for the reasons that I mentioned previously. On the other hand, I want best manufacturing practices enforced and quality controlled standardization because foods are powerful medicines.

[-] 1 points by mideast (506) 7 years ago

yipes - I need to talk about what I know!

[-] 1 points by mideast (506) 7 years ago

FDA Now Censoring Consumer Free Speech on the Internet

Your "headline" is disingenuous - at best

The US Food and Drug Administration has recently issued warning letters to two different supplement companies. Here is what triggered one of them: supplement company AMARC Enterprises “liked” a Facebook customer testimonial about how their product helped “keep cancer at bay.” FDA says this means AMARC made a disease claim.

The FDA said & did nothing to censor the POSTER / CONSUMER
they warned AMARK about what AMARK did
They probably liked this post because they thought they could sneak around the law.

What if I "facebooked" or "internetted" that my smoking a pack of marlboros every day cured my lung cancer - would the FDA do anything about it - of course not!
What if the manufacturer liked my post & what if I was a marlboro employee or paid consultant

[-] 1 points by Gillian (1842) 7 years ago

Nothing misleading about this. The consumer's comment was censored and yes if you commented on a company website that your cigarettes made you have better health and actually believed that, then they could remove your comment.

[-] 1 points by mideast (506) 7 years ago

How did the FDA change or censor the original comment?
From what you posted, I understand the FDA wanted the company NOT to make a medical claim by "linking" to it
As ZD points out below, corporations may be people BY LAW but not BY FACT

[-] 1 points by Gillian (1842) 7 years ago

It becomes censorship when companies are no longer allowed to accept public comments that mention any disease. It's one thing for a company to decide to not publish my comment but for the FDA to decide that they cannot publish my comment is another issue.
The FDA has been attempting to discredit any benefit of natural supplements for several years now. The problem is that much of the scientific research is flawed and this is why we receive opposing messages all the time. We were told that antioxidants were great for us and now they are telling us they are killing us. Vitamin E, Beta Carotene were all linked to high incidents of cancer and death because the methodology was flawed. We don't hear about that though.

[-] 1 points by mideast (506) 7 years ago

It is not a matter of "accepting" a comment
As a major stockholder in "marlboro", I send them a letter saying that I have cured many cancer patients by doubling thier cigarette consumption, should "marlboro" be allowed to post that letter on their site?

I would suggest that if you have an FDA data case, post THAT information. What did the FDA say about E & who said it was wrong.

and of course, if corporations were NOT people, their money could be cut out of our regulatory process.

[-] 1 points by Gillian (1842) 7 years ago


This link may also help you to understand the flawed Vit E study results in 2004/5

[-] 1 points by Gillian (1842) 7 years ago

Whether Marlboro posts your comment on their site would depend on their rules.In the olden days, most companies would ask for permission but since so many post comments now, they bypass that with a statement regarding comments. For example, on one website that I commented on, the ' owners' used my comments in a way that I did not approve of. However, it stated clearly in small print that any comment on their site became their property and could be edited and published as they saw fit. So it's really up to the consumer to know the rules. OWS may own rights to my comments ( technically speaking).

The Vitamin E study was a farce and it's easy enough to research. Vioxx study was a farce, Paxil study was a farce and how many had to die before any warning was publicly released? Too many thousands. The FDA works has the fox guarding the hen house so in many cases, damage is already done before big pharma gets fined and a slap on the wrist. It's all about that money exchanged between the fox and hens.



[-] 2 points by Gillian (1842) 7 years ago

They don't need tongues as they have money !


[-] -2 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 7 years ago

Voting for bought out corporate politicians has some very bad effects. Its those same ones that openly accept money from the insurance, oil, agri, big pharma and banking industry that appoint these positions.

Corruption appointing corruption to monitor corruption. And then we wonder why we are in this position.

[-] 0 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 7 years ago

Monsanto's lawyer is in the FDA now. Michael Taylor.

He's the "does not have to be labeled" kingpin.

[-] 4 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 7 years ago


[-] 2 points by Gillian (1842) 7 years ago

Taylor, Monsanto's former lawyer and VP to decide what is safe and healthy for humans? Let's see, Monsanto also told us that Agent Orange/Dioxin and DDT were safe. It appears that Obama has been eating too many veggies from his Monsanto-sponsored White House garden. I wonder if Michelle points out all the healthful benefits of her GM tomatoes in her cookbook?

Did you read the article about how they are putting aspartame in children's lunches without disclosure? Of course, they want to be able to add it all our food without labeling. Aspartame=Monsanto/Searle+Donald Rumsfeld.


[-] -1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 7 years ago

Unreal. We entrust certain aspects of our lives to certain representatives, and this is what they do in return.