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Forum Post: Farmers Fight Back!!

Posted 2 years ago on April 19, 2012, 12:29 p.m. EST by shoozTroll (17632)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

It looks like the even the corporations that grow our food are getting fed up with Dow and Monsanto!

It's about time......:)

A coalition of more than 2,000 U.S. farmers and food companies said Wednesday it is taking legal action to force government regulators to analyze potential problems with proposed biotech crops and the weed-killing chemicals to be sprayed over them.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=farm-group-seeks-us-halt-on-dangerous-crop-chemicals

103 Comments

103 Comments


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[-] 3 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

It's a start. Then they need to look at antibiotics and penicillin they are feeding to cattle, hogs and chickens. And the corn syrup and other sugars they are feeding us.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28286) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

As well as all of the steroids and hormones fed to livestock. And remove artificial/synthetic dye from food.

[-] 2 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

Yep, I was not comprehensive.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (28286) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

It's a messy issue.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

I fought with the farmers in my family for years. They were always able to rationalize it to their satisfaction. I always knew I was not suited to be one myself.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (28286) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

We each have our own road and it is good that you recognized this in yourself. It does take a different kind of individual to farm.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

Well you know there is farming and then there is agribusiness. Not much in common.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (28286) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Corporate farming is not farming that is for sure. Agribusiness is another take on corporatism for the most part in my understanding - profits over people.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

Very much so. I worked in a slaughter house for Armour once upon a time. Now they are cleaner, visually, and less obviously abusive of the illegals who work there.

But they are what they are. If you want to be a vegan, tour one sometime.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (28286) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

I do not eat enough vegetables as it is but I don't think converting to all vegetables would be a good thing either. I like my animal protein. I myself could not work in a slaughter house I have had friends who did, but I could not handle that myself. We eat meat as a people and always will and I am thankful for those who can do the work. I also believe that it need not be inhumane treatment of the animals either. There are all kinds of necessary jobs that are in a sense ugly - but that does not mean that the processes used can not be the best. That is what I am looking for in all lines of work - the best conditions and tools for all concerned.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

I agree with you of course, and I admit that I did many things in the process of growing up on a farm that wasn't good for me, good for some animals, good for the foods produced etc, We do eat a lot less red meat and, I guess, less meat in general. mostly for health reasons. More fruit and vegetables and still, I had cancer less that two years ago and my wife was diagnosed two weeks ago.

But we grow up and a little civilization seeps into the cracks. A little humility and contrition makes it easier to help everyone face reality.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28286) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

I can not argue with that. The rise in cancer is very disturbing and I believe has much to do with our food chain as well as pollutants. I pound down a lot of nutritional supplements myself due to my poor veggie habits but also due to the things in our food and in our environment. Support the bodies ability to function is our best defense while trying to clean-up our food and world ( IMO ).

[-] 2 points by Odin (583) 2 years ago

The pharmaceutical industry which corrupts medical practice is a big problem in this country. Good nutrition, and excercise have been a people led revolution with the pharmas being reluctantly dragged along. As far as I can tell, the Europeans are ahead of us on that one as well.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28286) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

The science of nutrition has been co-opted by the science of drugs since the early 40's. This is starting to change but like anything that involves vast amounts of money there is a war being waged. Nutrition is starting to be recognized and supported as the drug companies keep turning out more and more horrific drugs to treat symptoms rather than causes, drugs which can be as bad in side effects or worse than what they are slated to treat.

[-] 1 points by Odin (583) 2 years ago

"Treating symptoms rather than causes," yes exactly. In the early awakening of people to the benefits of good nutrition..the pharmas completely pooh poohed the outrageous..to them notion that this was important. Now we are in phase two, where they are forced to concede that it does play a role, but only a secondary one to more and more drugs with horrific side effects especially young people who were flippantly put on Ritalin. It is a people led revolution for sure. I'm sending you an email, so look for it in the next half hour, and get back to me when you can.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28286) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Well that is another area of awareness that is opening-up in the general public and I believe it is at least partly due to Pharma and their nasty side effect drugs.

[-] 0 points by Odin (583) 2 years ago

The medical profession in the 50s and 60s remember endorsed, and promoted the use of formula over breast feeding. That is just one early example of how corrupt this field was, and continues to be.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28286) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Will do. Oh & BTW they ( pharma ) also shot themselves in the foot when they were poo pooing nutrition at the same time they were showing the importance of the botanical's in the rainforest and the necessary role they play in modern pharmacology. I always find that funny poo poo nutrition ( natural foods ) and expound on it's necessity at the same time.


[-] 2 points by Odin (1456) from Island Heights, NJ 2 minutes ago

"Treating symptoms rather than causes," yes exactly. In the early awakening of people to the benefits of good nutrition..the pharmas completely pooh poohed the outrageous..to them notion that this was important. Now we are in phase two, where they are forced to concede that it does play a role, but only a secondary one to more and more drugs with horrific side effects especially young people who were flippantly put on Ritalin. It is a people led revolution for sure. I'm sending you an email, so look for it in the next half hour, and get back to me when you can. ↥like ↧dislike permalink

[-] 2 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

But some of the supplements are suspect, as well. I was/am taking fish oil for cardio. Latest study, says no good. Every study concludes the opposite of the last one? Look at the 60 Minutes video of SUGAR.

As my Dad used to say, "I don't understand all I know about that."

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28286) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

LOL modern day vaudeville


[-] 1 points by brightonsage (1624) 1 minute ago

Never met a krill I didn't like. Some of my best friends are krills. OK, boys and krills...

Take a krill to lunch. As a minority, I can say that krill have always treated me fairly. I wouldn't be too excited if my daughter wanted to... Well, as long as they don't make me get a green card...

Sorry, just trying to project myself into a krill-centric society. ↥like ↧dislike permalink

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

Starbucks Corp said on its blog on Thursday that it will stop using a natural, government-approved coloring made from crushed beetles in its strawberry flavoring by late June, bowing to pressure from some vegetarian customers.

You are what you eat. A strawberry-beetle flavored cup of coffee.

[-] 0 points by Odin (583) 2 years ago

I could not answer under last comment. Yes, I will google that. I do know that there is a big difference between farm-raised salmon, and wild salmon though as I have two daughters in Alaska that have taught me that. Any and all salmon from Alaska is wild as farm raised salmon is illegal there. I love that smoked salmon, but I limit my intake of it because of the high sodium levels in it.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

A problem with farm raised is what is used for their food. If it is from higher levels of the food chain, it has concentrated heavy metals etc.Whether there is something more analogous to the mad cow disease problem,e.g. biological entities in the food that can carry diseases or prions etc. I don't know. I haven't researeched the literature.

[-] 0 points by Odin (583) 2 years ago

What's wrong with fish oil? I take wild salmon fish oil almost every day.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

You will have to Google it. There was a study within the last week or ten days that reported it doesn't help your heart.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28286) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Pharma does not like it because it hurts their sales of statins.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (28286) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Well ladeeda, how ever so much evolved. No wonder they get 5.00 or more for a coffee. It is not just coffee it is a life experience. Sheesh.


[-] 1 points by brightonsage (1624) 3 minutes ago

To be precise, it was rum-raisin. Hot buttered rum-raisin with a red beetle for color.

Starbucks Corp said on its blog on Thursday that it will stop using a natural, government-approved coloring made from crushed beetles in its strawberry flavoring by late June, bowing to pressure from some vegetarian customers. ↥like ↧dislike permalink

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (28286) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Here I always thought that was Rum.

Trends - Huh.


[-] 1 points by brightonsage (1624) 0 minutes ago

They know which side their coffee is buttered on. ↥like ↧dislike permalink

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

To be precise, it was rum-raisin. Hot buttered rum-raisin with a red beetle for color.

Starbucks Corp said on its blog on Thursday that it will stop using a natural, government-approved coloring made from crushed beetles in its strawberry flavoring by late June, bowing to pressure from some vegetarian customers.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (28286) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Who says the consumer has no power. Vegetarians must be coffee fiends if Starbucks is changing to please them. Hey?


[-] 1 points by brightonsage (1624) 0 minutes ago

Starbucks Corp said on its blog on Thursday that it will stop using a natural, government-approved coloring made from crushed beetles in its strawberry flavoring by late June, bowing to pressure from some vegetarian customers.

You are what you eat. A strawberry-beetle flavored cup of coffee. ↥like ↧dislike permalink

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

They know which side their coffee is buttered on.

[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

This is consumer power in its more raw and disturbing form...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Va73gytRkfE&feature=related

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (28286) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

It is insane is it not? Yes I believe that it is the Baleen or Blue whale that feeds on the krill along our west coast. I am not fully up to speed on the krill population, I only know that it is another resource that can not be allowed to be abused. Hopefully the krill used to supply omega 3 fatty acids are farmed and not caught. Often times you can get a product statement of origin on this type of thing for just those types of concerns. I believe that our west coast seal population also relies on krill.


[-] 1 points by brightonsage (1624) 0 minutes ago

The other point re fish oil is that some tout krill based oil, then you hear that we have depleted 40% of the krill in the ocean and the consequences of that...? And nobody fights for krill. They fight to protect whales which eat what ? I'm confused. What day is it? ↥like ↧dislike permalink

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

Never met a krill I didn't like. Some of my best friends are krills. OK, boys and krills...

Take a krill to lunch. As a minority, I can say that krill have always treated me fairly. I wouldn't be too excited if my daughter wanted to... Well, as long as they don't make me get a green card...

This is a little off the topic but it is too good: Starbucks Corp said on its blog on Thursday that it will stop using a natural, government-approved coloring made from crushed beetles in its strawberry flavoring by late June, bowing to pressure from some vegetarian customers.

Sorry, just trying to project myself into a krill-centric society.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (28286) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

This is very true. I look for the all natural supplements and information from nutritionists Dr.s who have done studies and published findings in accepted journals. I look for their take on different vitamins minerals etc. etc. and their work I tend to trust over the naysayers as the naysayers rarely ( not never but rarely ) have any thing to back them up. I also take fish oil on a daily basis. The only thing that ever concerns me about such a product is what might have gotten into the fish prior to its getting into me. Pollution so prevalent in our world.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

The other point re fish oil is that some tout krill based oil, then you hear that we have depleted 40% of the krill in the ocean and the consequences of that...? And nobody fights for krill. They fight to protect whales which eat what ? I'm confused. What day is it?

[-] 0 points by Odin (583) 2 years ago

Had to reply here. Yes farm raised salmon also has the pink dye which is basically the same as what people use (it may be banned now) for their skin so it looks tan. The fish food also has a lot of anti-biotics in it, and the other problem is the concentrated area that they are raised in where since it is usually close to land, they get a lot of the nutrient run-off. Farm fishing will be a way of life though due to the depleted fish population, and or increased demand. I believe they are starting to raise these fish further out to sea to cut down on some of the detriments of farm raised fish.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

Every upside has it's down side.

[-] 2 points by hercules1 (7) 2 years ago

Yes. Yes. YES! Monsanto is the poster child for "evil". In case anyone doesn't know here's what they've done: bioengeneered sterile seed (corn, barley, wheat, etc) to work with thier own herbicide (Round-up); that is, Monsantos' herbicide will kill anything EXCEPT its own bioengineered crops! That is utterly the most disgusting thing I have ever heard! AND IT"S OK WITH THE FDA!!!!!

Yes, folks. We can thank our esteemed know-it-all Supreme Court for that when they ruled it's ok to patent life! Actually, THAT is the most disgusting thing I have ever heard.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

it is difficult to get seeds that produce non sterile pants by design to keep control of the seed business

but engendered genetically herbicide seems far fetched

[-] 2 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

Today, Republic Report uncovered that in March, Congressman Tim Holden introduced a bill to allow industrial farmers to dump animal waste into the Chesapeake Bay. He then immediately received $16,000 in reelection campaign contributions from the National Turkey Federation, the National Chicken Council, Dean Foods, and other industrial farming polluters.

The more things stay the same, the less they change.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

From my understanding, they've turned what was once the most productive bay in the World into a dump already.

Don't worry the Atlantic will take care of it in few hundred years........if they don't dump anything else in it.

Nothing will stop them, until it affects bay front property values.

What ever happened to this idea?

Turkey guts to #2 crude.

http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/archive/index.php/t-22526.html

[-] 3 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

Only a few hundred years, of course that ignores the cumulative effect of several other polutents. The last I knew the turkeys to oil was being done at a Tyson's plant in Arkansas.

Not on the subject but what happened to the coal to gasoline tech that the Germans started in WW-II? Better answer than tar sands through the non existent pipe line? Found it:

The Adams Fork Energy project will convert regional coal into premium-grade gasoline, producing 18,000 barrels per day (756,000 gallons US, 2.86 million liters). When fully developed, the Adams Fork project will be the largest coal-to-gasoline project in the world, according to Adam Victor, President and CEO of TransGas Development Systems.

The project team has been issued a permit to construct by the West Virginia Department of Environmental Protection and plans to begin work on the site during the second quarter of 2011.

The plant will have several process components. First, coal is gasified to produce synthesis gas, using Uhde PRENFLO PDQ gasifiers. The synthesis gas will then be cleaned to remove impurities, turning most into marketable byproducts. Next, the synthesis gas will be converted into methanol, which in turn will be converted into gasoline utilizing ExxonMobil Research and Engineering Company’s (EMRE) MTG process. During the operation of the integrated facility, air emissions are expected to be so low that it will qualify as a minor source under US law.

Now if we don't kill too many miners getting the coal??

[-] 0 points by Odin (583) 2 years ago

I couldn't find your last comment to me after I lost it. I know exactly what 18,000 barrrels of oil looks like, as many of the loads i carried on the barge I worked on were for that amount. 1barrel=42 gls.

[-] 2 points by Nevada1 (4648) 2 years ago

Hi shooz, Good post. Best Regards

[-] 2 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

Starbucks Corp said on its blog on Thursday that it will stop using a natural, government-approved coloring made from crushed beetles in its strawberry flavoring by late June, bowing to pressure from some vegetarian customers.

You are what you eat.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

What? No more ladybug lattes??

I never go there anyway........I get my coffee from a small local coffee cafe.

Where did they get the bugs from?

[-] 2 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

I don't know. They didn't have green cards.

I make my own coffee, in a Cheney-Chinese aggressive drip waterboard coffee maker. You can listen to my calls, you can read my emails, just don't bug my coffee.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (7031) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

I can understand loving everything, but ladybug farmers got to eat too, and all in all not a lot of big guys doing that, anyway, people do raise them, they're handy. For the record though they shouldn't say it's one thing if it's another.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

Where did all of the blank space come from. A guy could get agoraphobia, you know? I found out the come from Mexico and some South American countries. Apparently the bugs have a weak lobby.

I would not be as concerned about GM corn if they didn't put it in every single thing.

When I was a kid I was bathed regularly with DDT, 24D, the equivalent of Agent Orange, dust, smoke lead paint, mercury and a number of other delightful chemicals and I am amazed that out of more than 20 thousand chemicals were are monitoring and regulating 80. Have we proved that the other 19,000 + are safe? NOOOOO! We haven't tested any of them.

Honestly once it is converted to Fructose or Glucose youy don't have to worry about the genetic aspect. It is poison and specifically nourishes cancer, so that should be the real concern. That product is no worse than regular corn sugar, But it isn't any better either. More than any other product, including tobacco, corn is killing us.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (7031) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

must be talking about the Reich post, long link jumped it down there, wish I could do a poster or something.

On the ladybugs guess I was thinking about the live ones, not the stuff Starbucks uses.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

When you use lady bugs how to o get rid of the little black spots? Polka dot dye? My wife's favorite color is plaid.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (7031) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

actually the ladybugs are nature pestdcide, the are the loins of the bug world, organic framing, pain in the butt really, but you use anything these days, nobody'll tell you what's in it, which brings us back to lattes

[-] 2 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

Yeah, I know ladybugs are bought by the pound to attack their cousins. I have even had them bite me. Me, can you believe it? Everything has to have a down side, I guess.

My coffee would be a little better with a shot of "Who shot John", in it. But then you just get to feeling sorry for yourself.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (7031) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

snakes, scorpins and ladybugs, just like republicans, can't falut them for what they are I guess

[-] 2 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

Every living thing has its nature, they say. BTW I heard there is a study that shows that twins rarely die of the same cause? Interesting, if true.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (7031) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

I wonder if it was restricted to identical twins. That’s a small group, and would make a difference as fraternal would be either astrology or chance, a bit simplified I mean they could share a lot in common, I would be surprised if there were not a correlation of deaths among siblings of all types.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

I believe it was, so it would eliminate the genetic variation factor. Fraternal twins would have genetic variation similar to siblings. I t5hink this might the the actual study.

http://www.benbest.com/lifeext/longgene.html "A long-term study of twins in Denmark showed that when one fraternal twin had a fatal stroke, there was a 10% chance that the other fraternal twin would die of stroke. But for identical twins there was an 18% chance that the second twin would also die of a stroke [STROKE; Bak,S; 33(3):769-774 (2002)]. The fact that identical twins (who have exactly the same genes) would be nearly twice as likely to have a stroke as fraternal twins (who are no closer genetically than any brother or sister) indicates that heredity does play a role in the likelihood of having a stroke. Nonetheless, the fact that when one of two genetically identical twins has a stoke that there is a less than 20% chance that the second genetically identical twin will have a stroke indicates that at least 80% of the chance of having a stroke is due to environmental (lifestyle) factors.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (7031) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Haven't read the threads, offhand I would say there is some considerable evidence that genetics plays a role in mental processes, how much exactly I do not know even if there are studies, this sort of work has been radicalized and connected to unrelated genes responsible for pigment and such nonsense.

[-] 2 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

While interesting, I don't know that it should have any influence on our conduct. It gets us into stereotypes. We try to challenge "bad" stereo types and reinforce "good" ones. I think that it is clear that stereotyping is a part of human nature and that it has served us both well and badly in our history and can't be universally condemned or applauded. Recognizing it, isn't a basis for judgement, only the actions that accompany it should be judged.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (7031) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

offhand it's actually about what I would expect, but I do have just a bit of traininfg in the field

[-] 2 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

Your insight is probably better than most. Re Repelicans. If it isn't their nature, I can blame them. Since you know something about this, there are these studies that have been mentioned here that relate genetic predisposition to fears and to decisions made by people who are (naturally) more fearful.

I read a book "Pictures of the Mind" which correlates brain activity of areas of the brain to certain types of decision making which seems to support this conclusion. Anything you want to say about this subject? Some of the studies here were relating it to the Conservative rejection of science.

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

This is a really positive sign of change, thanks.

[-] 1 points by elf3 (2501) 2 years ago

Film >>>> The Future OF Food<<<<<<

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

I always hate to correct you shooz, but it should be "alleged food".I have family that are on the endangered species list. Small independent farmers.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

I'll try and find more info, if any becomes available, but as I read it, they are suing to assure that the crop/ herbicide system doesn't affect other crops and farms. They are asking the FDA and USDA to do their job.

At the very least, they are suing for better regulation of Dow and Monsanto, and if they're successful, that has to be good thing.

[-] 3 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

It is a pain in the butt to know that a thin veneer of regulation is all that is standing between us and lot of ugly consequences, only to have, underfunded and sometime incompetent repelican regulators screw it up and give other repelicans a rationale to do away with regulation in general.

I say repelican regulators because 40% of Bush appointees and hires whose only qualification was "loyalty to Bush and the cause" burrowed in, as they call it, and are now protected by civil service in jobs that they believe shouldn't exist. As a consequence they, a) steal all they can, b) use their position to benefit cohorts on the outside, c) screw up to make the process look bad.

Sorry to cry on your shoulder shooz, but I have had a bad day.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

It's OK bright, any time you like. You're honesty is refreshing. Especially compared to troll juggling.........................:)

I get where you're coming from.

At least the (R)epelican'ts can't blame this call for better regulation on us beleaguered liberals.

This time it's other corporations, and hey, I do buy RedGold tomatoes from time to time, so it's nice to know they willing to sue Monsanto.

[Deleted]

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

I'm sorry to hear that. For your own sake, say no more.

Don't lay this out for the trolls ............

Trust me, I understand. I hope things go better than you can hope.

[-] 1 points by Odin (583) 2 years ago

Never would have guessed Kansas. I think my ex might have some empathy for your sisters, as she knows what it is like to be married to a hard-headed Swede. "You can tell a Swede, but you can't tell him anything."...cause he already knows it all."Ten thousand Norwegians were chased through the weeds by one Swede, and he had a broken leg to boot." I broke in on the boats with two Norwegian brothers, one week with one brother, and one week with the other. They were very fair, but very tough. From day one, it was made clear, you either did your job, or you got the fuck off the boat, and they were friends of my family too. :-) Whatever they did...they did 'hard'...worked hard...partyed hard. After four years of that, I went to work on another boat, and I thought I was on a vacation! lol They had prepared me well, and I will be forever grateful to them for having done so. They are both gone now, but I look in on the one guy's elderly wife, and help her.

[-] 2 points by elf3 (2501) 2 years ago

Most of the people in the FDA were a part of Monsanto - many of the people in our government were (including Donald Rumsfeld, for example) Their reach goes far and wide. It is the FDA who should be sued. They are not there to protect us they are there to make the public feel as if they are and to prevent the law from actually stepping in and arresting them for the things they do. Instead the FDA pretends to discipline them, meanwhile they are staffed by Monsanto (thanks to dirty politicians) and no one gets arrested or prosecuted. Well, unless you are a small farmer whose field was invaded by their seed - Monsanto will take them to court and has already set that precedent and won. Justice is bought and paid for. So aren't human lives. "Well it's just a little cancer - never hurt anyone and sure helps out our friends in big-pharma - our stocks are in cancer drugs right ? Oh yes the same sell out scientist are helping them patent human genes. Right Right - all is right with the world."

[-] 1 points by Odin (583) 2 years ago

I remember meeting two farmers at Zuccotti Park last November. I couldn't believe at the time they were from the Mid-West somewhere.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

The scope of concern is pervasive, for sure.

[-] 0 points by Odin (583) 2 years ago

I remember talking to a friend from Maine several years ago. I was telling him how on the Jersey Shore where I live now...anyone that lives south of you is regarded as a 'clam-digger',or less sophisticated. He said that same dynamic is true in Maine, but there it is east. That true? That's OK though as we have several names for anyone that is north of us. lol :-)

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

I lived in New Jersey once upon a time and there was a lot of class struggle by geography, as I recall.

[-] 0 points by Odin (583) 2 years ago

Still is, and it is very corrupt. A typical Jerseyite will agree with you on all the criticisms of it you may have. Just don't dare run down Bruce Springsteen, the best sandy beaches (minus all the crap that preceeds them), or Jersey tomatoes, which you may remember are the best.:-)

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

And New Jersey clam chowder and horses and... I was In Morris Plains and Ocean Township. New Jersey ancestor (Bockoven Farm in Mendham), was a Captain in Revolution, but I didn't know it when I lived there.

Yes, there was crime there. Used to eat in the San Remo restaurant in East Orange, where the good fellas and the politicians met under the flag of truce.

[-] 0 points by Odin (583) 2 years ago

Just lost my comment, so I will start over. That's cool about your ancestor, Bockhoven. Yes Jersey/Manhattan clam chowder is healthier, but I do yearn for that wonderful New England clam chowder once in a while. That area around Mendham is very near the Pine Barrens which has one of the largest underground acquifers in the east. The US Congress made a special designation for the Pines to protect it from over-developement because of the acquifer. Can't remember exactly what it is called. There are still many German surnames in the Pines because many of the original settlers were Hessian soldiers who desserted their ranks in Trenton and Philly. Some friends in New Egypt run an organization called Rerun, which takes in race horses that are no longer competitive, and finds homes for them. NJ has more horses per square mile than any other state in the country. While serving in th Army Corp. of Engineers George Meade designed and built Barnegat Lighthouse which is a beauty. Of course, he went on to fame or infamy, considering all the lives lost at The Battle of Gettysburg, as General Meade. I try to stay out of the Oranges, but we do have our share of good fellas down here, I'm sure. My NJ history lesson is complete. No wait...was it you I told, dunno... anyway my great, great, uncle Timothy Webster from Princeton NJ gained fame in the Civil War as a spy, and a Pinkerton police before that. The South caught up with him though, and hung him in Richmond..OK, now done.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

Much further back in another branch, an ancestor married a sister of Elder Brewster, Plymouth, back in Scrooby, England, early 1600's.

General Adelbert Ames, (youngest Union General, was at Gettysburg, (he was a cousin of an ancestor) and two uncles of ancestors were there, as well.

I was in NJ from 1971-1981. It has not changed a lot, when I was there three years ago. Politics there was colorful and still is, I understand. Christie is a glistening example. You may have some interesting repercussions of his cancellation of the train project?

[-] 0 points by Odin (583) 2 years ago

Wow..the 1600's that's going back. Christie is the personification of a Jersey attitude. The tunnel project would have brought us into the 21st century, and provided a lot of jobs. The problem here as in many other states is the democrats are bad too. I left NJ in 1976, and lived, and raised three daughters in Vermont. None of them can understand my living in NJ now. There were some ancestors in Rhode Island before my g, g, great grandfather emigrated here in 1835 from England, but I don't know much more, yet anyway. I have been catching up on my Dad's side of the family in the past year or two. He is from Sweden, and last year my sister, one of my daughters, and I went there and celebrated the 80th anniversary of him sailing over here for the first time on a sailor's training ship, The Chapman. That sailing ship is tied up in Stockholm harbor. It is beautiful, and is a youth hostel today. We stayed over-night on it which was really cool. Did you say you were a blacksmith?

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

Had friend with a "fish camp" house on Long Point. Love it.

I was in Stockholm two summers ago, That is a cool ship, but then there is the Vasa. I don't know where you got blacksmith, but as a kid I learned to weld and use machine tools repairing farm equipment. Later I made parts for Bigsby guitar tail pieces, part time for another engineer I worked with.

I guess I have done and been involved with so many things that there aren't many political perspectives I can't appreciate or identify with to some degree. But in most cases taking a position to its logical extreme is informative. Of course that is a debating technique that others will use against you.

[-] 0 points by Odin (583) 2 years ago

Found it. I could never imagine living far from the sea again.When we lived in VT, I would travel back and forth every two weeks to go to work on the boats. I enjoyed both lives, but it does take a toll on marriages. I did make it to twenty years married, and happily so for most of them. Most importantly now, we are friends who trust each other. The Chapman is a beauty and has a neat history. Its maiden voyage in the late in 1888-1889 was from Dublin to Portland OR, and at some point it picked up survivors of a shipwreck near Cape Horn. The ship was named after a famous ship's architect and several countries wanted his services, as he was that good. We took our picture up on the bow mostly near the capstain where I had a picture of my Dad in 1931 at 18-19 years old. He turned 19 on that voyage. Also had his graduation cert, and a silver medallion that commemorated that voyage. The Vasa, yes we went there as well. I remember going there 40 years ago too. Sinking on its maiden voyage...not good. Guitars...you know about Sitka spruce then. I saw Roy Buchanan one night in Austin. That guy could play, and i later learned that he was regarded as a guitar player's----guitar player. he had a lot of inner demons though so he never achieved national fame. Someone here said he was a blacksmith, thought it was you. My good friend in Sweden is third generation family owned black smith/steel worker and has a thriving business.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

Summer before last my grandson (my wife and I raised) spent a week on the three sticker, Mary Day out of Camden Maine. One branch of my family went to Maine. There was an old five sticker from there named the General Ames which was named for the Civil War General, that was at Gettysburg.

Can't do much sailing here, but I can look at fourteeners of the Rockies every morning as I get my newspapers from the driveway. Something to be said for that.

I picked up on your name, Where I grew up the closest town was named Norway and my rural mail carrier came from one called Scandia. Yes, they were Scandinavian communities.Guess what state?

[-] 1 points by Odin (583) 2 years ago

Had to think what you meant by sticker for a minute. Seaman are famous for purposely referring to heavy equipment in a, for lack of a better word,'smaller way'. For instance big two inch diameter cables are called wires. Guess what state...hmmm? My first guess would be Minneso-TA'-because it is closer. Many Scandinavians moved there probably because the many lakes reminded them of Sweden in particular. Next guess would be North Dakota. My daughter got out of a speeding ticket in S. Dakota because she started talking to the cop who was from MN about their shared Scandinavian heritage! My final guess would be Alaska, and if it were Alaska...it would probably be on the South East Coast, maybe the town of Petersburg. There are tons of Norwegians on that coast, but very few Swedes. There are also many Minnesotans/Scandinavians in the Matunuska Valley as many of them went up there in the mid 30s to farm, under Roosevelt's New Deal. They came from the midwest... Scandinavians it seems got preferrential treatment.. and were each given 40 acres of land if they settled there. Every year they celebrate Colony Day, the church, Lutheran of course has a huge great free barbecue, and this year I will be there again...in fact i planned it that way... to help them celebrate as I have two daughters, and a granddaughter living up there. They have a parade every year, and last year they had some of the original settlers who were kids in the 30s riding in shiny convertibles. Amazing...I hope to see some of those old-timers this year too.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

Masts are pretty big sticks, to be sure.

The state is Kansas. Two of my sisters married Swedes. And they were Lutherans. A Hedstrom and a Stensaas.

http://www.epodunk.com/cgi-bin/genInfo.php?locIndex=266585 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scandia,_Kansas

There were a lot of ethnic communities there. Czeck's, Slavs, French, Scots, Germans, Russians, Italians, in Nicodemus, blacks settled after the Civil War. They never got the 40 acres and a mule they were promised so the came west and started a community and a town. http://www.nps.gov/nico/index.htm

[-] 1 points by nomdeguerre (1775) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

We need to reach out to farmers in every way.

In Michigan the freaks have defined non-factory pigs as feral. Amazing. Factory farms are attacking small farmers following sustainable practices and raising heritage breeds. The MI government fully supports the corpoRATs.

http://foodfreedomgroup.com/2012/04/01/michigan-ag-draws-guns-at-pig-banning-meeting-with-farmers/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=michigan-ag-draws-guns-at-pig-banning-meeting-with-farmers

http://www.change.org/petitions/governor-state-of-michigan-stop-the-imminent-slaughter-of-heritage-pigs-on-small-farms-in-michigan

[-] 3 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

There's a thread on this and it isn't what you describe.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/us-government-is-off-its-rails-killing-farmers-pig/

[-] 1 points by nomdeguerre (1775) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

Ah, so you're one of them.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

You're one of them, I'm me............:)

[-] 1 points by JadedGem (895) 2 years ago

They are just protesting the new defoliation spray. They still want to buy and use bio seeds. They have not said they would stop using their seed.

[-] 2 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

Isn't it called Agent Orange? What could possible be wrong with that?

[-] 0 points by DanielBarton (1345) 2 years ago

Even though i have no problem with genetically altered crops but i do want them to all be family owned and run. I do think that the farmers should be farmers and not a man in a suit down town. Good article

[-] 2 points by elf3 (2501) 2 years ago

Why don't you have problems with them?- do you know how the process is done? Please watch The Future of Food documentary on this very important issue...gmo crops are altered so that man made molecules like plastics and pharmaceuticals actually become part of the gene structure of the plant. They are able to modify them with a "suicide" gene that prevents the plant from producing any seeds thus forcing farmers to re-buy year after year. No one knows yet how they react in the human body because it has not been studied nor are they labelled - if you happen to be allergic - they can cause anaphylactic shock. Plants have a natural cell well that acts as their immune system - so to get these new genes past the structure they must shoot gold particles into the plant, irradiate it in, or use a virus like e-coli. The genes are unstable and since our bodies use the plant cells and genes to make new cells in our own bodies they can actually corrupt and invade our own cells because they aren't very stable being that they are man made and may not have been meant to be combined and are proven to cause cancer which is why Europe and Canada have banned most GMO. Look up round up ready corn - where the pesticide is now a part of the plant inside it's genetic structure. People think somone just crossbread a tomato. I would go so far as to say they are experimenting with viruses that they don't know will do to the public. But they are viruses designed to get past immune structures - scary stuff. This may also be the source of the ecoli outbreaks. But they refuse to label because it traces liability, and because it sets them up as a monopoly. They are actually suing farmers whose plants contain their cell markers for not having paid for seed even though seed blows in the wind from large farm fields into their own. This is the food industrial complex and it goes right into your body - Autism anyone? Maybe they started using mercury to get the genes in instead of gold probably cheaper - who cares about the kids their just a casualty of profit. Aside from all of this creating only one type of plant limits hardiness against disease. Nature likes bio-diversity for a reason. If a virus can kill one crop another might survive. But when all you have is corn,soy, and potato in only one variety it could lead to plant disease and mass-famine.

[-] 1 points by Spade2 (478) 2 years ago

The technology is not the problem, it's the misuse of it. We simply need improved regulations.

[-] 0 points by DanielBarton (1345) 2 years ago

well its my choice to eat it and i will eat it. If people want to eat organic food good for them. I know people who are doing this genetic research on these plants. Most of them are changing the climate that they can grow in so that wheat can grown in desert climate. We must have genetically altered crops to feed the world but we must also have all natural ones as well.

pesticides are bad and unless they find a way to wash the effects off the plant i would like them to use them less.

good talk on this

http://blog.ted.com/2010/03/17/qa_with_chef_da/

[-] 0 points by XenuLives (1645) from Charlotte, NC 2 years ago

If you want to boycott these mega farms, see if there is a flea market nearby. There are usually fruit & vegetable stands with goods from local independent farms, and the prices tend to be lower than at the grocery stores too. If you know a bit of Spanish you might even get a deal. Ditto for farmers' markets.

[-] 2 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

I live where much produce is grown. The best local stuff at the cheapest prices is in a Kroger owned store. They have a buy-local policy where they can. Life is sure complicated. Of course I wake up to a crop duster flying about 300 feet over my house several times a summer. I have a willful ignorance about what drifts down on my house and yard. But the airshow is kind of neat, the first few times.

[-] 1 points by JadedGem (895) 2 years ago

Here, they put the prices on everything in English. Its pick it up and pay, no Spanish required.

[-] -1 points by MikeInOhio (13) 2 years ago

Where do people come up with this stuff? You can buy a lifetime's worth of open-pollinated vegetable seed for $30. Is Dow going to force you to eat their cucumber?

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

The check hasn't cleared yet, that's quite obvious.

This is so far off point, it doesn't matter if it's correct or not.

[-] -1 points by MikeInOhio (13) 2 years ago

I know Obama will save us!

[-] 2 points by elf3 (2501) 2 years ago

Corn, Wheat, Soy - staple foods (they are only starting with these) Google Round up Ready Seed if you don't believe - it's also it is the court precedent you have to worry about, because there is where it begins.

[-] -1 points by MikeInOhio (13) 2 years ago

I'm in the business, bro. Don't you think people will prefer non-GMO vegetables to Dow/Monsanto? Don't you think there will be great demand for non-GMO? I have a hunch that a farmer or two has already figured that out.