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Forum Post: Family Food Gardens... This is the Solution

Posted 3 years ago on Oct. 19, 2011, 7:33 p.m. EST by FamilyFoodGardens (240)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

edit: There has been some progress in Russia with legislation being developed for "family estates": http://translate.google.com/translate?depth=1&hl=en&prev=/search%3Fq%3Danastasia.ru%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3D2O9%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-GB:official%26prmd%3Divns&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=ru&twu=1&u=http://zarodinu-zaputina.ru/index.php/component/jdownloads/finish/18/134%3FItemid%3D0


Hi,

There is a very simple, effective solution that solves so many problems in one go.

To understand the solution you need to do research because great efforts have been made to distort reality.

I can help by providing some resources.

There are only certain things that actually matter:

Fresh food, pure water, a living environment, and healthy relationships.

Water is a key issue. See: Water, The Great Mystery: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3ZUe54fVHI Blue Gold http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLp1ZnjsIXc Tapped http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/tapped/

The best food is organic and home grown. Most health problems are related to poor diet, poor water and lack of excercise.

Food grown in your garden is the most healthful because of your loving relationship with the plants.

Biodiverse systems are more productive. More productive = real wealth which is Fresh food, pure water, a living environment, and healthy relationships. http://permaculture.org.au/2008/09/23/biodiverse-systems-are-more-productive/

When you plant a large garden it means you can stop supporting evil corporations like Monsanto who are destroying the world. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YH4OwBYDQe8

When you let go of materialism you can stop buying things from destructive companies.

With your own garden you can legally stop paying taxes by simply by not earning enough money if your government is involved with destructive activities such as war.

By electing politicians who also have a family food garden you can make sure you elect people who do not care about money.

The local government is the most important. http://www.spaceoflovemagazine.com/images/SOL_10_pages40_41.pdf

For more information check out http://www.throughthegreendoor.com The ringing cedars books explain everything. You can start by looking on google books: http://www.google.com/search?q=ringing+cedars&btnG=Search+Books&tbm=bks&tbo=1

There is also a petition for family food gardens: http://www.petitiononline.com/SoLMag/petition.html

There is also a lot of money to be made!

Sepp Holzer - Farming with Nature (Part 1) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kl9rkXifxrw&feature=related

"his motto: "minimum work, maximum effect." Today his domain is a self-sufficient, self-developing system. I cannot parade the amount of his annual income without his consent, but, believe me, it is impressive, as is the general value of his entire domain. He lives off the sale of saplings, plant seeds, fish, crawfish, mushrooms, nuts, fruits, berries, and vegetables, and now seminars as well. What's more he does not trouble himself with gathering the harvest. On the other hand, there are enough people willing to gather wholesome, ecologically pure crops, and in doing so to pay 18 to 20 times more for the products than in the usual commercial network." http://www.krameterhof.at/en/index.php?id=rueckblick

Money and jobs are not important!

Fresh food, pure water, a living environment, and healthy relationships are important.

So if you have more money than you need you can buy land for your friends and family and help them set up family food gardens which help solve the problem.

If you have no money you can ask friends and family to help you or you can save up or you can find a way. Where there is a will there is a way.

We can turn our planet into a beautiful paradise of abundance with Fresh food, pure water, a living environment, and healthy relationships.

Take back your motherland!

What do you think? Everyone jump in and add your views. Lets make this the number one thread with lots of info about real solutions. Bookmark this page.

175 Comments

175 Comments


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[-] 2 points by Idaltu (662) 3 years ago

I wish I could grow a pork steak in a garden...damn I hate vegetables.

[-] 1 points by crone (8) 3 years ago

Vegetables can be traded for other things; that would leave you more $$ to buy pork steak.

[-] 1 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 3 years ago

Hi Idaltu, If you have a big garden like 2.5 acres you could probably have some pigs. I am sure they would have a much better life than in one of those unacceptable factory farms and pigs are great at digging and love eating acorns.

[-] 1 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 2 years ago

Lots of great info in this thread.

[-] 1 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 2 years ago

Everything is OK at The Occupy LSX Gathering http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40aXK6NdODM&feature=player_embedded

[-] 1 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 2 years ago

20 bad things the US leads the WORLD in!!!

1 The United States has the highest incarceration rate in the world and the largest total prison population on the entire globe.

2 According to NationMaster.com, the United States has the highest percentage of obese people in the world.

3 The United States has the highest divorce rate on the globe by a wide margin.

4 The United States is tied with the U.K. for the most hours of television watched per person each week.

5 The United States has the highest rate of illegal drug use on the entire planet.

6 There are more car thefts in the United States each year than anywhere else in the world by far.

7 There are more reported rapes in the United States each year than anywhere else in the world.

8 There are more reported murders in the United States each year than anywhere else in the world.

9 There are more total crimes in the United States each year than anywhere else in the world.

10 The United States also has more police officers than anywhere else in the world.

Rest of the list on: http://www.flipthepyramid.com/index.php/entry/20-not-so-good-categories-that-the-united-states-leads-the-world-in

[-] 1 points by 99percenteconomy (4) 2 years ago

Great posts, FamilyFoodGardens! Would you be interested in writing a guest post for my blog on how growing your own food can be a political statement?

Thanks for your consideration!

http://www.the99percenteconomy.com/about/guest-post/

[-] 1 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 2 years ago

Attack or evade? Defense Against the Psychopath (Full length Version) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgGyvxqYSbE&feature=player_embedded

[-] 1 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 2 years ago

Attack or evade? Defense Against the Psychopath (Full length Version) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgGyvxqYSbE&feature=player_embedded

[-] 1 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 2 years ago

The question for many powerful people is are they really psycopaths or is it time to wake up and act in ways that demonstrate they are sane.

[-] 1 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 2 years ago

"Occupy" Movement Rolls to Rio In Rio the movement has met with no opposition from the police, who have apparently gotten used to the presence of the demonstrators in the square.

Twenty-seven-year-old Krishna Pada told IPS that the movement's weapon of protest is poetry. "We are making poetry with our actions and our words. We are dedicated to self-improvement, and what matters is what each of us can contribute. The world that is controlled by money does not represent us," he said.

Wander Ferreira, a 28-year-old philosophy student, joined the sustainability group and looks after neglected flowerbeds in the city centre.

"There are many neglected corners of the city centre that we are fixing up, or converting into urban vegetable gardens to grow our own food. It's very gratifying work; this is a unique experience in my life, and in all our lives," he said. http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=105722

[-] 1 points by joshuab (3) from Boone, IA 2 years ago

Monsanto should be the poster child for the OWS movement. Is there any other corporation on the planet with more stones that these guys. Their patented pollen infects your plant and now you're infringing on their patent. Then their zerg of patent investigators run around to any farmer adjacent to a monsanto farm to make sure you arent keeping any seed. great stuff there

farmers are spending hundreds of thousands of dollars trying to fight this pollen patent crap. My solution is to require all monsanto crops be equiped with a rubber. So that they stop spreading the monsanto disease.

[-] 1 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 2 years ago

Yes or perhaps the people involved should all have a glass of roundup.

[-] 1 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 2 years ago

The Man who planted Trees http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ampqPdTV_z0

[-] 1 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 2 years ago

It Takes an...Ecovillage to Raise an Orphan http://www.spaceoflovemagazine.com/article_7_3.htm

[-] 1 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 2 years ago

Here is one list of bee-friendly plants. The list could probably be much, much longer! http://www.thedailygreen.com/going-green/tips/bee-friendly-plants

[-] 1 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 2 years ago

Charming Hospital Sows Inspiration http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10261/1088410-47.stm

[-] 1 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 2 years ago

Decentralization in first Total Organic State http://www.pawan-chamling.org/newsnevent/villagespech.html

[-] 1 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 2 years ago

Organic Gardens Feeding People; Argentina to Haiti http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=53257

[-] 1 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 2 years ago

America's War on Food Not Bombs http://www.countercurrents.org/lendman091010.htm

[-] 1 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 2 years ago

Ecuadorian Capital Promotes Urban Farming http://www.laht.com/article.asp?ArticleId=374141&CategoryId=14089

[-] 1 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 2 years ago

Jesus Christ: “Grow your own food.” http://bayviewcompass.com/archives/5751

[-] 1 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 2 years ago

Smart governments grow food using public spaces http://www.naturalnews.com/030476_local_food_gardens.html

[-] 1 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 2 years ago

The Afghan War: Spreading Democracy (and Heroin) http://thehive.modbee.com/node/22370

[-] 1 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 2 years ago

“Wish List for Terrorists” or “Covet thy Neighbor”

"In researching this cable release, the pictures changes from a “Wish List” for terrorist targets and looks more like a “shopping list” for key resources in other countries by the US Government." http://operationleakspin.org/%E2%80%9Cwish-list-for-terrorists%E2%80%9D-or-%E2%80%9Ccovet-thy-neighbor%E2%80%9D

[-] 1 points by Markmad (323) 2 years ago

Brilliant resolution; go back to basics! We do not need to consume ferociously as seeing on TV. There are many simple alternatives we all can implement with minimum effort. I already did switch my account to a credit union and did start my own garden. Get rid of most bogus technology that only stork money from you in subscriptions. Great start FFG.

[-] 1 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 2 years ago

Thanks:)

[-] 1 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 2 years ago

The USDA’s Organic Deception http://farmwars.info/?p=4913

[-] 1 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 2 years ago

Govt advocates organic cultivation http://www.dailynews.lk/2011/01/08/news50.asp

[-] 1 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 2 years ago

"Based on the 72-hour Permaculture Design Certificate Course as devised by Bill Mollison, join Geoff Lawton as he takes you into the world of Permaculture Design and introduces you to a new way of looking at the world. Learn how to apply your design skills by observing, analyzing and harmonizing with the patterns of Nature. Discover the theory and then see the examples in action in this unique video. Essential information for anyone interested in learning more about Permaculture and how they can apply it in their daily lives to create sustainable abundance" http://dotsub.com/view/b3997f3e-8074-4e3b-918b-b61465375427

[-] 1 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 2 years ago

Underground History of American Education - John Taylor Gatto http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/chapters/index.htm

[-] 1 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 2 years ago

This story from the ringing cedars series is very relevent to unschooling. It is about how the energy of love inspired one young girl to learn. I think this gives a great deal of insight into a very good education system where travelling elders would visit a settlement and offer classes that could be voluntarily attended. The young girls grandmother helped her to realise that she could capture the heart of her intended by learning and bettering herself and in the end she married her intended in the most amazing home wedding. If you are interested you will get a lot more out of this by printing it out or buying a copy as a peaceful and natural setting is important when reading this material. http://books.google.com/books?id=96RtlHk0CJIC&pg=PA101#v=onepage&q&f=false

[-] 1 points by cheeseus (109) 2 years ago

With liberty it's a great idea. However, we have do-gooders who demand more government.

Try to plant a garden. Code enforcement will give you a citation. Try to water it from your own well. A ticket. The land you grow it on? Don't pay the property tax extortion and government steals it.

Think about this when you guys come up with solutions which involve more government. You think you are doing good things but are really creating a bigger monster....

[-] 1 points by jomojo (562) 2 years ago

The famliy farm for profit is a business. I think barter is still tax free. We'll be lucky if the organic laws and the freedom to sell at farmer's markets don't get repealed. I'm impressed with the growth of the organic sales, they could double in sales and price and it would still be a struggle for most of us to live off the land, even given free land. The vegetables I raise and eat are costing me more than at the store, but worth it. I give them away rather than explain why I don't want their money. If they have something that I wanted that didn't come from a store, I'd be happy to trade. Monsanto Die-it

[-] 1 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 2 years ago

We have to stop Monsanto patenting life. They'll be coming for our genes if we don't end this.

[-] 1 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 2 years ago

Somewhere in the Schools Sucks http://edu-lu-tion.com/ podcasts Brett Veinotte compares schools with prisons. It really struck a cord with me. It is exactly the same social dynamic. In prisons you have to fit in and join a clique so as to avoid getting attacked and in schools we also learn these same "social skills". It is entirely unnatural to be forced together with other children and schools also foster an age divide between adults and children same as prison guards and prisoners. The dicipline taught in schools is more like subservience and they teach compliance, conformity, apathy and dependence rather than self discipline which is so valuable.


[-] 1 points by tstorey (17) from Newport, RI 2 years ago

You are correct. Today's schools are indoctrination prisons. Schools should be locally based. Schools should be small. It will be a good day when the department of education closes it's doors and large regional high schools end.

[-] 1 points by Markmad (323) 2 years ago

Knowledge and education are two complete systems of learning. The first one it’s about surviving skills and the second about being certify by the state to exercise a profession. Knowledge is free; to get it you need to fallow the leading scientist. Education; to get it you must go into debt and yet have no knowledge of other fields of science.

[-] 1 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 2 years ago

Some of those schools in the US really do look like prisons and they produce quite uniform system slaves. The teachers and parents themselves also went to school so there is quite a big problem.

[-] 1 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 2 years ago

"Each of the following books cover many areas of unschooling, radical unschooling and parenting; however we have grouped the books of what they focus on for easier perusal: http://unschoolingretreat.blogspot.com/p/recommended-reading_04.html

[-] 1 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 2 years ago

News Extra: UNschooling "Going to school is a childhood ritual for millions of people across the world. But a growing number of families say learning doesn't need to be confined to school. They're called unschoolers. Their children don't go to school, and are free to explore topics that interest them. There are no tests or work books, but parents say, there's plenty of learning. Hear what one father has to say about his family's decision to unschool." http://www.wgme.com/newsroom/features/sweeps_extra/videos/vid_13.shtml

[-] 1 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 2 years ago

Eco-Farming Can Double Food Production in 10 Years – Small-scale farmers can double food production within 10 years in critical regions by using ecological methods, a new UN report* shows. http://www.srfood.org/images/stories/pdf/press_releases/20110308_agroecology-report-pr_en.pdf

[-] 1 points by Argentina (178) from Puerto Madryn, Chubut 2 years ago

Looks good, but how you put 87.4 inhabitants per square mile (33.7 /km2)

How much sqaure miles you need to put those food garden. How much food can they give?

[-] 1 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 2 years ago

A family of 4 per hectare on average would be 400 people per km2. Simple answer is a lot of food of much higher quality than today and there is plenty of land to do it. 1 quarter of each hectare is suggested to be left 'wild' to provide habitat for other species.

[-] 1 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 2 years ago

Food Sovereignty, a European answer to the crisis! , “we are convinced that a change to our food system is a first step towards a broader change in our societies”. http://viacampesina.org/en/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1106:food-sovereignty-a-european-answer-to-the-crisis&catid=21:food-sovereignty-and-trade&Itemid=38

[-] 1 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 2 years ago

"Declaration of Nyeleni Europe FOOD SOVEREIGNTY IN EUROPE NOW! http://nyeleni2011.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=145:declarartion&lang=en

[-] 1 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 2 years ago

This website is still down. Very strange.

[-] 1 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 2 years ago

"Towards a democratic, inclusive, participatory and fun structure in all events: An explanation of the Nyeleni structure http://www.wdm.org.uk/news/towards-democratic-inclusive-participatory-and-fun-structure-all-events-explanation-nyeleni-str

[-] 1 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 2 years ago

"'Food sovereignty is all about rights' - an interview with Andreas Ferrante, chair of the Italian association for organic farming http://www.wdm.org.uk/blog/food-sovereignty-all-about-rights-interview-andreas-ferrante-chair-italian-association-organic-

[-] 1 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 2 years ago

Amazing video on La via campesina http://vimeo.com/27473286

[-] 1 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 2 years ago

WE LOVE YOU

http://vimeo.com/5562245

"Burning Man is now a household name but the older, more fascinating, Rainbow Gatherings are still obscure. Every summer since 1972 thousands of people co-create a temporary city deep in the wilderness of our national forests. This isn't a music festival, people are there to practice anarchy and hippy spirituality. The "main event" is an elaborate prayer for peace on July 4th. We Love You documents the 2008 Rainbow Gathering in Wyoming. The Rainbows' peaceful ways are challenged when federal agents charged with monitoring them shoot pepper spray projectiles into the children's' area of the gathering. "

[-] 1 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 2 years ago

Shocking when you see them spraying the kids area.

[-] 1 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 2 years ago

Bulgaria Becomes 7th EU Country to Ban GMOs http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=124815

[-] 1 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 2 years ago

"The Disappearing Male takes a close and disturbing look at what many doctors and researchers now suspect are responsible for many of these problems: a class of common chemicals that are ubiquitous in our world.

Found in everything from shampoo, sunglasses, meat and dairy products, carpet, cosmetics and baby bottles, they are called "hormone mimicking" or "endocrine disrupting" chemicals and they may be starting to damage the most basic building blocks of human development. " http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=26130 http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3450754654538943

[-] 1 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 2 years ago

Cécile Corbel - The Neglected Garden http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uj9tOf6ep74

[-] 1 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 2 years ago

It is quite a concern. We are surrounded by toxic materials and the corporations want to keep selling them. It's everywhere. If we don't act now things are just going to get worse and who knows if or when the point of no return is.

[-] 1 points by wallstreettrader (8) 3 years ago

Money and jobs are not important..??

It took money to put this web site up here..

Is that important to you..??

You folks who keep saying that we need to get rid of money...please help me understand what that means. Are you really saying that it needs to stop flowing to the richest folks..??

Nothing flows unless you turn on the spigot. Spend on what you need, and stop spending on what you want, save some $$ after you pay down all your debt, and the money will flow.

Managing $$ wisely is the key.

Get out of debt....and stay that way.......

[-] 1 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 1 year ago

There was a reason I made that statement. The focus is the fresh food, pure water, living environment and healthy relationships. This is the primary subject. Money and jobs is a secondary issue to be kept out of discussion untill such a time as the primary issues are settled. If you allow media, politicians, people or yourself to get caught up in discussion of money and jobs you can not make any progress since you are already confined in a sandbox where limitations have been placed to ensure non progress . Rest assured that the proposals here do however create ideal employment and total abundance as a consequence of getting the foundations right. Remember without solid foundations there is no point in fixing the chimney as even the chimney is concerned first with the foundations. The Chimney wants the foundations fixed before repairs are made to the Chimney because if the whole house falls down while you are fixing the chimney it is not going to be alright and the windows, ceiling and furnishings all agree.

[-] 1 points by e000 (371) 2 years ago

"In the beginning it arose from no distrust of the currency itself. The great majority of the people were willing to receive, and actually did receive it at par, till the action of speculators forced up prices."

[-] 1 points by e000 (371) 2 years ago

Actually, it took manufactured hardware, electricity, and technical expertise, as I understand it. These things were provided for in exchange for a representation of other labor or services (paper or electronic transactions representing money). Money in the end is either burnable or melt-able in its various forms, but you can't eat the stuff. Don't forget that part. :) Without actual resources, money is useless. Consider the Confederate Blueback for a real-life example of why money is not the end, but just a middle man, and often an untrustworthy one, at that.

[-] 1 points by wallstreettrader (8) 3 years ago

Money and jobs are not important..??

It took money to put this web site up here..

Is that important to you..??

You folks who keep saying that we need to get rid of money...please help me understand what that means. Are you really saying that it needs to stop flowing to the richest folks..??

Nothing flows unless you turn on the spigot. Spend on what you need, and stop spending on what you want, save some $$ after you pay down all your debt, and the money will flow.

Managing $$ wisely is the key.

Get out of debt....and stay that way.......

[-] 1 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 3 years ago

Yes great advice. The issue with money is all about intent. Is the money being used to create freedom and abundance or perpetuate slavery and money? See: http://www.ringingcedarsrevolution.com/forum/topics/how-do-you-feel-about-money?groupUrl=thebookofabundance&groupId=2975522%3AGroup%3A4805&id=2975522%3ATopic%3A152975

[-] 1 points by KnowledgeableFellow (471) 3 years ago

Having a garden is not a new idea. Geez.

[-] 0 points by karenpoore (902) 2 years ago

Geez why do I see so many lawns of useless grass that waste our water for vanity then? How about this for a new idea ... people becoming more self sustainable. People cannot even feed themselves. What would happen if the grocery store shelves were bare? People would starve to death. Vegetables are power houses that lead to health and coming from the "garden" cannot be beat.

[Removed]

[-] 1 points by genanmer (822) 3 years ago

You have any recommended readings/videos on permaculture?

This way there's less reliance on the current system for pesticides, herbicides, fertilizer, etc.

[-] 2 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 3 years ago

Hi genanmer, there is a great video I posted above about Sepp Holzer's farm. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kl9rkXifxrw&feature=related

The Permaculture Concept - Part One http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofKTgmW_FAg

Permaculture - Greening the Desert Final http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gPvsl9ni-4

I would recommend the Ringing Cedars series if you want more than just gardening. http://ringingcedars.com/

[-] 2 points by Kulafarmer2 (118) 3 years ago

Not part of the discussion but a book that i read often, sorta like a bible, is by Elliot Coleman, the title is The New Organic Grower, has some spot on guidance, i have a small comercial "family farm" and his direction and ideas have proven to be spot on and real helpful, Cheers

[-] 1 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 3 years ago

Thanks for the information Kulafarmer2. Keep it coming everyone.

[-] 1 points by Kulafarmer2 (118) 3 years ago

You are very welcome, much more civil at the multitude, moderated discussions and people need to be accountable,

[-] 1 points by dingalingy (54) 3 years ago

gardening and especially food gardening solves a basic human need in a beautiful way and it brings people together.

go microbes!

[-] 1 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 3 years ago

Thanks for your comment. In which ways do food gardens bring people together?

[-] 1 points by dingalingy (54) 3 years ago

because not everyone has sunshine, and we all need to work together to make the soil better. i work in a native plant and organic vegetable nursery.

[-] 1 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 3 years ago

That sounds interesting. Which part of the world are you in?

I found a great winter greenhouse design: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAO44WpSleI http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Walipini_Underground_Greenhouses

I was reading an article about winter gardening: http://lewrockwell.com/mercola/mercola149.html

[-] 1 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 3 years ago

Fresh food, pure water, a living environment, and healthy relationships surely has to be the priority. If nothing else we should atleast keep the debate centred on the things people actually need. Imagine politicians and media talking about these issues. That is what will happen if we keep bringing the focus back to what really matters. Don't let them sandbox us in debates about money, jobs, the right, left, banks, elections etc.

[-] 1 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 3 years ago

sand·box:

A shallow box or hollow in the ground partly filled with sand for children to play in.

A sandbox is a testing environment that isolates untested code changes and outright experimentation from the production environment or repository, in the context of software development including Web development and revision control. Sandboxing protects "live" servers and their data...

[-] 1 points by gagablogger (207) 3 years ago

Yes, we moved from a big city to a small city to downsize our lives. Our mortgage is much lower and it is our only major debt (we always save money) and we now have a nice big organic, garden. And were adding a chicken coop next spring.

[-] 1 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 3 years ago

Hi this is great news. How are you enjoying the food and are you feeling less stressed and happier?

[-] 1 points by gagablogger (207) 3 years ago

Definitely. I work close to my job now and can bike to work more. I miss the culture the big city has to offer but the pros do outweigh the cons where we are now! We grow organic and heirloom vegs. If you have never eaten a 'moonglow' tomato you are missing out in life. Lol

[-] 1 points by crone (8) 3 years ago

Our Greek brothers and sisters are ahead of us in taking to the streets. They are also ahead of us in getting back to the land, and in the case of the fisherfolk, back to the sea.
(http://www.counterpunch.org/2011/10/18/how-greeks-were-driven-back-to-the-land/)

It is a beautiful vision - instead of lawns, every green space covered with vegetable and fruit and nut-bearing plants.

If your vegetables are non-hybrids, you can save the seeds and use them next year. Same for flowers.

Don't forget the bunnies and the chickens, even if you are vegetarian. You don't have to eat them - just use their poop to make your garden even better.

This is all part of the new world.

[-] 1 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 3 years ago

Hi, Chickens are great.

There is a great article called Are we... battery hens? http://www.spaceoflovemagazine.com/images/SOL_10_page32.pdf

[-] 1 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 3 years ago

"Over the years we have had complaints about our "negativity" but most people don't realize how they are contributing to the negative situation they are all in by the way they think and live their lives. We are just pointing this out because, until we learn to change our thinking, we will never change the way we are living. As Jules points out [below], we are indeed battery hens that, just like the one in the story, don't know any different. We don't know what it is to be truly living as LIFE and therefore, we think that the mundane drudgery of "The System" is the best we can get. This is what we have been trying to wake people up to all this time; LIFE without "The System" is not some exhausting, endless toil with a struggle for food. LIFE as LIFE is peace, freedom, abundance and joy for ALL." http://www.spaceoflovemagazine.com/images/SOL_10_page32.pdf

[-] 1 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 3 years ago

What about the law? Do no harm. Isn't it harming people to take their resources? What about the children working in sweat shops to produce all this junk?

Come on guys. Lets get serious.

[-] 1 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 3 years ago

Solidarity with Jeju Island.

"Thankfully, committed activists and villagers have been able to reach out globally and an international movement against the naval base is building up because it threatens the security of the entire region. With Shanghai only 300 miles away this naval base will serve a significant strategic role in the ballistic missile defense system that the U.S. is building up around China. While the Korean government highlights the economic benefits from the naval base, most locals know that the naval base inevitably will destroy their farms and their way of life, all because of political thousands of miles away in Washington DC." http://cchronicle.com/2011/08/liberalizing-the-economy-may-crush-the-culture-of-one-small-island/

[-] 1 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 3 years ago

Liberalizing the Economy May Crush the Culture of One Small Island

"Korean farmers have long protested the market liberalization, which does not mean free competition, but more resembles a wipe out of South Korean agriculture and farmers at the hands of American subsidized food imports. In Jeju, and in many other parts of Korea, farmers have realized the futility of competing in a market where quantity and price are the deciding factors. By advocating for Food Sovereignty Jeju farmers are attempting to develop a new market for healthy sustainable local food that can counter the free trade logic and at the same time preserve the islands agricultural heritage." http://cchronicle.com/2011/08/liberalizing-the-economy-may-crush-the-culture-of-one-small-island/

[-] 1 points by Space (79) 3 years ago

Right on!

[-] 1 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 3 years ago

Thanks for your comment. Everyone lets's here what you think. Speak your mind.

[-] 1 points by Space (79) 3 years ago

You know it - growing a garden is the best thing people can be doing to improve their lives. Buy made in USA garden tools while your at it.

[-] 1 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 3 years ago

This is a great documentary that will appeal to Christians but it is also very practical. http://www.backtoedenfilm.com

Amazing how simple it really is. Like in the video he says how the trees are so healthy and don't do any work at all. I wouldn't call planting a garden work anymore than cooking dinner.

[-] 1 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 3 years ago

Monsanto plans to own all seed: http://www.gmwatch.eu/gm-videos/24-corporate-takeover/12112-monsanto-will-own-all-seed

This is critical to stop. Gm crops are so dangerous. Anyone know anything about eugenics?

Take back your Motherland.

[-] 1 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 3 years ago

Did you hear about the girl who borrowed 120,000 dollars to go to university and learn some BS. She could have bought enough land and established family food gardens for several families for that money that would provide Fresh food, pure water, a living environment, and healthy relationships for future generations too.

Think about the future. Love is one of the biggest victims of the system.

[-] 1 points by littleg (452) 3 years ago

I guess we can easily get a Student loan than load to buy farm land. That is the way our modern society and govt has developed. Our schools and colleges are like training camps for slaves meant to work at one of the Corporation of America !

Unfortunately the corporations ditched our slaves and are recruiting cheaper slaves in third world countries.

p.s: I'm also a slave, but hope to be free sometime soon. Nice article. I would like to add that if we have a community of small organic farmers who can co-operate and collaborate with each other, that will be the best ! Each farmer can grow a different produce and everybody in the community can barter and enjoy the produce.

God bless!

[-] 1 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 3 years ago

Hi, Thanks for your comment. I have a fascinating link about an education system based around love and abundance. http://books.google.com/books?id=96RtlHk0CJIC&pg=PA101#v=onepage&q&f=false

I also have this link about the current American education system that supports what you said from a teacher http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/chapters/index.htm

Plants help each other so mixing them all together is a great way. You can just give people your surplus and people probably will give you theirs but barter is also an option.

Enjoy your freedom and God bless you too!

[-] 1 points by mgiddin1 (1057) from Linthicum, MD 3 years ago

Excellent Post! I am all about self-sufficiency and producing healthy food of your own locally. Chickens, garden, canning, etc. And I don't have to pay top dollar for organic heirloom vegetables!

[-] 1 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 3 years ago

Thanks for your post. Do you have any recommendations for heirloom seed suppliers?

[-] 1 points by mgiddin1 (1057) from Linthicum, MD 3 years ago

Seedsavers.org, Sustainable Seed Company (but their shipping is too high), High Mowing Seeds, and Southern Exposure.

[-] 1 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 3 years ago

Thats really useful info. Thanks a lot.

[-] 1 points by mgiddin1 (1057) from Linthicum, MD 3 years ago

Also - if you are interested in self-sufficiency/sustainability. Look in to aquaponics. It is awesome! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qZPwBPAqks

[-] 1 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 3 years ago

Hi, that man is great. I have seen him before in a video and he helps a lot of people.

[-] 1 points by mgiddin1 (1057) from Linthicum, MD 3 years ago

I know - he employs a lot of inner city youth at the greenhouse and they learn how ecosystems work, how to grow their own food.

[-] 1 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 3 years ago

GM soy linked to sterility, infant mortality

"Originally, everything went smoothly. However, we noticed quite a serious effect when we selected new pairs from their cubs and continued to feed them as before. These pairs' growth rate was slower and reached their sexual maturity slowly."

He selected new pairs from each group, which generated another 39 litters. There were 52 pups born to the control group and 78 to the non-GM soy group. In the GM soy group, however, only 40 pups were born. And of these, 25% died. This was a fivefold higher death rate than the 5% seen among the controls. Of the hamsters that ate high GM soy content, only a single female hamster gave birth. She had 16 pups; about 20% died.

Surov said "The low numbers in F2 [third generation] showed that many animals were sterile."

The published paper will also include measurements of organ size for the third generation animals, including testes, spleen, uterus, etc. And if the team can raise sufficient funds, they will also analyze hormone levels in collected blood samples.

Hair Growing in the Mouth

Earlier this year, Surov co-authored a paper in Doklady Biological Sciences showing that in rare instances, hair grows inside recessed pouches in the mouths of hamsters.

"Some of these pouches contained single hairs; others, thick bundles of colorless or pigmented hairs reaching as high as the chewing surface of the teeth. Sometimes, the tooth row was surrounded with a regular brush of hair bundles on both sides. The hairs grew vertically and had sharp ends, often covered with lumps of a mucous."" http://www.gmwatch.org/latest-listing/1-news-items/12160-gm-soy-linked-to-sterility-infant-mortality

[-] 1 points by mgiddin1 (1057) from Linthicum, MD 3 years ago

I am also totally with you on GMO's. I was trying to explain this to another OWS person who is a nurse (like I am). She did not understand that GMO's are impossible to contain once introduced in the ecosystem.

Keep beating the drum on this.

You may really like also the website naturalnews.com

[-] 1 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 3 years ago

Hi, Thanks for your comment. Naturalnews is preety good site. They have some good articles. You are right about GMO contamination. For example: http://www.gmwatch.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=13448:gm-cotton-genes-found-in-wild-species-

Hopefully more people will start discussing this idea.

[-] 1 points by mgiddin1 (1057) from Linthicum, MD 3 years ago

I posted a thread on Food Freedom Now last week, and I didn't get any bites. There are some very important issues that OWS is not touching on at all - what comes to mind in no particular order is 1) food / medical freedom of choice 2) corruption in the courts and the Supremes - they are just as bought off as the politicians!! 3) the WARS, endless wars in 7 countries!!

Sometimes I get very depressed and discouraged. I'm lucky compared to most - I have been working hard at educating myself and getting off the grid. Also I have a master's degree but I'm not at all confident it will do me any good in the years to come.

[-] 1 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 3 years ago

It is unfortunate that more people don't comment. No objections so far as this is the only game in town!

The issues are so much more fundamental than many people seem to realise. We really have nothing to loose by adopting this proposal. It is the only thing that will actually work to address all the key issues for Americans and the foreign victims of America who sadly have not so far got the attention they deserve from OWS.

[-] 1 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 3 years ago

Craig Stapleton, former ambassador to France under the Bush administration, "asked Washington to punish the EU countries that did not support the use of GM crops," reported AlterNet. Stapleton wrote:

Country team Paris recommends that we calibrate a target retaliation list that

causes some pain across the EU since this is a collective responsibility, but that also focuses in part on the worst culprits. Moving to retaliation will make clear that the current path has real costs to EU interests and could help strengthen European pro-biotech voices.

So not only were U.S. diplomats working on behalf of the biotech industry, they were also advocating threatening other governments who didn't follow suit. http://foodwhistleblower.org/blog/22-2011/217-monsanto-interests-guide-us-diplomacy-wikileaks-cables-show

[-] 1 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 3 years ago

This is the quote about biodiverse systems: "Compared with the average of the single best species in monoculture, the 16 species plots had 39% greater aboveground biomass and 42% greater total biomass on average for 1999 and 2000. Moreover, 16-species plots in 1999 and 2000 had 2.7 to 2.9 times greater aboveground and total biomass than the average for all species in monoculture. The positive effects of diversity on productivity strengthen through time." http://permaculture.org.au/2008/09/23/biodiverse-systems-are-more-productive/

Thats almost 3 times as much food on the same amount of land. We can have total abundance.

[-] 1 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 3 years ago

In Russia there is already a region that has begun making family food gardens available to people for free. I bet you didn't here about that on CNN:) http://www.ringingcedarsofrussia.org/cedar-nut-oil/population-health-care.html#world1

[-] 1 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 3 years ago

There is a fascinating story about how money was invented to enslave people. http://discussions.ghanaweb.com/viewtopic.php?t=109693&sid=4c8db048fc637c927b86a8c1c1a4158d

Also did you here about the moneyless man! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVCnQNu83zM

There is a great article about OWS on his site: http://www.justfortheloveofit.org/blog-5714~occupy-wall-st---a-guest-blog-by-charles-eisenstein

Although I would say there is a demand big enough! Family food gardens for every willing family!

[-] 0 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 2 years ago

"You can get your life back, it’s your birthright!

Are you feeling it?

The feeling that something just isn’t quite right?

That there truly is something more to life than a task list, your schedule, worry and distress. . .

Now is a good time to turn off autopilot, take a look around, and just breathe a little. You deserve it.

There is a natural blueprint within all of us for peace, health, and true aliveness.

It’s easy to find these Attributes of Connection when we’re in the wilderness, immersed in the beauty of nature. But how do we access these gifts from nature in the midst of the distractions and challenges of modern life?" http://www.8giftsfromnature.com

[-] 0 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 2 years ago

Mother of us ALL - Tracey Chapman - Rape of the World http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZP9ao9u6Hc&feature=player_embedded

[-] 0 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 2 years ago

How to thrive off he grid with no electricity, water, car, internet, TV or solid house #183 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXSQWQP4tmw&feature=player_embedded

[-] 0 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 2 years ago

Defense Against the Psychopath (Full length Version) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgGyvxqYSbE&feature=player_embedded#!

[-] 0 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 2 years ago

OCCUPY WALL STREET TRIBUTE POEM "MARCH ON" by Apollo Poetry http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8bID-4bIPY&feature=player_embedded#!

[-] 0 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 2 years ago

The Space of Love

For his fifth birthday he was given a baby cherry tree, His very own to plant, about which he did rant. This little tree was delicate and Needed a good deal of love and attention to grow. It was up to him to ensure the little tree Would be big and strong And could inspire nature's song.

And that little tree worked very hard To be the best tree she could 'Cause she wanted so badly to impress the boy. Through the gesture of beauty, The tree gave birth to a flower bud. The boy was so happy he kissed the little tree, And with that birthed the space of love, A place by where he could always go when he felt low To rekindle his joy glow.

As time went by, that cherry tree grew tall and flowered. She even started to make cherries for her precious boy. She hoped that her cherries would meet his lips, And she could somehow return the kiss. The little tree had fallen in love with her admirer.

Without him, she would not be here. Oh sure, she might have ended up growing somewhere else, But would they have taken care of her and kissed her Like her little caretaker who embodied innocent love? What a sweet love he possessed!
Would her cherries be just as sweet? She worked hard for his kind words and appreciation, For the way his hands gently stroked the leaves. She was truly alive because he acknowledged her existence.

The little boy grew into a big boy and went back to his cherry tree. He had in hand a bag of cherries he bought from the store. "I love that color of blossoms,'' he said. "My, what color! Oh, what is this? Cherries for me--only three? Well, I will let them be.'' Then he left and went into the house.

The cherry tree cried tears of sap. She felt rejected. "What did I do wrong?'' she thought. "How could he reject my fruit, my love, And instead choose to eat the fruit of a tree He never spoke to? That other tree could not possibly love him as much as I did.''

Her sap tears were magical, and out of them came a fairy. It was her guardian fairy. "I want to die.'' she said. "Call a great flame to consume me now, Or call the wind to rip out my roots.''

The guardian fairy said, "Your love is pure, true love. Nothing will end that, my dear. I come to tell you we have heard your heart's desire To return his kiss back to him, So he may know how much you love and appreciate him.''

With that, the fairy turned into a beautiful maiden And went and found the boy fishing by the creek. She told the boy all about the cherry tree's wish And said, "You I must kiss for her. She will feel it through me.''

She leaned forward and gave him The softest, sweetest, most unique kiss he ever had. "Do you know how sad she was when you rejected her And the gift of her cherries? Oh, how badly she wanted you to take and enjoy her cherries, The very same place you birthed the love space, A place by where you could always go when you felt low To rekindle your joy glow.'' http://www.jessicamystic.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=635:the-space-of-love&catid=15:latest&Itemid=34

[-] 0 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 2 years ago

Civil disobedience against banks - Enric Duran (English Sub) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a90Ep1PZzuA

"In 2009 Duran returned to Spain, and was arrested by Spanish police on March 17, 2009 at the University of Barcelona, as charges had been brought against him by six of the thirty-nine banks concerned. He spent two months in prison before being freed on bail.[6][7] He planned for the anniversary of his declaration (September 17, 2009) to be an action day where people meet, both in Spain and abroad, to share alternatives to capitalism" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enric_Duran

[-] 0 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 2 years ago

Bill allows for dachas to legally be homes http://themoscownews.com/society/20111005/189096291.html

[-] 0 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 2 years ago

15M what's happening in Spain?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80UdS9WuQXA

"An interview with Juan del Rio and Duncan Crowley from Transition Barcelona at the International Transition Network Conference, explaining what has been happening recently with the 15M movement in Spain."

[-] 0 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 2 years ago

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peXCX7XKJWM&feature=player_embedded#!

"OWS VS The Media

The true character of OWS and the worldwide Occupy movement is being misrepresented by the media to further and agenda that has been in place for a long time."

[-] 0 points by atki4564 (1259) from Lake Placid, FL 2 years ago

Agreed, and I have studied this issue very technically and mathematically for years as well (like you), including it as an extremely powerful 1 of 48 Tactical Investment Procedures in our group's plan, so perhaps you would consider our group's proposal of an alternative online direct democracy of government and business at http://getsatisfaction.com/americanselect/topics/on_strategically_weighted_policies_organizational_operating_structures_tactical_investment_procedures-448eo , hit the facebook “like” button if agreed, and then join our group's 20 members committed to that plan at http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/StrategicInternationalSystems/

[-] 0 points by lifesprizes (298) 2 years ago

Great Ideas - Yes I have heard of Sepp Holzer and his work with Permaculture. Permaculture is an approach to designing human settlements and agricultural systems that is modeled on the relationships found in nature.

It's a system of design where each element supports and feeds other elements, ultimately aiming at systems that are virtually self-sustaining and into which humans fit as an integral part.

[-] 1 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 2 years ago

Yes, humans can create living environments as well as destroy them.

[-] 0 points by ChristopherABrown (550) from Santa Barbara, CA 3 years ago

OMG!, this would probably work!----

"By electing politicians who also have a family food garden you can make sure you elect people who do not care about money."

But, to get to that point, we will need an Article V convention.

Congress is very afraid of it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_to_propose_amendments_to_the_United_States_Constitution "Congress acted preemptively to propose the amendments instead. At least four amendments (the Seventeenth, Twenty-First, Twenty-Second, and Twenty-Fifth Amendments) have been identified as being proposed by Congress at least partly in response to the threat of an Article V convention."

Our first right in our contract is Article V, the right to have congress convene delgates when 2/3 of the states have applied for an amendatory convention.

Article. V.

The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.

Lots of facts here about Article V. http://algoxy.com/poly/article_v_convention.html

Lessig power point on article V http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gpbfY-atMk

Article V conference, Mark Meckler Lawrence Lessig at harvard 9/25/11-video comments http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-7ikbvu0Y8

[-] 0 points by metapolitik (1110) 3 years ago

Great place to start!

[-] 0 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 3 years ago

Hi metapolitik, Thanks for your post. It is very important to start in the right place by concentrating on the fundamentals like fresh food, pure water, a living environment, and healthy relationships.

[-] 0 points by jomojo (562) 3 years ago

I found this by google search: occupy wall street forum GMO.

Monsanto: Die-it

The modern food myths will not be swallowed.

Anytime you bypass the industrial farm system, you are going in the right direction.

A child planting a watermelon seed or other fun plant is a time to remember.

Healthy FamilyFoodGardens = best Healthcare program.

I enjoy "Meet the Farmer" on Free Speech TV.

I gotta dig sweet potatoes. exercise!

[-] 1 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 3 years ago

It is true, healthy food, water and relationships are prerequisites for a healthy nation and world.

[-] 0 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 3 years ago

Really rare awakening movie now available in English. Banned in the US. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5CmMm_SRpM

[-] 0 points by michaelbravo (222) 3 years ago

also even f you cant eat everything you grow give it away you reap the benifits that way!!

[-] 0 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 3 years ago

The plants give freely so why not give the surplus freely?

[-] 0 points by michaelbravo (222) 3 years ago

never use miracle grow it kills your soil soil is alive..pay attention to the light requirements of each type of plant,....if you live in an apartment you can container garden...if your new to gardening..ask a friend or 2 who isnt so much to new gardening is THE major earth science it gets you in touch with the earth and its fun seeds are better than sprouts cause you get more plants for your money..i could talk for days but let me just say....its best to live in harmony with nature

[-] 0 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 3 years ago

Hi michaelbravo, yes for the love of life and a life of love.

[-] 0 points by michaelbravo (222) 3 years ago

sometimes if people bring me down my 10 000 plants are my best friends

[-] 0 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 3 years ago

I'm glad you have so many.

[-] 0 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 3 years ago

If your super rich then there is a really important story to read. I won't spoil if for you but I must warn you it is extremely infectious and you should only read it in natural surroundings. http://books.google.com/books?id=BKdPuXJlTjoC&pg=PA78&dq=ringing+cedars+billionaire&hl=en&ei=5tS5TNO8E8KSjAfv7uSnDg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CCoQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false

[-] 0 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 3 years ago

Occupy Wall St: No Demand is Big Enough http://www.justfortheloveofit.org/blog-5714~occupy-wall-st---a-guest-blog-by-charles-eisenstein

This is the best article. Push the boat out.

Occupy your motherland!.

[-] 0 points by karenpoore (902) 3 years ago

Yes, I think it is called self sustainability! Along with that each could develop a skill set ... something you like doing and have a talent for and trade ... communities!

[-] 1 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 3 years ago

Thanks for the comment. Everyone jump in and add your views. Lets make this the number one thread with lots of info about real solutions.

[-] -1 points by marcxstar (167) from Los Angeles, CA 3 years ago

Bump!

[-] 0 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 3 years ago

Thanks for the bump. Keep them coming. This is the only game in town.

[-] -1 points by marcxstar (167) from Los Angeles, CA 3 years ago

Thanks for the great info!

[-] 0 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 3 years ago

Don't forget to bookmark this page and come back to read more and add your thoughts.

[-] -1 points by marcxstar (167) from Los Angeles, CA 3 years ago

Already did.

[-] 0 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 3 years ago

Great. Links from other threads is also a good idea.