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Forum Post: Explosive growth of Sovereign Citizen hate groups

Posted 2 years ago on March 8, 2012, 2:44 p.m. EST by brightonsage (4494)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

A new report documents the growth of these groups since 2008. What a coincidence? Well maybe not. Remember when the Homeland Security published a report warning about domestic terror threats and the GOP went ballistic? Wonder why? Check this out.

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/MSNBC/Sections/NEWS/z_Personal/Huus/Year%20in%20Hate%20IR145.pdf

Where do you think it goes from here? Is this what we are to become?

111 Comments

111 Comments


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[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6883) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

You are hitting it dead on here Brighton, when leaders use language designed to draw out the most base of emotions and build hater it is only natural that they would have some success. Especially when they are supported with millions in research to determine just the best way to make people hate.

You ask, where do we go from here?

There is always more then one path, we could cut the cancer from us with a truth scalpel.

Or we keep our heads in the sand and let those like the judge in MT take power, and then these groups start acting without repercussions, and all hell breaks loose.

I think this is a another place Clinton let us down, he should have gone all George W Bush on the militias after Oklahoma City. Thought so then, think so now.

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

wow

this is a complete surprise

my media culture did not inform me of a rise in hate groups

nor have my family or friends spoken of this ride in hate in civilization

that I did not observe.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

Maybe you don't just hang our where this is happening. The groups they show on the maps as being local do sometimes show up to protect at parades or protest the local OWS. And they sometimes post sites in the woods with more than "private."

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago
[-] -1 points by BlackSun (275) from Agua León, BC 2 years ago

So what? Again, what does it effect?

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

Spoken like a Saudi in 2000.

[-] 1 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 2 years ago

I would like to know how many of these people are registered Republicans. If the percentage is quite high, then I think that is a very revealing statistic. Probably more revealing than a Gallop poll.

[-] 0 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

There seems to be some difficulty getting full disclosure from them. You might almost assume they were up to no good? Naaah!

[-] 1 points by Newspeak1 (39) from Mt Shasta, CA 2 years ago

I fail to understand why you are panicking. These people effect nothing.

[-] 1 points by nomdeguerre (1775) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

There's a fraud going on here. Most Sovereign Citizen's groups are not hate groups. There's an attempt to smear the words sovereign and citizen. Citizens are in fact sovereign in a democracy.

Don't be fooled by The Southern Poverty Law Center, it's not what it appears to be. Which isn't surprising considering it was founded by the psychopath, Morris Dees.

[-] 0 points by Newspeak1 (39) from Mt Shasta, CA 2 years ago

I know all that. And of course these people are going to smear them. That's a given. And the SPLC is a leftist garbage heap masquerading as a respectable organization.

[-] 1 points by nomdeguerre (1775) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

Unfortunately most leftists (who are really just true believers in our democracy, like our founders) are still taken in by the SPLC.

[-] 0 points by Reneye (118) 2 years ago

Very astute nomdeguerre. The red flags went off for me too.

[-] 1 points by SmeggitySpooge (78) 2 years ago

Perhaps they are much larger in number and power than OWS. I do believe DHS even loosely includes Ron PauI supporters with them.

[-] 0 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

I believe they attacked and killed 6 policemen last year whose families probably disagree with you.

[-] 0 points by BlackSun (275) from Agua León, BC 2 years ago

And while those families deserve our sympathies many more cops are killed by gangbangers every year. And in answering domestic abuse calls.and since when does anyone on OWS care about cops getting killed? Some probably even cheer it. Again, why is this something to concern OWS?

[-] 2 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

So what topics have you brought up in this forum? Lies by Limbaugh! You are using our oxygen.

[-] 1 points by BlackSun (275) from Agua León, BC 2 years ago

How about answering the question. And I've brought up several. Try looking them up. Why should OWS be concerned with these tiny groups of psychotics?

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Don't know about OWS, but DHS is very concerned with these boys with guns, and rightly so.

[-] 0 points by BlackSun (275) from Agua León, BC 2 years ago

There ya go. The left wing Gestapo. I'm sure they make you happy.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Still hung up on winger shit, eh?

DHS is not a political entity, it wouldn't matter what "party" was in office, they just do their job.

Too bad for you, that you see the groups they are after as "right wing".

I just see them as extremist bozos with guns, and a bad attitude.

[-] -1 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

The center counted 1,018 hate groups in the United States last year, up from 1,002 in 2010. The number of groups have been increasing since 2000, when the center counted 602.

Potok said it was hard to gauge how many Americans are members of hate groups, but estimated the number was between 200,000 and 300,000 people.

The center also estimated that some 300,000 Americans were part of the so-called "sovereign citizens" movement who flout most laws, do not pay federal taxes and even refuse to obtain driver's licenses.

How many did it take for the Oklahoma City bombing?. How many did 9/11 take? I see cops as part of the 99% and many side with us. I have deplored violence against cops on this space. Gang bangers aren't espousing a philosophy that I support and I deplore them. I also deplore the philosophy of these hate groups. Protect your buddies but do it somewhere else.

[-] 0 points by BlackSun (275) from Agua León, BC 2 years ago

300,000. Out of well over 300,000,000 people. Yeah, an immediate threat. Go waste your paranoid garbage somewhere else.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

More real than WMD and 10 years of war, $3 trillion. My thread. Start your own.

[-] 0 points by BlackSun (275) from Agua León, BC 2 years ago

So if it's your thread you don't have to make sense? Actually be able to defend your position? Appear as any thing other than a shallow-minded idiot?

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

I read your other comments. Your reputation precedes you.

[-] -1 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

In what math is 300,000 people an insignificant number?

9/11 killed 3000 people and it was enough to go to war over.

[-] 1 points by BlackSun (275) from Agua León, BC 2 years ago

Your point? If you are going to compare 9/11 deaths to so called sovereign citizens ( which if any of you Marxist assholes had any brains would realize the very title makes no sense) then you are running out of distractive propaganda.

[-] -2 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

NO. You claimed that 300000 people was a small number. It is not. Even one one hundredth of that is a big enough number to go to for over.

As a number, all by itself 300,000 is HUGE, regardless of what percent of the population it is.

[-] 1 points by incomeforall (64) 2 years ago

Interesting factoid: OWS has caused more damage than all of them put together!

[-] 0 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

Since you don't know what a fact is, there is no chance you would know what a factoid would be. Then of course you throw out a bald face lie and claim that it is it is something else. Back under the rock, you are annoying the adults here.

[-] 2 points by incomeforall (64) 2 years ago

LOL! Is your response the internet equivalent of squinching your eyes shut, sticking your fingers in your ears and yelling; lalalalalalalalala to avoid hearing the truth?

.OWS has caused millions in damage, no secret about that, watch CNBC. There are plans discussed on this very board that will cost cities millions more this spring, you no doubt applaud those plans and dream of sticking it too the man but of course, you will be too busy to actually get off your ass and do anything.

The groups that are the subject of this post think differently than you do therefore you must demonize them and call the racists or whatever because if they are racist you don't have to pay attention to what they say, isn't that convenient? :)

Same tired old lefty rhetoric.

[-] 0 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

Blather, take it with you.

[-] 0 points by beautifulworld (20525) 2 years ago

Very sad. Where does it go? Backwards.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

These guys who say 300,000 isn't very many or 500,000 that's not a large percentage of 300,000,000. I wonder, if they were all al Qaeda would they think that was just a few? Or, would it be a lot? Seems like a lot to me.

Why would they want us to believe they pose no threat? I remember Oklahoma City. Two guys (maybe 3) killed a lot of innocent people and ruined the lives of many many others. What they say out loud is very scary. Wonder what they say in private?

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (20525) 2 years ago

I don't want to know.

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by GreedKills (1119) 2 years ago

Same thing happened when Clinton was in office. Now their hate is at a even higher level since Obama is not the same as most of them.

[-] 0 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

Correct, but what to do?

[-] -1 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

It is really disturbing when you look at how widespread the distribution (right down the street) and how many different flavors there are.

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

Several little factions that wouldn't recognize the Constitution if it came up and bit them on their behinds, whilst parroting political commentators?

I think you are seeing a rise in it due to scapegoating. I really do.

[-] 2 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

Their versions of reality have some of the same terms in it but with very distorted meanings.

[-] -1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

I was over watching Right Wing Watch video clips and I kept thinking of this thread.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

Look at the post below Newspeak1, obviously a troll trying to lull us to sleep. Several really would like this topic to go away.

[-] 2 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

Checked it out. Chilling.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

I think it explains the growth. Disenfranchised people, scape goating, and lack of critical thinking skills makes for a great mix.

[-] 2 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

Thank you 1%.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

Exactly. Take a bunch of people that are having difficulty surviving and tell them to live with one foot in the grave at all times (so they don't have any expectations in this life) and then maintain focus on another group of people so that they never pay attention to the puppeteers.

[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (28250) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Good point Good Point - The Mask Revealed!!!!!!!!!!!!

Blatant manipulation.

[-] 1 points by SatanRepublican (136) 2 years ago

Several little girls would love to rationalize that everything they believe is true, when in fact, most of them are as full of shit as you.

No doubt you love to blame anything other than the truth. MANY more have become educated to facts you cannot begin to accept no matter how crystal clear they are.

Scapegoating, amusing.

[-] -1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

You sound like a petulant child. If you had any facts then you would have been able to present them. Unfortunately, you have failed to do this. Why don't you get a legitimate argument and get back to us. Put up or shut up.

[+] -5 points by Newspeak1 (39) from Mt Shasta, CA 2 years ago

Waite a minute. "wouldn't recognize the Constitution"? And that is confined to sovereign blah blah whatever?

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

Well, Sovereign Citizens are the worst of the bunch. They usually try to use old cases as evidence but neglect what the court held. They have extremely convoluted arguments.

[-] -1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 2 years ago

I think a lot of those groups are probably just as legitimate as many of the people here.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

So, go camp out with them you have so much in common.

[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 2 years ago

Some of them probably came and camped out with OWS.

[-] 2 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

I didn't invite them. What of their positions do you find so attractive?

[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 2 years ago

They sense the same problems in the economy as we do, because they suffer from it as well, but usually think of the solution in a different way.

[-] -1 points by SatanRepublican (136) 2 years ago

He who makes no demands of his neighbors and takes care of his own is righteous.

He who demands others take care of what he cannot or will not do for himself is vermin.

[-] -2 points by Carlitini99 (-167) 2 years ago

is this referring to the Southern Poverty Law Center list? If so i find it interesting that OWS is not on the list. And the timing of this to try to marginalize the Republicans and right before the election. Funny how lefty groups like SPLC never mention the violence on the left, Eco Terrorist, OWS, Weather Underground, Black Panthers....oh wait this just in... if you are the left you can be violent and hateful and its OK because you hate the haters and be violent against the police and white people!

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

Have you actually said this out loud? You are defending right wing extremists.............because it is right before the election........

REALLY?

SPLC does include Black Separatists

Why don't you actually go their website and don't forget to run a search on Eco Terrorism?

It is inexcusable to defend this.

[-] -2 points by Carlitini99 (-167) 2 years ago

Ok is OWS there? do you really believe that the Tea Party is a hate group?

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

I cannot find OWS in there, nor should it be. The Tea Party is not listed as a hate group, however, there are many groups that are associated with them.

The Tea Party targets hate groups and mobilizes them. Anti-LGBT, Anti-women, white nationalists, and other known extremists. It feeds off of them. http://www.splcenter.org/blog/?s=Tea+Party&submit=

Now, here is the thing. The Tea Party either needs another division to separate from that crazy aspect or get another group all together. What you cannot do is expect that most of OWS will come join the Tea Party. That would be shooting themselves in the foot.

[-] 0 points by Carlitini99 (-167) 2 years ago

the tea party is simple it wants lower taxes and smaller government. The SLPC is a left wing group and i won't believe that the Tea Party mobilizes anti-lgbt , anti women , white nationalist unless i see it from a vetted source. don't forget the the KKK was supporting OWS, is OWS pro KKK, no, at least i hope not. thank you for the civil discourse though.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

David Duke endorsed the Tea Party. Now, I'm pretty sure that there were some Tea Party people that cringed.

This demonstrates the inability to make that split between fiscal and social conservatives. They are in bed with the religious right. The extreme RR. Who do you think these people cater to?

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

I've never heard teabaggers spew anything but hate.

Plus the liars raised my taxes.

Teabaggers=liars.

[-] 0 points by Carlitini99 (-167) 2 years ago

really? you are calling them that disgusting name and that's not hate. And please give me an example of Tea Party hate. I can give you OWS hate and violence examples.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

They chose the name, not me. They even had it on their signs in the early days.

I had to ask my daughter what teabagger even meant.

I continue to use it as a reminder of just how misled and uninformed they really are.

Teabaggers hate me so much they raised my taxes. the lying scumbags.

[-] 1 points by Carlitini99 (-167) 2 years ago

that's rubbish it was started by the left. disgusting and now that you know what it is you still use it, that's hate language.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Awww, can't take how dumb teabaggers really are?

Yes, they did use the term in their early days.

They did raise my taxes, proving their whole concept to be a lie.

They do hate America, except for the silly hats and costumes.

If they had anything at all on the ball, they would have formed their own party, instead of becoming (R)epelican'ts.

[-] -1 points by Carlitini99 (-167) 2 years ago

shoozfly don't bother me. Adios enjoy your retardedment, i mean retirement.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Truth hurts, don't it?

So you shoot off a lame insult.

I hope you get a job someday so you can retire too, but that's just me.

You spew hate.

[-] -1 points by Carlitini99 (-167) 2 years ago

i have a job, a real job not a public sector Union wimp job like yours. you work for 9 months a year and then retire when the students start throwing up when they see you walk in. Then have the tax payers finance your retirement.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

in animal farm,

Boxer the horse worked all his life to support the "revolution"

when he was too old to work, he was shipped to the glue factory

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

More assumptions and another lame insult.

If you had a real job, you wouldn't be here.

The rest just sounds like you are jealous.

[-] -1 points by Carlitini99 (-167) 2 years ago

have you heard of computers that are mobile? probably not.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Meaning what?

You waste time on your job, posting BS in this forum?

Sounds like you need a time study done on your job.

[-] -2 points by Carlitini99 (-167) 2 years ago

perhaps but you sound like a Union guy. , i'm a programmer and used to multi tasking.

[-] -1 points by Carlitini99 (-167) 2 years ago

i don't belong to a lame Union that rips off tax payers like your Union. i have to work for a living.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

More hate??

I thought teabaggers didn't do that?

Teabaggers=liars.

Thanks for your calling card, now go get a real job.

Lazy boy.

[-] -1 points by Carlitini99 (-167) 2 years ago

you are calling me boy. that's a racist hate word! Southern Poverty Law Center! I have another hate group to put on your list -- shooz the lozer

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Help yourself.

You have sheep for brains, so I'm not too worried........:)

You should get a job though, and practice what you preach.

[-] -2 points by onetime (-67) 2 years ago

unions suck, look what it did to the big three!!! they produce junk

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

The truth is the thing you could care less about.

Why did you came here?

[-] -2 points by onetime (-67) 2 years ago

I have had several id's and I do not like OWS goons or libtards

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

I'd call you ignorant, but that would likely be a compliment.

I watched management tear off reject tags and send bad stock to assembly lines, saying, " let the dealers worry about it".

[-] -2 points by onetime (-67) 2 years ago

I could care less about that but what about all the cars / trucks that are falling apart?? No wonder why Toyota is such a huge seller

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

You really want to go there?

You have 0 proof.

They were wrecked by poor engineering, bad management and a fealty to WallStreet.

[-] -2 points by onetime (-67) 2 years ago

No that is not true, the big three is putting out junk because of the unions, that produced lazy ass workers and the unions protect them.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

I don't hate the haters. I just hate their hate.

Why is that so hard for you to understand?

[-] -1 points by Carlitini99 (-167) 2 years ago

good so you should hate the left's hate as well.

[-] 3 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

What hate is that?

The convoluted crap that trolls come up with?

[-] -1 points by Carlitini99 (-167) 2 years ago

Ok you lose all credibility if you think that the left has no hate .

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Prove it. Sheep man.

Find your fearless lying leader.

Beck, Hannity, Drudge, Limbaugh?

LIARS the lot of them.

[-] 0 points by Carlitini99 (-167) 2 years ago

the black panthers, bill mathers, ed schultz, keith olbermann, OWS (anti-semitic), Maxine Waters, ACLU, to name a few.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Really?

Let's try one on for size.

Tell me, please, what hate is being spewed by the ACLU?

[-] 0 points by Carlitini99 (-167) 2 years ago

that's good so you agree with the others on my humble list. why the ACLU, because they want to defend terrorist. terrorist are the kings of hate groups and the ACLU wanted voluntarily to represent them and defend them instead of having military tribunals.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

That doesn't prove hate, unless you think the Constitution is a hateful document.

They just test laws in the courts.

You have a strange concept of hate in general.

[-] 0 points by Carlitini99 (-167) 2 years ago

well since these terrorist aren't even american citizens and had committed acts of war against the U.S. i think the constitutions doesn't care if we kill them on the battlefield or take them to military court, not civilian court. But i'll give you that one the ACLU aren't hateful just traitorous.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

That's so freaking twisted.

Do you also think the Girl Scouts are subversive?

[-] -1 points by Carlitini99 (-167) 2 years ago

??? what are you talking about?

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Teabagger crap. I thought you might actually be paying attention.

I should have known better.

Teabaggers have an unusually short attention span.

[+] -4 points by DKAtoday (28250) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

shooz - Trolls don't come up with crap - they just repeat it - it takes imagination to create something, even a nasty something.

But you seem to have a generous spirit so I can understand the undeserved compliment. You are just too nice.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

They do seem to adopt certain tactics, as if in a hive state of mind.

[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (28250) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

No I think it's more like frequent handler updates. Huh an instantaneously thinking troll population what a scary thought.

Shame on you. ( laughing )

[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (28250) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

To some - what you just said - is like so complicated - Masters degree material.

Good food for thought.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

Why don't you compare the two lists? Be sure to count the groups and the total membership estimates. Its about 500,000 for the Southern Poverty Law Center. How many do you have?

[-] 0 points by Carlitini99 (-167) 2 years ago

i was answering shoozfly astonishing question or statement that the left has no hate or hate groups. sorry that i don't have all of that Soros money and left wing billionaire money to compile a 500,000 rubbish list like SPLC did.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

You have any evidence that it is rubbish (and what do classify as rubbish)or you just don't want people to give it the credence it deserves? Since some of them have committed crimes in the name of the group, how would you consider the group?

[-] -1 points by Carlitini99 (-167) 2 years ago

tell me what crimes the Tea Party has committed? The SPLC is a very radical organization and why should i believe anything that they say? Would you believe a list of left wing hate groups put out by Rush Linbaugh or foxnews? no you would want some more neutral group to vet the information.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

If they gave me the names of the organizations and names and pictures of those they talked to (as these guys did) I and others could check them out and see if their stories can be verified. Anybody contact the people whose names and pictures are in there? Is yours in there? Is that the problem?

SPLC is radical in what respect? They have been publishing and updating this report for years. What is your evidence that they are "radical"? Does that mean they aren't accurate? I can't find any evidence of what you say. I can find evidence corroboration what they say. Help me out here.

Here are comments from the Missouri Militia: From inside Anderson Gun Repair in Springfeidl Taylor, store-owner Rocket Anderson, and other members of the Missouri Militia's 4th battalion, 8th brigade are hesitant to talk to us for that exact reason.

"I'm sure there are a few bad eggs out there like with any group or community but for the most part all we are is just your friends, your neighbors and people you work with," says Taylor.

On the other hand: The KKK says their membership is “booming” in Colorado, with 12 white supremacist groups active in the state, according to a report by The Durango Herald.

Herald staff writer Chase Olivarius-McAllister reported earlier this week that Cole Thornton, Imperial Grand Wizard of Colorado’s United Northern and Southern Knights Ku Klux Klan group, claims that membership has grown steadily in the past few years.In Durango, Colorado, racially motivated hate crimes rose from just three crimes between the years of 2006 and 2009, to four in 2010, and 19 in 2011, according to the Herald's report.

The preliminary findings by the National Institute of Justice suggests that anti-Latino hate crimes rose disproportionally to other hate crimes between 2004 and 2008. Data collected by the FBI also indicates a steady rise in anti-Latino hate crimes across the country from 2003 to 2007.

I am finding more data that support them than discredits them