Forum Post: End the Federal Reserve
Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 4, 2011, 11:28 p.m. EST by MikePhillips
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Demand 1: Dismantle the Federal Reserve
Period.
When the people don't control their own money, whats the point in arguing about the economics of it?
Banks must not be in private hands! It is absurd that an institution like the Federal Reserve Bank is in private hands and lends the government money!
Agreed.
Federal Reserve is definitely where the attention needs to be focused.
I agree! Wall Street is only a symptom of a more systemic problem - that being the FED.
"The world economy is doomed to spiral downwards until we do 2 things: outlaw government borrowing; 2. outlaw fractional reserve lending. Banks should only be allowed to lend out money they actually have and nations do not have to run up a "National Debt". Remember: It's not what backs the money, it's who controls its quantity."
-The Secret of Oz, an amazing documentary on this topic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swkq2E8mswI
A good read....THe Creature from Jekyll Island
You all realize the Fed is Govt, not corporate america right? Pick a target, any target, and run w it.
You are 100% WRONG. Please do research before you think you know what you are saying. The FED is a private cartel, they make money OUT OF THIN AIR, then they CHARGE INTEREST to our government, so the government has enough money to bail out WALL ST
The fed isn't the government. Its is sort of a hybrid private bank that sets public policy. It is really the embodiment of corporatism. They regulate markets but every dollar they make enriches the share holders of the Federal Reserve Bank not the American people.
Read the book...The Creature from Jekyll Island
Yes, but the bankers essentially control the govt. and the corporations (among many other things). That being said, the focus should be on the Federal Reserve.
Check the link after the edit mark on this page for a working list of goals http://occupywallst.org/forum/first-official-release-from-occupy-wall-street/
and this Warning from the original Tea Party before it got hijacked http://occupywallst.org/forum/an-open-letter-and-warning-from-a-former-tea-party/
and this list of useful PDF files http://occupywallst.org/forum/demonstration-materials/
That is why the focus needs to be on The Federal Reserve cartel and the rest of the banksters, not "tax the rich", that will be the democratic twist that will dilute the message
Tea Party was started by Ron Paul before it got hijacked by neo-conservatives.
Why!? You need to state why!!! No one will support this unless you present an argument that doesn't sound like a conspiracy theory.
Right now you just sound like your economics teacher mentioned this once and you ran with it.
Apparently anything that involves great change that goes against traditional belief systems that people are used to sounds like conspiracy theory because I've been explaining myself all day here. I've emailed general assembly my document so I'll leave it at that now. Keep an open mind.
anonymous is a troll, pay no attention
I am? :o
Why am I a troll? And no, I don't think you are wrong, but you need to explain yourself so others can see it too. That is the point of this movement. To enlighten people.
I hope this reaches them and they understand. I'm doing all I can to help promote this fact.
What fact? This is an opinion! You must spread the fact! You must inform people of why you feel this way in a way that would convince them.
In general, capitalism won't work anymore nor will socialism, because these economic structures breed GREED. Greed is the root of all our socio-economic problems today, if there were no monetary currency and no notion of one having 'property' there would be no pursuit for profit for ones own self interest or personal gain, because everything would be public property, belonging to people collectively. This would not be a traditional economic system, mainly because it wouldnt involve currency at all. But in eliminating money, we would effectively eliminate any possibility of inequality, for money is the root of all evil, and can be named the cause of many of the worlds problems today. We need to look to science and the scientific community for our solution. We're destroying our planet, we need to save it and our society first before we can move forward into a new socio-economic paradigm(way of living essentially) where poverty, crime, famine, and scarcity do not exist.(Because these are effects of a society that depends on legal tender, money, to survive, not the basic necessities that we actually do NEED to survive ie: food, water, shelter, sleep) Money distorts and corrupts the natural way of living and it is finally time that people wake the fuck up and we get the fuck rid of The Federal Reserve and money once and for all. I'm going to keep stressing my points until everyone gets it. I will not let us destroy ourselves and this planet.
Lifestream, you are very sorely mistaken on many fronts! Look up your Bible...it does not say money is the root of all evil, it says 1 Timothy 6:10 "For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs." The love of money over the love of God and doing what's right by others. Money is neutral. It has no conscience. It is the heart of the person who has the money that can put it to use for good or bad things. No matter what you say, I know you like money. Everyone does. Everyone likes money when it benefits them. So, the source of our problems is not money, its those who have misused and swindled the American people. Those people, the collectivists, the globalists, and yes the socialists, the ones who want to take dollars from people and redistribute the wealth as they see fit, those are the evil doers. They make you believe they are for you when they are really against you. Heck I could give you example after example...consider this my intro paragraph.
"Everyone likes money when it benefits them" Exactly. Eliminate money and in the process we eliminate war, poverty, and famine, to name a few problems that plague the world today. Such are the ideals of a Resource Based Economy, instead of traditional monetary based economies such as Socialism or Capitalism neither of which a RBE supports.
What do you think will happen in a Resource Based Economy? There will be people in positions of power who will preside over the resources...they will become corrupted by power because power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely! Its the same dam thing as money...money is power...RESOURCES are power...you think by taking money out of the equation that things will get better but, they won't because people have an innate desire to get ahead...they want to be able to work harder than the next person and know that if they do so they'll be rewarded. Not everyone wants to live the same. Some people want 50 pairs of shoes in their closet, and others, like me, only care to have five. That is what drives the human spirit. You take that out of the equation and people will not be motivated to try harder. Have you been watching the Zeitgeist movies?
People won't be motivated by the same notions of reward that we see today plain and simple and I'm done arguing on these forums for now mainly because it's late and I'm tired but I'll be happy to oblige tomorrow I'll most likely be here again. But in concise terms, the only thing that drives the human spirit is our basic needs of survival, everything else is taught to us, and we inherit our predispositions(genes) from our ancestors that are passed down through our families and hence put us into a position to act a certain way or develop a certain disease of outside factors and environmental stimuli cause that gene to actually manifest itself in the form of said behavior or disease. genes in fact play very little part. We are all molded into the sorry rigid blocks of clay we are all today slaved to religion politics and money. None of it matters in the grand scheme of things, we've all been taught to embrace them however, you wouldn't want 5 shoes only if you didn't develop the notion somewhere in your life that you didn't like collecting shoes, or buying them like a woman may, etc. (You get the point.)
No I don't get the point because what you're saying works for you but, not for me. Maybe I agree with you but, other people might not agree with you. Maybe I prefer to drive an Audi instead of a Huyundai. And if I chose to work harder, to push myself, to discover new diseases, new cures, while some other jack off wants to sit around, drink beer, and look at porn all day than that is my right and that is his right but, in the end I know that my efforts will be rewarded with my family's future being more secure than his and with the type of car I prefer to have in my driveway and living in the type of home I desire and the location I desire. I don't want to work hard all day so someone else can kick back and live off of my efforts because our resources are evenly distributed. Sorry to break it to you but, that is human nature. In the end, like I said before, the system you're proposing, albeit with great intentions, is the same thing as communism. Its been tried, it doesn't work, and that is why the immigrants of the world still flock to America for over two centuries!
The jack off that sits around and drinks beer all day is a product of the society he was brought up in, he wasn't born drinking beer all day and watching porn. He was brought up in an environment that fostered that sort of attitude. Are you comprehending my points here? It is not in someones nature to be lazy, laziness(and drug addiction) is a result of people who are distraught with the amount of inequality that exists in the economic system that they are brought into. They are victims. Think. Outside. Your. Own. Beliefs.
Yes, and all of us are STILL trained to be like that. If you take away the US dollar, we will just use the Euro, or the BitCoin. WE LIKE MONEY because it is easier than trading chickens. Yes, it is also easier to collect and hold onto greedily, but that is why we are trying to reduce their powers.
If you try to switch to a resource based economy (which sounds great) people will still want porn, and 50 shoes. But they won't be able to get it because they have to make sure they are making a resource that the country will need. There will no longer be fun things like tv and video games.
Perhaps that is a good thing, but I can guarantee that this is not the outcome that most Americans want, and that is why this is not one of their demands.
I can also guarantee if that happened, there would be riots in the streets and then a dictator would take over to control the chaos.
Plus, I can tell you from personal experience, having worked in sales in the private sector and having worked in public safety in the govt. sector. The only thing that stops a motivated salesperson is some manager or company cutting their commissions or reducing their territory. Otherwise, the salesperson gets to decided how motivated they want to be that day but, at least, in the end, they have no one to blame but themselves. They can make a lot or a little...its all up to them.
Having worked in govt for many years, seeing the waste in the land of abundance, and the lack of motivation by those who go from being hungry hardworking temporary employees for 10 years to getting permanent or tenure status and slowly becoming apathetic and even lazy, I can tell you right now that a resource based system would never work. I've seen and continue to see govt bureaucrats dictate and decide on things, and make decisions about whats in the public's best interest without ever consulting with the public or outside experts, and getting paid massive amounts of money to do jobs that in the private world nobody would pay half the amount, all the while they milk the system for their own benefit, not having to show efficiency or a care for resources. That is what will happen in a resource based society except worse.
Trust me, I've seen plenty of lazy people and I can tell you firsthand they are not victims. If anything, they cannot blame anyone but themselves. There is so much opportunity out there. I'm all for helping others but, one cannot help others until they've secured their own position first.
You're not going to change society by telling people they must be productive. People choose freely what they want. There are plenty of examples of people who've had all the advantages of life but have chosen not to exercise them or their talents. Besides, its not for me to decide for others what to do with their day. That is not freedom. People that are, as you say, distraught about inequality are gonna be the same way they are now but worse in the society you propose because in that society there is no reason to get ahead and there is nothing to prevent you from falling...you simply are. And lets face it, no one grows up just wanting to simply be nothing. Like I said, your ideas are tempting but, in the end, everything requires effort, and the price of success demands a reward that is in fair proportion. Not only that but, the resources would be controlled by politiicans and bureaucrats who would have the "power" to dictate to us how we will live our lives. They will tell you what you can and cannot have. Have you seen the movie 1984? or read the book. Like I said, you have good ideas but, they don't stand up to reality.
Since I couldn't have said it better myself, here is a blog comment I found that says it perfectly:
David Stone says: March 28, 2011 at 4:25 pm “By and large they are the products of pure capitalism wherein the biggest companies exert undue influence in getting laws passed that serve themselves.”
Dear Victoria Baker, What you call capitalism is NOT true capitalism, it is corporatism, as evidenced by your subsequent statement: “corporations are given personhood”. This was done officially by FDR, a liberal socialist democrat. (And BTW, liberal socialist Marxism is by no means limited to the Democratic party.) True capitalism requires a free market, (which we do NOT have by any stretch of the imagination.) Corporatism is all about monopolies and special interest legislation, which is diametrically opposed to true capitalism. The fact is, only true capitalism would rescue this situation. You and many other people in the general population have bought into the lame-stream media propaganda that goes to great lengths to confuse the two by disseminating such disinformation and by continually calling corporatism capitalism. You’re also under the misguided notion that “the people” can actually change a law like this for the better. As long as corporatism rules, that will never happen, primarily because the state is also a corporation. So, every time some well-intentioned person or organization works to make or change a law to “improve” something or try to remedy some sort of inequity or injustice, the corporate lawyers get in there and make sure there are hidden clauses and requirements that effectively accomplish just the opposite and in fact make the situation even worse for the common citizen by strengthening the position of corporations, including the state. S510, the fake food safety bill, the Patriot Act, and Obamacare are prime examples of this. Get a clue and figure out how you’re going to survive the coordinated global efforts to depopulate the planet, because that’s what all this crap is about - bottom line.
What you're saying is unrealistic because nobody can barter and trade all day long. We have wars because the American people have been fooled over and over again because they're basically ignorant of history and are not active enough politically to keep the politicians in check. Instead of asking questions, we fall for things like 9-11 hook, line, and sinker. Govt's use false flag terror to get the masses to go along with their agendas.
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I'd have to agree, should be among the top priorities.
And I see people posting here actually believe(d) Fed was govt.
I agree, it should be a major priority. Also see LeoYo's posts and comments about public banks. Establishing those should be a priority also, to take power away from the TBTF's and insulate municipalities from their insidious machinations.
Yes, banking should be as far from the private sector as possible.
In Responsible Capitalism, it is among the forbidden industries.
Yep, remember when banks were there to serve the public? Remember the days before the news became 'entertainment' and actually reported the news? We've strayed far from the path, Kavatz. Time to get back on it.
When were the banks here to serve the public or what do you mean by serve the public? I've never known of any private banks at any time in history to have had the primary purpose of serving the public. Even credit unions only have the purpose of serving those who qualify to be members rather than the general public. The only kind of banks I've ever known of that can be said to be here to serve the public is of course public banks.
Depresses me though, the thought of getting back on any path we've been on already.
Ah, but the path still goes forward. We just strayed off it a while. But then, I guess you could say we strayed off of one path on our way to another. Yeah, I like that better.
Yes, on a new course we are!
How about we strayed off one path to make a new one of our own. I like THAT one better.
Now you're onto something PG. I like that one a lot better. Carlin once said "nobody ever starts a path." Well, I say we forge our own.
Was Carlin high or what? Maybe he never had a good pair of boots and a long sleeved shirt?
Well, it was during his early days, on one of his albums from the late '60's. Not his most enlightened work, and by the time I first hear it in the early '70's, I had, in fact, started a path or two of my own.
Good for you, dude! I was never a big fan of George's. Looking back, he helped mainstream bad language and bad manners and bad life choices. (I say "looking back" cuz at the time I found him offensive. ) Today I can ask, "so what good did he do our society? "
What good did he do? I dunno, but has any comedian really done much more than provide idle distractions?
Uh, lemme cogitate on that one and get back to ya since my eyes are like leaded whatevers. Good night :-) I've been up too late the last few nights watching the, yes...PERSEIDS
Good night.
You've stumped me. Thought sure there must a few philanthropic comedians of fame. All I can think of is BONO, and he's not very funny :-)
美国人民，你们是好样的！你们都是英雄！！！你们不是孤立的！13亿中国老百姓支持你们胡正义事业！！！我们全世界的无产者，联合起来！打到万恶的贪婪的资本主义制度！！！加油！！！！！
美国人民，你们是好样的！你们都是英雄！！！你们不是孤立的！13亿中国老百姓支持你们胡正义事业！！！我们全世界的无产者，联合起来！打到万恶的贪婪的资本主义制度！！！加油！！！！！
支持美国人民！美国人民是英雄的！全世界无产阶级联合起来！打到万恶资本主义制度！你们不是孤立的！13亿中国老百姓支持你们的正义呼声！！！！你们胡事业必定成功！！！加油！！！！！
支持美国人民！美国人民是英雄的！全世界无产阶级联合起来！打到万恶资本主义制度！你们不是孤立的！13亿中国老百姓支持你们的正义呼声！！！！你们胡事业必定成功！！！加油！！！！！
支持美国人民！美国人民是英雄的！全世界无产阶级联合起来！打到万恶资本主义制度！你们不是孤立的！13亿中国老百姓支持你们的正义呼声！！！！你们胡事业必定成功！！！加油！！！！！
支持美国人民！美国人民是英雄的！全世界无产阶级联合起来！打到万恶资本主义制度！你们不是孤立的！13亿中国老百姓支持你们的正义呼声！！！！你们胡事业必定成功！！！加油！！！！！