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Forum Post: el oh el...

Posted 5 years ago on Feb. 9, 2013, 5:16 p.m. EST by FifeAndDrum (8)
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The bill for the meal comes to $15 even.

I hand her a $50 bill. The register is broken (again).

The cashier has to pull out the Smartphone calc app to figure out how much to return.

Don't even respond to this thread if you're going to make excuses.



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[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 5 years ago

Recently on Faux News we learned that public education was all a liberal indoctrination scheme, even Algebra! This is simply the most recent assault on public education as progressive brainwashing The heart of the hard right counterattack has been the effort to destroy public education in favor of a "free market'/private model. One of the prongs in this offensive has been the whole high stakes testing scheme and the powerful corporate sector that has both serviced it and spent millions of dollars advocating for it. That's the topic of this posting.

I have gently chided by some that the last posting was a bit daunting in length. I would reply that the topic required it, but I get the point.

Here is the short story:

In 1995 Sandy Kress convinced Texas Legislators that the lagging achievements of minority students could be improved by a new "accountability regime using standardized testing.

When George went national , Kress got to push his plan as a panacea for pubic education on all the states. No Child Left Behind was born. From its inception it probably should have been called No Child Left Untested.

This grand experiment finally died in 2007, with only Sandy Kress left to mourn its demise . But he had little to gripe about, this law had made him a very rich man. . He became the chief lobbyist for Pearson Publishing which provided everything NCLB - from texts to tests to teacher and student prep materials over the life of the legislation.(By 2012 Pearson's annual North American gross income was $4,179,240,000,up form a mere $600 million or so in the early days.)

By 2007 the damage had been done:

Texas Backs Away From No Child Left Behind Law, Its Own Bush-Endorsed Creation

"NCLB's reauthorization in a timely manner has created an obsolete system that does not adequately reflect the accomplishments of the state's schools," the state's education chief Michael Williams wrote in an open letter Thursday. By the law's definition, in Texas 47.8 percent of schools -- and 27.6 percent of its school districts -- made "adequate yearly progress" this year.

The road to this disaster is the story of how blind faith that "market forces" and privatization are the cure for everything.

Education Inc. - How private companies are profiting from Texas public schools.

How private companies are profiting from Texas public schools.

But when the company-like many for-profits-wants to get its way in education policy, Pearson isn't shy about deploying high-powered lobbyists. Pearson pays six lobbyists to advocate for the company's legislative agenda at the Texas Capitol-often successfully. This legislative session [2006] , lawmakers cut an unprecedented $5 billion from public education, including funding for a variety of programs to help struggling students improve their performance on state tests. Despite the cuts, Pearson's funding streams remain largely intact. Bills that would have reduced the state's reliance on tests didn't pass. The Texas Senate refused to pass any bills that would have diminished the role of testing, a stance some Capitol sources attribute to Pearson's lobbying, while others give the credit to pressure from reform advocates.

Who's responsible may not matter. The interests of corporate lobbyists and reform advocates are often the same. It's difficult to separate the businessmen from the believers.

In a narrow sense, Pearson's lobbying efforts simply reflect a company protecting its profits. But in a wider view, Pearson is part of a larger education-reform effort that seeks to improve public education through free-market principles. Often that means non-traditional educational approaches like charter schools and online learning. The movement includes a lot of earnest folks, eager to improve public schools and do what's best for kids. But their efforts have earned a fortune for companies like Pearson. It's become difficult to determine where the educating ends and the profit-making begins.

Read the rest here

There are links that you can follow in the link above.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 5 years ago


The 3rd, 4th and 5th grade tests are almost doubling in length this year. Last year, students in these grades spent a total of 250 minutes, over 5 days, taking their ELA and math tests. That is 50 minutes a day, on average. This year, students will spend a total of 540 minutes over 6 days taking those tests. That is 90 minutes a day, on average. For some students with IEP’s, those times will be doubled, meaning that they will spend 3 hours each day, for 6 days, taking tests.[1]


One reason for the astonishing increase in the amount of time is that NCS Pearson, the for-profit company developing the tests, has embedded “field test questions” in the tests. They are not used to score students – they are being “tested out” to see if they can be used in future tests. In other words, your children are providing a free service for NCS Pearson, a company worth billions of dollars.

The Department of Education has not requested that parents consent to their children being used as research subjects for a for-profit corporation.


The Texas State Commissioner of Education, Robert Scott, called “the assessment and accountability regime” not only “a cottage industry but a military-industrial complex.” NCS Pearson, the company developing the tests, is being paid more than $32 million over 5 years, to develop just the Math and ELA exams for New York State. NCS Pearson made close to $800 million in 2011 from its North American Education division.[2]


The city is currently developing tests for all grades, K-8. In 2014, the plan is to give as many as NINE different standardized tests a year – 5 in English, 4 in math.


The Department’s policies make a focus on test-prep inevitable, since they place such a huge emphasis on the test scores: 85% of a school’s report card grade is based upon its test scores.[3]


In 2008, the Bloomberg administration began using a blunt cut score to determine admission to gifted and talented programs, instead of the previous standard, which included teacher recommendations and other measures of performance. Within a year, the number of students from the poorest districts in the city who were admitted dropped from 20.2% to 14.6%. In 2011, the number of black students admitted was 11%, an all time low.


Teacher Data Reports had a 35-53% margin of error. In other words, a teacher who received a score of 50 out of 100 (“effective”) might have actually been a 25 (ineffective) or 75 (highly effective). If your doctor told you his scale was off by 30 lbs (in either direction), would you follow his advice to go on a diet? Would you trust a doctor who used such a scale?


Texas was the first state to used high stakes testing on a massive scale, and served as the model for the national “No Child Left Behind Act”, which required all states to institute high stakes testing. Texas is now experiencing a major backlash against it across the state. The state education commissioner, Robert Scott, said the mentality that standardized testing is the “end-all, be-all” is a “perversion” of what a quality education should be. And more than 100 local Texas school boards have passed a resolution calling for an end to the overuse of standardized testing in the state.[4]


In its 2011 report to Congress, the National Academy of Sciences committee that Congress commissioned to review the nature and implications of America’s test-based accountability systems concluded, “There are little to no positive effects of these systems overall on student learning and educational progress, and there is widespread teaching to the test and gaming of the systems that reflects a wasteful use of resources and leads to inaccurate or inflated measures of performance.”[5]


The National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP) is a standardized test administered by the federal government to a random sampling of students from around the nation. Because the scores are completely confidential (it is illegal to identify a student who took the test) and because it does not report scores by school, but only by state and district, the NAEP scores are considered the “gold standard” of test scores. There is no incentive to cheat or prepare for the NAEP tests, because there are no direct consequences attached to performance on it. In other words, it is NOT a high stakes test, and so scores on it reflect the actual state of learning of those who took it, not whether they spent the last six weeks prepping for it.

[1] Source: New York State Education Department, Memorandum from Ken Slentz, Deputy Commissioner, NYSED, December 2011

[2] http://www.pearson.com/media/files/press-releases/2012/2011_Results_Press_Release_FULL.pdf, p.7

[3] Source: http://gothamschools.org/2010/09/29/city-to-release-progress-reports-with-new-formula-lower-grades/ and http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/01/nyregion/01grades.html?_r=1&ref=nyregion

[4]Source: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/post/in-texas-a-revolt-brews-against-standardized-testing/2012/03/15/gIQAI5N0VS_blog.html

[5] Source: http://www.statesman.com/opinion/insight/standardized-tests-with-high-stakes-are-bad-for-2230088.html


[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 5 years ago


Until 1995, there was almost no high stakes testing in New York State. To graduate from high school, students needed to pass “Regents Competency Tests” (RCTs), but they presented no difficulty for anyone who finished four years of high school.

Beginning in 1995, the Board of Regents changed the graduation policy, phasing in five Regents Exams as requirements for graduation. These exams were and are much harder than the RCTs; they are extremely content-intensive and effectively dictate curriculum for high school classes. As for elementary and middle school, before 2003, the only high stakes tests that kids took occurred in 4th grade (for placement into middle schools) and in 8th grade (for placement into high schools). There were no exams required for promotion to the next grade nor were schools “graded” based upon test scores until Mayor Bloomberg made those evaluations a component of his education policy in 2003.


Since 2003, students in grades 3-8 have taken exams in April – usually over the course of 6 days. Last year, the amount of total time for the tests jumped up dramatically. In 2011, third graders took 250 minutes of tests; in 2012, they sat for 540 minutes – 90 minutes a day for 6 days. For 3rd graders with IEPs granting double time accommodations, that became three hours a day for 6 days. In other words, some 8 year olds with IEPs were required to take an SAT a day for 6 days in April. These tests are “high stakes” in that several important decisions are made based upon them: for students, promotion to the next grade depends upon their scores; for teachers, whether or not they will be rehired depends upon the scores of their students; and for schools (read principals), 85% of the “grade” the school receives is determined by the scores of its students.


There is a great deal of mystery, uncertainty, and confusion about how much testing there will be in the future, but all indications suggest there will be more – much more. Starting this year (2012-13), the tests for grades 3-8 will be aligned with the new “Common Core” curriculum. The Partnership for Assessment of Readiness for College and Careers (PARCC), a group of states (and Washington, D.C) working together to develop the Common Core Curriculum and assessments for it, is planning to have assessments beginning in pre-school (yes, you read that right) and going through grade 12.

In addition to the end of year assessments (like what exists now – the April tests), PARCC calls for interim testing, as well. There are already plans in place to have interim testing in NYC schools by 2014 – five in English, 4 in Math – every year, starting in 3rd grade (and maybe earlier). In other words, there will be an exam a month, as well as end-of-year tests.

If it seems like test preparation is dominating the curriculum now, just wait.


In the past, all of the tests have been made public. Under the current contract with Pearson, the tests are to be kept absolutely secret, so that the public has no way to decide whether the questions on the tests are fair. We are left to rely on leaks, as during Pineapplegate, to see any of the questions.


[-] -1 points by FifeAndDrum (8) 5 years ago

So you're the girl who flunked everything constantly and now doesn't like tests. Got it.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 5 years ago

No, you worthless piece of scum sucking shit.

[-] 1 points by elf3 (4011) 5 years ago


[-] 2 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 5 years ago

So our country's educational system isn't working very well. Who's fault is that? Yours as well as mine, isn't it? No excuses please.

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 5 years ago

mostly the blame falls on everyone. the students don't care, the parents don't care, the teachers and administrators don't care, and the tax payer wants a tax cut.

[-] 1 points by PublicCurrency (1387) 5 years ago

It is better to light ONE candle than to curse the darkness!

[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 5 years ago

Good points, my opinion though is that our culture as a whole, including education, has been subverted by global elites.

[-] 2 points by PublicCurrency (1387) 5 years ago

I agree and their power is initiated by our monetary system.



[-] 3 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 5 years ago

Yes, but that power can be broken by the establishment of a national bank, which would provide... public currency.

[-] 2 points by PublicCurrency (1387) 5 years ago

YES and the IDEA is becoming known ! ! !

Are you in China?



Fractional Reserve banking should be limited to publicly owned institutions.

[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 5 years ago

Yes, I am in China, and thanks for the interesting links. There is, however, an economic downturn here, most notably in the past couple years. While the economic stimulus has been helpful, the development over the past decades has been too dependent on trade with collapsing western economies.

A solution to this would be reciprocal trade between China and the US, for example. There is much that China, and other developing economies, would like to obtain from the US in terms of high technology infrastructural goods.

The US could sell these to China to help balance its trade deficit. Such goods could be provided to all the developing countries on credit, provided by a US national bank. As the goods were installed in the developing economies, they would generate revenue, which could be used in part to pay off the US credit, creating millions of high paying US jobs.

It sad that the concept of a national bank has been so obscured in the US, when it has been so much a part of our national heritage:

"In sum, (Alexander) Hamilton argued that a national bank, tied intimately to the government's national debt, would help cement together the nation, and serve as the nursery for national wealth.

It is seldom understood how this concept differs from that of national banking in the countries of Europe, especially Great Britain's Bank of England, but the difference, as at least one prominent writer on Hamilton, Prof. Forrest McDonald,[2] understands, is profound. For, whereas the Bank of England—which has certain superficial similarities to what Hamilton proposed—functions to provide funds to (and control) the government, Hamilton's Bank of the United States was explicitly, and actually, devoted to providing capital for the industrial and agricultural growth of the nation, including by providing funds for the infrastructure development required for that growth.

Hamilton, like Leibniz and Colbert before him, understood the necessity for the nation to ensure investment in technological progress, for the sake of the welfare of its population, the real source of wealth. The Public Good was the aim of Public Credit."


[-] 1 points by Shule (2638) 5 years ago

Ever check out those kids over in Japan and China doing math on Sorobans? (google it) No wonder all our production is going overseas.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 5 years ago

I can count up 12 dice at a glance

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 5 years ago

Who the hell would make excuses for something that may or may not have happened or for someone that can't count back change?

[-] 0 points by nobnot (529) from Kapaa, HI 5 years ago

We beat the drum slowly and played the fife lowly.

[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 5 years ago

Our education system works fine

[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 5 years ago

Go to a search engine and type in "failing education system" and you'll see quite a few websites that express disagreement with that. Here's an example from the first site I found listed:

"While critics tend to rely on the three-decades long decline of the Scholastic Aptitude Test (SAT) to document the dumbing down of American education, more alarming is our performance against the students of other industrialized countries. By virtually every measure of achievement, American students lag far behind their counterparts in both Asia and Europe, especially in math and science. Moreover, the evidence suggests that they are falling farther and farther behind. As educational researcher Harold Stevenson notes, although "the U.S. is among the countries expending the highest proportion of their gross national product on education, our elementary school and secondary school students never place above the median in comparative studies of academic achievement."


I know this is a religious site, but it was just the first one listed in the search engine ranking.

To give one example, I teach English to kids here in China, and hear a lot about their school work. All kids here study something like six years of physics by the time they graduate from high school. When these kids go to America for a year as exchange students, their level of education in sciences is generally much higher that that of US kids.

This is important, because scientific advancement is what contributes most to economic development. The Chinese had fallen behind for quite some time, but their doing their best now to catch up and take the lead.

[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 5 years ago


People I know are educated

[-] 2 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 5 years ago

That's good for you. However, I think many people are not so fortunate.

[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 5 years ago

I feel politicians use the education scare to avoid other issues


to their own agenda to further control of education


perhaps to appear as if they care

[-] 2 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 5 years ago

Could be, politicians use a lot of issues, such as the gun issue, in that way.

There are a lot of people besides politicians though who are concerned about what they consider to be an educational crisis though.

[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 5 years ago

there is no education crisis

they only consider it a crisis because we want to blame society short comings on something

[-] 2 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 5 years ago

So you think its not a problem that US students have fallen behind European and Asian students in sciences? Not that the competition is important, just that we're not giving our future citizens the foundation that they need.

Do you think there is no economic crisis as well? For me, the two are related.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 5 years ago

we have the resources and ability to provide for the people

the rich just won't let them have money unless they dance

[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 5 years ago

Yes, I agree, accept about the dancing part, they wouldn't even give us money if we danced for it.

This is why we need a national bank, so that we can create our own money.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5184) 5 years ago

We do have a slow-motion train wreck going on in a part of our educational system. You may have been very fortunate to associate yourself with the better part.

We have very disjointed educational systems so part of it excels and part of it really sucks. The college/university educational system is mostly doing just fine with some part actually being the very best.

Our K-12 educational system varies widely from school district to district (correlating with socioeconomic status and ideological bent) but overall it is disgraceful, ironic, and embarrassing for what some have called the "richest country on Earth," "leader of the free world," and "superpower." Although I find these terms exaggerating, I still feel ill about "richest for what?" "leader of the factory-trained blind?" and "superpower of incompetence and burned and unburned natural gas."

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 5 years ago

I still $30,000 in student dent and I understand that is low

don't havr a job to pay it

[-] 1 points by grapes (5184) 5 years ago

I apologize that I had thought that our college/university educational system was mostly doing just fine. I had blinders on and was ONLY thinking of the quality of the education that one can get from them and forgetting about the high costs (unfortunately the government subsidies had been whittled down for decades already).

I suppose that the old adage about the fastest ways to riches may now have a broken leg: inheritance, marriage, and education. Inheritance is not easily controllable but do you know any sickly or elderly relative who may need help? It may sound crass but sickly or elderly relatives do often need help near their end-of-life (there are children of theirs who are far-flung in our highly mobile society who will experience hardship if they have to interrupt their own family lives to take care of someone else). Can you somehow "cash in" your education by marrying into money? Marriage may be possible but not easily if you do not have a job. Can you create a job for yourself using your education? Do you have any assets? Can you borrow against them with lower interest rates than your student debts? Maybe you can reduce your cost of living by moving in with someone, perhaps an elderly or sickly relative who needs care or a buddy.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 5 years ago

I will nor borrow

[-] 1 points by grapes (5184) 5 years ago

Not borrowing is a good idea if you want to play it safe and sure but it can be a long hard slog. There are many different types of debts and many rich people get rich on borrowed money. In the U.S. for every dollar of net equity in the asset owned, there are three dollars of debt in the asset owned. I hear people saying that the U.S. is the "richest country in the world." Well, maybe, the U.S. certainly controls a huge amount of assets but only one quarter of the value of the assets is really owned outright. Hence, the U.S. absolutely qualifies for being the most indebted country in the world.

Borrowing is the "American way of life" and it can align you with the interest of the powers that be -- over time, borrowed money will essentially become your money and far more, if you know how to manage the debts. Student debts are much worse now than before because they can no longer be discharged through bankruptcy. If you do not want to borrow, you can sell any assets outright. You need to keep in mind that bankers hate people who neither borrow nor pay back so they will try to make life hard. They like better the people who borrow and do not pay back once in a while. They truly love the people who borrow AND pay back and make these people's lives easy.

[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 5 years ago

I can count up 12 dice at a glance

[-] -2 points by Shayneh (-482) 5 years ago

People say that we need to dump more money into schools for the "good of the children". If the failure rate is because of "not enough money" then why are foreigners who go to our schools outperforming.

They have the same teachers don't they? Can anyone of you guess why?

Hint: Family Values.

[-] 1 points by elf3 (4011) 5 years ago

America has no family values left, we believe that people should work 6 jobs to make ends meet, we believe in artificially inflated commodities and markets where prices never come down even when paychecks never come up. We believe that productivity can never slow down, not for a holiday, not for illness, not for a school play, not for a parent teacher meeting, not even for maternity leave. We believe that keeping a roof over a child's head, and their belly full of food is the immediate function we must serve. We believe in sacrificing our own lives and hope replacing the lessons we could share with a group think provider will stand as a good enough replacement for all the little dreams and ideas we would want to instill but never will because we are at work trying to give them everything we never had for ourselves. Yes I wonder what did happen to family values I wonder why Americans must work so much for so little and still have no time left to be with family. Family Values have been replaced with Productivity and Over Priced Commodities so the one percent can spend all the time they ever need with their own children living in the lap of luxury while stealing us awy from our and ensuring that our children will be faced with even more struggle as the one percent fixes the market for themselves and their chikdren and their children's children.

[-] 1 points by vaprosvyeh (-400) 5 years ago

If you even believed for one second that what you just posted was true, then what the hell reason is there for you or anyone else here to attempt to do anything at all? It would be an insane waste of time to try to change the mentality of an entire country that all believes the same things.

You may choose to be as hysterical and incorrect as you want to be, but don't you dare claim to speak for me or anyone else when you do it. None of the things you claim that "we" believe represents anything even close to my beliefs or those of any of my friends, neighbors or family members. And we are all Americans.

Either you are mentally disturbed or you arrogant enough to believe that every single person in this country is living, experiencing the exact same things that you are and are just in denial or blind.

I got news for you sister, there are many, MANY people in this country who make ends meet, work one job (often with benefits), get time off for illnesses and maternity leave (often WITH pay) put a roof over their kids' heads, food in their stomachs, and play with them, teach them, do homework with them, vacation with them, and even spend time with them EVERY DAY. These same people often teach their children how to live within their means and save some and build a life not dependent on credit.

Now maybe, none of these alien Americans live near you, or you haven't traveled enough to meet any of them, but they do exist and all of them would find your rantings peculiar.

[-] 1 points by elf3 (4011) 5 years ago

You're right some people have it really really good and are so arrogant as to believe they are the norm and that they are representative of 99 percent of America ...when they in fact are a very very small percent. But if it's going good for you why should you worry... your fellow Americans aren't your problem they're just your neighbors and children's classmates, and the homeless guy in the gutter. You seem awfully angry for someone who is enjoying life so much...hmmm what are you doing here I wonder ranting at one of the lesser endowed, when you could be spending time your kids?

[-] 1 points by vaprosvyeh (-400) 5 years ago

I never said I have it really, really good. Stop attempting to put words in my mouth or pretend you know what I think or feel. It's the epitome of arrogance and arrogant people make me angry. Not much else does. And I'm not the one ranting about not spending time with my kids. You were. Yet here you are...

I've sacrificed some things for other things. It's called making choices. I have the free will to do that. We made purposeful choices on where we would live and work and raise our kids so that we could be the kind of family we wanted to be. That meant smaller city, more rural living, less fancy this or that because more play hours meant less work hours, and thus less pay. It means no designer brands or allowing our kids to demand or expect things that don't really matter in order to pay for and make time for the things that do matter.

You and I both get the same 24 hours in every day and the same 365 days in a year. You and I both decide every single day where and what we spend our time on.

[-] -2 points by Shayneh (-482) 5 years ago

I believe she lives in NYC - that's a big problem with those people - they live in their own little world.

If you look at where most of the crimes are, and where most of the "metropolitan girly boys" who handed their balls to their girlfriends or wifes live - they live in the big cities.

Nothing manly about them nor do they understand what it takes to be successful.

They love to complain because their liberties have been taken away from them and they think it should be the same for evryone else.

[-] 1 points by vaprosvyeh (-400) 5 years ago

I don't care where someone lives, it's easy to get the idea that the rest of the world is exactly like you are. It's not.

And big cities are just as much places where the women are single and raising kids alone as places where women have men by the balls. Nothing about either category of women or men is flattering. It doesn't take "manliness" to be successful. So I disagree with you there.

People give their liberties away all the time, sometimes on purpose, sometimes without realizing it. It's easy to be angry about it when you can pin the blame on someone else, it's a lot harder when you find out it's your own fault.

[-] -3 points by Shayneh (-482) 5 years ago

Never said anything about "women being single and raising kids" and I never said anything about "being manliness to be successful".

What I did say was a lot of the crime in this country are in big cities - Chicago, NYC, LA -

So what you stated - I did not so there is no reason for me to defend what you said.

[-] 0 points by vaprosvyeh (-400) 5 years ago

Never mind. My bad.

[-] -2 points by Shayneh (-482) 5 years ago

No problem - appreciate you not getting emotional like a lot do on this site. When that happens "rational thinking" goes out the door.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 5 years ago

Oh, little Wonder Bread sales rep..........you know damn well that you deliver nothing but provocative one liners designed for emotional chaos. The fatal mistake is that the Elf ID is a trolling ID which make this all rather staged.

But, it was momentarily entertaining for someone.

[-] 1 points by elf3 (4011) 5 years ago

Gf your perception is so narrow and out of whack that you've begun slamming members of you own protest group; a few of my opinions differ slightly from yours and blammo you've cast me down with the likes of these idiots- the wonder bread twins...like I said the horse shoe loops around and the extremists end up on the same end it's truly pissing me off I've spent a lot of freakin time on here expending energy I don't have because I'm a true believer in this movement...say what you will about me...I'll never go back to the matrix

ps mr vapors, thanks to this economy ...and lack of upward mobility; I don't have kids because I can't afford enough food for myself let alone a child, so I'm choosing to spend time what little spare time for something I believe in what's your exuse? Really like shoving peoples's faces in the dirt because they can't qualify for bank loans to go to college and the cost of monopolistic commodities and education is so high that one can not save and still make the over priced rent....? and you don't got to lie I know you're jealous of my husband's muscles and yes most secretaries aren't widely known to afford worlwide tours it's hard enough to pay for gas to commute to work narcissistic world class ass wipe ... yeah your travels have really widened your scope

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 5 years ago

Many of our opinions differ. You are Tea Party and I am not. When you begin to give a damn about people then we can talk. You should get around to one ID to do that in.

[-] 1 points by elf3 (4011) 5 years ago

I am occupy at what point did you hear me profess to be tea party? Whoo hoo whoo hoo go read other posts I've only ever used one log on also who has time for covert blogging missions I work ft...and why would I bother what purpose does that serve?

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 5 years ago

You have in prior threads. You're a known troll but, hey thanks for playin'

[-] 1 points by elf3 (4011) 5 years ago

Unless someone stole my log in I never said s much ...My husband and I are from different political poles and we meet in the middle at Occupy I am leftish he is rightish and we are both Occupy (convinced now you're a paid agendist)

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 5 years ago

Trollin trollin trollin And your ego's swollen Keep them untruths rolling ...

[-] 0 points by vaprosvyeh (-400) 5 years ago

It's not vapors. And it's not mr.

Millions and millions of poor people have children and manage to feed them just fine. And if you can't afford to feed yourself, you'd be dead. You certainly wouldn't have a computer and internet service. Have you always been an exaggerator who blames other people for everything in your life or is this a more recent behavior pattern?

Oh, and I didn't go to college, and neither did my husband. But in this economy, my daughter graduated this year after putting herself through college without bank loans, with zero financial help from us and paid her own rent, car payment, and traveled while doing it. Oh...and she worked two secretarial jobs the entire time. Probably because she lives out here in the magical land where little blue fairies poop money and birth rainbows.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 5 years ago

Gout then?

They have a pill for that now. Ask your doctor.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 5 years ago

Watching someone argue with themselves is so last year. Now, it's really fucking boring.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 5 years ago

You just can't find any quality trolls these days.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,LOL

[-] 2 points by elf3 (4011) 5 years ago

The funniest part of this to me is I'm vehemently fighting on behalf of occupy against opposers....if you don't see that our government is a three headed dragon with the corporate head in the lead and working people and citizenry at the tail then you just haven't woken up yet...left or right it's all fuck the working people (and you may be part of the Corporatist agenda)

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 5 years ago

I know, right? This must be the Craig's List reject.

[-] 1 points by elf3 (4011) 5 years ago

Yeah with food stamps I don't expect other people to feed my unborn children. Like you said we make choices and I choose not rely on corporate news...so I eat one meal a day so I can stay informed sad that all two internet "providers" charge such a huge chunk but you think that's just fine...did your daughter get financial aid then because there is no way in hell I could work two full time jobs during the day and afford rent and car and still have time to attend or afford a BA degree program most of which are during daytime hours and you don't get to pick the times....so unless I move to a land where I can freeze time ..I guess I could pop out a kid and qualify for some aid but I don't expect other people to pay for my school and unborn child. So your story isn't meshing, what are you leaving out? And yes people like you are directly responsible for this system being so shitty because you lick it up you lick up all that shit and grin back at us with your brown noses in the air like you're so awesome because you love the taste of servitude and a mediocre life and then hate people who don't want to kiss those shit covered hypocritical lips and sorry...we'll never get used to the taste. Because I believe in honesty above all else, it's perpetuated lies (or ommissions) that ruin our country. You'd be amazed at how many people I know who proclaim to be so independently smart and wealthy and who oppose this movement the most got where they are with goverment aid. In fact they hate me so much for being angry at having to work so hard so I can watch them get a head not by their own bootstraps but by mine...then they claim that they think it's all fine because they don't believe in subsidies so they're going to abuse them and aka steal from society as much as they can. I believe subsidies and tax breaks should be for the elderly and destitute not for some middle aged middle income mama who wants to go back to school after she's bored of rennovating her kitchen and knows it's easier to take advantage of the system than to try to change it or for my employers so they can turn around and say they can't affird to pay me more even while they drive up my taxes with all their write offs and government hand outs

[-] 1 points by vaprosvyeh (-400) 5 years ago

Read woman. Before you vent.

I didn't say my daughter worked two "full time" jobs while she went to school so your entire rant about freezing time was useless. Both of her employers were flexible with her while she attended school. She also had a scholarship that paid for her tuition and books. One of her employers would have reimbursed her for any courses she took that applied to her job with them if she had needed it.

I don't know where you live, but I have all kinds of options for internet service where I live. We use a local ISP and it costs us $40 a month.

I don't get subsidies, nor would I qualify for any. But I'm certainly not rich either. I also pay whatever taxes I owe, but I'm sure not going to pay more than I owe. Do you?

You sure like to pretend to know a lot about people you've never met. And you like to pretend that there are only two kinds of people out here, those who agree with you who are poor and sad and bitter and oppressed, and those who disagree with you who are rich and happy and oppressed but oblivious. All the people you know hon, are not all the people there is to know. It's you who is perpetuating lies.

But if it makes you feel better to believe that you are completely powerless to change your life and that it's all someone else's fault, I suspect you'll continue to do so.


[-] 1 points by elf3 (4011) 5 years ago

Same goes for you please see above post. I am so astounded at the fact you just told me that my man is not keeping me in check by " allowing "me my own opinions that is truly fucked up...yes men that give their woman a leash are gay that's a sane opinion and one for the grim days before sufferage. My working class and sensitive husband has labored more in a week than any man on WS has in a lifetime and has the hot body to show for it. Neither he nor I defines success by our wallets we define it by having time to spend with family and by being able to give to others. We define it by not allowing Wall Street power to control our success or that of our fellow Americans. Also progress has spread intelligent opinionated and outspoken women are no longer restricted to the confines of the big city.

[-] -1 points by vaprosvyeh (-400) 5 years ago

Does your anger keep you from reading comprehension?

Unless your "man" is a metropolitan girly boy" who handed his balls to you and lets you do all the talking and deciding and choosing, then she wasn't referring to you was she? She didn't say men who give their woman "a leash"-you did. YOU are the one using dog/pet references here. And then you had to throw in a reference to his "hot body" as if muscles or fitness defines manliness. Do you even stop and listen to yourself?

Wall Street doesn't control you or your success unless you cater to Wall Street. Intelligent, opinionated, and outspoken men AND women who don't like the lives they are "forced" to live due to the confines/monopolies of the big city get the hell out of it and find a place where they can succeed while helping those around them succeed too.

[-] 1 points by elf3 (4011) 5 years ago

Bwhaaa hhaaa hhaaa he he ....do you have a special compass that leads you to a world where WS doesn't rule the land or market and little blue elves and fairies alchemize fortunes from their feces, grow opportunities on trees they grew themselves out of their asses, and conjure raibows that lead to pots of gold without any rain but merely with the power of positive thinking, ..is that magical Smurf Village a place only you can see by chance or can I go there too if I just work harder?

[-] 0 points by vaprosvyeh (-400) 5 years ago

What a disturbed, bitter, angry, irrational little person you are. Good luck getting people to "unite' with you on anything.

I suspect that even if there was such a place, you'd never get to see it because your own pride wouldn't let you journey that far outside of your self pity and fear based cocoon. You keep telling yourself that WS controls everyone and everything if it makes you feel better. I'll be out here having a completely different life experience.

[-] 1 points by elf3 (4011) 5 years ago

It's called opening to the truth if you actually understood the philosophy you hint at you'd stop living such a self involved existence and living in blissful ignorance... Enjoy your write offs I'm sure a lot of us work hard to pay for your very different experience.

[-] 0 points by vaprosvyeh (-400) 5 years ago

You aren't open to any truth except the one you've created for yourself. You have no idea whether I live a self involved existence or not. You have no idea if I'm blissfully ignorant or not. You don't bother to ask any questions or learn anything-you just assume you know everything about everyone and stomp about like a child in your blissful arrogance.

If you're as broke as you claim to be hon, then I can promise you that this household pays MORE for your sad, bitter experience than you pay towards mine.

[-] 2 points by elf3 (4011) 5 years ago

I'm done stooping not very fun to me: this is why I'm really here below links....I won't lie i'd like my own enjoyment on the planet (is part of it) but I see a world out here that you and people like you choose not to see I can't choose to ignore suffering for my own happy "experience" leaving out the rest of the planet and pretending they're just whiners

every person is affected by every other person we're always part of and contributing to someone else's experience whether we realize it or not...like our interaction here, none of us exists in a vacuum...and people do have the ability to control or effect someone else's life so which way will you do it? Up or down ?



[-] -3 points by Shayneh (-482) 5 years ago

Thanks for the "back-up". Much appreciated

[-] -2 points by Shayneh (-482) 5 years ago

I never said that "your man is not keeping you in "check" by allowing me my own opinions - you did.

I never commented about your man either.

So how about settling down and stop letting your emotions take over your rational thoughts.

Studies have shown that

1 More women are enrolled in college today then men.

2.Men would rather be at home playing video games then out working but instead would rather have their women work -

3 Todays "younger working woman" wants more control over their relationships when it comes to decisions involving their male counterpart.

[-] 0 points by FifeAndDrum (8) 5 years ago

Yep. There's been a helluva growth in the administrative arm of public schools. Most schools have a 1:1 parity on administrators (paper pushers) to teachers and schools have become a jobs program. Time to cut out the admin staff.

[-] 0 points by auargent (-600) 5 years ago

the teachers union will never allow that.

[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 5 years ago

With the highly profitable, yet cheaply built cash register constantly breaking down, perhaps the use of the cell phone is to produce the numbers necessary to balance the register after the place closes. Or maybe she was going to give the number for a proper tip, you never mentioned it, cheap skate.

[-] 1 points by FifeAndDrum (8) 5 years ago

You should try earth sometime.

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 5 years ago

Just because you like to eat dirt and think that means you don't have to leave a tip?

No thanks.

I cook my own food.

[-] 0 points by FifeAndDrum (8) 5 years ago

I always tip well. Better than you could ever hope to.

Bottom line: She couldn't subtract 15 from 50 and come up with an answer.

Now shutcher piehole.

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 5 years ago

I offered a perfectly plausible explanation and you return with insults?

The app she was using would provide the numbers needed to balance out the register at the end of her shift, or perhaps at closing time.

Do you really expect her to remember the total on every bill she to deal with?

You never addressed to cheap shit register either.

Now, open yer piehole and start 'splainin'.

[-] 1 points by FifeAndDrum (8) 5 years ago

I expect her to be able to subtract 15 from 50 and come up with an answer.

It's starting to sound like you couldn't do it either. Maybe that's why you're on this site all day?

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 5 years ago

I hope her app tells you you get $5 back, it's all you deserve, and you know you can't argue with an app.

[-] -2 points by auargent (-600) 5 years ago

the product of union teachers

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 5 years ago

Or the religious right wing.

[-] -2 points by auargent (-600) 5 years ago

no , dumbo. the teachers union which does its best to gradute functional illiterates.


[-] 0 points by FifeAndDrum (8) 5 years ago

Wake the hell up, you f'n drone.


[-] -1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 5 years ago

Sounds more in line with a butchered home schooling job, our little right wing Wonder Bread nutter.