Forum Post: Either get it, ... do it right.... or you won't...get it.
Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 18, 2011, 6:16 p.m. EST by Old1
(47)
from Las Cruces, NM
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
the Wall Street Exec (see post: “ Say something! Advice from a Wall Street executive...”) is right and he’s trying to help and you all don't get it. i just saw an MSNBC interview with two supposed OWS leaders and all they could say, in essence, was "we want shangri la for all"; duh ain't gonna happen. HOW? the Constitution gives us the right to pursue it; no more. well get real. yes there's a system in place; use it. do you think the Civil Right's Act of 1964 got passed without a focus? without using the system? without accepting what is .? get behind a clear cogent initiative that current politicians (yes politicians) won't be afraid to support, but will be afraid to ignore. most of the nonsense posted here is ear candy, gee don't i sound like a profound philosopher stuff. believe or not people in the system want to help; there are actually people who know more than you. when the shooting stats and the blood flows how many will stick it out like in Egypt, Libya, Syria etc. seems like you have a pretty low pain threshold; you're just whining and expect those in power to take you seriously. Let’s here what your manifesto is not silly "Demands". what steps are being taken to solidify a broad, diverse leadership including those have lived in the "system'. I don't hear anything. SAY SOMETHING!
Really? So we should state what we want publicly and officially, why?? So that the 1% could crush this movement before it has the power to accomplish what is necessary?
So long as the 1% are confused, then they can't fight back. The longer there is confusion, the more time we have to gain support.
Find your truth and fight for it. Inform people, tell people. The 99% have each other. It's up to us.
there's nothing to fight back against. doubt that keeping the Declaration of Independence secret would have been clever.
Which was part of a bloody revolution.
i don't think that was the rebels idea but it happens when you want to take somethig away from the powerful (or that's what they perceive) yes it was bloody; sadly the ones we deem just, often are.
This sounds like more BS intended to shut down the movement.
any good argument enlists the test of a devils advocate. you only verify my point that y'all don't recognize help and frank criticism when you see it. if you can't get what people are doing to help you won't get anything done. i'm with you but in my opinion there is no strategy or tactic.
My strategy is to inform as many people as possible of the relationship between distribution of wealth and economic stability. If anyone wants to break my will, they will have to break my neck first.
nice, what's the fix??
Tax policies similar to what we had 35 years ago. In the meantime, we need to support the little guy as much as possible and the big guy as little as possible. I know this is tricky but it can be done.
you're right - can be done - more smarts and level headedness than raw emotion = progress (doesn't mean we don't have passion).
I was there for the Civil Rights Movement and the End the Vietnam War Movement. The fire hoses, riot batons and Kent State. Keep the peace first of all. Then, for those too young to remember, those movements started with a few students, busriders and protestors. Then it grew, filling its ranks with professors, engineers, doctors, millworkers, etc. In the end the U.S. Government changed its policies. Stay safe, keep the faith and remember that we all have the Right to Freedom of Speech. As Bob Dylan once sang, when I was a teenager, "The times they are a changin'".
While we appreciate WSE's viewpoint, it is drawn from WSE's professional experience, and we have to ask why one should listen to the people who so damaged the world.
951 cities in 27 days? Please. We are doing ok.
The point of this protest is that your way of thinking is simply wrong. You would destroy the world for a 32nd. You know nothing about value. Read this:
"Too much and too long, we seem to have surrendered community excellence and community values in the mere accumulation of material things. Our gross national product ... if we should judge America by that - counts air pollution and cigarette advertising, and ambulances to clear our highways of carnage. It counts special locks for our doors and the jails for those who break them. It counts the destruction of our redwoods and the loss of our natural wonder in chaotic sprawl. It counts napalm and the cost of a nuclear warhead, and armored cars for police who fight riots in our streets. It counts Whitman's rifle and Speck's knife, and the television programs which glorify violence in order to sell toys to our children.
Yet the gross national product does not allow for the health of our children, the quality of their education, or the joy of their play. It does not include the beauty of our poetry or the strength of our marriages; the intelligence of our public debate or the integrity of our public officials. It measures neither our wit nor our courage; neither our wisdom nor our learning; neither our compassion nor our devotion to our country; it measures everything, in short, except that which makes life worthwhile. And it tells us everything about America except why we are proud that we are Americans." RFK.
Need more? Look at this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acLW1vFO-2Q&feature=related or this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CjrZNi49bE&feature=related
Still, we appreciate your comments.
Join us.
Agreed, so start the war against Injustice by starting our own banks to double the income of the Bottom 99% of Workers, for many more people will come to your side when you are proactive (for “new” Business & Government solutions), instead of reactive (against “old” Business & Government solutions), which is why what we most immediately need is a comprehensive “new” strategy that implements all our various socioeconomic demands at the same time, regardless of party, and although I'm all in favor of taking down today's ineffective and inefficient Top 1% Management System of Business & Government, there's only one way to do it – by fighting bankers as bankers ourselves, and thus doubling our income from Bank Profits which are 40% of all Corporate Profits; that is, using a Focused Direct Democracy organized according to our current Occupations & Generations. Consequently, I have posted a 1-page Summary of the Strategically Weighted Policies, Organizational Operating Structures, and Tactical Investment Procedures necessary to do this at:
http://getsatisfaction.com/americanselect/topics/on_strategically_weighted_policies_organizational_operating_structures_tactical_investment_procedures-448eo
Join http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/StrategicInternationalSystems/ because we need 100,000 “support clicks” at AmericansElect.org in support of the above bank-focused platform.
Most importantly, remember, as cited in the first link, that as Bank Owner-Voters in your 1 of 48 "new" Business Investment Groups (or "new" Congressional Committees) you become the "new" Online Congress, and related “new” Businesses, REPLACING the "old" Congress, and related “old” Businesses, according to your current Occupations & Generations, called a Focused Direct Democracy.
Therefore, any Candidate (or Leader) therein, regardless of party, is a straw man, a puppet, a political opportunist, just like today; what's important is the STRATEGY – the sequence of steps – that the people organize themselves under in Military Internet Formation of their Individual Purchasing Power & Group Investment Power. In this, sequence is key, and if the correct mathematical sequence is followed then it results in doubling the income of the Bottom 99% of Workers from today's Bank Profits, which are 40% of all Corporate Profits.
Why? Because there are Natural Social Laws – in mathematical sequence – that are just like Natural Physical Laws, such as the Law of Gravity. You must follow those Natural Social Laws or the result will be Injustice, War, etc.
The FIRST step in Natural Social Law is to CONTROL the Banks as Bank Owner-Voters. If you do not, you will inevitably be UNJUSTLY EXPLOITED by the Top 1% Management System of Business & Government who have a Legitimate Profit Motive, just like you, to do so.
Consequently, you have no choice but to become Candidates (or Leaders) yourselves as Bank Owner-Voters according to your current Occupations & Generations.
So JOIN the 2nd link, and spread the word, so we can make 100,000 support clicks at AmericansElect.org when called for, at exactly the right time, by an e-mail from that group, in support of the above the bank-focused platform. If so, then you will see and feel how your goals can be accomplished within the above strategy as a “new” Candidate (or Leader) of your current Occupation & Generation.
i think we're generally in step and i will check the link you provided. an important aspect of the "bank problem" is the whole wall street/Fed alliance; i think they are one in the same an control the country. dealing with such a beast will require smarts and the ability to make certain individuals currently in power, believe it benefits them as well as "bringing out" many who feel the same but are viewed as paranoid.
Agreed, for the today's Government is run by the Banks -- the true Government -- in that all economic activity revolves around the banks, which is why we need to start our own banks if we are serious about creating liberty and justice for all.
How about just one demand: Ban all corporate donations to the government.
Keep it simple to get a consensus of the 99% general public.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/our-1st-demand-needs-to-be/
good idea. good ideas should be getting collected, discussed, prioritized. i just posted a question asking if ideas here were being codified; be nice a step in the right
I would wish the moderator can pin some of the good posts up.
Right now there are too many trolls and random rant that made the forum redundant.
be nice to have searchable topics.
Anyone purporting to lead OWS probably doesn't know anything about. Mcc point about education is valid, most of the public aren't informed or aware. Occupying IS a tactic to accomplish that. Here's what I and many others here say: Amend the Constitution to end corporate person-hood and create public financing for elections.
ok. what's the tactic? keep walking.?not sure congress will hear that; they're already deaf. present your (OWS) initiative and hammer away. i agree about purported leaders but you need leadership. a rudderless sip goes aground. P.S. congress is there; they have they pen; use their fears.
Leaderless in not equal to leadership less. That was my initiative: Amend the Constitution to end corporate person-hood and create public-only financing for elections. I'm sure Congress will listen when it becomes a deafening roar. Which it will, since no half-way informed person does not realize the toxic nature of concentrated wealth and our politicians. So how do we create fully informed people through all this fog? Occupy and do not go away.
excellent - but who is pulling the initiatives together to put power and momentum behind them (it). leaderless is okay for a while and i understand; just be cautious that no leadership doesn't evolve into many leaders with divergent ideas. not easy and your points regarding leadership have validity.
Honestly my personal preference is that no one does at this point. There is a lot more educating to be done before that can happen in a way that benefits the movement. The public outside have to be made aware of the issues, people inside have to crystallize their commitments, learn effective processes and know how to do things from both a social and technological perspective, then Hopefully the GA's. I've heard that executive committees are forming.
sure that sounds very good. to be honest that's the first time i've heard it laid out clearly, i admit though i haven't been on this forum but a few days. be nice if were a way to search topics or at least know ideas/initiatives in some way. if i'm missing something i'd appreciate if you let me know thanks
People who are deeply involved with the movement aren't here in this forum. They are on the streets, learning, educating, finding each other, discussing solutions but that isn't what happens here. A vast group of people attempting to discredit OWS make most of that impractical on this site. Just a few of us actual sympathizers sticking around to try and counter them when people like you show up. Better discussion can be found at www.occupyr.com (leaning right in my opinion) and www.themultitude.com (leaning left) What is missing here are the moderators, this forum is being completely (foolishly?) neglected. I don't know much about occupyr but I know the trolls are being banned outside of appropriate threads at multitude. And they both have the features you want. Hopefully this problem will get resolved and we can regroup here.
i was there, i'm white, saw people get the shit beat out of them Dr. king had a focus. he died. he won.
Funny you should mention the Civil Right's Act of 1964 -- your post reminds me of the speeches of Dr. Martin Luther King.
btw, thanks for the compliment.
We have been mislead by Reagan, Bush Sr, Clinton, Bush Jr, Obama, and nearly every other public figure. Economic growth, job creation, and actual prosperity are not necessarily a package deal. In fact, the first two are horribly misunderstood. Economic growth/loss (GDP) is little more than a measure of wealth changing hands. A transfer of currency from one party to another. The rate at which it is traded. This was up until mid ’07′ however, has never been a measure of actual prosperity. Neither has job creation. The phrase itself has been thrown around so often, and in such a generic politicali manner, that it has come to mean nothing. Of course, we need to have certain things done for the benefit of society as a whole. We need farmers, builders, manufacturers, transporters, teachers, cops, firefighters, soldiers, mechanics, sanitation workers, doctors, managers, and visionaries. Their work is vital. I’ll even go out on a limb and say that we need politicians, attorneys, bankers, investors, and entertainers. In order to keep them productive, we must provide reasonable incentives. We need to compensate each by a fair measure for their actual contributions to society. We need to provide a reasonable scale of income opportunity for every independent adult, every provider, and share responsibility for those who have a legitimate need for aid. In order to achieve and sustain this, we must also address the cost of living and the distribution of wealth. Here, we have failed miserably. The majority have already lost their home equity, their financial security, and their relative buying power. The middle class have actually lost much of their ability to make ends meet, re-pay loans, pay taxes, and support their own economy. The lower class have gone nearly bankrupt. In all, its a multi-trillion dollar loss taken over about 30 years. Millions are under the impression that we need to create more jobs simply to provide more opportunity. as if that would solve the problem. It won’t. Not by a longshot. Jobs don’t necessarily create wealth. In fact, they almost never do. For the mostpart, they only transfer wealth from one party to another. A gain here. A loss there. Appreciation in one community. Depreciation in another. In order to create net wealth, you must harvest a new resource or make more efficient use of one. Either way you must have a reliable and ethical system in place to distribute that newly created wealth in order to benefit society as a whole and prevent a lagging downside. The ‘free market’ just doesn’t cut it. Its a farce. Many of the jobs created are nothing but filler. The promises empty. Sure, unemployment reached an all-time low under Bush. GDP reached an all-time high. But those are both shallow and misleading indicators. In order to gauge actual prosperity, you must consider the economy in human terms. As of ’08′ the average American was working more hours than the previous generation with far less equity to show for it. Consumer debt, forclosure, and bankruptcy were also at all-time highs. As of ’08′, every major American city was riddled with depressed communities, neglected neighborhoods, failing infrastructures, lost revenue, and gang activity. All of this has coincided with massive economic growth and job creation. Meanwhile, the rich have been getting richer and richer and richer even after taxes. Our nation’s wealth has been concentrated. Again, this represents a multi-trillion dollar loss taken by the majority. Its an absolute deal breaker. Bottom line: With or without economic growth or job creation, you must have a system in place to prevent too much wealth from being concentrated at the top. Unfortunately, we don’t. Our economy has become nothing but a giant game of Monopoly. The richest one percent already own nearly 1/2 of all United States wealth. More than double their share before Reagan took office. Still, they want more. They absolutely will not stop. Now, our society as a whole is in serious jeapordy. Greed kills.
suc·cinct (sk-sngkt) adj.
This movement to date is a lot of rambling preaching. Get it together or go home.
Learn to read or go home.
If you come here to get all us down and get all up tryin to make us stop protesting about all the bad greed politics rich people and the wall street all that then hey about you might never get us to shut up if you can't do better than that you did with the dictionary post and because I don't get up and care about what you think about how I write because I am here for the more important reason of making people know about all that bad greed and politics and greedy rich people wall street and stuff so if you wanted to shut get me to shut up you might have to do and come up with a better trick cause I don't imtimidibated by but holes.
Translation: If you were hoping to intimidate me with such a lame psychological trick. That is, the old 'make him feel uneducated, unintelligent, or otherwise insignificant and he'll go away' bit, you might want to pick up a copy of 'Psychology for Dummies'. I believe it's sold on the free market.
Now, get out of my face. I have work to do.
wow, what's with all the hate? Look at the initial post I was responding to- it just keeps on going. Just suggesting that you keep your message simple. And no, it's not a psychological trick or intimidation. No need to be hostile.